[Xmca-l] Re: Time for a Generational Change

[White, Phillip]

Larry, you reiterated Mike's pointing out two concerns;


As we talk about generational transformation i hear legacy. I hear your question of gender imbalance and the mere chaining as the questions for our time.


and you discussed them as two separate issues - "gender imbalance", and "chaining", and then you illuminated chaining as -


Xenophan tells us (Memorabilia IV, 5,12) that Socrates connected dialectic with dialegein in the active voice; he said that the dialektikos or dialectician is the man who can sort good from bad and that dialectic is the practice of sorting things into their kinds by taking counsel with each other. The theory which Xenophan imputes to Socrates would be roughly along these lines. To dialegesthai is to engage in the sort of conversation that is courteous, serious, and concerned with the truth. When men are thus seriously conversing, each trying to learn from the other, they are sorting things out for themselves; and roughly the only way in which a man can sort things for himself is to expose his ideas in this way to another’s criticism.

first, I'm surprised that you didn't note sic, in the quote, "When men (sic) are thus seriously conversing ...". but, second, I'd like to point out that this genre of mansplaining is most often hierarchically structured, so that male dominance is maintained.  if you look back at the great majority of chaining in xmca, you'll see that it is dominated by two or three males voices. and rather than, as you explain, and roughly the only way in which a man can sort things for himself is to expose his ideas in this way to another’s criticism., i suggest that it is a culturally male privileged genre, as Foucault would put it, of maintaining power, privilege and prerogative.


if the majority of the male participants of xmca are actively concerned along with Mike regarding the gender imbalance in participation, then i think that there needs to be a recognition that the current chaining practice is not separate, but part of the ecology of gender imbalance.


phillip

________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 10:28:51 AM
To: Jay Lemke; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Time for a Generational Change

Mike,
My testament to the profund*ity of what you have meant to my journey or quest through living the questions.

As we talk about generational transformation i hear legacy. I hear your question of gender imbalance and the mere chaining as the questions for our time.
The question of gender brings up Franklin’s classroom where the girls know we can invite one boy to play. Possibly two boys who are carefully chosen and compatible. However, the girls know that when 3 boys come to play they form a *clique* of superheros.
Seems a relevant place to start our exploration of why the gender imbalance.

The 2nd question of chaining.
You invited Greg to turn back to the historical genesis of the founding and development of our community.

Today i will move further back and play with word meaning as a way to express my testament and gratitude.
I will turn back to Xenophan and the word *dialegein*.
I googled this word to find its meaning and heard a way of expressing my personal gratitude to you and also honouring your legacy in the back and forth.

Here is what caught my ear.

Xenophan tells us (Memorabilia IV, 5,12) that Socrates connected dialectic with dialegein in the active voice; he said that the dialektikos or dialectician is the man who can sort good from bad and that dialectic is the practice of sorting things into their kinds by taking counsel with each other. The theory which Xenophan imputes to Socrates would be roughly along these lines. To dialegesthai is to engage in the sort of conversation that is courteous, serious, and concerned with the truth. When men are thus seriously conversing, each trying to learn from the other, they are sorting things out for themselves; and roughly the only way in which a man can sort things for himself is to expose his ideas in this way to another’s criticism. Thus the colloquial meaning of dialegesthai; namely *to converse as one should* can be seen to be equivalent to the meaning which etymology might lead us to put upon the *middle voice of dialegein*, namely to sort for oneself.

Mike, as i read this word meaning i was turned to the testimony’s now being expressed as we reflect on generational transformation AND ongoing legacy AND the living questions you posed.

I want to honour your *middle voice* as my contribution to the intertwining.
My identity would be other than it is without your voice of conscience and conscientiousness that nurtures us in sorting out ways of well-being-in-the-world-with-each-other.
In short nurturing and cultivating *well-being*.
Thank you

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Jay Lemke
Sent: October 25, 2016 4:45 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Time for a Generational Change

Just a note to say how moving and beautiful these notes of appreciation for
Mike's commitment to the community (in many senses) have been. Speaking as
one of the old-timers, I think all of us echo every word of the most
beautiful of them, which speak for all of us.

To the younger generation who wonder how we managed in decades past to talk
with each other and not past each other, despite a very great diversity of
intellectual and cultural backgrounds, I can only say that we were eager to
hear different views, other ideas. We were not looking to build a grand
unified consensus. Each of us had our theory-building projects (or many of
us did) and our research experiences, and what we wanted was to hear what
others were thinking.

The history of this community has not been like that of specialist
scientific communities that seek to build on each other's work. It has
rather been a true multi-disciplinary community where the greatest gifts we
have given each other have been ideas we had never thought of, or
viewpoints leading to conclusions similar to our own, but starting from
entirely different premises.

Many of us joined to hear more about the CHAT/Vygotskyan approach. But we
stayed because we also heard so much more. And for me the greatest of
Mike's contributions was that he made everyone feel welcome, helping to
make sure that all these different voices could be heard. To the lasting
benefit of us all.

JAY.



Jay Lemke
Professor Emeritus
City University of New York
www.jaylemke.com<http://www.jaylemke.com>


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:00 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:

> Esteemed Mike,
> I add my little voice to the accolades and appreciation expressed by the
> other members of the XMCA chatline. Thank you so much for nourishing the
> dialog, which I have found to be so thought-provoking. It has often
> challenged my simplistic notions of what Vygotsky and many others bring to
> bear in taking on this complex and complicated world.
> With great respect
> Henry
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Wendy Maples <wendy.maples@outlook.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mike,
> >
> > As a frequent lurker, I am very grateful for the chance to see and think
> about some terrifically interesting topics explored by some terrifically
> interesting people. Thank you for making it happen, and keeping it going.
> >
> > With gratitude and very best wishes,
> >
> > Wendy
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> > Sent: 25 October 2016 04:41
> > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Time for a Generational Change
> >
> > Mike, all,
> >
> > thanks for your beautiful e-mail, Mike. It has only been a couple of
> years, but I have witnessed how much effort and dedication you have
> invested and continue investing in creating and sustaining a community like
> xmca. For a youngster fellow like me, coming for the first time to write in
> a forum where you know some of the most influential authors in the chat
> literature are there, either actively participating or just lurking from
> time to time, really freezes you before the keyboard. That's what I first
> felt until, the first e-mail went out. Since then, I have always felt
> welcome to write more, and every time have been place in a place from which
> I could think better and more. And so rather than frozen and stiff, my
> hands, and with them my thinking, have become a little more flexible, and a
> little more confident too. Thanks xmca for that, for giving me(us) the
> trust to contribute, and in so doing giving me(us) the opportunity to
> become part of a thinking that could have never been just my own. In the
> little time I have spent here, and as anyone can hear in the the words of
> those who have been here for much longer, it has become clear how important
> your role, Mike, and that of the community of xmca'ers that so much respect
> you, has been in precisely that: giving us trust to speak, which in a very
> important sense is giving us freedom.
> >
> > Thanks also for having me in, and for the welcoming words of the others.
> For a newbie that came in touch with xmca just a couple of years ago, it
> feels pretty scary to be presented as taking some "pastoral" role, but of
> course every one here knows that there is nothing like a flock to be
> pastored (perhaps a herd of cats, as Jay suggested, is best). Mike has
> presented me as taking the role as "mediator," and that is a convenient
> term we came up with together. Yet, I should quote here F. T. Mikhailov
> (thanks Michael for introducing me to this!), for whom it was clear that
> "the soul knows no mediators." Just in the same sense, I do not think I
> will mediate much, if mediating is heard to mean standing between xmca and
> anyone else (its members). If anything, I will only be able to partake in
> xmca as a member who, as many others already do, cares for and learns from
> the whole she forms part of. I am very excited about continue growing with
> xmca, and I hope I will be able to help in moving forward in the very
> honourable tasks that Mike has invited us taking. It seems to me that xmca
> has through the years grown into all what is needed to continue growing.
> Thanks,
> >
> > Alfredo
> > ________________________________________
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Chuck Bazerman <bazerman@education.ucsb.edu>
> > Sent: 24 October 2016 23:18
> > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Time for a Generational Change
> >
> > Mike,  As a mostly lurker with occasional outburst, I want to say how
> > much I have appreciated all you have done to foster interesting thoughts
> > and to put interesting people in contact.  Now I hope you too will have
> > the leisure and pleasure of lurking.
> > Best,
> > Chuck
>
>
>