From lpscholar2@gmail.com Mon Aug 1 08:06:26 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 08:06:26 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity In-Reply-To: References: <579b8775.9550620a.194fc.7f87@mx.google.com> <579c0509.c186620a.c7 b96.d0a9@mx.google.com> <90B0BB1F-B0EC-48E3-A907-D63B0E3109FD@tlu. ee> <579e49fb.47cf620a.97b4e.387c@mx.google.com>, <8E0A4104-7C37-41C4-A4AE-F3CC0D482C71@tlu.ee> Message-ID: <579f6577.c4e4420a.11830.25dc@mx.google.com> Annalisa, Your questions to Rein seems to gather around the notion of (grasp/ity) in contrast to (graspable essence) or having a central center from which one perceives *things*. My question to Rein explores the notion of *having* a center from which one perceives Buddha/nature or more precisely Buddha/ity. My way of understanding where the center *exists* is everywhere in Buddha/ity. There is no *one* center from which the world is graspable but every *particular* entity is centered in its own way ? as centered idio/syncratically. This throws into relief the notion of structuring constructions. Umberto Eco wrote a book on the metaphor of *tree* and *labyrinth* tracing the way Western (modes) of thought and meaning implicate the tree metaphor (roots, branches) as hierarchical *systems* of categories and classes and taxonomies Something subsuming something else *under* it. The metaphor of under/standing through tree metaphors that grasp essence or nature as moving higher and lower in layers or levels or structures of classification. This is all a *particular* (mode) of thought. Rein exploring Buddha *nature* and *essence* indicates that these two notions are misunderstandings of Buddha existence which focuses attention on *ity* phenomena arising from *centers* that exist with every particular entity. Ity phenomena is idio/syncretic *dependent arising* which radically negates all notions of *independently arising* phenomena *in itself*. I may be misreading what Rein is gesturing toward, but it is my attempt to follow Rein through Dogen. The difference between modern/ism and modern/ity. There is no essential graspable modern/ism but modern/ity exists and is a particular (mode) of attention and focus interpreted through the *middle way* of Buddha ity. Rein, if I have garbled your message then I hope my misunderstanding can lead to clearer understanding in your response. (ity) and (ism) are radically different approaches to phenomena arising. Your example of wood burning that does not *change* to ashes is a particular challenge for Western notions of *change* that have the mode of evoking *trees* that generate types, kinds, categories, classes, taxonomy, with *higher* and *lower* super and sub *structures* that are *constructed* The focus on particularity is not independently arising phenomena but particular/ity has an idio/syncratic *way* (mode) of becoming other than it is now. Centers exist with each dependently arising phenomena coming into existence but if no particular event arises then no center arises. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Annalisa Aguilar Sent: July 31, 2016 2:21 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity Hi Rein, Thanks for the discussion. :) Yes, but from what can change be measured? How do *you* detect change of any kind? There must be something static in order for change to be detected. I'm not arguing at all that there is no change or that everything is static. Even in Einstein's Theory of Relativity an stationary observer is required to detect change. As far as "ity," it is an interesting concept, but if I am understanding you, it seems to possess something of an ethical challenge for my sensibility because it means that lying or psychopathology are acceptable states of being, unless you are using this theory of "ity" to explain how it is that a person can vacillate between one moral point of reference and another without any self-awareness, one mood to another. Even though the weather patterns change, there are levels of predictability. Why be able to predict at all? How can any pattern of change be detected at all if there is nothing stationary? Also, why is it that there isn't constant mayhem and destruction, everywhere, all the time, forever and for all time; past, present, and future? Regardless of what Aristotle said, something must be stationary to account for change and that stationary point is you. In what you describe, there is nothing holding it all together to measure by except you. Without an orientation point, it dissolves into moral relativity and ethical morass, and seems nihilistic. If that is the cosmology you see as obtaining, then how is there any determination of values at all? Even if Trump is vacillating here and there between this and that form of ridicule, his body is relatively constant, his body doesn't suddenly shape shift into Liza Minelli and start singing broadway musicals, then into a pink flamingo eating crayfish and then back to The Donald we all know and love. :) Or how about this? Why is there only one Donald and not 5? Sort of borg-like hovering around the podium waving his hands in that way he does but like a slide carousel of display? How did Dogen detect the change, that is, when what was the firewood, underwent transition through time, turned into ashes, which was firewood no more? And why didn't the firewood turn into a potato chip, a cellphone, or an Apollo space capsule instead? What is your definition of change? If you don't mind sharing. :) Kind regards, Annalisa From rein.raud@tlu.ee Mon Aug 1 10:05:53 2016 From: rein.raud@tlu.ee (Rein Raud) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 20:05:53 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructionsof selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity In-Reply-To: <579f6577.c4e4420a.11830.25dc@mx.google.com> References: <579b8775.9550620a.194fc.7f87@mx.google.com> <579c0509.c186620a.c7 b96.d0a9@mx.google.com> <90B0BB1F-B0EC-48E3-A907-D63B0E3109FD@tlu. ee> <579e49fb.47cf620a.97b4e.387c@mx.google.com> <8E0A4104-7C37-41C4-A4AE-F3CC0 D482C71@tlu.ee> <579f6577.c4e4420a.11830.25dc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6B3E2AC1-4C27-4D2E-B7C3-E18CF79821EC@tlu.ee> Hello again, First of all, let?s note that the word ?Buddha? denotes neither the historical figure known by that sobriquet, nor any mythological person in much of Buddhist thought, Dogen?s included. For some, it is just an advanced, emancipated state of mind that experiences reality directly, for example, what we go through when the performance of an actor or musician completely carries us away (as opposed to the state of mind of a critical connoisseur who compares the performance of this actor in her memory with someone else?s, or thinks about what the director wanted to achieve with this or that). For Dogen?s notion of Buddha, however, the closest Western equivalent would probably be ?authentic being/becoming? or something like that. What he constantly stresses is that authentic reality is not hidden between what we have around us, but it is that very same reality. It is only through our particular ity that we can access it. Larry is quite correct in opposing this view to the Western isms that want to organize this reality hierarchically and counterpose the universal to the particular. Chris has also quite correctly pointed out that, as regards the US elections, the question is not what the candidates actually are, but what the electors perceive them to be. I am already looking forward to an analysis of this process by Jeffrey Alexander or his disciples. What is communicated and perceived can never be the ity of what is, because both communication and perception, each from a slightly different angle, presuppose a selection of salient features from among all there is. So there is really no use to construe the opposition in terms of who is actually what - but who chooses to highlight what. From this point of view, Trump?s blatant anti-intellectualism combined with a cult of force and winning do make up an ideologically consistent position, even if he contradicts himself at every step. Now to Annalisa - you say there ?has to? be a center, a ?me? (or just a substratum) behind all change. I do not agree, but could you situate this center anywhere? In ?The Questions of Milinda? the king Menandros (from a Greek line of rulers stemming from Alexander the Great) asks the monk Nagasena why he does not think there is a self-identical ?me?. Nagasena returns the question by asking if the king arrived at their meeting by foot or on a chariot. - On a chariot, obviously. Nagasena then asks the king to point to where ?the chariot? is located - it is none of the details that make it up, such as wheels etc, and neither could one call the heap of all these constituents thrown together ?a chariot?. So what emerges as a ?chariot? is nothing but the way how these things relate to each other, how they are organized. We can replace any detail with another one (sometimes even have to) - but if we put a wheel in the place of the axle, there is no chariot. In the same way, Nagasena says, it is impossible to point to a ?me?, which is nothing but the relation between physical and mental constituents. By the way, this is supported by recent neuroscience, which says that the place of ?me? cannot be located in any section of the brain, but emerges in the simultaneous activation of certain sections, not necessarily the same ones. In other words, it is a pattern of brain activity, not an entity in itself. What later Buddhist thinkers added is that we can close in on the ity from the outside, as it were, through negations. We can never exhaustively say what Trump is or will be, but we can quite definitely say he never has been nor will he ever become f ex a black construction worker or a single mother of five. This, of course, is neither an argument against him nor in his favour. With best wishes, Rein > On 01 Aug 2016, at 18:06, Lplarry wrote: > > Annalisa, > Your questions to Rein seems to gather around the notion of (grasp/ity) in contrast to (graspable essence) or having a central center from which one perceives *things*. > > My question to Rein explores the notion of *having* a center from which one perceives Buddha/nature or more precisely Buddha/ity. > My way of understanding where the center *exists* is everywhere in Buddha/ity. There is no *one* center from which the world is graspable but every *particular* entity is centered in its own way ? as centered idio/syncratically. This throws into relief the notion of structuring constructions. > > Umberto Eco wrote a book on the metaphor of *tree* and *labyrinth* tracing the way Western (modes) of thought and meaning implicate the tree metaphor (roots, branches) as hierarchical *systems* of categories and classes and taxonomies > Something subsuming something else *under* it. The metaphor of under/standing through tree metaphors that grasp essence or nature as moving higher and lower in layers or levels or structures of classification. > This is all a *particular* (mode) of thought. > > Rein exploring Buddha *nature* and *essence* indicates that these two notions are misunderstandings of Buddha existence which focuses attention on *ity* phenomena arising from *centers* that exist with every particular entity. Ity phenomena is idio/syncretic *dependent arising* which radically negates all notions of *independently arising* phenomena *in itself*. > I may be misreading what Rein is gesturing toward, but it is my attempt to follow Rein through Dogen. > > The difference between modern/ism and modern/ity. There is no essential graspable modern/ism but modern/ity exists and is a particular (mode) of attention and focus interpreted through the *middle way* of Buddha ity. > > Rein, if I have garbled your message then I hope my misunderstanding can lead to clearer understanding in your response. > (ity) and (ism) are radically different approaches to phenomena arising. > Your example of wood burning that does not *change* to ashes is a particular challenge for Western notions of *change* that have the mode of evoking *trees* that generate types, kinds, categories, classes, taxonomy, with *higher* and *lower* super and sub *structures* that are *constructed* > > The focus on particularity is not independently arising phenomena but particular/ity has an idio/syncratic *way* (mode) of becoming other than it is now. > Centers exist with each dependently arising phenomena coming into existence but if no particular event arises then no center arises. > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: Annalisa Aguilar > Sent: July 31, 2016 2:21 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity > > Hi Rein, > > > Thanks for the discussion. :) > > > Yes, but from what can change be measured? How do *you* detect change of any kind? There must be something static in order for change to be detected. I'm not arguing at all that there is no change or that everything is static. Even in Einstein's Theory of Relativity an stationary observer is required to detect change. > > > As far as "ity," it is an interesting concept, but if I am understanding you, it seems to possess something of an ethical challenge for my sensibility because it means that lying or psychopathology are acceptable states of being, unless you are using this theory of "ity" to explain how it is that a person can vacillate between one moral point of reference and another without any self-awareness, one mood to another. > > > Even though the weather patterns change, there are levels of predictability. Why be able to predict at all? > > > How can any pattern of change be detected at all if there is nothing stationary? > > > Also, why is it that there isn't constant mayhem and destruction, everywhere, all the time, forever and for all time; past, present, and future? > > > Regardless of what Aristotle said, something must be stationary to account for change and that stationary point is you. In what you describe, there is nothing holding it all together to measure by except you. Without an orientation point, it dissolves into moral relativity and ethical morass, and seems nihilistic. If that is the cosmology you see as obtaining, then how is there any determination of values at all? > > > Even if Trump is vacillating here and there between this and that form of ridicule, his body is relatively constant, his body doesn't suddenly shape shift into Liza Minelli and start singing broadway musicals, then into a pink flamingo eating crayfish and then back to The Donald we all know and love. :) > > > Or how about this? Why is there only one Donald and not 5? Sort of borg-like hovering around the podium waving his hands in that way he does but like a slide carousel of display? > > > How did Dogen detect the change, that is, when what was the firewood, underwent transition through time, turned into ashes, which was firewood no more? And why didn't the firewood turn into a potato chip, a cellphone, or an Apollo space capsule instead? > > > What is your definition of change? If you don't mind sharing. :) > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > From annalisa@unm.edu Mon Aug 1 10:11:01 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:11:01 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity In-Reply-To: <579f6577.c4e4420a.11830.25dc@mx.google.com> References: <579b8775.9550620a.194fc.7f87@mx.google.com> <579c0509.c186620a.c7 b96.d0a9@mx.google.com> <90B0BB1F-B0EC-48E3-A907-D63B0E3109FD@tlu. ee> <579e49fb.47cf620a.97b4e.387c@mx.google.com>, <8E0A4104-7C37-41C4-A4AE-F3CC0D482C71@tlu.ee> , <579f6577.c4e4420a.11830.25dc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello, Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). I consider a law as a stationary point. It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there must be a stationary point regardless. Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change can be detected. I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As in no thing. And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time and space? First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as reference points. Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is existence. Which is. Right here right now. :) Kind regards, Annalisa P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post of his. From rein.raud@tlu.ee Mon Aug 1 10:31:20 2016 From: rein.raud@tlu.ee (Rein Raud) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 20:31:20 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructionsof selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity In-Reply-To: References: <579b8775.9550620a.194fc.7f87@mx.google.com> <579c0509.c186620a.c 7b96.d0a9@mx.google.com> <90B0BB1F-B0EC-48E3-A907-D63B0E3109FD@tl u.ee> <579e49fb.47cf620a.97b4e.387c@mx.google.com> <8E0A4104-7C37-41C4-A4AE-F3CC0 D482C71@tlu.ee> <579f6577.c4e4420a.11830.25dc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <021CE6E9-643B-448B-93DB-53D29FCFF09C@tlu.ee> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point is, this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so that it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and does not move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. And that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein > On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > Hello, > > > Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? > > > In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. > > > Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. > > > For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). I consider a law as a stationary point. > > > It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" > > > Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there must be a stationary point regardless. > > > Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change can be detected. > > > I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As in no thing. > > > And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. > > > How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time and space? > > > First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as reference points. > > > Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. > > > Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is existence. Which is. > > > Right here right now. :) > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > > > P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post of his. From schuckthemonkey@gmail.com Mon Aug 1 12:10:00 2016 From: schuckthemonkey@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 15:10:00 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs political constructions of identity Message-ID: All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with how they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather than their -ness's. Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: > Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this > thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up copy-pasting > a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we can > define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we speak > about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that ?change? can > only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point is, > this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change > from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite > arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating around > the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We can > imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so that > it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and does not > move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle > seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around > its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is > just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the > primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. And > that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some > calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein > > > > > On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just > reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is > changed detected? And from who's point of view? > > > > > > In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. > Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. > > > > > > Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the > reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also > change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is > illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, > whether we understand those laws or not. > > > > > > For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to > Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). > I consider a law as a stationary point. > > > > > > It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same > body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years > ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have > yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I > would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" > > > > > > Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change > happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there > must be a stationary point regardless. > > > > > > Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change > can be detected. > > > > > > I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, > which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As > in no thing. > > > > > > And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent > world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is > here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the > thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It > doesn't present itself, whatever it is. > > > > > > How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time > and space? > > > > > > First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only > things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, > change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to > Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the > change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary > "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing > with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to > conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we > are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as > reference points. > > > > > > Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive > and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to > cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and > time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. > > > > > > Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is > existence. Which is. > > > > > > Right here right now. :) > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Annalisa > > > > > > P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post > of his. > > > From jkindred@cnr.edu Mon Aug 1 13:09:40 2016 From: jkindred@cnr.edu (Kindred, Jessica Dr.) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 20:09:40 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Pedagogy of Identity Transformation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm late to this quest(ion), but wanted to suggest: As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl by John Colapinto about David Reimer, a book that juxtaposes the medical and research notes of John Money to David Reimer's memory (via interviews) and is a great basis for writing or thinking one's biography of gender) . Related to this and relevant is Anne Fausto-Sterling's The Five Sexes. I also wanted to suggest an exercise I often do with students that helps in perspective taking on identity, one's own and others, and that is to have a group of individuals pick names from a field (could be historical figures, of a discipline ... or parts of the brain) and each does research about that identity and comes to present to/with the group as that identity, using the word "I" only for that. J. Kindred ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] on behalf of David H Kirshner [dkirsh@lsu.edu] Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 1:18 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Identity through "experiential texts": Pedagogy of Identity Transformation My thanks to all who responded to my request for suggestions of "experiential texts" that could help perturb notions of identity. I also received some off-line responses, which I promised to summarize. But I'm now in the slightly awkward position of not knowing for sure if off-line responders would like to maintain their privacy. So, if you replied off-line and would not like me to share your post, please let me know by Tuesday morning. My idea of using experiential texts with teacher candidates is to perturb their sense of identity with the goal that "self-awareness of positioning facilitates engagement with [their future] students of diverse cultural locations." This agenda seems to have a struck a nerve for some. But what should I actually do with these experiential texts? How can we conceptualize a pedagogy oriented toward this set of goals and methods? What kind of "learning" am I trying to promote in my course? In case people would like to engage with these questions, I'm offering some initial thoughts; this new thread seems to fit well with the ongoing discussion of Liquid Modernity. Toward a Pedagogy of Identity Transformation: For me, identity is indexed to cultural location(s). Thus the goal of identity transformation becomes a goal of cultural transportation. In particular, having students with an essentialized, modernist experience of their identity come to apprehend their identity in a fragmented, postmodern trope is to move them to a postmodern community in which this fragmentary self-apprehension is a normative practice. So, the experiential texts, though certainly having impact on individuals, are conceived by me as instruments of community. There are two approaches to drawing students to cultural practices that representing cultural location to which they do not already aspire to relocate. The "acculturationist" approach is to conflate the classroom authority of teacher with the teacher's bona fide membership in the target culture so that students come to aspire to membership in the latter. For instance, this is the method of critical pedagogy in which one enlist students as "'transformative intellectuals' (Giroux, 1988), 'cultural workers' (Freire, 1998) capable of identifying and redressing the injustices, inequalities, and myths of an often oppressive world" (Gruenewald, 2003, p. 4) by getting them to identify with a culture of resistance. The "enculturationist" approach is to nurture the desired practices within the classroom microculture, which serves as a surrogate for the target culture. This nurturance takes the form of subliminal encouragement of ever closer approximations to the intended practices. In adapting to the classroom microculture, students come to embody (to greater or lesser extents) the intended practices. Though subliminally encouraged, the intended practices are not coerced. Students should not be aware of the cultural agenda, and their degree/rate of adaption is mediated by the complex of their existing identity structure. The enculturation approach is illustrated in Dewey (1900): "When the school introduces and trains each child of society into membership with such a little community, saturating him with the spirit of service, and providing him with the instruments of effective self-direction, we shall have the deepest and best guarantee of a larger society which is worthy, lovely, and harmonious" (p. 44). My intention is to use the enculturationist approach. Thus through my subliminal influence the experiential texts will form a basis for classroom discussion and classroom community in which postmodern sensibilities of self (may) become normative. I will try to avoid explicit mention of postmodernism, lest the implicit agenda of postmodern identity becomes experienced as a mandate (i.e., the pedagogy shifts to acculturation). For this reason, I may downplay the use of postmodern scholarly texts that are not also experiential texts, as having students identify as postmodern academics, is not the goal. At least, that's my plan, now. David Dewey, J. (1900). School and society. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. Gruenewald, D. A. (2003). The best of both worlds: A critical pedagogy of place. Educational Researcher, 32(4), 3-12. -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:05 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu) Subject: [Xmca-l] Identity through "experiential texts" I'm preparing to teach a capstone graduate course for teachers-to-be that includes a focus on identity. The major assignment is a Personal Literacy Portfolio in which students compile, organize, and discuss artifacts of their past in exploration of their identity. The rationale is that this self-awareness of positioning facilitates engagement with students of diverse cultural locations. I'm asking for suggestions of course resources. Rather than a single course reader, I'm looking for "experiential texts"-that is creative products in any medium that can help perturb essentialist ideas of core identity in favor of a more complex, poststructural view of identity as multiple and fragmented. Media can include academic writing in psychology, sociology, philosophy; short stories; poetry; film; works of art, etc. If you'd like to email me off-line (dkirsh@lsu.edu), I'll send a compilation of all suggestions to XMCA. Below is a list of some experiential texts I'm already considering. David Walkerdine, V. (1990). Chapter 1: Sex, power and pedagogy. In V. Walkerdine (Ed.), Schoolgirl fictions(pp. 3-15). London: Verso. Reprinted from Screen Education, 38, 14-24, 1981. PBS Video: http://www.pbs.org/program/nine-months-that-made-you/ 9 Months That Made You - How a person's individuality is developed, including their sexuality Documentary on the life of a child kept without language for 13 years. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/14/genie-feral-child-los-angeles-researchers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjZolHCrC8E Movie: Enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_(2013_film) The film stars Jake Gyllenhaal as two men who are physically identical, but different in terms of personality. Gee, J. P. (2001). Identity as an analytic lens for research in education. In W. G. Secada (Ed.), Review of Research in Education, 25 (pp. 3-56). Washington, DC: American Educational Research Association. [identity = kind of person one is recognized as being] Stremmel, A., Burns, J., Nganga, C., & Bertolini, K. (2015). Countering the essentialized discourse of teacher education. Journal of Early Childhood Teacher Education, 36(2), 156-174. [discussed in http://www.tcrecord.org/Content.asp?ContentID=20275] From annalisa@unm.edu Mon Aug 1 17:15:51 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 00:15:51 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs political constructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello! Great discussion. :) I do not think I am defining change *as opposed to* stability. I am defining change from what doesn't change, in that something must not be changing in order to perceive change. That can include relative "stability" and relative "change." If you care to use "impermanence" then my question is, how do you define impermanence? There is one thing that is always consistent no matter what changes or doesn't change, and that is existence. But *only if* you consider existence as something that comes before a thing is a thing. It is before we name a thing. This is where the detection of existence is misconstrued as having to do with a word or a name. The thing is before it is named, and this is true. But whatever makes up a thing is (exists) before the thing is a thing, which means before it is named. So even if you have your chariot and you remove all at makes up the chariot-complex, there is still a need of wheels and sundry chariot parts that exist first in order for the chariot to be (become) one, otherwise it would be a banana, or anything not a chariot. :) There is always something that exists before a thing is itself. And even if you remove all the things that make up the chariot, there is still the space that exists in which had been in terms of location. If you can show me a chariot without space and without time, I should like to see that chariot in its existence. (I wonder if this is where Plato's ideas derive, not sure, but... that's a digression). We cannot eliminate existence itself. Although apparently the sophist did try! In this case, existence is that "third point of view" that is all points of view and not a single one, it cannot be arbitrary because to be arbitrary is to exclude this point from all others even if it is chosen by chance. If we include all points, this has to be existence. So existence is not a singular point in time and space, because existence pervades all. Anywhere in the universe, space is and time is, and so in the apparent universe we can remove all things in it, and existence remains. All that is in the universe is just manifesting existence in an infinite number of names and forms, changing infinitely in time. This holds true for the Buddhists, as I understand (though I'm not up on my Buddhist studies and would defer to you on that). The problem, as the thread began, has to do with what is self and what is identity and how are those "constructed." How do we differentiate from what is self and what is identity? I believe it began with having to do with categories, and I was making a distinction between the kinds of categories that Trump makes and the kinds that Clinton makes. Both category sets, I hope I've been able to illustrate, are dubious. For me Clinton's categories are easier to tolerate than the dichotomous categories presented by Trump (Trump - category 1 vs not-Trump - category 2). Unless I did not quite get it, so please correct me if that is the case, you had offered the notion of change (I think) to isolate what makes Trump trump-like and what makes Clinton clinton-like. Then you introduced an intriguing way to look at this from a conceptual notion of "ity". As a becoming-ness that prevails in a particular person to be who that person ends up being (until the person becomes someone else as-if in increments). Did I get that right? That becoming isn't a static quality like the blue of the sky, or a rock being hard, but a process of change (or impermanence) at a particular point in time. And so this is why I asked you for your definition of change, and offered my own understanding of change, as a point of reference. If I may point out (light-heartedly), then you changed the word from "change" to "impermanence"! :) So, ok, now I'm asking what is your definition of impermanence? Also, I agree that Buddha mind (as you describe) is well worth having. "Buddhi" is the sanskrit word for "mind" as a particular aspect, so... in a way it is redundant to say "mind mind" :) "Buddhi" is that aspect of the mind that is decisive. To be awake to the reality of what is, in the present moment, right here, right now, is the only way to be. :) Otherwise... it's Trump's mind for all! Kind regards, Annalisa From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Aug 1 17:27:17 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:27:17 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs political constructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: your focus on change, Annalisa, seems parallel to Bauman's contrast of solid and liquid. That contrast, in turn, seems very similar to the notions of two kinds of Buddhist thinking described earlier. Carried away by the flow or standing fast in the torrent? very generative discussion. mike mike On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > Hello! > > > Great discussion. :) > > > I do not think I am defining change *as opposed to* stability. I am > defining change from what doesn't change, in that something must not be > changing in order to perceive change. That can include relative "stability" > and relative "change." > > > If you care to use "impermanence" then my question is, how do you define > impermanence? > > > There is one thing that is always consistent no matter what changes or > doesn't change, and that is existence. But *only if* you consider existence > as something that comes before a thing is a thing. > > > It is before we name a thing. This is where the detection of existence is > misconstrued as having to do with a word or a name. The thing is before it > is named, and this is true. But whatever makes up a thing is (exists) > before the thing is a thing, which means before it is named. > > > So even if you have your chariot and you remove all at makes up the > chariot-complex, there is still a need of wheels and sundry chariot parts > that exist first in order for the chariot to be (become) one, otherwise it > would be a banana, or anything not a chariot. :) > > > There is always something that exists before a thing is itself. And even > if you remove all the things that make up the chariot, there is still the > space that exists in which had been in terms of location. If you can show > me a chariot without space and without time, I should like to see that > chariot in its existence. (I wonder if this is where Plato's ideas derive, > not sure, but... that's a digression). > > > We cannot eliminate existence itself. Although apparently the sophist did > try! In this case, existence is that "third point of view" that is all > points of view and not a single one, it cannot be arbitrary because to be > arbitrary is to exclude this point from all others even if it is chosen by > chance. If we include all points, this has to be existence. > > > So existence is not a singular point in time and space, because existence > pervades all. Anywhere in the universe, space is and time is, and so in the > apparent universe we can remove all things in it, and existence remains. > > > All that is in the universe is just manifesting existence in an infinite > number of names and forms, changing infinitely in time. > > > This holds true for the Buddhists, as I understand (though I'm not up on > my Buddhist studies and would defer to you on that). The problem, as the > thread began, has to do with what is self and what is identity and how are > those "constructed." How do we differentiate from what is self and what is > identity? > > > I believe it began with having to do with categories, and I was making a > distinction between the kinds of categories that Trump makes and the kinds > that Clinton makes. Both category sets, I hope I've been able to > illustrate, are dubious. For me Clinton's categories are easier to tolerate > than the dichotomous categories presented by Trump (Trump - category 1 vs > not-Trump - category 2). > > > Unless I did not quite get it, so please correct me if that is the case, > you had offered the notion of change (I think) to isolate what makes Trump > trump-like and what makes Clinton clinton-like. Then you introduced an > intriguing way to look at this from a conceptual notion of "ity". As a > becoming-ness that prevails in a particular person to be who that person > ends up being (until the person becomes someone else as-if in increments). > Did I get that right? That becoming isn't a static quality like the blue of > the sky, or a rock being hard, but a process of change (or impermanence) at > a particular point in time. > > > And so this is why I asked you for your definition of change, and offered > my own understanding of change, as a point of reference. If I may point out > (light-heartedly), then you changed the word from "change" to > "impermanence"! :) > > > So, ok, now I'm asking what is your definition of impermanence? > > > Also, I agree that Buddha mind (as you describe) is well worth having. > > > "Buddhi" is the sanskrit word for "mind" as a particular aspect, so... in > a way it is redundant to say "mind mind" :) > > > "Buddhi" is that aspect of the mind that is decisive. To be awake to the > reality of what is, in the present moment, right here, right now, is the > only way to be. :) > > > Otherwise... it's Trump's mind for all! > > > Kind regards, > > > Annalisa > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From rein.raud@tlu.ee Mon Aug 1 20:52:53 2016 From: rein.raud@tlu.ee (Rein Raud) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 06:52:53 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. With best wishes, Rein > On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: > > All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein > writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking to > the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down the > candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less complicated > in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with how > they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so > uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being > manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either > Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash > value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather > than their -ness's. > > Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris > > On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: > >> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this >> thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up copy-pasting >> a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we can >> define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we speak >> about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that ?change? can >> only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point is, >> this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change >> from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating around >> the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We can >> imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so that >> it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and does not >> move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle >> seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around >> its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is >> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the >> primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. And >> that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some >> calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein >> >> >> >>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar > > wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> >>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just >> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is >> changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>> >>> >>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>> >>> >>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also >> change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is >> illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, >> whether we understand those laws or not. >>> >>> >>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>> >>> >>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same >> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years >> ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have >> yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I >> would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>> >>> >>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change >> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there >> must be a stationary point regardless. >>> >>> >>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change >> can be detected. >>> >>> >>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, >> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As >> in no thing. >>> >>> >>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent >> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is >> here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the >> thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It >> doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>> >>> >>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time >> and space? >>> >>> >>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only >> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, >> change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to >> Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the >> change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary >> "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing >> with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to >> conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we >> are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as >> reference points. >>> >>> >>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive >> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to >> cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and >> time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>> >>> >>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >> existence. Which is. >>> >>> >>> Right here right now. :) >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> Annalisa >>> >>> >>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post >> of his. >> >> >> From rein.raud@tlu.ee Mon Aug 1 23:20:47 2016 From: rein.raud@tlu.ee (Rein Raud) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:20:47 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: > > Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. > > Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. > > Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. > > Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. > > With best wishes, > > Rein > >> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >> >> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein >> writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking to >> the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down the >> candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less complicated >> in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with how >> they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so >> uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being >> manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either >> Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash >> value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather >> than their -ness's. >> >> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >> >> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >> >>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this >>> thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up copy-pasting >>> a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we can >>> define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we speak >>> about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that ?change? can >>> only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point is, >>> this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change >>> from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating around >>> the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We can >>> imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so that >>> it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and does not >>> move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle >>> seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around >>> its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is >>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the >>> primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. And >>> that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some >>> calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> >>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just >>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is >>> changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>> >>>> >>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>> >>>> >>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also >>> change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is >>> illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, >>> whether we understand those laws or not. >>>> >>>> >>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>> >>>> >>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same >>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years >>> ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have >>> yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I >>> would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>> >>>> >>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change >>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there >>> must be a stationary point regardless. >>>> >>>> >>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change >>> can be detected. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, >>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As >>> in no thing. >>>> >>>> >>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent >>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is >>> here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the >>> thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It >>> doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>> >>>> >>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time >>> and space? >>>> >>>> >>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only >>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, >>> change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to >>> Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the >>> change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary >>> "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing >>> with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to >>> conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we >>> are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as >>> reference points. >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive >>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to >>> cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and >>> time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>> >>>> >>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>> existence. Which is. >>>> >>>> >>>> Right here right now. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> Annalisa >>>> >>>> >>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post >>> of his. >>> >>> >>> > From dkirsh@lsu.edu Tue Aug 2 03:04:18 2016 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:04:18 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Summary of off-line responses Message-ID: In addition to the online suggestions and conversations, I received 4 off-line responses to my request for "experiential texts" that perturb notions of identity. Here is a summary of the off-line responses. This has been a wonderful shower of resources for me, greatly enriching the work I will do with our preservice teachers. My thanks to all. David 1. Anna Stetsenko was kind enough to send me an article and link me to her work on identity as informed by Vygotsky, Freire and Bakhtin. Vianna, E., & Stetsenko, A. (2011). Connecting learning and identity development through a transformative activist stance: Application in adolescent development in a child welfare program. Human Development, 54, 313-338. This paper is based on a series of works on self/identity that can be found on my www.academia page or I could send some of them if you are interested. Some of these themes from these works have been taken up for example in Ian Burkitt, The social selves: Theories of Self and Society. 2. Christina Berchini kindly sent me three of her publications and links to further works that address race / identity / experience in some way. Christina is not part of XMCA, but was forwarded my request by Peter Smagorinsky -- thanks, Peter. I have attached a recent IJQS piece, in which I address teacher identity development. Berchini, C. (2016). Structuring contexts: Pathways toward un-obstructing race-consciousness. International Journal of Qualitative Studies in Education, Special Issue, 29(8), 1030-1044. I have also attached my English Education piece, which is a personal reflection wherein I address tensions/contradictions in my own practices and attempts to employ a critical pedagogy in my teacher education classroom. Berchini, C. (2014). Learning to teach and critical Pedagogy: Struggling with a "Do as I say/ Not as I do" practice. English Education, 46(3), 247-267. I also have a chapter in a book titled What Does It Mean to Be White in America? Breaking the White Code of Silence, A Collection of Personal Narratives. In this chapter, I address my personal experiences with learning to understand my own racial identity development. (The other essays in this volume might also be of interest to you, given that it provides a series of "experiential texts" and can be bought on createspace for $12 with this coupon code: GFGPQJ7S (case sensitive). Berchini, C. (2016). How to be white: A primer. In G. David & S.F. Forbes (Eds.), What does it mean to be white in America? (pp. 45-58). New York, NY: 2Leaf Press. I also wonder whether some of my published creative work might be useful for you: [1]Berchini, C. (2016). "School is what you make of it," and other lies my parents told me. Empty Sink Publishing. Issue 17. http://emptysinkpublishing.com/reality/4891-2/ [2]Berchini, C. (2015, April 28). Why are all the teachers white? Education Week Teacher. http://www.edweek.org/tm/articles/2015/04/28/why-are-all-the-teachers-white.html 3. Richard Beach was kind enough to send a bibliography as well as a link to an amazing Wiki (http://identities.pbworks.com/w/page/64216419/FrontPage) that he developed in conjunction with his textbook, Identity-Focused ELA Teaching: A Curriculum Framework for Diverse Learners and Contexts, by Richard Beach, Anthony Johnston, and Amanda Haertling-Thein, published by Routledge Press in March, 2015 in print and Kindle/Nook editions. One key focus is how students own identities constituted through different discourses (Gee) and peer-group/community allegiances shape their responses to texts, for example, discourses of race, class, or gender/sexuality (see attached bibliography). 4. Ellen Scully-Russ, sent me an exercise "I use in my adult learning class to help students to explore identity and identify formation:" Who am I? (Ask yourself this question at least 20 times and write down your answer each time you ask the question.) Debrief/reflective questions * Is there particular hierarchy or order to my identities? * How are my identities aligned? * How do my identities contradict? * How do each of my identities influence my assumptions about learning: what it is, how it occurs? * How did I develop my identity(s)? * What resources have I used to develop my identity (ies), and how have I acquired these resources? * How do my identities change? * What is my sense of self? Again, a great thanks to all who replied. -- -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:21 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Poems and Works of Art?? My thanks for the many great suggestions of movies and academic works! I would also welcome suggestions of poems and works of graphic art that seem to you to problematize the notion of identity. You're welcome to send suggestions off-line, and I'll compile and share with XMCA. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:05 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu) Subject: [Xmca-l] Identity through "experiential texts" I'm preparing to teach a capstone graduate course for teachers-to-be that includes a focus on identity. The major assignment is a Personal Literacy Portfolio in which students compile, organize, and discuss artifacts of their past in exploration of their identity. The rationale is that this self-awareness of positioning facilitates engagement with students of diverse cultural locations. I'm asking for suggestions of course resources. Rather than a single course reader, I'm looking for "experiential texts"-that is creative products in any medium that can help perturb essentialist ideas of core identity in favor of a more complex, poststructural view of identity as multiple and fragmented. Media can include academic writing in psychology, sociology, philosophy; short stories; poetry; film; works of art, etc. If you'd like to email me off-line (dkirsh@lsu.edu), I'll send a compilation of all suggestions to XMCA. Below is a list of some experiential texts I'm already considering. David Walkerdine, V. (1990). Chapter 1: Sex, power and pedagogy. In V. Walkerdine (Ed.), Schoolgirl fictions(pp. 3-15). London: Verso. Reprinted from Screen Education, 38, 14-24, 1981. PBS Video: http://www.pbs.org/program/nine-months-that-made-you/ 9 Months That Made You - How a person's individuality is developed, including their sexuality Documentary on the life of a child kept without language for 13 years. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/14/genie-feral-child-los-angeles-researchers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjZolHCrC8E Movie: Enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_(2013_film) The film stars Jake Gyllenhaal as two men who are physically identical, but different in terms of personality. Gee, J. P. (2001). Identity as an analytic lens for research in education. In W. G. Secada (Ed.), Review of Research in Education, 25 (pp. 3-56). Washington, DC: American Educational Research Association. [identity = kind of person one is recognized as being] Stremmel, A., Burns, J., Nganga, C., & Bertolini, K. (2015). Countering the essentialized discourse of teacher education. Journal of Early Childhood Teacher Education, 36(2), 156-174. [discussed in http://www.tcrecord.org/Content.asp?ContentID=20275] From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 06:50:48 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 07:50:48 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Rein, Thank you for the correction. I am wondering if the sentence you corrected and what follows it is related to the definition of continuity in the calculus. The logic is not from finite math. The continuity may be an illusion, but real, in the same way that Santa Claus may be? Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > > Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > >> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >> >> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >> >> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >> >> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. >> >> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Rein >> >>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>> >>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein >>> writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking to >>> the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down the >>> candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less complicated >>> in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with how >>> they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so >>> uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being >>> manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either >>> Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash >>> value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather >>> than their -ness's. >>> >>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>> >>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this >>>> thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up copy-pasting >>>> a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we can >>>> define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we speak >>>> about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that ?change? can >>>> only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point is, >>>> this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change >>>> from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >>>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating around >>>> the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We can >>>> imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so that >>>> it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and does not >>>> move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle >>>> seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around >>>> its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is >>>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the >>>> primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. And >>>> that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some >>>> calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just >>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is >>>> changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also >>>> change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is >>>> illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, >>>> whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same >>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years >>>> ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have >>>> yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I >>>> would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change >>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there >>>> must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change >>>> can be detected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, >>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As >>>> in no thing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent >>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is >>>> here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the >>>> thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It >>>> doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time >>>> and space? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only >>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, >>>> change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to >>>> Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the >>>> change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary >>>> "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing >>>> with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to >>>> conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we >>>> are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as >>>> reference points. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive >>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to >>>> cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and >>>> time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>> existence. Which is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Annalisa >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post >>>> of his. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Aug 2 07:24:32 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 07:24:32 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Summary of off-line responses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wonderful collection of materials. Thanks for starting this, David. mike On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:04 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > In addition to the online suggestions and conversations, I received 4 > off-line responses to my request for "experiential texts" that perturb > notions of identity. Here is a summary of the off-line responses. > > This has been a wonderful shower of resources for me, greatly enriching > the work I will do with our preservice teachers. > My thanks to all. > > David > > 1. Anna Stetsenko was kind enough to send me an article and link me to her > work on identity as informed by Vygotsky, Freire and Bakhtin. > > Vianna, E., & Stetsenko, A. (2011). Connecting learning and identity > development through a transformative activist stance: Application in > adolescent development in a child welfare program. Human Development, 54, > 313-338. > > This paper is based on a series of works on self/identity that can be > found on my www.academia page or I could send some of them if you are > interested. Some of these themes from these works have been taken up for > example in Ian Burkitt, The social selves: Theories of Self and Society. > > 2. Christina Berchini kindly sent me three of her publications and links > to further works that address race / identity / experience in some way. > Christina is not part of XMCA, but was forwarded my request by Peter > Smagorinsky -- thanks, Peter. > > I have attached a recent IJQS piece, in which I address teacher identity > development. > Berchini, C. (2016). Structuring contexts: Pathways toward un-obstructing > race-consciousness. International Journal of Qualitative Studies in > Education, Special Issue, 29(8), 1030-1044. > > I have also attached my English Education piece, which is a personal > reflection wherein I address tensions/contradictions in my own practices > and attempts to employ a critical pedagogy in my teacher education > classroom. > Berchini, C. (2014). Learning to teach and critical Pedagogy: Struggling > with a "Do as I say/ Not as I do" practice. English Education, 46(3), > 247-267. > > I also have a chapter in a book titled What Does It Mean to Be White in > America? Breaking the White Code of Silence, A Collection of Personal > Narratives. In this chapter, I address my personal experiences with > learning to understand my own racial identity development. (The other > essays in this volume might also be of interest to you, given that it > provides a series of "experiential texts" and can be bought on createspace > for $12 with this coupon code: GFGPQJ7S (case sensitive). > > Berchini, C. (2016). How to be white: A primer. In G. David & S.F. Forbes > (Eds.), What does it mean to be white in America? (pp. 45-58). New York, > NY: 2Leaf Press. > > I also wonder whether some of my published creative work might be useful > for you: > [1]Berchini, C. (2016). "School is what you make of it," and other lies my > parents told me. Empty Sink Publishing. Issue 17. > http://emptysinkpublishing.com/reality/4891-2/ > [2]Berchini, C. (2015, April 28). Why are all the teachers white? > Education Week Teacher. > http://www.edweek.org/tm/articles/2015/04/28/why-are-all-the-teachers-white.html > > 3. Richard Beach was kind enough to send a bibliography as well as a link > to an amazing Wiki ( > http://identities.pbworks.com/w/page/64216419/FrontPage) that he > developed in conjunction with his textbook, Identity-Focused ELA Teaching: > A Curriculum Framework for Diverse Learners and Contexts, by Richard Beach, > Anthony Johnston, and Amanda Haertling-Thein, published by Routledge Press > in March, 2015 in print and Kindle/Nook editions. > > One key focus is how students own identities constituted through different > discourses (Gee) and peer-group/community allegiances shape their responses > to texts, for example, discourses of race, class, or gender/sexuality (see > attached bibliography). > > 4. Ellen Scully-Russ, sent me an exercise "I use in my adult learning > class to help students to explore identity and identify formation:" > > Who am I? (Ask yourself this question at least 20 times and write down > your answer each time you ask the question.) > > Debrief/reflective questions > * Is there particular hierarchy or order to my identities? > * How are my identities aligned? > * How do my identities contradict? > * How do each of my identities influence my assumptions about > learning: what it is, how it occurs? > * How did I develop my identity(s)? > * What resources have I used to develop my identity (ies), and how > have I acquired these resources? > * How do my identities change? > * What is my sense of self? > > Again, a great thanks to all who replied. > -- > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:21 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Poems and > Works of Art?? > > My thanks for the many great suggestions of movies and academic works! > > I would also welcome suggestions of poems and works of graphic art that > seem to you to problematize the notion of identity. > > You're welcome to send suggestions off-line, and I'll compile and share > with XMCA. > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:05 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu) > Subject: [Xmca-l] Identity through "experiential texts" > > I'm preparing to teach a capstone graduate course for teachers-to-be that > includes a focus on identity. > The major assignment is a Personal Literacy Portfolio in which students > compile, organize, and discuss artifacts of their past in exploration of > their identity. The rationale is that this self-awareness of positioning > facilitates engagement with students of diverse cultural locations. > > I'm asking for suggestions of course resources. > Rather than a single course reader, I'm looking for "experiential > texts"-that is creative products in any medium that can help perturb > essentialist ideas of core identity in favor of a more complex, > poststructural view of identity as multiple and fragmented. Media can > include academic writing in psychology, sociology, philosophy; short > stories; poetry; film; works of art, etc. > > If you'd like to email me off-line (dkirsh@lsu.edu), > I'll send a compilation of all suggestions to XMCA. > > Below is a list of some experiential texts I'm already considering. > > David > > Walkerdine, V. (1990). Chapter 1: Sex, power and pedagogy. In V. > Walkerdine (Ed.), Schoolgirl fictions(pp. 3-15). London: Verso. Reprinted > from Screen Education, 38, 14-24, 1981. > > PBS Video: http://www.pbs.org/program/nine-months-that-made-you/ > 9 Months That Made You - How a person's individuality is developed, > including their sexuality > > Documentary on the life of a child kept without language for 13 years. > > https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/14/genie-feral-child-los-angeles-researchers > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjZolHCrC8E > > Movie: Enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_(2013_film) > The film stars Jake Gyllenhaal as two men who are physically identical, > but different in terms of personality. > > Gee, J. P. (2001). Identity as an analytic lens for research in education. > In W. G. Secada (Ed.), Review of Research in Education, 25 (pp. 3-56). > Washington, DC: American Educational Research Association. [identity = kind > of person one is recognized as being] > > Stremmel, A., Burns, J., Nganga, C., & Bertolini, K. (2015). Countering > the essentialized discourse of teacher education. Journal of Early > Childhood Teacher Education, 36(2), 156-174. [discussed in > http://www.tcrecord.org/Content.asp?ContentID=20275] > > > > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From rbeach@umn.edu Tue Aug 2 07:29:29 2016 From: rbeach@umn.edu (Richard Beach) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:29:29 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Summary of off-line responses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, thanks for sharing out these very useful resources. I didn?t find the attachments to your chapter or my bibliography in your email. More recently, I?ve focused on how identities are enacted through dialogic interactions drawing on ?enactivist,? "distributed language" theories?see the attached bibliography and draft report. Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media?literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core?State Standards , Apps for literacy?learning , Teaching about climate change > On Aug 2, 2016, at 5:04 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > In addition to the online suggestions and conversations, I received 4 off-line responses to my request for "experiential texts" that perturb notions of identity. Here is a summary of the off-line responses. > > This has been a wonderful shower of resources for me, greatly enriching the work I will do with our preservice teachers. > My thanks to all. > > David > > 1. Anna Stetsenko was kind enough to send me an article and link me to her work on identity as informed by Vygotsky, Freire and Bakhtin. > > Vianna, E., & Stetsenko, A. (2011). Connecting learning and identity development through a transformative activist stance: Application in adolescent development in a child welfare program. Human Development, 54, 313-338. > > This paper is based on a series of works on self/identity that can be found on my www.academia page or I could send some of them if you are interested. Some of these themes from these works have been taken up for example in Ian Burkitt, The social selves: Theories of Self and Society. > > 2. Christina Berchini kindly sent me three of her publications and links to further works that address race / identity / experience in some way. Christina is not part of XMCA, but was forwarded my request by Peter Smagorinsky -- thanks, Peter. > > I have attached a recent IJQS piece, in which I address teacher identity development. > Berchini, C. (2016). Structuring contexts: Pathways toward un-obstructing race-consciousness. International Journal of Qualitative Studies in Education, Special Issue, 29(8), 1030-1044. > > I have also attached my English Education piece, which is a personal reflection wherein I address tensions/contradictions in my own practices and attempts to employ a critical pedagogy in my teacher education classroom. > Berchini, C. (2014). Learning to teach and critical Pedagogy: Struggling with a "Do as I say/ Not as I do" practice. English Education, 46(3), 247-267. > > I also have a chapter in a book titled What Does It Mean to Be White in America? Breaking the White Code of Silence, A Collection of Personal Narratives. In this chapter, I address my personal experiences with learning to understand my own racial identity development. (The other essays in this volume might also be of interest to you, given that it provides a series of "experiential texts" and can be bought on createspace for $12 with this coupon code: GFGPQJ7S (case sensitive). > > Berchini, C. (2016). How to be white: A primer. In G. David & S.F. Forbes (Eds.), What does it mean to be white in America? (pp. 45-58). New York, NY: 2Leaf Press. > > I also wonder whether some of my published creative work might be useful for you: > [1]Berchini, C. (2016). "School is what you make of it," and other lies my parents told me. Empty Sink Publishing. Issue 17. http://emptysinkpublishing.com/reality/4891-2/ > [2]Berchini, C. (2015, April 28). Why are all the teachers white? Education Week Teacher. http://www.edweek.org/tm/articles/2015/04/28/why-are-all-the-teachers-white.html > > 3. Richard Beach was kind enough to send a bibliography as well as a link to an amazing Wiki (http://identities.pbworks.com/w/page/64216419/FrontPage) that he developed in conjunction with his textbook, Identity-Focused ELA Teaching: A Curriculum Framework for Diverse Learners and Contexts, by Richard Beach, Anthony Johnston, and Amanda Haertling-Thein, published by Routledge Press in March, 2015 in print and Kindle/Nook editions. > > One key focus is how students own identities constituted through different discourses (Gee) and peer-group/community allegiances shape their responses to texts, for example, discourses of race, class, or gender/sexuality (see attached bibliography). > > 4. Ellen Scully-Russ, sent me an exercise "I use in my adult learning class to help students to explore identity and identify formation:" > > Who am I? (Ask yourself this question at least 20 times and write down your answer each time you ask the question.) > > Debrief/reflective questions > * Is there particular hierarchy or order to my identities? > * How are my identities aligned? > * How do my identities contradict? > * How do each of my identities influence my assumptions about learning: what it is, how it occurs? > * How did I develop my identity(s)? > * What resources have I used to develop my identity (ies), and how have I acquired these resources? > * How do my identities change? > * What is my sense of self? > > Again, a great thanks to all who replied. > -- > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:21 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Poems and Works of Art?? > > My thanks for the many great suggestions of movies and academic works! > > I would also welcome suggestions of poems and works of graphic art that seem to you to problematize the notion of identity. > > You're welcome to send suggestions off-line, and I'll compile and share with XMCA. > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:05 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu) > Subject: [Xmca-l] Identity through "experiential texts" > > I'm preparing to teach a capstone graduate course for teachers-to-be that includes a focus on identity. > The major assignment is a Personal Literacy Portfolio in which students compile, organize, and discuss artifacts of their past in exploration of their identity. The rationale is that this self-awareness of positioning facilitates engagement with students of diverse cultural locations. > > I'm asking for suggestions of course resources. > Rather than a single course reader, I'm looking for "experiential texts"-that is creative products in any medium that can help perturb essentialist ideas of core identity in favor of a more complex, poststructural view of identity as multiple and fragmented. Media can include academic writing in psychology, sociology, philosophy; short stories; poetry; film; works of art, etc. > > If you'd like to email me off-line (dkirsh@lsu.edu), I'll send a compilation of all suggestions to XMCA. > > Below is a list of some experiential texts I'm already considering. > > David > > Walkerdine, V. (1990). Chapter 1: Sex, power and pedagogy. In V. Walkerdine (Ed.), Schoolgirl fictions(pp. 3-15). London: Verso. Reprinted from Screen Education, 38, 14-24, 1981. > > PBS Video: http://www.pbs.org/program/nine-months-that-made-you/ > 9 Months That Made You - How a person's individuality is developed, including their sexuality > > Documentary on the life of a child kept without language for 13 years. > https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/14/genie-feral-child-los-angeles-researchers > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjZolHCrC8E > > Movie: Enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_(2013_film) > The film stars Jake Gyllenhaal as two men who are physically identical, but different in terms of personality. > > Gee, J. P. (2001). Identity as an analytic lens for research in education. In W. G. Secada (Ed.), Review of Research in Education, 25 (pp. 3-56). Washington, DC: American Educational Research Association. [identity = kind of person one is recognized as being] > > Stremmel, A., Burns, J., Nganga, C., & Bertolini, K. (2015). Countering the essentialized discourse of teacher education. Journal of Early Childhood Teacher Education, 36(2), 156-174. [discussed in http://www.tcrecord.org/Content.asp?ContentID=20275] > > > > > From dkirsh@lsu.edu Tue Aug 2 07:56:47 2016 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 14:56:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Summary of off-line responses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Richard, I didn't forward any of the 6 attachments that folks sent to me, because I thought that would be too big a data dump for XMCA. But I've already had one off-line request, and I'm glad to send out any of the listed attachments to anyone who would like them. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Beach Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 9:29 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Summary of off-line responses David, thanks for sharing out these very useful resources. I didn?t find the attachments to your chapter or my bibliography in your email. More recently, I?ve focused on how identities are enacted through dialogic interactions drawing on ?enactivist,? "distributed language" theories?see the attached bibliography and draft report. Richard Beach, Professor Emeritus of English Education, University of Minnesota rbeach@umn.edu Websites: Digital writing , Media?literacy , Teaching literature , Identity-focused ELA Teaching , Common Core?State Standards , Apps for literacy?learning , Teaching about climate change > On Aug 2, 2016, at 5:04 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > In addition to the online suggestions and conversations, I received 4 off-line responses to my request for "experiential texts" that perturb notions of identity. Here is a summary of the off-line responses. > > This has been a wonderful shower of resources for me, greatly enriching the work I will do with our preservice teachers. > My thanks to all. > > David > > 1. Anna Stetsenko was kind enough to send me an article and link me to her work on identity as informed by Vygotsky, Freire and Bakhtin. > > Vianna, E., & Stetsenko, A. (2011). Connecting learning and identity development through a transformative activist stance: Application in adolescent development in a child welfare program. Human Development, 54, 313-338. > > This paper is based on a series of works on self/identity that can be found on my www.academia page or I could send some of them if you are interested. Some of these themes from these works have been taken up for example in Ian Burkitt, The social selves: Theories of Self and Society. > > 2. Christina Berchini kindly sent me three of her publications and links to further works that address race / identity / experience in some way. Christina is not part of XMCA, but was forwarded my request by Peter Smagorinsky -- thanks, Peter. > > I have attached a recent IJQS piece, in which I address teacher identity development. > Berchini, C. (2016). Structuring contexts: Pathways toward un-obstructing race-consciousness. International Journal of Qualitative Studies in Education, Special Issue, 29(8), 1030-1044. > > I have also attached my English Education piece, which is a personal reflection wherein I address tensions/contradictions in my own practices and attempts to employ a critical pedagogy in my teacher education classroom. > Berchini, C. (2014). Learning to teach and critical Pedagogy: Struggling with a "Do as I say/ Not as I do" practice. English Education, 46(3), 247-267. > > I also have a chapter in a book titled What Does It Mean to Be White in America? Breaking the White Code of Silence, A Collection of Personal Narratives. In this chapter, I address my personal experiences with learning to understand my own racial identity development. (The other essays in this volume might also be of interest to you, given that it provides a series of "experiential texts" and can be bought on createspace for $12 with this coupon code: GFGPQJ7S (case sensitive). > > Berchini, C. (2016). How to be white: A primer. In G. David & S.F. Forbes (Eds.), What does it mean to be white in America? (pp. 45-58). New York, NY: 2Leaf Press. > > I also wonder whether some of my published creative work might be useful for you: > [1]Berchini, C. (2016). "School is what you make of it," and other > lies my parents told me. Empty Sink Publishing. Issue 17. > http://emptysinkpublishing.com/reality/4891-2/ > [2]Berchini, C. (2015, April 28). Why are all the teachers white? > Education Week Teacher. > http://www.edweek.org/tm/articles/2015/04/28/why-are-all-the-teachers- > white.html > > 3. Richard Beach was kind enough to send a bibliography as well as a link to an amazing Wiki (http://identities.pbworks.com/w/page/64216419/FrontPage) that he developed in conjunction with his textbook, Identity-Focused ELA Teaching: A Curriculum Framework for Diverse Learners and Contexts, by Richard Beach, Anthony Johnston, and Amanda Haertling-Thein, published by Routledge Press in March, 2015 in print and Kindle/Nook editions. > > One key focus is how students own identities constituted through different discourses (Gee) and peer-group/community allegiances shape their responses to texts, for example, discourses of race, class, or gender/sexuality (see attached bibliography). > > 4. Ellen Scully-Russ, sent me an exercise "I use in my adult learning class to help students to explore identity and identify formation:" > > Who am I? (Ask yourself this question at least 20 times and write down > your answer each time you ask the question.) > > Debrief/reflective questions > * Is there particular hierarchy or order to my identities? > * How are my identities aligned? > * How do my identities contradict? > * How do each of my identities influence my assumptions about learning: what it is, how it occurs? > * How did I develop my identity(s)? > * What resources have I used to develop my identity (ies), and how have I acquired these resources? > * How do my identities change? > * What is my sense of self? > > Again, a great thanks to all who replied. > -- > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:21 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Identity through "experiential texts": Poems and Works of Art?? > > My thanks for the many great suggestions of movies and academic works! > > I would also welcome suggestions of poems and works of graphic art that seem to you to problematize the notion of identity. > > You're welcome to send suggestions off-line, and I'll compile and share with XMCA. > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David H Kirshner > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:05 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu) > Subject: [Xmca-l] Identity through "experiential texts" > > I'm preparing to teach a capstone graduate course for teachers-to-be that includes a focus on identity. > The major assignment is a Personal Literacy Portfolio in which students compile, organize, and discuss artifacts of their past in exploration of their identity. The rationale is that this self-awareness of positioning facilitates engagement with students of diverse cultural locations. > > I'm asking for suggestions of course resources. > Rather than a single course reader, I'm looking for "experiential texts"-that is creative products in any medium that can help perturb essentialist ideas of core identity in favor of a more complex, poststructural view of identity as multiple and fragmented. Media can include academic writing in psychology, sociology, philosophy; short stories; poetry; film; works of art, etc. > > If you'd like to email me off-line (dkirsh@lsu.edu), I'll send a compilation of all suggestions to XMCA. > > Below is a list of some experiential texts I'm already considering. > > David > > Walkerdine, V. (1990). Chapter 1: Sex, power and pedagogy. In V. Walkerdine (Ed.), Schoolgirl fictions(pp. 3-15). London: Verso. Reprinted from Screen Education, 38, 14-24, 1981. > > PBS Video: http://www.pbs.org/program/nine-months-that-made-you/ > 9 Months That Made You - How a person's individuality is developed, including their sexuality > > Documentary on the life of a child kept without language for 13 years. > https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/14/genie-feral-child-los- > angeles-researchers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjZolHCrC8E > > Movie: Enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_(2013_film) > The film stars Jake Gyllenhaal as two men who are physically identical, but different in terms of personality. > > Gee, J. P. (2001). Identity as an analytic lens for research in > education. In W. G. Secada (Ed.), Review of Research in Education, 25 > (pp. 3-56). Washington, DC: American Educational Research Association. > [identity = kind of person one is recognized as being] > > Stremmel, A., Burns, J., Nganga, C., & Bertolini, K. (2015). > Countering the essentialized discourse of teacher education. Journal > of Early Childhood Teacher Education, 36(2), 156-174. [discussed in > http://www.tcrecord.org/Content.asp?ContentID=20275] > > > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 09:09:28 2016 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 11:09:28 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> Message-ID: It seems, though that a very interesting question to encounter is: how is permanence (whether as "appearance" or as a "reality" - I don't really care) constituted in everyday life? Or perhaps, what are the processes by which ity's are held in place? -greg On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 8:50 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Rein, > Thank you for the correction. I am wondering if the sentence you corrected > and what follows it is related to the definition of continuity in the > calculus. The logic is not from finite math. The continuity may be an > illusion, but real, in the same way that Santa Claus may be? > Henry > > > > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > > > > Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly > digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in exactly > the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > > > >> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: > >> > >> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential > unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the > individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a > perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less > complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather > than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. > >> > >> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the > bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining > ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as > fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are > conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is > not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and > "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So > existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the > rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a > little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. > There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than > the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something > produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, > but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there > (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we > meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said > uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we > define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities > that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework > diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it > would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular > sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is > not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. > >> > >> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the > combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very > productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently > avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually > be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William > Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically > necessary. > >> > >> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one > (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything > changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The > philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that > anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. > That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of > qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by > themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any > thing is not self-identical at two given moments. > >> > >> With best wishes, > >> > >> Rein > >> > >>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck < > schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein > >>> writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking > to > >>> the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down > the > >>> candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less > complicated > >>> in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with > how > >>> they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way > (being so > >>> uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being > >>> manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either > >>> Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the > "cash > >>> value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's > rather > >>> than their -ness's. > >>> > >>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris > >>> > >>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: > >>> > >>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this > >>>> thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up > copy-pasting > >>>> a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we > can > >>>> define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we > speak > >>>> about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that > ?change? can > >>>> only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point > is, > >>>> this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of > change > >>>> from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite > >>>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating > around > >>>> the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We > can > >>>> imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so > that > >>>> it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and > does not > >>>> move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same > angle > >>>> seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves > around > >>>> its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. > It is > >>>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the > >>>> primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. > And > >>>> that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some > >>>> calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll > just > >>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? > How is > >>>> changed detected? And from who's point of view? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge > change. > >>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the > >>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which > can also > >>>> change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the > world is > >>>> illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in > play, > >>>> whether we understand those laws or not. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to > >>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked > exceptions). > >>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same > >>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 > years > >>>> ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't > have > >>>> yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" > And I > >>>> would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change > >>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that > there > >>>> must be a stationary point regardless. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change > >>>> can be detected. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest > that, > >>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing > exists. As > >>>> in no thing. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent > >>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything > that is > >>>> here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the > >>>> thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It > >>>> doesn't present itself, whatever it is. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in > time > >>>> and space? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only > >>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, > >>>> change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to > >>>> Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means > that the > >>>> change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary > >>>> "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are > dealing > >>>> with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying > to > >>>> conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it > because we > >>>> are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and > space as > >>>> reference points. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty > expansive > >>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to > >>>> cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space > and > >>>> time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is > >>>> existence. Which is. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Right here right now. :) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Kind regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Annalisa > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that > post > >>>> of his. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > > > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 09:30:30 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:30:30 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> Message-ID: <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> Gente, Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-violence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.? It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical Buddhist terrorism? What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative collaboration. Thank you, Vera. Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > > Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > >> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >> >> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >> >> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >> >> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. >> >> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Rein >> >>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>> >>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein >>> writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking to >>> the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down the >>> candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less complicated >>> in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with how >>> they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so >>> uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being >>> manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either >>> Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash >>> value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather >>> than their -ness's. >>> >>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>> >>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this >>>> thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up copy-pasting >>>> a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we can >>>> define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we speak >>>> about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that ?change? can >>>> only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point is, >>>> this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change >>>> from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >>>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating around >>>> the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We can >>>> imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so that >>>> it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and does not >>>> move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle >>>> seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around >>>> its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is >>>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the >>>> primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. And >>>> that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some >>>> calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll just >>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? How is >>>> changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which can also >>>> change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the world is >>>> illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in play, >>>> whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same >>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 years >>>> ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't have >>>> yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" And I >>>> would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change >>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that there >>>> must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change >>>> can be detected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest that, >>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing exists. As >>>> in no thing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent >>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything that is >>>> here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the >>>> thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It >>>> doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in time >>>> and space? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only >>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, >>>> change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to >>>> Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means that the >>>> change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary >>>> "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are dealing >>>> with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying to >>>> conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we >>>> are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as >>>> reference points. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty expansive >>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to >>>> cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space and >>>> time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>> existence. Which is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Annalisa >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that post >>>> of his. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 09:32:23 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:32:23 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Greg, Magic. Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 10:09 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > It seems, though that a very interesting question to encounter is: how is > permanence (whether as "appearance" or as a "reality" - I don't really > care) constituted in everyday life? > > Or perhaps, what are the processes by which ity's are held in place? > > -greg > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 8:50 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> Rein, >> Thank you for the correction. I am wondering if the sentence you corrected >> and what follows it is related to the definition of continuity in the >> calculus. The logic is not from finite math. The continuity may be an >> illusion, but real, in the same way that Santa Claus may be? >> Henry >> >> >>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly >> digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in exactly >> the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR >>> >>>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >>>> >>>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential >> unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the >> individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a >> perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less >> complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather >> than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >>>> >>>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the >> bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining >> ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as >> fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are >> conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is >> not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and >> "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So >> existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the >> rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a >> little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. >> There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than >> the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something >> produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, >> but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there >> (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we >> meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said >> uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we >> define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities >> that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework >> diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it >> would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular >> sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is >> not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >>>> >>>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the >> combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very >> productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently >> avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually >> be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William >> Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically >> necessary. >>>> >>>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one >> (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything >> changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The >> philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that >> anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. >> That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of >> qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by >> themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any >> thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >>>> >>>> With best wishes, >>>> >>>> Rein >>>> >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck < >> schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when Rein >>>>> writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not speaking >> to >>>>> the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts to pin down >> the >>>>> candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide what is less >> complicated >>>>> in a good way (that allows us to evaluate the candidates in tune with >> how >>>>> they are as people and future presidents) as opposed to a bad way >> (being so >>>>> uncomplicated that you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being >>>>> manipulated), and what are the implications of appealing to either >>>>> Trump-ity or Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the >> "cash >>>>> value" of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's >> rather >>>>> than their -ness's. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of this >>>>>> thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up >> copy-pasting >>>>>> a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I don?t think we >> can >>>>>> define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at all, and I?d suggest we >> speak >>>>>> about impermanence instead. You are quite correct saying that >> ?change? can >>>>>> only be detected and described in regard of something else. The point >> is, >>>>>> this something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of >> change >>>>>> from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >>>>>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating >> around >>>>>> the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in movement. We >> can >>>>>> imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves around in space so >> that >>>>>> it is exactly at the same distance from the Earth at all times and >> does not >>>>>> move around its own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same >> angle >>>>>> seen from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves >> around >>>>>> its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. >> It is >>>>>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume the >>>>>> primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this scheme. >> And >>>>>> that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs stability - some >>>>>> calculations are less complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but I'll >> just >>>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? >> How is >>>>>> changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge >> change. >>>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >>>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which >> can also >>>>>> change). But I think the definition still holds that even if the >> world is >>>>>> illusory, and our perception changes too, there are laws still in >> play, >>>>>> whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked >> exceptions). >>>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the same >>>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 >> years >>>>>> ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I didn't >> have >>>>>> yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you really know that?" >> And I >>>>>> would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if change >>>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that >> there >>>>>> must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before change >>>>>> can be detected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest >> that, >>>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing >> exists. As >>>>>> in no thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the apparent >>>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything >> that is >>>>>> here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. Which means the >>>>>> thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in time and space. It >>>>>> doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in >> time >>>>>> and space? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because only >>>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive it, >>>>>> change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then thanks to >>>>>> Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. Which means >> that the >>>>>> change of time and space must be dependent upon some other stationary >>>>>> "point" as-if outside of time and space. I say as-if because we are >> dealing >>>>>> with a container metaphor, but this metaphor doesn't work when trying >> to >>>>>> conceive something outside of time and space. Be we can use it >> because we >>>>>> are human and this is how we reason about things, using time and >> space as >>>>>> reference points. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty >> expansive >>>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big to >>>>>> cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of space >> and >>>>>> time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>>>> existence. Which is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Annalisa >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to that >> post >>>>>> of his. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Aug 2 10:24:31 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:24:31 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Position in Development at NYU (open-rank) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A real job, it appears. mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marjorie Rhodes Date: Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:43 AM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Position in Development at NYU (open-rank) To: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org New York University Faculty Position in Cognition and Perception (Development) Department of Psychology Arts and Science The Department of Psychology in Arts and Science at New York University invites applications for an open-rank, tenured or tenure-track position in Development. The appointment is expected to begin September 1, 2017, pending budgetary and administrative approval. We seek applicants with outstanding records of programmatic research in developmental psychology. Teaching duties will include undergraduate and graduate courses as well as Ph.D. research supervision. It is required that candidates for the junior level position will have completed all requirements for the Ph.D. by the start date of the appointment. To apply, see the ?Job Openings? link on the NYU Department of Psychology web site, http://www.psych.nyu.edu/. Review of applications will begin on October 1, 2016, and continue until the position is filled. The application should include a CV, statements of research and teaching interests, representative publications, and at least three references. The Faculty of Arts and Science at NYU is at the heart of a leading research university that spans the globe. We seek scholars of the highest caliber, who embody the diversity of the United States as well as the global society in which we live. We strongly encourage applications from women, racial and ethnic minorities, and other individuals who are under-represented in the profession, across color, creed, race, ethnic and national origin, physical ability, gender and sexual identity, or any other legally protected basis. NYU affirms the value of differing perspectives on the world as we strive to build the strongest possible university with the widest reach. To learn more about the FAS commitment to diversity, equality and inclusion, please read http://as.nyu.edu/page/diversityinitiative. EOE/AA/Minorities/Females/Vet/Disabled/Sexual Orientation/Gender Identity. Marjorie Rhodes Associate Professor of Psychology New York University 6 Washington Place, rm. 301 New York, NY 10003 212-998-3546 http://www.psych.nyu.edu/rhodes/index.html _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From dkirsh@lsu.edu Tue Aug 2 10:53:53 2016 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 17:53:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> Message-ID: Henry, There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil society. But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and this factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent interpretation of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic terrorism is a rare phenomenon. Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested in independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be quite small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in murder and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another are considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is distributed. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity Gente, Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-violence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.? It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical Buddhist terrorism? What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative collaboration. Thank you, Vera. Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > > Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly > digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in > exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > >> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >> >> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >> >> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >> >> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. >> >> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Rein >> >>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>> >>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when >>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not >>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts >>> to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide >>> what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to evaluate >>> the candidates in tune with how they are as people and future >>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that you >>> end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), and >>> what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or >>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" >>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather than their -ness's. >>> >>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>> >>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of >>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up >>>> copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I >>>> don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at >>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are >>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and >>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this something >>>> else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change from a >>>> third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >>>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating >>>> around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in >>>> movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves >>>> around in space so that it is exactly at the same distance from the >>>> Earth at all times and does not move around its own axis so that >>>> the Earth is always also at the same angle seen from it. For >>>> someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around its axis, >>>> but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is >>>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume >>>> the primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this >>>> scheme. And that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs >>>> stability - some calculations are less complicated. With best >>>> wishes, Rein >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but >>>>> I'll just >>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? >>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which >>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even >>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there are >>>> laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the >>>>> same >>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 >>>> years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I >>>> didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you >>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if >>>>> change >>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that >>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before >>>>> change >>>> can be detected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest >>>>> that, >>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing >>>> exists. As in no thing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the >>>>> apparent >>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything >>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. >>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in >>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in >>>>> time >>>> and space? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because >>>>> only >>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive >>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then >>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. >>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent >>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. >>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but >>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something >>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human >>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as reference points. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty >>>>> expansive >>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big >>>> to cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of >>>> space and time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>> existence. Which is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Annalisa >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to >>>>> that post >>>> of his. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > From annalisa@unm.edu Tue Aug 2 11:02:07 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 18:02:07 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee>, Message-ID: Hello! In considering the definition of impermanence that Rein offered, there are two things I'd like to point out. First is that I agree that in the apparent world that we live in everything changes. But how we detect it depends upon having some stationary point, even if that point is in motion itself, the change is relative to something else. We are comparing this with that. But no matter what this is or that is, the is-ness remains present. The properties change, but the is-ness does not. I don't think this reality we find ourselves has anything to do with human mind. It is independent of human mind, because to say it is dependent upon human mind is not only anthropocentric (which is why Copernicus was a big deal), it means that our mind is entirely responsible for creating the world that we perceive. We know that that isn't true. (Well, it's true for The Donald!) We know there is a world "out there," but we can't perceive it in its entirety. We know that the world existed before we were born, and will continue without us when the body drops. We know that because we can reason it out from watching all that was left behind by those that came before, and that they are not here to tell us where they went. Just because we lack the means to perceive the world (instrumentally or cognitively) doesn't mean it isn't there. It is apparently there or there or there, I cannot dismiss it just by thinking "it's not here." Also, from a different way to think about the world beyond perception, I think it is reasonable to consider in this infinite universe that there is at least one planet similar to ours that could support life. But I cannot determine that through my perceptive means. I don't know if that means I believe in little green men. But it is also true that the mind as a tool for perception and reasoning can play tricks upon us, but that has to do with imaginations and conceptual play, such as seeing Santa Claus on the corner in July. You know, this actually happened to me last month. :) I kid you not. There was a man dressed in a Santa suit standing on the corner waiting to cross the street in the heat. It was beautiful performance art (to me). Santa Claus does exist, but his existence has particular properties that people argue about, but that he exists is true because otherwise we would not be talking about him at all. Considering the power of the mind, I suppose mental illness derives from not being able to make sense of confusions and apparent contradictions, either happening in the mind or in the world, or both. And so the mind remains in a state of confusion, which is an inimical state of mind, full of doubts. Perhaps this is why we cringe when watching The Donald. So that's my first point. My second point: In consideration of impermanence, a word that itself depends upon the word "permanence," even to say "nothing is forever" is itself a sentence that depends upon "is-ness." Still, taking away the linguistic argument, it is impossible to think of nothing without is-ness. Try. And so even when considering no-thing, existence remains. Even a gap *is*. This is why existence isn't a thing, for the reason it does not change. It is how we can detect change, it is the only truly true thing-that-is-not-a-thing. I say this in this construct "thing-that-is-not-a-thing" because of the limits of our language, not because of limits of what is real. By saying it that way I can reference "something" that everyone can determine on one's own, independent of the words. No matter what we do, we can't change existence and we cannot dismiss it. It remains. The only things that can be dismissed are things themselves and their properties, and of course the words that reference them. On the other hand, existence is neither a thing, nor does it have properties, it is beyond time and space, but it is what all things depend upon (in order to exist!). So, no, change is not opposed to stability. Change depends upon stability. That stability is existence. I'm grateful for this exchange, because of what it makes possible, which I hope is community, inclusive of change and inclusive of sharing great thoughts. At this point, I still think it's important to consider what to do in this election as citizens so we can continue having these discussions, if only for the reason that they vitally lack Trump-ity! Kind regards, Annalisa From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 11:12:02 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:12:02 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> Message-ID: David, Good points. At the same time, take the Protestant Reformation and the push back from the Catholic church that resulted in slaughter all over Europe. Maybe the rule still holds that religious differences have been harder on apostates than on non-believers. Sort of. I am now thinking of what has happened to indigenous people (non-believers) all over the world when colonization hit. Devastating. Hmmm? Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Henry, > > There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil society. But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and this factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. > > In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent interpretation of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic terrorism is a rare phenomenon. > > Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested in independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be quite small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in murder and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. > > Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another are considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is distributed. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity > > Gente, > Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-violence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region > > Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.? > > It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical Buddhist terrorism? > > What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative collaboration. Thank you, Vera. > > Henry > > > > >> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: >> >> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more thoroughly >> digested definition would state that nothing we can point to is in >> exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR >> >>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >>> >>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >>> >>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. >>> >>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >>> >>> With best wishes, >>> >>> Rein >>> >>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>> >>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when >>>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not >>>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our efforts >>>> to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we decide >>>> what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to evaluate >>>> the candidates in tune with how they are as people and future >>>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that you >>>> end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), and >>>> what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or >>>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" >>>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather than their -ness's. >>>> >>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>>> >>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>>> >>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of >>>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end up >>>>> copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, I >>>>> don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at >>>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are >>>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and >>>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this something >>>>> else is itself always undergoing some other kind of change from a >>>>> third point of view, and so on. The stationary point is quite >>>>> arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth is rotating >>>>> around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, but also in >>>>> movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body which moves >>>>> around in space so that it is exactly at the same distance from the >>>>> Earth at all times and does not move around its own axis so that >>>>> the Earth is always also at the same angle seen from it. For >>>>> someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves around its axis, >>>>> but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves around it. It is >>>>> just that certain calculations are less complicated when we assume >>>>> the primacy of the Sun as the center of the solar system in this >>>>> scheme. And that?s how we end up with notions such as change vs >>>>> stability - some calculations are less complicated. With best >>>>> wishes, Rein >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but >>>>>> I'll just >>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? >>>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is the >>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which >>>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even >>>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there are >>>>> laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the >>>>>> same >>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of 7 >>>>> years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb I >>>>> didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you >>>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if >>>>>> change >>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that >>>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before >>>>>> change >>>>> can be detected. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest >>>>>> that, >>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing >>>>> exists. As in no thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the >>>>>> apparent >>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything >>>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. >>>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in >>>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in >>>>>> time >>>>> and space? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because >>>>>> only >>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive >>>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then >>>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. >>>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent >>>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. >>>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but >>>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something >>>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human >>>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as reference points. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty >>>>>> expansive >>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be big >>>>> to cover all of space and time. But because it would be outside of >>>>> space and time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>>> existence. Which is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Annalisa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to >>>>>> that post >>>>> of his. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> > > From dkirsh@lsu.edu Tue Aug 2 11:20:28 2016 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 18:20:28 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> Message-ID: Of course, Henry. When uncivil fundamentalist beliefs are embraced by the hierarchy of a centralized religion the results are horrific. These are the hard lessons that led in most Western traditions to the separation of church and state. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 1:12 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity David, Good points. At the same time, take the Protestant Reformation and the push back from the Catholic church that resulted in slaughter all over Europe. Maybe the rule still holds that religious differences have been harder on apostates than on non-believers. Sort of. I am now thinking of what has happened to indigenous people (non-believers) all over the world when colonization hit. Devastating. Hmmm? Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Henry, > > There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil society. But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and this factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. > > In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent interpretation of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic terrorism is a rare phenomenon. > > Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested in independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be quite small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in murder and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. > > Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another are considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is distributed. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs > politicalconstructions of identity > > Gente, > Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-vio > lence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&modu > le=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav > =opinion-c-col-right-region > olence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&mod > ule=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.na > v=opinion-c-col-right-region> > > Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.? > > It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical Buddhist terrorism? > > What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative collaboration. Thank you, Vera. > > Henry > > > > >> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: >> >> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more >> thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point >> to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR >> >>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >>> >>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >>> >>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. >>> >>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >>> >>> With best wishes, >>> >>> Rein >>> >>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>> >>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when >>>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not >>>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our >>>> efforts to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we >>>> decide what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to >>>> evaluate the candidates in tune with how they are as people and >>>> future >>>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that >>>> you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), >>>> and what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or >>>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" >>>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather than their -ness's. >>>> >>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>>> >>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>>> >>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of >>>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end >>>>> up copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, >>>>> I don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at >>>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are >>>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and >>>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this >>>>> something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of >>>>> change from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point >>>>> is quite arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth >>>>> is rotating around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, >>>>> but also in movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body >>>>> which moves around in space so that it is exactly at the same >>>>> distance from the Earth at all times and does not move around its >>>>> own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle seen >>>>> from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves >>>>> around its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves >>>>> around it. It is just that certain calculations are less >>>>> complicated when we assume the primacy of the Sun as the center of >>>>> the solar system in this scheme. And that?s how we end up with >>>>> notions such as change vs stability - some calculations are less >>>>> complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but >>>>>> I'll just >>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? >>>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is >>>>>> the >>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which >>>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even >>>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there >>>>> are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the >>>>>> same >>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of >>>>> 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb >>>>> I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you >>>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if >>>>>> change >>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that >>>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before >>>>>> change >>>>> can be detected. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest >>>>>> that, >>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing >>>>> exists. As in no thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the >>>>>> apparent >>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything >>>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. >>>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in >>>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in >>>>>> time >>>>> and space? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because >>>>>> only >>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive >>>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then >>>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. >>>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent >>>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. >>>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but >>>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something >>>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human >>>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as reference points. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty >>>>>> expansive >>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be >>>>> big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be >>>>> outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>>> existence. Which is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Annalisa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to >>>>>> that post >>>>> of his. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >> > > From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 11:23:25 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:23:25 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> Thank god! > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > Of course, Henry. > When uncivil fundamentalist beliefs are embraced by the hierarchy of a centralized religion the results are horrific. > These are the hard lessons that led in most Western traditions to the separation of church and state. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 1:12 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity > > David, > Good points. At the same time, take the Protestant Reformation and the push back from the Catholic church that resulted in slaughter all over Europe. Maybe the rule still holds that religious differences have been harder on apostates than on non-believers. Sort of. I am now thinking of what has happened to indigenous people (non-believers) all over the world when colonization hit. Devastating. Hmmm? Henry > > >> On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: >> >> Henry, >> >> There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil society. But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and this factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. >> >> In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent interpretation of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic terrorism is a rare phenomenon. >> >> Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested in independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be quite small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in murder and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. >> >> Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another are considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is distributed. >> >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD >> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs >> politicalconstructions of identity >> >> Gente, >> Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-vio >> lence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&modu >> le=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav >> =opinion-c-col-right-region >> > olence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&mod >> ule=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.na >> v=opinion-c-col-right-region> >> >> Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.? >> >> It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical Buddhist terrorism? >> >> What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative collaboration. Thank you, Vera. >> >> Henry >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: >>> >>> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more >>> thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point >>> to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR >>> >>>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >>>> >>>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >>>> >>>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >>>> >>>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically necessary. >>>> >>>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >>>> >>>> With best wishes, >>>> >>>> Rein >>>> >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck wrote: >>>>> >>>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when >>>>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not >>>>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our >>>>> efforts to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we >>>>> decide what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to >>>>> evaluate the candidates in tune with how they are as people and >>>>> future >>>>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that >>>>> you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), >>>>> and what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or >>>>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" >>>>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather than their -ness's. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of >>>>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end >>>>>> up copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, >>>>>> I don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at >>>>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are >>>>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and >>>>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this >>>>>> something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of >>>>>> change from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point >>>>>> is quite arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth >>>>>> is rotating around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, >>>>>> but also in movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body >>>>>> which moves around in space so that it is exactly at the same >>>>>> distance from the Earth at all times and does not move around its >>>>>> own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle seen >>>>>> from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves >>>>>> around its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves >>>>>> around it. It is just that certain calculations are less >>>>>> complicated when we assume the primacy of the Sun as the center of >>>>>> the solar system in this scheme. And that?s how we end up with >>>>>> notions such as change vs stability - some calculations are less >>>>>> complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but >>>>>>> I'll just >>>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? >>>>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge change. >>>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is >>>>>>> the >>>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which >>>>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even >>>>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there >>>>>> are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked exceptions). >>>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the >>>>>>> same >>>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of >>>>>> 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb >>>>>> I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you >>>>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the question?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if >>>>>>> change >>>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that >>>>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before >>>>>>> change >>>>>> can be detected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest >>>>>>> that, >>>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing >>>>>> exists. As in no thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the >>>>>>> apparent >>>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything >>>>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. >>>>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in >>>>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in >>>>>>> time >>>>>> and space? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because >>>>>>> only >>>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive >>>>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then >>>>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. >>>>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent >>>>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. >>>>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but >>>>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something >>>>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human >>>>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as reference points. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty >>>>>>> expansive >>>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be >>>>>> big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be >>>>>> outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and changeless. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>>>> existence. Which is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Annalisa >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to >>>>>>> that post >>>>>> of his. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Aug 2 11:31:21 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 11:31:21 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank What, Henry? mike To repeat the question from Valery via Bauman: can the human mind master what the human mind has made? mike On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:23 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Thank god! > > > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > > > Of course, Henry. > > When uncivil fundamentalist beliefs are embraced by the hierarchy of a > centralized religion the results are horrific. > > These are the hard lessons that led in most Western traditions to the > separation of church and state. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 1:12 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs > politicalconstructions of identity > > > > David, > > Good points. At the same time, take the Protestant Reformation and the > push back from the Catholic church that resulted in slaughter all over > Europe. Maybe the rule still holds that religious differences have been > harder on apostates than on non-believers. Sort of. I am now thinking of > what has happened to indigenous people (non-believers) all over the world > when colonization hit. Devastating. Hmmm? Henry > > > > > >> On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > >> > >> Henry, > >> > >> There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious > belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil society. > But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and this > factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. > >> > >> In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a > hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent interpretation > of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic > terrorism is a rare phenomenon. > >> > >> Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested in > independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be quite > small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in murder > and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large > denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by > concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. > >> > >> Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in > religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. > What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true > knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another are > considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the > religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist > interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more > responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns > out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is > distributed. > >> > >> David > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs > >> politicalconstructions of identity > >> > >> Gente, > >> Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: > >> > >> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-vio > >> lence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&modu > >> le=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav > >> =opinion-c-col-right-region > >> >> olence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&mod > >> ule=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.na > >> v=opinion-c-col-right-region> > >> > >> Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the > end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a > reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to > modernity.? > >> > >> It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians > with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got > dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the > same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, > kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, > I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on > modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political > constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the > same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is > that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some > defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical > Buddhist terrorism? > >> > >> What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go > with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, > aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative > collaboration. Thank you, Vera. > >> > >> Henry > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > >>> > >>> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more > >>> thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point > >>> to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > >>> > >>>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential > unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the > individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a > perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less > complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather > than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. > >>>> > >>>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the > bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining > ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as > fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are > conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is > not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and > "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So > existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the > rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a > little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. > There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than > the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something > produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, > but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there > (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we > meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said > uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we > define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities > that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework > diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it > would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular > sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is > not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. > >>>> > >>>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore > the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very > productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently > avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually > be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William > Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically > necessary. > >>>> > >>>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one > (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything > changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The > philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that > anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. > That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of > qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by > themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any > thing is not self-identical at two given moments. > >>>> > >>>> With best wishes, > >>>> > >>>> Rein > >>>> > >>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck < > schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when > >>>>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not > >>>>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our > >>>>> efforts to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we > >>>>> decide what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to > >>>>> evaluate the candidates in tune with how they are as people and > >>>>> future > >>>>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that > >>>>> you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), > >>>>> and what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or > >>>>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" > >>>>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather > than their -ness's. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of > >>>>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end > >>>>>> up copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, > >>>>>> I don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at > >>>>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are > >>>>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and > >>>>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this > >>>>>> something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of > >>>>>> change from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point > >>>>>> is quite arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth > >>>>>> is rotating around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, > >>>>>> but also in movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body > >>>>>> which moves around in space so that it is exactly at the same > >>>>>> distance from the Earth at all times and does not move around its > >>>>>> own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle seen > >>>>>> from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves > >>>>>> around its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves > >>>>>> around it. It is just that certain calculations are less > >>>>>> complicated when we assume the primacy of the Sun as the center of > >>>>>> the solar system in this scheme. And that?s how we end up with > >>>>>> notions such as change vs stability - some calculations are less > >>>>>> complicated. With best wishes, Rein > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but > >>>>>>> I'll just > >>>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? > >>>>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge > change. > >>>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which > >>>>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even > >>>>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there > >>>>>> are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to > >>>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked > exceptions). > >>>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the > >>>>>>> same > >>>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of > >>>>>> 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb > >>>>>> I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you > >>>>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the > question?" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if > >>>>>>> change > >>>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that > >>>>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before > >>>>>>> change > >>>>>> can be detected. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest > >>>>>>> that, > >>>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing > >>>>>> exists. As in no thing. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the > >>>>>>> apparent > >>>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything > >>>>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. > >>>>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in > >>>>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in > >>>>>>> time > >>>>>> and space? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because > >>>>>>> only > >>>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive > >>>>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then > >>>>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. > >>>>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent > >>>>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. > >>>>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but > >>>>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something > >>>>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human > >>>>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as > reference points. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty > >>>>>>> expansive > >>>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be > >>>>>> big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be > >>>>>> outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and > changeless. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is > >>>>>> existence. Which is. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Right here right now. :) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Kind regards, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Annalisa > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to > >>>>>>> that post > >>>>>> of his. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From hshonerd@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 11:51:06 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:51:06 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mike, Ha! Notice that I didn?t capitalize god. YOU capitalized What. I hope my humor isn?t falling flat. In fact, I have been quoting, ad nauseum to my poor wife and anyone else who will listen, Valery (via Bauman, via you) since you posted the quote: Can the mind master what the human mind has made? It seems to me that the chat is doing its part, in part, to address that question by addressing the dilemma via Bosch you end all your posts with: It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Am I wrong in thinking that both the question and the dilemma are very much connected to the subject line of our current dialog? I stumbled on the term ?High Modernity? the other day. I think that is a way we don?t want to go, and perhaps knowing where not to go is a good start to address the question and the dilemma. If this seems overreaching, blame it on the subject line. Henry > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:31 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Thank What, Henry? > mike > > To repeat the question from Valery via Bauman: > > can the human mind master what the human mind has made? > > mike > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:23 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > >> Thank god! >> >>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: >>> >>> Of course, Henry. >>> When uncivil fundamentalist beliefs are embraced by the hierarchy of a >> centralized religion the results are horrific. >>> These are the hard lessons that led in most Western traditions to the >> separation of church and state. >>> David >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 1:12 PM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs >> politicalconstructions of identity >>> >>> David, >>> Good points. At the same time, take the Protestant Reformation and the >> push back from the Catholic church that resulted in slaughter all over >> Europe. Maybe the rule still holds that religious differences have been >> harder on apostates than on non-believers. Sort of. I am now thinking of >> what has happened to indigenous people (non-believers) all over the world >> when colonization hit. Devastating. Hmmm? Henry >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: >>>> >>>> Henry, >>>> >>>> There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious >> belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil society. >> But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and this >> factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. >>>> >>>> In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a >> hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent interpretation >> of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic >> terrorism is a rare phenomenon. >>>> >>>> Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested in >> independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be quite >> small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in murder >> and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large >> denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by >> concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. >>>> >>>> Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in >> religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. >> What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true >> knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another are >> considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the >> religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist >> interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more >> responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns >> out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is >> distributed. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs >>>> politicalconstructions of identity >>>> >>>> Gente, >>>> Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: >>>> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-vio >>>> lence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&modu >>>> le=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav >>>> =opinion-c-col-right-region >>>> >>> olence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&mod >>>> ule=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.na >>>> v=opinion-c-col-right-region> >>>> >>>> Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at the >> end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone through a >> reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to >> modernity.? >>>> >>>> It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians >> with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got >> dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the >> same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, >> kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When analyzed, >> I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack on >> modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political >> constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in the >> same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, is >> that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some >> defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence radical >> Buddhist terrorism? >>>> >>>> What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go >> with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of ethics, >> aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative >> collaboration. Thank you, Vera. >>>> >>>> Henry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more >>>>> thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point >>>>> to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR >>>>> >>>>>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential >> unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the >> individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a >> perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less >> complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates rather >> than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. >>>>>> >>>>>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the >> bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are defining >> ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as >> fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are >> conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is >> not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? and >> "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. So >> existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the >> rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a >> little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. >> There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky than >> the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something >> produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be true, >> but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing there >> (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we >> meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of said >> uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we >> define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial entities >> that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework >> diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it >> would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular >> sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it is >> not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our mind?. >>>>>> >>>>>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore >> the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very >> productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently >> avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will actually >> be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William >> Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not logically >> necessary. >>>>>> >>>>>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one >> (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, everything >> changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The >> philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that >> anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two moments. >> That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of >> qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by >> themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, any >> thing is not self-identical at two given moments. >>>>>> >>>>>> With best wishes, >>>>>> >>>>>> Rein >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck < >> schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when >>>>>>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not >>>>>>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our >>>>>>> efforts to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we >>>>>>> decide what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to >>>>>>> evaluate the candidates in tune with how they are as people and >>>>>>> future >>>>>>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that >>>>>>> you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), >>>>>>> and what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or >>>>>>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" >>>>>>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather >> than their -ness's. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of >>>>>>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end >>>>>>>> up copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, >>>>>>>> I don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at >>>>>>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are >>>>>>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and >>>>>>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this >>>>>>>> something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of >>>>>>>> change from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point >>>>>>>> is quite arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth >>>>>>>> is rotating around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, >>>>>>>> but also in movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body >>>>>>>> which moves around in space so that it is exactly at the same >>>>>>>> distance from the Earth at all times and does not move around its >>>>>>>> own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle seen >>>>>>>> from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves >>>>>>>> around its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves >>>>>>>> around it. It is just that certain calculations are less >>>>>>>> complicated when we assume the primacy of the Sun as the center of >>>>>>>> the solar system in this scheme. And that?s how we end up with >>>>>>>> notions such as change vs stability - some calculations are less >>>>>>>> complicated. With best wishes, Rein >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but >>>>>>>>> I'll just >>>>>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of change? >>>>>>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge >> change. >>>>>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which >>>>>>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even >>>>>>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there >>>>>>>> are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to >>>>>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked >> exceptions). >>>>>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of >>>>>>>> 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb >>>>>>>> I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you >>>>>>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the >> question?" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that >>>>>>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> can be detected. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing >>>>>>>> exists. As in no thing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the >>>>>>>>> apparent >>>>>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything >>>>>>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. >>>>>>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in >>>>>>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in >>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> and space? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because >>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive >>>>>>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then >>>>>>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. >>>>>>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent >>>>>>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and space. >>>>>>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but >>>>>>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something >>>>>>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human >>>>>>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as >> reference points. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty >>>>>>>>> expansive >>>>>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be >>>>>>>> big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be >>>>>>>> outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and >> changeless. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is >>>>>>>> existence. Which is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right here right now. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Annalisa >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to >>>>>>>>> that post >>>>>>>> of his. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From lpscholar2@gmail.com Tue Aug 2 12:27:09 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:27:09 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vspoliticalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57a0f414.0d52620a.32529.ca9a@mx.google.com> Annalisa, As I try to grasp that which is not gaspable I reflect on *is-ness* and *is-ity*. This is the difference between thing-in-itself AND no-thing-in-itself (is-ness) with the contrast no-ESSENTIAL-thing-in-itself (is-ity). I am hearing Rein channel Dogen as I say *this* and in the next moment in this continuity *this* will meta/morph. To Obama indicating that some aspects of Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism have side-stepped modernity, I return to Zygmunts focus on moral *blindness* as a loss of sensitivity. Now does Obama?s version of modernity amplify sensitivity or is his version implicated in the techno logical loss of our human-ity? Mike, not to just *go with the flow* or stand solid as the river torrent flows by. The notion of *disposition* as a moral *illumination* or *inspiration* or *ity* that addresses or speaks to the *blindness* of modern liquid-ity. Is Buddha-ity a disposition generating the *truth* of impermanence that does not posit a structural permanence as its opposite. The difference between structural and thematic ways/paths/dispositions. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: HENRY SHONERD From annalisa@unm.edu Tue Aug 2 12:28:12 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 19:28:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> , Message-ID: Hello, >From what I can see, in light of the recent discussion of religions and their impact upon society has to do with this function of categories and the idea that these categories are 1) the only (allowed) categories; and 2) nothing can exist beyond them. If there are entities which exist beyond these categories, somehow they fall into yet another category that is an observance to somehow their existence. It is the non-category category. I think this is a serious problem borne by religious practice that requires sober consideration, because the difference between moderates and fundamentalists illustrates a spectrum of, on the one side, that these rejects can be rehabilitated or assimilated into "worthy" categories, or, on the other side, they must be destroyed. It's a matter of degree. I can appreciate that this would cause many to reject the basis of a given religion, which would be God, however a god might be rendered. Given the atrocious history of Western Europe there is every reason to question that kind of god, and its basis for existing as such, if such a god causes people to act they way that they have. "God made me do it." This is why, perhaps, the discussion of LBGT is revelatory. Gayness is a perfect example of how, as a "non-category," it is typically handled. Assimilate or reject. But over time, sexual-identities are solidifying into "acceptable" categories. Acceptance of transgendered citizens will be the real test, I suppose, because transgender defies all category making of those who would make them in to one. It is my sense that we will live in a more perfect union when we can let go the categories once and for all. Meaning to change the subject (not the subject line), this is also noteworthy: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/02/barack-obama-donald-trump-president-republican-party Obama has come down not only on Trump as being unfit, but he has called into question Republican leaders who denounce Trump's words, but they do not denounce the man as being unfit for the job. It feels like a revealing of an open secret we have always known, that Republicans do not need a person there to act as President unless it is just an act as President, and that is why Trump is a viable Republican nominee. How else can this be explained? For them, there is no Being President just appearing as one. Kind regards, Annalisa From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Aug 2 12:30:17 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:30:17 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Henry- god Only knows? Yes, the Valery and the Boesch are related, but not reducible to each other. mike On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:51 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Mike, > Ha! Notice that I didn?t capitalize god. YOU capitalized What. I hope my > humor isn?t falling flat. > > In fact, I have been quoting, ad nauseum to my poor wife and anyone else > who will listen, Valery (via Bauman, via you) since you posted the quote: > > Can the mind master what the human mind has made? > > It seems to me that the chat is doing its part, in part, to address that > question by addressing the dilemma via Bosch you end all your posts with: > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object that creates history. > > Am I wrong in thinking that both the question and the dilemma are very > much connected to the subject line of our current dialog? I stumbled on the > term ?High Modernity? the other day. I think that is a way we don?t want to > go, and perhaps knowing where not to go is a good start to address the > question and the dilemma. > > If this seems overreaching, blame it on the subject line. > > Henry > > > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:31 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Thank What, Henry? > > mike > > > > To repeat the question from Valery via Bauman: > > > > can the human mind master what the human mind has made? > > > > mike > > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:23 AM, HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > > > >> Thank god! > >> > >>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > >>> > >>> Of course, Henry. > >>> When uncivil fundamentalist beliefs are embraced by the hierarchy of a > >> centralized religion the results are horrific. > >>> These are the hard lessons that led in most Western traditions to the > >> separation of church and state. > >>> David > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto: > >> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 1:12 PM > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs > >> politicalconstructions of identity > >>> > >>> David, > >>> Good points. At the same time, take the Protestant Reformation and the > >> push back from the Catholic church that resulted in slaughter all over > >> Europe. Maybe the rule still holds that religious differences have been > >> harder on apostates than on non-believers. Sort of. I am now thinking of > >> what has happened to indigenous people (non-believers) all over the > world > >> when colonization hit. Devastating. Hmmm? Henry > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David H Kirshner wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Henry, > >>>> > >>>> There certainly are commonalities among all fundamentalist religious > >> belief systems that make adherents potentially dangerous to civil > society. > >> But religions differ in how they distribute religious authority, and > this > >> factor can affect how widespread uncivil action is likely to become. > >>>> > >>>> In the case of Catholicism, authority is rigorously organized in a > >> hierarchy under a single leader, the pope. Thus independent > interpretation > >> of fundamentalist belief is quite tightly constrained, and Catholic > >> terrorism is a rare phenomenon. > >>>> > >>>> Protestantism is more decentralized, with religious authority vested > in > >> independent denominations. In some cases, these denominations can be > quite > >> small, and this has produced some cult worship that has resulted in > murder > >> and suicide. But the vast majority of adherents are organized into large > >> denominations in which fundamentalist interpretations are modulated by > >> concerns of fitting into a broader civil society. > >>>> > >>>> Islam is highly decentralized. Anyone who is sufficiently schooled in > >> religious texts can proclaim himself an imam and establish a following. > >> What is more, religious convention holds that all imams have true > >> knowledge. Thus differences in interpretation from one imam to another > are > >> considered part of an ineffable variety of a common truth. Thus the > >> religion has almost no internal mechanisms for control of fundamentalist > >> interpretation. When President Obama calls upon Muslims to take more > >> responsibility for uncivil interpretations of their religion, this turns > >> out to be very difficult to accomplish given the way authority is > >> distributed. > >>>> > >>>> David > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > >>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:31 AM > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs > >>>> politicalconstructions of identity > >>>> > >>>> Gente, > >>>> Please forgive my beating a dead horse, but for me it isn?t dead yet: > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-vio > >>>> lence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&modu > >>>> le=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav > >>>> =opinion-c-col-right-region > >>>> < > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-religion-can-lead-to-vi > >>>> olence.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&mod > >>>> ule=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.na > >>>> v=opinion-c-col-right-region> > >>>> > >>>> Particularly interesting to me is the quote from President Obama at > the > >> end of the linked article: ?Some currents of Islam have not gone > through a > >> reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to > >> modernity.? > >>>> > >>>> It seems to me that the Trump band wagon is populated by Christians > >> with the same problem. (This of course, isn?t original. Duh! Obama got > >> dinged for his ?guns and Bibles? comment, which to me is saying much the > >> same thing.) So-called Christians, in the same way as so-called Muslims, > >> kill in the name of a revealed truth, mostly other Muslims. When > analyzed, > >> I wonder if most mass shootings in this country are basically an attack > on > >> modernity, motivated by essentialist notions of selfhood and political > >> constructions of reality. So that radical Islamic terrrorism exists in > the > >> same way as radical Christian terrorism. What is ALWAYS true, it seems, > is > >> that such terrorism is harder on apostates than non-believers. Even some > >> defenders of Buddh-ism have killed in the name of the Buddha, hence > radical > >> Buddhist terrorism? > >>>> > >>>> What I have gotten most from this subject line is how projects can go > >> with the flow of modernity and yet touch the philosophical bases of > ethics, > >> aesthetics, epistemology and ontogeny. As always I go back to creative > >> collaboration. Thank you, Vera. > >>>> > >>>> Henry > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Correction to the last paragraph: "The philosophically more > >>>>> thoroughly digested definition would state that nothing we can point > >>>>> to is in exactly the same state at any two moments.? Best, RR > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 02 Aug 2016, at 06:52, Rein Raud wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris - spot on. Remember where this thread started: both essential > >> unity and essential categoriality are infringements on the ity of the > >> individual, who cannot be wholly identified with either. But either is a > >> perspective from which candidates can make their calculations seem less > >> complicated. I?d say we need not address the ity?s of the candidates > rather > >> than how their politics are likely to affect our our own. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Annalisa - replace ?stable? and ?stationary? in my posts with the > >> bulkier ?what doesn?t change? and I?ll still sign them. So you are > defining > >> ?change? as opposed to stability. Morevoer, most of what you describe as > >> fundamental only exists in the human mind. Western languages indeed are > >> conducive to an understanding of the world you have described, but it is > >> not the only possible one. You say ?things exist before they are named? > and > >> "we can remove all things in [space and time], and existence remains?. > So > >> existence is also a thing? Western languages consider sentences as ?the > >> rose is red? and ?the sky is blue? to be equivalent, but if you look a > >> little more closely, ?rose? and ?sky? are ontologically quite different. > >> There is no such thing as the sky. And existence is more like the sky > than > >> the rose. Just like the referents of negative sentences, it is something > >> produced by the mind. ?There are no rusty nails in this soup? may be > true, > >> but if it is, then only in our reflection, because there is no thing > there > >> (?absence-of-rusty-nails?) that is described by this observation. So we > >> meaningfully say ?Uncle Harry exists? to point out the difference of > said > >> uncle with Santa Claus, who doesn?t. (Or doesn?t he? A matter of how we > >> define existence. For example, if we grant existence to immaterial > entities > >> that can be the causes of real processes, and a child does her homework > >> diligently because of Santa Claus, while otherwise she wouldn?t, then it > >> would be legitiamate to say that Santa Claus exists.) In this particular > >> sense, the word ?existence? performs the work of a double negative: ?it > is > >> not the case that uncle Harry is nothing but a construction of our > mind?. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Saying that constituents exist before their combination, therefore > >> the combination exists before it actually comes into being is not very > >> productive. There are multitudes of ways how to combine the currently > >> avaialble physical objects and only a minuscule part of these will > actually > >> be realized. This is what is called ?Occam?s razor? according to William > >> Occam (14th century): we should not posit existences that are not > logically > >> necessary. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Impermanence can be defined at least on two levels: the popular one > >> (call it ?impermanence light?) insists that nothing is forever, > everything > >> changes, everything that exists turns into something else. The > >> philosophically more thoroughly digested definition would state that > >> anything we can point to is in exactly the same state at any two > moments. > >> That is, even the briefest duration separates two exhaustive sets of > >> qualities that characterize this thing. As no qualities are essential by > >> themselves, and no differences in degree are essential by themselves, > any > >> thing is not self-identical at two given moments. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> With best wishes, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Rein > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 22:10, Christopher Schuck < > >> schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> All these explanations are very helpful - thank you. So then when > >>>>>>> Rein writes, "some calculations are less complicated," is this not > >>>>>>> speaking to the specifically epistemological priority of our > >>>>>>> efforts to pin down the candidates' essences? On what basis do we > >>>>>>> decide what is less complicated in a good way (that allows us to > >>>>>>> evaluate the candidates in tune with how they are as people and > >>>>>>> future > >>>>>>> presidents) as opposed to a bad way (being so uncomplicated that > >>>>>>> you end up missing the truth entirely and/or being manipulated), > >>>>>>> and what are the implications of appealing to either Trump-ity or > >>>>>>> Trump-ness, respectively? I am trying to parse out the "cash value" > >>>>>>> of understanding these candidates in terms of their -ity's rather > >> than their -ness's. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorry if some of this may be redundant. Chris > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Monday, August 1, 2016, Rein Raud wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Annalisa, I?m afraid we stray too far from the original topic of > >>>>>>>> this thread if we get much deeper into ontology, and I would end > >>>>>>>> up copy-pasting a lot from a book I am currently writing. Briefly, > >>>>>>>> I don?t think we can define ?change? as opposed to ?stability? at > >>>>>>>> all, and I?d suggest we speak about impermanence instead. You are > >>>>>>>> quite correct saying that ?change? can only be detected and > >>>>>>>> described in regard of something else. The point is, this > >>>>>>>> something else is itself always undergoing some other kind of > >>>>>>>> change from a third point of view, and so on. The stationary point > >>>>>>>> is quite arbitrary. Most people currently believe that the Earth > >>>>>>>> is rotating around the Sun. However, the Sun is not stationary, > >>>>>>>> but also in movement. We can imagine a hypothetical celestial body > >>>>>>>> which moves around in space so that it is exactly at the same > >>>>>>>> distance from the Earth at all times and does not move around its > >>>>>>>> own axis so that the Earth is always also at the same angle seen > >>>>>>>> from it. For someone on this celestial body, the Earth moves > >>>>>>>> around its axis, but is otherwise stationary, while the Sun moves > >>>>>>>> around it. It is just that certain calculations are less > >>>>>>>> complicated when we assume the primacy of the Sun as the center of > >>>>>>>> the solar system in this scheme. And that?s how we end up with > >>>>>>>> notions such as change vs stability - some calculations are less > >>>>>>>> complicated. With best wishes, Rein > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 01 Aug 2016, at 20:11, Annalisa Aguilar >>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Larry, my questions are straightforward, as I stated them, but > >>>>>>>>> I'll just > >>>>>>>> reiterate that I was asking is what is Rein's definition of > change? > >>>>>>>> How is changed detected? And from who's point of view? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> In the end, there must be something stationary in order to gauge > >> change. > >>>>>>>> Whether in time or in space. Otherwise no change can be detected. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Now Chris brings up an interesting extra to this that there is > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> reality "out there" changing, and then our perception of it (which > >>>>>>>> can also change). But I think the definition still holds that even > >>>>>>>> if the world is illusory, and our perception changes too, there > >>>>>>>> are laws still in play, whether we understand those laws or not. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> For a law to adhere it must hold for all cases, or, in homage to > >>>>>>>> Einstein, in those cases relative to it (which would be marked > >> exceptions). > >>>>>>>> I consider a law as a stationary point. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It's not pure chaos out there. When I wake up I wake up in the > >>>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>> body, even though there is a cellular distinction from my body of > >>>>>>>> 7 years ago. I don't wake up as someone else or with an extra limb > >>>>>>>> I didn't have yesterday. Now someone could ask, "Well how do you > >>>>>>>> really know that?" And I would say, "Well, how can you ask the > >> question?" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Something has to be stationary for change to happen. Even if > >>>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>> happens faster or slower, the point I'm attempting to make is that > >>>>>>>> there must be a stationary point regardless. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Something must be (stationary), before it can change or before > >>>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>> can be detected. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I would say existence is the "center." I think Buddhists contest > >>>>>>>>> that, > >>>>>>>> which is fine. I know that that is how they see it, that nothing > >>>>>>>> exists. As in no thing. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And in some ways they are right if you are talking about the > >>>>>>>>> apparent > >>>>>>>> world and the thingness that makes a thing a thing. But everything > >>>>>>>> that is here has is-ness, not thing-ness. Otherwise it is not. > >>>>>>>> Which means the thing-ness that isn't thing-ness isn't present in > >>>>>>>> time and space. It doesn't present itself, whatever it is. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> How does one detect change of something (anything) that is not in > >>>>>>>>> time > >>>>>>>> and space? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> First, I'd say whatever this non-thing is, can't change, because > >>>>>>>>> only > >>>>>>>> things in time and in space change. On earth as we humans perceive > >>>>>>>> it, change appears to be dependent upon time and space. But then > >>>>>>>> thanks to Einstein, now we know that even time and space change. > >>>>>>>> Which means that the change of time and space must be dependent > >>>>>>>> upon some other stationary "point" as-if outside of time and > space. > >>>>>>>> I say as-if because we are dealing with a container metaphor, but > >>>>>>>> this metaphor doesn't work when trying to conceive something > >>>>>>>> outside of time and space. Be we can use it because we are human > >>>>>>>> and this is how we reason about things, using time and space as > >> reference points. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Anyway, whatever that "point" is, it would have to be pretty > >>>>>>>>> expansive > >>>>>>>> and eternal in all directions, in all time. It would have to be > >>>>>>>> big to cover all of space and time. But because it would be > >>>>>>>> outside of space and time, it would also have to be formless and > >> changeless. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Take away form (space) and change (time) and all that is left is > >>>>>>>> existence. Which is. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Right here right now. :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Kind regards, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Annalisa > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> P.S. I see that Rein post just now, so this is not in reply to > >>>>>>>>> that post > >>>>>>>> of his. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From annalisa@unm.edu Tue Aug 2 12:33:00 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 19:33:00 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> <3CD29DAC-B2DE-4813-BA56-FC02F7B7E746@gmail.com> , , Message-ID: Sorry a typo: I meant to say: 2) nothing can exist beyond them. If there are entities which exist beyond these categories, somehow they fall into yet another category that is an observance to somehow REJECT their existence. It is the non-category category. that word "reject" was missing. Otherwise the sentence doesn't follow..; Cheers, Annalisa ________________________________ Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 1:28 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vs politicalconstructions of identity Hello, >From what I can see, in light of the recent discussion of religions and their impact upon society has to do with this function of categories and the idea that these categories are 1) the only (allowed) categories; and 2) nothing can exist beyond them. If there are entities which exist beyond these categories, somehow they fall into yet another category that is an observance to somehow their existence. It is the non-category category. I think this is a serious problem borne by religious practice that requires sober consideration, because the difference between moderates and fundamentalists illustrates a spectrum of, on the one side, that these rejects can be rehabilitated or assimilated into "worthy" categories, or, on the other side, they must be destroyed. It's a matter of degree. I can appreciate that this would cause many to reject the basis of a given religion, which would be God, however a god might be rendered. Given the atrocious history of Western Europe there is every reason to question that kind of god, and its basis for existing as such, if such a god causes people to act they way that they have. "God made me do it." This is why, perhaps, the discussion of LBGT is revelatory. Gayness is a perfect example of how, as a "non-category," it is typically handled. Assimilate or reject. But over time, sexual-identities are solidifying into "acceptable" categories. Acceptance of transgendered citizens will be the real test, I suppose, because transgender defies all category making of those who would make them in to one. It is my sense that we will live in a more perfect union when we can let go the categories once and for all. Meaning to change the subject (not the subject line), this is also noteworthy: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/02/barack-obama-donald-trump-president-republican-party Obama has come down not only on Trump as being unfit, but he has called into question Republican leaders who denounce Trump's words, but they do not denounce the man as being unfit for the job. It feels like a revealing of an open secret we have always known, that Republicans do not need a person there to act as President unless it is just an act as President, and that is why Trump is a viable Republican nominee. How else can this be explained? For them, there is no Being President just appearing as one. Kind regards, Annalisa From annalisa@unm.edu Tue Aug 2 16:32:13 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 23:32:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vspoliticalconstructions of identity In-Reply-To: <57a0f414.0d52620a.32529.ca9a@mx.google.com> References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> , <57a0f414.0d52620a.32529.ca9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Larry! I hope you are not gasping to grasp that which isn't an object but upon which all objects depend. Essence is a peculiar concept. I was looking at it in the dictionary and it has to do with what is real as opposed to what is phenomenal, accidental, or illusory. But the word is also used in relation to spiritual notions, as pertaining to an immaterial entity. So what is peculiar to me is its definition as both substantial and non-substantial. These appear to us to be opposite, don't they. If we consider capitalism as a religion of modernity, then what does it look like, to consider the other religions (and their categories) in terms of how they overlay upon (or beneath) capitalism? I'd say that the religion of capitalism does not possess an ethics pertaining to the integrity of cultures and of peoples, which other religions seem to do, unless these cultures and peoples already possess ethics that coincide with the cultures and peoples who (can) advance the religion of capitalism. Perhaps this is why Republican values can be as they are, and why it is possible to nominate Trump who can say very unethical things that deeply hurt people's feelings who have personal and emotional connection to religious practice (and identity). As far as Buddha-ity as a disposition generating "truth", I'd call that knowledge, rather than enlightenment. But the generation of the disposition is a cognitive event, but the truth is perennial and not dependent upon human minds. It could be called the "aha!" moment, that moment of recognition of what is, as it is. Sitting on the river bank! Kind regards, Annalisa From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Aug 3 10:19:13 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Larry Purss) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 10:19:13 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of self vspoliticalconstructionsof identity In-Reply-To: References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> , <57a0f414.0d52620a.32529.ca9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57a2275b.86a2420a.66d47.b7a8@mx.google.com> Annalisa, I am entering into Rein?s 14 page encounter with Dogen and trying to grasp with their shared words the felt sense of *ity* indicating a way that radically shifts notions of *essence*. Today, with Rein as author, I am dwelling with the meaning of *arising* within *ity* which questions the *tree* metaphor of superstructure and substructure through categories, classes, and hierarchy. To stay on topic, Zygmunt?s indicating modernity is shape shifting from solid/ITY to liquid/ITY is the conversation that Rein and Zygmunt are addressing. Not clear where I am being *carried* but I do not feel I am a bystander. Something is occurring (arising) that generates a way through [within] the pathless path. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Annalisa Aguilar From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Aug 3 22:46:26 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 22:46:26 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Political constructions of selfvspoliticalconstructionsof identity In-Reply-To: <57a2275b.86a2420a.66d47.b7a8@mx.google.com> References: <2BF0C091-E3F2-4A7E-AA3E-5668C87FE101@tlu.ee> <10B5ED9B-CC7F-4260-AA3B-B1E9B4C31120@gmail.com> , <57a0f414.0d52620a.32529.ca9a@mx.google.com> <57a2275b.86a2420a.66d47.b7a8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57a2d6b8.0568620a.50835.33b8@mx.google.com> To continue to explore alternative notions of self and identity. Earlier Paul Kockleman was referenced in his article ?The Semiotic Stance?. In that article (page 237) Paul references Mead and his concept of *interaction* being a *third*. Kockleman says to reference a *third* is an abstraction and is also a *general* notion. Keep in view that Rein is questioning if general phenomena actually *exist* so I present Mead?s general perspective with Reid in view as an open question. To turn to Mead?s generality: All *interactions* are *thirds*. If all interactions are thirds than *any particular* interaction is a *third*. Mead gives the example of pulling back my fist (1st phase of an action or SIGN). You ducking is a reaction or INTERPRETANT *insofar* as my next move (second phase of possible action or OBJECT) *would be* to punch you. Notice that the OBJECT does not yet *exist* Kockleman then *generalizes* this *particular* example to say *any interaction is a third* whose sign is the 1st phase of a *controlled* behaviour. The behavior is *revealed* as controlled behavior by the spatiotemporal *location* and physical form of the 1st phase AND whose interpretant is another?s reaction which takes (grasps) the 2nd phase of the controlled behavior *into account*. By this grasping the *object* (2nd phase) into account this *object* can be *likened to* (semblance) a *purpose* Insofar as this *object* is (not yet but could be) *actualized* ( be existant). This likening of - (object) (2nd) (purpose) (not yet but could be) - as the general 2nd phase of *controlled* interaction is a particular way or mode of accounting for semiosis as *thirds* To now return to Rein and Dogen and *ity* as something *kenritsu* which is a key notion of *ity*. *Kenritsu* is often translated as *arising*. Rein points out that (kenritsu) has often been translated as *forming* as *construction* and left untranslated. Rein says all these solutions to refer to (kenritsu) are problematic because the term (kenritsu) should not be used to refer to something that *pre-exists* becoming manifest, or even worse, kenritsu being given its shape by some other agent. Even *becoming* is not really a correct word for (kenritsu) because this word hints of finality ? arriving at the endpoint of a transformative process. But (kenritsu) ? becoming itself (the ity) never stops, is never reached in a *tangible* final form Moving back to Mead and objects (as 2nds) that *appear* as *purposes* or *goal directed* Rein offers a Japanese word (genjo) for goal-oriented approaches. I will pause here with an open question of self and identity as implicated within *control/able* thirds including objects being likened to *purposes* AND contrasting this (mode) with Dogen?s notion of *ity* (arising) that is not form, construction, or becoming that reaches an end point. Arriving at a place of reflection Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Larry Purss From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Aug 4 07:57:10 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 07:57:10 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Meaning extended from index to Correspondence Message-ID: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> We have been exploring identity and subjectivity and selfhood. In relation to a few themes: ? We have been exploring perezhivanie and this phenomena expressing *meaning* ? James Ma shifts the focus to *potential* in (meaning) potential ? In relation to James Ma?s contribution we turned to Paul Kockleman and the Semiotic Stance. ? The semiotic stance has classically referred to an indexical relation of a sign standing for an object ? Kockleman expands the classical semiotic stance to always being (thirds). Thirds include double relations of (standing for): The sign standing for the object AND the sign standing for the interpretant in a double relation of (standing for) which expands from (2nds indexical) to (thirds corresponding) ? An example is the correspondence of pronouns (you) (me) (it). Me as I Stand in relation to it and Me as I stand in relation to you. In such a way that you stand in relation to it and you stand in relation to me in a double relation of standing for that (corresponds). The object?s relation to both you and to I correspond as (thirds) which is general and abstract. ? Rein introduced (ity) as (arising) phenomena that do not exist as objects (in potential) or as objects with (essence). All is impermanence as thematic NOT STRUCTURALLY opposite to permanence or stability or solidity. (ity) has existence as arising when the *now* HAS arrived. This arising of existents do not exist in potential. (ity) is also not under an agents *control*. Arising phenomena exist as momentary things materially but radically particular and idio/syncretic. ? Ity is not general Sent from my Windows 10 phone From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 4 09:50:45 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:50:45 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Funded PhD position in Social Attention In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: great topic for the right person mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Martin Doherty (PSY) Date: Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:44 AM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Funded PhD position in Social Attention To: "cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org" Dear all, We would be very grateful if potential EU or UK PhD students were made aware of the following Leverhulme-funded PhD position: http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AOH888/phd-studentship-examining-the-mechanisms- underpinning-shared-attention/ We are particularly keen to explore the developmental aspects of the project. Deadline 9th September 2016. Start date 3rd January 2017. Potential applicants are more than welcome to contact the PI Andrew Bayliss or myself directly - Andrew.P.Bayliss@uea.ac.uk or martin.doherty@uea.ac.uk The value of the studentship is fixed to cover maintenance and fees at EU/UK rates. Interested international applicants are welcome to contact me to discuss financial details. Best wishes, Martin Doherty. _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From dkellogg60@gmail.com Thu Aug 4 14:54:34 2016 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 06:54:34 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Meaning extended from index to Correspondence In-Reply-To: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> References: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> Message-ID: A colleague of mine down the hall is working on the translation of the Platform Sutra of the eighth century Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Huineng was the first Buddhist patriarch who could neither read nor write, and (more importantly) the Platform Sutra is the historical moment when Buddhism became a religious option for the illiterate masses of China. It is a written text, but it is a written account of speaking, and it is written to be spoken. One way in which Christianity became a religious option for the illiterate masses was through simple, narrativistic artforms, such as the mosaics of San Marco in Venice, or the icons of Russia. Buddhists have this too--there has already been some discussion here on the ox pictures (there is, by the way, a beautiful text that goes with the pictures, and there is a place on the lintel of most temples in Korea where the pictures with their exegesis can be seen). In one of our books we use the ox pictures for Vygotsky's account of the six periods and five crises in which the child's personality arises. But that's not what my colleague is doing. She is using two pictures by the same twelfth century artist Liang Kai. They adorn different translations of the Platform Sutra, and each has a specific relation to the way the Platform Sutra has been translated. In one, the patriarch is at eye level and he is tearing up the previous sutras in disgust, a roguish gleam in his eye and his tongue protruding in fun. In the other, the patriarch is kneeling to cut bamboo (which he did for many years before being recognized as a patriarch) and we see the top of his head. The idea is that eye-level and from above represent two different camera angles and two different stances towards the represented object: one of which is egalitarian and the other of which is authoritarian. There are two other relevant systems of interpersonal meaning: the "shot" (close up or distant) and the "gaze" (direct or avoidant). Now, these systems are all meaningful: "shot" is about the relation of text to context, and "gaze" is about willingness to engage withe the participants.As for the system of "angle", it expresses the power relation between the viewer and the Sixth Patriarch. I think this is somewhat anachronistic--Chinese painting is more like calligraphy than like cinematography. I also don't think that my colleague's systems are textual systems, because they don't have a lexicogrammar: the meanings are not encoded in symbols but rather, as with child proto-language, more directly in indexes. What they lack is precisely "correspondence"--a relationship that can be uncoupled and recoupled in different ways, a relationship which involves "realization" in both senses, because as the content is encoded in expression it is "realized" in the sense of being made material, and as the expression is coded as content it is "realized" in the sense of being made aware, or being made awareable. Instead, they are attempts to get around language, or anyway, to get around written language, and make the fundamental insight of common Buddha-nature part of the everyday garb of the illiterate masses (awearable?) David Kellogg Macquarie University On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Lplarry wrote: > We have been exploring identity and subjectivity and selfhood. > In relation to a few themes: > ? We have been exploring perezhivanie and this phenomena expressing > *meaning* > ? James Ma shifts the focus to *potential* in (meaning) potential > ? In relation to James Ma?s contribution we turned to Paul Kockleman and > the Semiotic Stance. > ? The semiotic stance has classically referred to an indexical relation of > a sign standing for an object > ? Kockleman expands the classical semiotic stance to always being > (thirds). Thirds include double relations of (standing for): The sign > standing for the object AND the sign standing for the interpretant in a > double relation of (standing for) which expands from (2nds indexical) to > (thirds corresponding) > ? An example is the correspondence of pronouns (you) (me) (it). Me as I > Stand in relation to it and Me as I stand in relation to you. In such a way > that you stand in relation to it and you stand in relation to me in a > double relation of standing for that (corresponds). The object?s relation > to both you and to I correspond as (thirds) which is general and abstract. > ? Rein introduced (ity) as (arising) phenomena that do not exist as > objects (in potential) or as objects with (essence). All is impermanence > as thematic NOT STRUCTURALLY opposite to permanence or stability or > solidity. (ity) has existence as arising when the *now* HAS arrived. This > arising of existents do not exist in potential. (ity) is also not under an > agents *control*. Arising phenomena exist as momentary things materially > but radically particular and idio/syncretic. > ? Ity is not general > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From hshonerd@gmail.com Thu Aug 4 17:10:40 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 18:10:40 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Meaning extended from index to Correspondence In-Reply-To: References: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4502043E-3D75-4399-BC58-D8C73B70852B@gmail.com> David, Nice! But I am curious about what (awearable?) is doing at the end of your post. You can?t put on the Buddha nature? Henry > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:54 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > A colleague of mine down the hall is working on the translation of the > Platform Sutra of the eighth century Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Huineng was > the first Buddhist patriarch who could neither read nor write, and (more > importantly) the Platform Sutra is the historical moment when Buddhism > became a religious option for the illiterate masses of China. It is a > written text, but it is a written account of speaking, and it is written to > be spoken. > > One way in which Christianity became a religious option for the illiterate > masses was through simple, narrativistic artforms, such as the mosaics of > San Marco in Venice, or the icons of Russia. Buddhists have this too--there > has already been some discussion here on the ox pictures (there is, by the > way, a beautiful text that goes with the pictures, and there is a place on > the lintel of most temples in Korea where the pictures with their exegesis > can be seen). In one of our books we use the ox pictures for Vygotsky's > account of the six periods and five crises in which the child's personality > arises. > > But that's not what my colleague is doing. She is using two pictures by the > same twelfth century artist Liang Kai. They adorn different translations of > the Platform Sutra, and each has a specific relation to the way the > Platform Sutra has been translated. In one, the patriarch is at eye level > and he is tearing up the previous sutras in disgust, a roguish gleam in his > eye and his tongue protruding in fun. In the other, the patriarch is > kneeling to cut bamboo (which he did for many years before being recognized > as a patriarch) and we see the top of his head. > > The idea is that eye-level and from above represent two different camera > angles and two different stances towards the represented object: one of > which is egalitarian and the other of which is authoritarian. There are two > other relevant systems of interpersonal meaning: the "shot" (close up or > distant) and the "gaze" (direct or avoidant). Now, these systems are all > meaningful: "shot" is about the relation of text to context, and "gaze" is > about willingness to engage withe the participants.As for the system of > "angle", it expresses the power relation between the viewer and the Sixth > Patriarch. > > I think this is somewhat anachronistic--Chinese painting is more like > calligraphy than like cinematography. I also don't think that my > colleague's systems are textual systems, because they don't have a > lexicogrammar: the meanings are not encoded in symbols but rather, as with > child proto-language, more directly in indexes. What they lack is precisely > "correspondence"--a relationship that can be uncoupled and recoupled in > different ways, a relationship which involves "realization" in both senses, > because as the content is encoded in expression it is "realized" in the > sense of being made material, and as the expression is coded as content it > is "realized" in the sense of being made aware, or being made awareable. > Instead, they are attempts to get around language, or anyway, to get around > written language, and make the fundamental insight of common Buddha-nature > part of the everyday garb of the illiterate masses (awearable?) > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Lplarry wrote: > >> We have been exploring identity and subjectivity and selfhood. >> In relation to a few themes: >> ? We have been exploring perezhivanie and this phenomena expressing >> *meaning* >> ? James Ma shifts the focus to *potential* in (meaning) potential >> ? In relation to James Ma?s contribution we turned to Paul Kockleman and >> the Semiotic Stance. >> ? The semiotic stance has classically referred to an indexical relation of >> a sign standing for an object >> ? Kockleman expands the classical semiotic stance to always being >> (thirds). Thirds include double relations of (standing for): The sign >> standing for the object AND the sign standing for the interpretant in a >> double relation of (standing for) which expands from (2nds indexical) to >> (thirds corresponding) >> ? An example is the correspondence of pronouns (you) (me) (it). Me as I >> Stand in relation to it and Me as I stand in relation to you. In such a way >> that you stand in relation to it and you stand in relation to me in a >> double relation of standing for that (corresponds). The object?s relation >> to both you and to I correspond as (thirds) which is general and abstract. >> ? Rein introduced (ity) as (arising) phenomena that do not exist as >> objects (in potential) or as objects with (essence). All is impermanence >> as thematic NOT STRUCTURALLY opposite to permanence or stability or >> solidity. (ity) has existence as arising when the *now* HAS arrived. This >> arising of existents do not exist in potential. (ity) is also not under an >> agents *control*. Arising phenomena exist as momentary things materially >> but radically particular and idio/syncretic. >> ? Ity is not general >> >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 4 17:24:08 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 17:24:08 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Meaning extended from index to Correspondence In-Reply-To: <4502043E-3D75-4399-BC58-D8C73B70852B@gmail.com> References: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> <4502043E-3D75-4399-BC58-D8C73B70852B@gmail.com> Message-ID: So what is your take on Eisenshtein's interest in written Chinese, David. Shot, gaze,.... You remarked about his interest in some earlier text. I always read him in relation to Luria & Vygotsky. I find the notion of "generalized representation" interesting because it turns up in Luria in a quite different context. There used to discussion of such matters when Giyoo Hatano was alive because of the relation to Japanese Kanji, but no one I know of has taken it up with respect to China and Eisenshtein. mike mike On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 5:10 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > David, > Nice! > But I am curious about what (awearable?) is doing at the end of your post. > You can?t put on the Buddha nature? > Henry > > > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:54 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > A colleague of mine down the hall is working on the translation of the > > Platform Sutra of the eighth century Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Huineng > was > > the first Buddhist patriarch who could neither read nor write, and (more > > importantly) the Platform Sutra is the historical moment when Buddhism > > became a religious option for the illiterate masses of China. It is a > > written text, but it is a written account of speaking, and it is written > to > > be spoken. > > > > One way in which Christianity became a religious option for the > illiterate > > masses was through simple, narrativistic artforms, such as the mosaics of > > San Marco in Venice, or the icons of Russia. Buddhists have this > too--there > > has already been some discussion here on the ox pictures (there is, by > the > > way, a beautiful text that goes with the pictures, and there is a place > on > > the lintel of most temples in Korea where the pictures with their > exegesis > > can be seen). In one of our books we use the ox pictures for Vygotsky's > > account of the six periods and five crises in which the child's > personality > > arises. > > > > But that's not what my colleague is doing. She is using two pictures by > the > > same twelfth century artist Liang Kai. They adorn different translations > of > > the Platform Sutra, and each has a specific relation to the way the > > Platform Sutra has been translated. In one, the patriarch is at eye level > > and he is tearing up the previous sutras in disgust, a roguish gleam in > his > > eye and his tongue protruding in fun. In the other, the patriarch is > > kneeling to cut bamboo (which he did for many years before being > recognized > > as a patriarch) and we see the top of his head. > > > > The idea is that eye-level and from above represent two different camera > > angles and two different stances towards the represented object: one of > > which is egalitarian and the other of which is authoritarian. There are > two > > other relevant systems of interpersonal meaning: the "shot" (close up or > > distant) and the "gaze" (direct or avoidant). Now, these systems are all > > meaningful: "shot" is about the relation of text to context, and "gaze" > is > > about willingness to engage withe the participants.As for the system of > > "angle", it expresses the power relation between the viewer and the Sixth > > Patriarch. > > > > I think this is somewhat anachronistic--Chinese painting is more like > > calligraphy than like cinematography. I also don't think that my > > colleague's systems are textual systems, because they don't have a > > lexicogrammar: the meanings are not encoded in symbols but rather, as > with > > child proto-language, more directly in indexes. What they lack is > precisely > > "correspondence"--a relationship that can be uncoupled and recoupled in > > different ways, a relationship which involves "realization" in both > senses, > > because as the content is encoded in expression it is "realized" in the > > sense of being made material, and as the expression is coded as content > it > > is "realized" in the sense of being made aware, or being made awareable. > > Instead, they are attempts to get around language, or anyway, to get > around > > written language, and make the fundamental insight of common > Buddha-nature > > part of the everyday garb of the illiterate masses (awearable?) > > > > David Kellogg > > Macquarie University > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Lplarry wrote: > > > >> We have been exploring identity and subjectivity and selfhood. > >> In relation to a few themes: > >> ? We have been exploring perezhivanie and this phenomena expressing > >> *meaning* > >> ? James Ma shifts the focus to *potential* in (meaning) potential > >> ? In relation to James Ma?s contribution we turned to Paul Kockleman and > >> the Semiotic Stance. > >> ? The semiotic stance has classically referred to an indexical relation > of > >> a sign standing for an object > >> ? Kockleman expands the classical semiotic stance to always being > >> (thirds). Thirds include double relations of (standing for): The sign > >> standing for the object AND the sign standing for the interpretant in a > >> double relation of (standing for) which expands from (2nds indexical) to > >> (thirds corresponding) > >> ? An example is the correspondence of pronouns (you) (me) (it). Me as > I > >> Stand in relation to it and Me as I stand in relation to you. In such a > way > >> that you stand in relation to it and you stand in relation to me in a > >> double relation of standing for that (corresponds). The object?s > relation > >> to both you and to I correspond as (thirds) which is general and > abstract. > >> ? Rein introduced (ity) as (arising) phenomena that do not exist as > >> objects (in potential) or as objects with (essence). All is > impermanence > >> as thematic NOT STRUCTURALLY opposite to permanence or stability or > >> solidity. (ity) has existence as arising when the *now* HAS arrived. > This > >> arising of existents do not exist in potential. (ity) is also not under > an > >> agents *control*. Arising phenomena exist as momentary things materially > >> but radically particular and idio/syncretic. > >> ? Ity is not general > >> > >> > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >> > >> > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From ablunden@mira.net Thu Aug 4 18:14:28 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:14:28 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Conductivism Message-ID: Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Thu Aug 4 18:27:12 2016 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 21:27:12 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> Hi Andy, I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/ ?read this one for the latest http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's site I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and learned of his work with conductive education from him. I hope this is helpful. Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project > On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? > > I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. > > Andy > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Aug 5 15:17:07 2016 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 07:17:07 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Meaning extended from index to Correspondence In-Reply-To: References: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> <4502043E-3D75-4399-BC58-D8C73B70852B@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think for Eisenstein the Chinese character was a kind of historico-scope, a window on the past of montage, rather the way that Vygotsky used etymology as a window on the past of symbolic meanings (and a way of demonstrating that they included a metonymic principle, just as Chinese characters do). In his essay, he presents the Chinese character in essentially montage terms. The first characters are simply indexes: a drawing of a horse, "ma" (third tone), drawn to look like a horse, as realisitically as one could manage using a stylus on a slip of bamboo. This is not yet montage. But if you add the "kou" sign (a small trapezoid figure narrower at the bottom than the top which is used to suggest a mouth and used as a "root" for any Chinese character connected with orality and thus with speech) you obtain a grammatical particle equivalent to speakable question mark, "ma" (neutral/first tone). "Ma" has the power of transforming any wording into an utterance. This is my example, not Eisenstein's; it is, as Eisestein points out, montage, but it's not the montage that he thinks it is--its actually a montage that confirms his theory even better than he knows. Eisenstein's own examples involve the juxtaposition of indexes rather than their classification. So for example the image of an eye is juxtaposed with the "image" of flowing water, to suggest tears. Both images are indexical; there is no "correspondence"--that is, no realization relation which can be coupled and then uncoupled, which would allow us a system of "radicals" and a way of sorting visible phenomena like horses and tears into invisible categories like orality and speech. In other words, Eishenstein's own examples are like the "bricks" he criticizes Kuleshov's theory of montage, where images are simply composed of elements brought together. In Eisenstein, the images are not added up; they are made to conflict and transform each other, and it's from this "unit" that visual elements are transformed into concepts. The grammatical particle "ma" is produced by a collision of images that suggest very different order of phenomena, not by their combination into a same order of phenomena. On p. 53 of "Film Form" (New York: Harvest, 1949/1979), Eisenstein discusses a child's drawing given to him by Luria. It's of the process of lighting a stove in which the "matches" are portrayed as a zig-zag line in a large central rectangle, which is superimposed on an otherwise meticulous reproduction of the stove, the firewood, the chimney. I wonder if Eisenstein's reading of this drawing is correct--it seems to me to be more likely to be an attempt to portray the movement of lighting the matches rather than the matches themselves. It's the child's attempt to confront, and to overcome through Eisenstein's technique of collision, what has always been the biggest flaw in the system of Chinese writing: entities are more drawable than processes, but the act of drawing, the act of depicting, the act of communicating is a process and not an entity. David Kellogg Macquarie University On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:24 AM, mike cole wrote: > So what is your take on Eisenshtein's interest in written Chinese, David. > Shot, gaze,.... You remarked about his interest in some earlier text. I > always read him > in relation to Luria & Vygotsky. I find the notion of "generalized > representation" interesting because it turns up in Luria in a quite > different context. > > There used to discussion of such matters when Giyoo Hatano was alive > because of the relation to Japanese Kanji, but no one I know of has taken > it up with respect to China and Eisenshtein. > > mike > > mike > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 5:10 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > David, > > Nice! > > But I am curious about what (awearable?) is doing at the end of your > post. > > You can?t put on the Buddha nature? > > Henry > > > > > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:54 PM, David Kellogg > wrote: > > > > > > A colleague of mine down the hall is working on the translation of the > > > Platform Sutra of the eighth century Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Huineng > > was > > > the first Buddhist patriarch who could neither read nor write, and > (more > > > importantly) the Platform Sutra is the historical moment when Buddhism > > > became a religious option for the illiterate masses of China. It is a > > > written text, but it is a written account of speaking, and it is > written > > to > > > be spoken. > > > > > > One way in which Christianity became a religious option for the > > illiterate > > > masses was through simple, narrativistic artforms, such as the mosaics > of > > > San Marco in Venice, or the icons of Russia. Buddhists have this > > too--there > > > has already been some discussion here on the ox pictures (there is, by > > the > > > way, a beautiful text that goes with the pictures, and there is a place > > on > > > the lintel of most temples in Korea where the pictures with their > > exegesis > > > can be seen). In one of our books we use the ox pictures for Vygotsky's > > > account of the six periods and five crises in which the child's > > personality > > > arises. > > > > > > But that's not what my colleague is doing. She is using two pictures by > > the > > > same twelfth century artist Liang Kai. They adorn different > translations > > of > > > the Platform Sutra, and each has a specific relation to the way the > > > Platform Sutra has been translated. In one, the patriarch is at eye > level > > > and he is tearing up the previous sutras in disgust, a roguish gleam in > > his > > > eye and his tongue protruding in fun. In the other, the patriarch is > > > kneeling to cut bamboo (which he did for many years before being > > recognized > > > as a patriarch) and we see the top of his head. > > > > > > The idea is that eye-level and from above represent two different > camera > > > angles and two different stances towards the represented object: one of > > > which is egalitarian and the other of which is authoritarian. There are > > two > > > other relevant systems of interpersonal meaning: the "shot" (close up > or > > > distant) and the "gaze" (direct or avoidant). Now, these systems are > all > > > meaningful: "shot" is about the relation of text to context, and "gaze" > > is > > > about willingness to engage withe the participants.As for the system of > > > "angle", it expresses the power relation between the viewer and the > Sixth > > > Patriarch. > > > > > > I think this is somewhat anachronistic--Chinese painting is more like > > > calligraphy than like cinematography. I also don't think that my > > > colleague's systems are textual systems, because they don't have a > > > lexicogrammar: the meanings are not encoded in symbols but rather, as > > with > > > child proto-language, more directly in indexes. What they lack is > > precisely > > > "correspondence"--a relationship that can be uncoupled and recoupled in > > > different ways, a relationship which involves "realization" in both > > senses, > > > because as the content is encoded in expression it is "realized" in the > > > sense of being made material, and as the expression is coded as content > > it > > > is "realized" in the sense of being made aware, or being made > awareable. > > > Instead, they are attempts to get around language, or anyway, to get > > around > > > written language, and make the fundamental insight of common > > Buddha-nature > > > part of the everyday garb of the illiterate masses (awearable?) > > > > > > David Kellogg > > > Macquarie University > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Lplarry wrote: > > > > > >> We have been exploring identity and subjectivity and selfhood. > > >> In relation to a few themes: > > >> ? We have been exploring perezhivanie and this phenomena expressing > > >> *meaning* > > >> ? James Ma shifts the focus to *potential* in (meaning) potential > > >> ? In relation to James Ma?s contribution we turned to Paul Kockleman > and > > >> the Semiotic Stance. > > >> ? The semiotic stance has classically referred to an indexical > relation > > of > > >> a sign standing for an object > > >> ? Kockleman expands the classical semiotic stance to always being > > >> (thirds). Thirds include double relations of (standing for): The sign > > >> standing for the object AND the sign standing for the interpretant in > a > > >> double relation of (standing for) which expands from (2nds indexical) > to > > >> (thirds corresponding) > > >> ? An example is the correspondence of pronouns (you) (me) (it). Me > as > > I > > >> Stand in relation to it and Me as I stand in relation to you. In such > a > > way > > >> that you stand in relation to it and you stand in relation to me in a > > >> double relation of standing for that (corresponds). The object?s > > relation > > >> to both you and to I correspond as (thirds) which is general and > > abstract. > > >> ? Rein introduced (ity) as (arising) phenomena that do not exist as > > >> objects (in potential) or as objects with (essence). All is > > impermanence > > >> as thematic NOT STRUCTURALLY opposite to permanence or stability or > > >> solidity. (ity) has existence as arising when the *now* HAS arrived. > > This > > >> arising of existents do not exist in potential. (ity) is also not > under > > an > > >> agents *control*. Arising phenomena exist as momentary things > materially > > >> but radically particular and idio/syncretic. > > >> ? Ity is not general > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Fri Aug 5 15:36:09 2016 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 07:36:09 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Meaning extended from index to Correspondence In-Reply-To: <4502043E-3D75-4399-BC58-D8C73B70852B@gmail.com> References: <57a357cd.6fa9420a.274b1.9b70@mx.google.com> <4502043E-3D75-4399-BC58-D8C73B70852B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Henry: It was a joke. A lot of Huineng's adventures have to do with his inheritance of the Fifth Patriarch's resplendent prayer shawl and his golden (!) begging bowl--he has to flee an army of jealous monks who want to steal them, and he simply goes back to his humble wood-cutting way sand his homespun clothes. But it was a serious joke. I think all religions have a basic contradiction. It's not the usual ones that religious people worry about (e.g. how do you squrae the omnipotence of God with the omnipresence of evil), it's the problem of conveying what are essentially literate ways of thinking to people who are not yet literate (because people who are fully literate tend to move well past religion in their explanations of phenomena). One way they do this is to dress up written texts as spoken ones, and one amusing way they do this is to ascrbe written texts to people who could not themselves read or write. Given the time and place where he lived (and given the lack of any written text authored by him), Christ was certainly, like Muhammad, illiterate--the books of Moses were--ostentatiously, since they include the death of Moses--not written by Moses, and nor were the psalms of David by Bathsheba's second husband. I think that Hui-neng presents a similar problem. He has to present an essentially written body of knowledge to people who cannot read or write themselves. He solves it through a somewhat demagogic and disingenuous anti-intellectualism. For example, he wants to make Buddhism into a religion that does not require years of contemplative retreat and can be combined with productive, tithe-paying activity. So he writes: In life, sit without lying In death, lie without sitting In both, a bag of bones that stink! In neither the great lesson of living. (Poor Huineng! He was mummified sitting up, and his bag of stinking bones is still kept in Namshan Temple near Guangzhou!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng#/media/File:Huineng.jpg David Kellogg Macquarie University All religions confront this basthe omnipostence On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:10 AM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > David, > Nice! > But I am curious about what (awearable?) is doing at the end of your post. > You can?t put on the Buddha nature? > Henry > > > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:54 PM, David Kellogg wrote: > > > > A colleague of mine down the hall is working on the translation of the > > Platform Sutra of the eighth century Sixth Patriarch, Huineng. Huineng > was > > the first Buddhist patriarch who could neither read nor write, and (more > > importantly) the Platform Sutra is the historical moment when Buddhism > > became a religious option for the illiterate masses of China. It is a > > written text, but it is a written account of speaking, and it is written > to > > be spoken. > > > > One way in which Christianity became a religious option for the > illiterate > > masses was through simple, narrativistic artforms, such as the mosaics of > > San Marco in Venice, or the icons of Russia. Buddhists have this > too--there > > has already been some discussion here on the ox pictures (there is, by > the > > way, a beautiful text that goes with the pictures, and there is a place > on > > the lintel of most temples in Korea where the pictures with their > exegesis > > can be seen). In one of our books we use the ox pictures for Vygotsky's > > account of the six periods and five crises in which the child's > personality > > arises. > > > > But that's not what my colleague is doing. She is using two pictures by > the > > same twelfth century artist Liang Kai. They adorn different translations > of > > the Platform Sutra, and each has a specific relation to the way the > > Platform Sutra has been translated. In one, the patriarch is at eye level > > and he is tearing up the previous sutras in disgust, a roguish gleam in > his > > eye and his tongue protruding in fun. In the other, the patriarch is > > kneeling to cut bamboo (which he did for many years before being > recognized > > as a patriarch) and we see the top of his head. > > > > The idea is that eye-level and from above represent two different camera > > angles and two different stances towards the represented object: one of > > which is egalitarian and the other of which is authoritarian. There are > two > > other relevant systems of interpersonal meaning: the "shot" (close up or > > distant) and the "gaze" (direct or avoidant). Now, these systems are all > > meaningful: "shot" is about the relation of text to context, and "gaze" > is > > about willingness to engage withe the participants.As for the system of > > "angle", it expresses the power relation between the viewer and the Sixth > > Patriarch. > > > > I think this is somewhat anachronistic--Chinese painting is more like > > calligraphy than like cinematography. I also don't think that my > > colleague's systems are textual systems, because they don't have a > > lexicogrammar: the meanings are not encoded in symbols but rather, as > with > > child proto-language, more directly in indexes. What they lack is > precisely > > "correspondence"--a relationship that can be uncoupled and recoupled in > > different ways, a relationship which involves "realization" in both > senses, > > because as the content is encoded in expression it is "realized" in the > > sense of being made material, and as the expression is coded as content > it > > is "realized" in the sense of being made aware, or being made awareable. > > Instead, they are attempts to get around language, or anyway, to get > around > > written language, and make the fundamental insight of common > Buddha-nature > > part of the everyday garb of the illiterate masses (awearable?) > > > > David Kellogg > > Macquarie University > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Lplarry wrote: > > > >> We have been exploring identity and subjectivity and selfhood. > >> In relation to a few themes: > >> ? We have been exploring perezhivanie and this phenomena expressing > >> *meaning* > >> ? James Ma shifts the focus to *potential* in (meaning) potential > >> ? In relation to James Ma?s contribution we turned to Paul Kockleman and > >> the Semiotic Stance. > >> ? The semiotic stance has classically referred to an indexical relation > of > >> a sign standing for an object > >> ? Kockleman expands the classical semiotic stance to always being > >> (thirds). Thirds include double relations of (standing for): The sign > >> standing for the object AND the sign standing for the interpretant in a > >> double relation of (standing for) which expands from (2nds indexical) to > >> (thirds corresponding) > >> ? An example is the correspondence of pronouns (you) (me) (it). Me as > I > >> Stand in relation to it and Me as I stand in relation to you. In such a > way > >> that you stand in relation to it and you stand in relation to me in a > >> double relation of standing for that (corresponds). The object?s > relation > >> to both you and to I correspond as (thirds) which is general and > abstract. > >> ? Rein introduced (ity) as (arising) phenomena that do not exist as > >> objects (in potential) or as objects with (essence). All is > impermanence > >> as thematic NOT STRUCTURALLY opposite to permanence or stability or > >> solidity. (ity) has existence as arising when the *now* HAS arrived. > This > >> arising of existents do not exist in potential. (ity) is also not under > an > >> agents *control*. Arising phenomena exist as momentary things materially > >> but radically particular and idio/syncretic. > >> ? Ity is not general > >> > >> > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >> > >> > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 5 17:20:48 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:20:48 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows Message-ID: I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of mind, culture, and activity. One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a racial, religious, or social group." The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. Stereotyping Homogenizing Essentializing Reifying There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but that flow is constrained by a cup. The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. mike -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From hshonerd@gmail.com Fri Aug 5 18:32:04 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 19:32:04 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85887F38-BB08-4D83-9F8B-96C9E9858F21@gmail.com> Mike, I could say Resonating Flowing Sensing Collaborating Would that be essentializing? Not a bad rap though.:) Henry > On Aug 5, 2016, at 6:20 PM, mike cole wrote: > > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of culture > prominent in the literature on the relationship between culture and human > psychological processes. The characterization struck me forcefully as an > example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a different discourse > stream, providing food for thought on the topic of mind, culture, and > activity. > > > > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my own, > Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces its origins > to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making things grow, > nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other (Social Psychology) > adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a racial, religious, or > social group." > > > > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also associates > this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." > > > > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting the > entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just list > them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. > > > > Stereotyping > > Homogenizing > > Essentializing > > Reifying > > > > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, developmental, > perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and spoil the rug and need > to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but that flow is constrained by a > cup. > > > > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > > > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the 11 ox > paintings has induced me to think again about long standing ideas. Always > enlightening. Thanks. > > > mike > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From annalisa@unm.edu Fri Aug 5 19:31:55 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 02:31:55 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello! Is it possible to send on this article, Mike? I did not notice a reference. As you might know, I am particularly intrigued with the notion of patterns, so I would be an eager reader if this article. It appears that the described "entity conception of culture" is one awash with categories, while developmental conception of culture (and isn't that why the word "culture" is used?) is category-defying. This distinction might be called antiquated vs. ecological. So for my list for your liquid perspective, I'd offer: ecological developmental distributed metaphorical affording creative innovative liberatory And I'd suggest the the list appears in that order in time and space, only to begin once again, perhaps like a fractal. This might be watching a pattern evolve from nothing into "something" which is then named, cognized, and remembered, at which point it is employed until such time it is set free into the ether to begin again as itself or to develop into yet a new and different pattern. I like the image of the magic trick as a nice metaphorical rendering for this flow. Magic tricks (when they work), have a very liquid dynamic. I say this because we know the illusion is there and not there at the same time; we have no conflict over the tension of vision and reality, in fact it is something pleasing to us, it delights us. Kind regards, Annalisa From lpscholar2@gmail.com Fri Aug 5 20:14:55 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 20:14:55 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> The liquids *flow* but can spill so ... Must be *contained* by the cup. Who or what is doing the containing? Is the containing a growing pattern such as a tree with roots, trunks, branches that *contain* the flow Or Is the containing more like the delta of a river and the channels formed further upstream. A third image of the container is the grow of a city as a labyrinth, with each neighbourhood developing from earlier *arising* patterns. Flowing / containing. Three aspects and the ?/? is the relational question as quest Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole From ablunden@mira.net Fri Aug 5 20:34:45 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:34:45 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: <9f8b4cf2-43db-f114-21a4-3c34c6d442f2@mira.net> Here is a sample of material from Andrew Sutton: http://www.conductive-world.info/2016/08/six-principles.html Six principles of neuropsychology formulated by Luria. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > Hi Andy, > I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk > > http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ > http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education > /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/ ?read this one for the latest > http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's site > > I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and learned of his work with conductive education from him. > > I hope this is helpful. > > Lois > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Fax +1.718.797.3966 > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter > Blogs > Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World > All Stars Project > > > >> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >> >> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. >> >> Andy >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > From annalisa@unm.edu Fri Aug 5 21:02:57 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 04:02:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> References: , <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Larry, The irony is not lost upon me, however, the metaphor becomes the cup! (even though you have used the cup as a metaphor!) Subsequently, the metaphor is used in such a manner as it can be afforded. And then creatively and innovatively employed, which is then either discarded or set free (your spilling, or perhaps pouring into a different metaphor?). I say "set free" like the pole vaulter will let go the pole, once the act has been achieved. After which, then it resolves once again into the ecology...to develop again either into itself or something else. It helps to consider a pattern that forms and resolves. Patterns don't have containers, as such, but we contain them with words when we say that they look like something. For example the constellations of stars do not "flow" in the sky, but we assign a container of a metaphor upon them so that they are easier to "see." Nothing changes about the placement of the stars in relation to themselves (despite their moving in an arc across the sky), but we can see the pattern of the big dipper at the same time we see the stars that are "contained" by the cup-like metaphor! :) Kind regards in a ladle, Annalisa From R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk Fri Aug 5 23:58:24 2016 From: R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk (Rod Parker-Rees) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 06:58:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows Message-ID: Many thanks for this, Mike. I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, interactions and intersubjectivity. I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way we make sense of what flows our way. Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! All the best, Rod On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of mind, culture, and activity. One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a racial, religious, or social group." The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. Stereotyping Homogenizing Essentializing Reifying There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but that flow is constrained by a cup. The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. mike -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ________________________________ [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk Sat Aug 6 02:31:17 2016 From: r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk (R.J.S.Parsons) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:31:17 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8a486d51-062e-3021-8370-75c2ded3260e@open.ac.uk> For a ong time I have thought of culture as liquid with people providing the cup. Through everyday actions and responses to changing circumstances, and through the spark of creativity that most of us still have (despite the efforts of modern educational policy o wring it out of us), we make the trappings of culture, whch are liquid. And then we try as hard as we can to solidify the liquid. I take some of my ideas on this from Tajfel's work on the formation of in groups and out groups, and particularly his ideas of the fundamental human acctivities of categorisation and assimilation. Rob On 06/08/2016 07:58, Rod Parker-Rees wrote: > Many thanks for this, Mike. > > I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, interactions and intersubjectivity. > > I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way we make sense of what flows our way. > > Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > > All the best, > > Rod > > On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of culture > prominent in the literature on the relationship between culture and human > psychological processes. The characterization struck me forcefully as an > example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a different discourse > stream, providing food for thought on the topic of mind, culture, and > activity. > > > > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my own, > Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces its origins > to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making things grow, > nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other (Social Psychology) > adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a racial, religious, or > social group." > > > > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also associates > this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." > > > > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting the > entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just list > them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. > > > > Stereotyping > > Homogenizing > > Essentializing > > Reifying > > > > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, developmental, > perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and spoil the rug and need > to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but that flow is constrained by a > cup. > > > > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > > > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the 11 ox > paintings has induced me to think again about long standing ideas. Always > enlightening. Thanks. > > > mike > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. If you have received this email in error please let the sender know immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied by an official order form. From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Sat Aug 6 06:58:41 2016 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:58:41 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Against political categorization/the politics of partisanship Message-ID: <1A019864-CE91-42F1-9922-0B72E234CD90@eastsideinstitute.org> I offer this talk by Jackie Salit at the American Citizens Summit on the American political situation because it steps out of the box of the identities and personalities of the candidates, speaks to how the exercise of power gets turned into authority, to our alienation, and to the authoritarianism of ?knowing." http://americancitizenssummit.com/program/142 Wanted folks here to know this entire summit on transpartisan politics is going on (and many of the other talks are worth listening to). Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sat Aug 6 07:56:35 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 07:56:35 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: , <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com> Not to loose sight of the theme (entities and dynamic flows). Annalisa noticed *the cup* can be *the container* moving from particular to abstract and this way of moving is meta/phor. The cup as an image expresses what? An entity? A theme? A causal sequence? Is the cup is an expression of *a* container* OR is the cup an expression of *contain/ing* and do different cultures and languages give contrasting answers? Is *a* container (entity) more or less adequate, more or less *right* in contrast to *contain/ing*? What is this relation of (container & containing). Is the answer causal or metaphorical, or hermeneutical circle, or thematic, or aggregate (ex: Winter ? snow). Is this a process of persons who have *minds* constructing the above relations and (relations of relations)? OR Are these relations flows of language *use* in which the language process (itself) is concealed as the use is revealed OR Does language itself have two poles ( historical constituents) AND ( aesthetic novelty). I will mention Umberto Eco whose last book (2014) traces how deeply implicated Western forms of conceiving of thoughts (entity) and thinking (dynamic flows) are historically influenced by the tree metaphor and the theme of generality, taxonomy, super and sub structures, categorization, classification. This *tree metaphor* is in contrast to Dogen and Rein who highlight that these ways of conceiving flow as things with higher and lower levels of generality are historical artifacts *arising* within a tradition (see Eco?s last book). Entities/essence (including social pychco/LOGY) contrasting with *ity* Structures of consciousness developing as processes that may or may not follow a particular universal sequence of steps OR historically situated influences developing through novelty as thematic aggregations without systematic structure. The 10 or 11 ox frames as icon (vagueness) index (gesturing) and symbol (thirds) of a *way* (path) that is not so focused on *controlled* intentions* which Mead postulated as required and necessary for human transactional thirds to exist as transactional (instrumental?) *thirds*. Zygmunt?s latest book is on *managed* liquid modernity. This word (managed) with Zygmunt?s other book exploring the moral blindness of liquid modernity seems to be critical as we explore the image and meaning *potential* of the cup metaphor. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Annalisa Aguilar From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Aug 6 08:22:15 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 08:22:15 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of my message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not under proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it in a pdf, please send to the group. If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile for those interested in the issues. mike Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & C.S. Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. Mahwah, NJ. pp. 335-360.* On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > Many thanks for this, Mike. > > I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in the > way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows and > processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a developmental model > which emphasises flow and change there are others which aim to halt or dam > the flow by identifying stages (like locks along a river?) which can be > thought about more as things. And there are versions of social psychology > which focus more on relationships, interactions and intersubjectivity. > > I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of concepts > (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific contexts to allow > them to be shared) that draws them towards reification, turning a flow into > a thing (the river, the flow!). But in our lived experience the past runs > into the present and the future also shapes the flow. I think the idea of > perezhivanie catches this idea of a reciprocity between our past social > experiences and the way we make sense of what flows our way. > > Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > > All the best, > > Rod > > On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of culture > prominent in the literature on the relationship between culture and human > psychological processes. The characterization struck me forcefully as an > example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a different discourse > stream, providing food for thought on the topic of mind, culture, and > activity. > > > > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my own, > Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces its origins > to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making things grow, > nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other (Social Psychology) > adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a racial, religious, or > social group." > > > > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also associates > this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." > > > > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting the > entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just list > them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. > > > > Stereotyping > > Homogenizing > > Essentializing > > Reifying > > > > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, developmental, > perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and spoil the rug and need > to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but that flow is constrained by a > cup. > > > > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > > > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the 11 ox > paintings has induced me to think again about long standing ideas. Always > enlightening. Thanks. > > > mike > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely for > the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University accepts > no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan emails > and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept responsibility > for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this email or its > attachments constitutes an order for goods or services unless accompanied > by an official order form. > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From rein.raud@tlu.ee Sat Aug 6 08:45:03 2016 From: rein.raud@tlu.ee (Rein Raud) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:45:03 +0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com> References: <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7A8F8218-4A3A-440C-9572-FD4C21093254@tlu.ee> Dear all, I think there is a danger here to essentialize something/someone as the container: we should keep note that the people (the cultural community) is not a self-identical and ready-made set of individuals who take on a culture, but that they are to a significant extent themselves formed by the culture they have been raised in. But neither is the culture a power that defines the outlook of the individuals that take it on, as early believers of cultural determinism would have it. I?d say culture could be likened to the climate, in that (1) it is not an identifiable ?thing?, but a multitude of relations, tensions, attitudes and processes that are neither entirely compatible with each other nor wholly independent; (2) it predetermines a certain part of the people?s behaviour while itself being influenced by what the people do (and in the case of culture, the changes may be fortunate as well as unfortunate; (3) it has no clear boundaries, thus climate zones form gradients at their edges while being more true to character at their centers; (4) it does not provoke an unequivocal response from its carriers - what may seem to be an awful weather for holiday-makers is the long-awaited rain for farmers, and similarly can the oppressors and the oppressed have different views on cultural texts and practices that they share. I have actually written about this in my recent book entitled ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture ", just out from Polity (the link lets you see the introduction and a short summary of the theory, if not, then look here , where I treat cultural phenomena - texts and practices - as bids to increase what I call the ?cognitive adequacy? of the community (not the truthfulness of its worldview, mind) and look at the various factors that condition their reception and circulation. Again, I believe that essentializing has done and continues to do a lot of damage in the discussion of things cultural, as it somehow presupposes rigid identities, not the flexible and constantly transforming minds that we actually possess. With best wishes, Rein > On 06 Aug 2016, at 17:56, Lplarry wrote: > > Not to loose sight of the theme (entities and dynamic flows). > Annalisa noticed *the cup* can be *the container* moving from particular to abstract and this way of moving is meta/phor. > The cup as an image expresses what? > An entity? A theme? A causal sequence? > > Is the cup is an expression of *a* container* OR is the cup an expression of *contain/ing* and do different cultures and languages give contrasting answers? > > Is *a* container (entity) more or less adequate, more or less *right* in contrast to *contain/ing*? > > What is this relation of (container & containing). > Is the answer causal or metaphorical, or hermeneutical circle, or thematic, or aggregate (ex: Winter ? snow). > > Is this a process of persons who have *minds* constructing the above relations and (relations of relations)? > OR > Are these relations flows of language *use* in which the language process (itself) is concealed as the use is revealed > OR > Does language itself have two poles ( historical constituents) AND ( aesthetic novelty). > > I will mention Umberto Eco whose last book (2014) traces how deeply implicated Western forms of conceiving of thoughts (entity) and thinking (dynamic flows) are historically influenced by the tree metaphor and the theme of generality, taxonomy, super and sub structures, categorization, classification. > This *tree metaphor* is in contrast to Dogen and Rein who highlight that these ways of conceiving flow as things with higher and lower levels of generality are historical artifacts *arising* within a tradition (see Eco?s last book). > > Entities/essence (including social pychco/LOGY) contrasting with *ity* > > Structures of consciousness developing as processes that may or may not follow a particular universal sequence of steps OR > historically situated influences developing through novelty as thematic aggregations without systematic structure. > > The 10 or 11 ox frames as icon (vagueness) index (gesturing) and symbol (thirds) of a *way* (path) that is not so focused on *controlled* intentions* which Mead postulated as required and necessary for human transactional thirds to exist as transactional (instrumental?) *thirds*. > > Zygmunt?s latest book is on *managed* liquid modernity. > > This word (managed) with Zygmunt?s other book exploring the moral blindness of liquid modernity seems to be critical as we explore the image and meaning *potential* of the cup metaphor. > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: Annalisa Aguilar From Peg.Griffin@att.net Sat Aug 6 09:14:46 2016 From: Peg.Griffin@att.net (Peg Griffin) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:14:46 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the whole 390 + pagebook -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of my message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not under proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it in a pdf, please send to the group. If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile for those interested in the issues. mike Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & C.S. Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. Mahwah, NJ. pp. 335-360.* On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > Many thanks for this, Mike. > > I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in > the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows > and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a > developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others > which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks > along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there > are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, interactions and intersubjectivity. > > I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of > concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific > contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards > reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But > in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future > also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this > idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way we make sense of what flows our way. > > Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > > All the best, > > Rod > > On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of > culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between > culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck > me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a > different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of > mind, culture, and activity. > > > > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my > own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces > its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making > things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other > (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a > racial, religious, or social group." > > > > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also > associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." > > > > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting > the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just > list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. > > > > Stereotyping > > Homogenizing > > Essentializing > > Reifying > > > > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, > developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and > spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but > that flow is constrained by a cup. > > > > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > > > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the > 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing > ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. > > > mike > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > ________________________________ > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on it. > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > unless accompanied by an official order form. > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Aug 6 10:04:16 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:04:16 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. mike On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the > whole 390 + pagebook > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows > > My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of my > message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not under > proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it in a > pdf, please send to the group. > If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and post > it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile for those > interested in the issues. > > mike > > Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture suitable > for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & C.S. Crandall > (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. Mahwah, NJ. pp. > 335-360.* > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > > > Many thanks for this, Mike. > > > > I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in > > the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows > > and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a > > developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others > > which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks > > along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there > > are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, > interactions and intersubjectivity. > > > > I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of > > concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific > > contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards > > reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But > > in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future > > also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this > > idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way we > make sense of what flows our way. > > > > Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > > > > All the best, > > > > Rod > > > > On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of > > culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between > > culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck > > me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a > > different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of > > mind, culture, and activity. > > > > > > > > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my > > own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces > > its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making > > things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other > > (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a > > racial, religious, or social group." > > > > > > > > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also > > associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or > social group." > > > > > > > > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting > > the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just > > list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the > chapter made. > > > > > > > > Stereotyping > > > > Homogenizing > > > > Essentializing > > > > Reifying > > > > > > > > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, > > developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and > > spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but > > that flow is constrained by a cup. > > > > > > > > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > > > > > > > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the > > 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing > > ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. > > > > > > mike > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > ________________________________ > > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > > > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > > for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > > the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on > it. > > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > > accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > > scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > > responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > > email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > > unless accompanied by an official order form. > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 6 11:23:52 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:23:52 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <7A8F8218-4A3A-440C-9572-FD4C21093254@tlu.ee> References: <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com> <7A8F8218-4A3A-440C-9572-FD4C21093254@tlu.ee> Message-ID: <76996695-6E2D-45A4-9E2C-4A3B2407C642@gmail.com> Gente, I wonder if the song by the Beatles ?Within You and Without You? is as relevant for others as it is for me. Written by George Harrison and part of Sgt. Pepper?s Lonely Heart Club Band (1967). The final line is ?Life flows on within you and without you.? There?s a line worthy of the containment paradox. Here?s the whole song: "We were talking about the space between us all And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion Never glimpse the truth, then it's far too late, when they pass away We were talking about the love we all could share When we find it, to try our best to hold it there with our love With our love, we could save the world, if they only knew Try to realise it's all within yourself No one else can make you change And to see you're really only very small And life flows on within you and without you We were talking about the love that's gone so cold And the people who gain the world and lose their soul They don't know, they can't see, are you one of them? When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find Peace of mind is waiting there And the time will come when you see we're all one And life flows on within you and without you" Ah, love! One might say it doesn?t essentialize :) Though the summer of love (1967) turned out to be terminal euphoria :( Henry > On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Rein Raud wrote: > > Dear all, > > I think there is a danger here to essentialize something/someone as the container: we should keep note that the people (the cultural community) is not a self-identical and ready-made set of individuals who take on a culture, but that they are to a significant extent themselves formed by the culture they have been raised in. But neither is the culture a power that defines the outlook of the individuals that take it on, as early believers of cultural determinism would have it. I?d say culture could be likened to the climate, in that (1) it is not an identifiable ?thing?, but a multitude of relations, tensions, attitudes and processes that are neither entirely compatible with each other nor wholly independent; (2) it predetermines a certain part of the people?s behaviour while itself being influenced by what the people do (and in the case of culture, the changes may be fortunate as well as unfortunate; (3) it has no clear boundaries, thus climate zones form gradients at their edges while being more true to character at their centers; (4) it does not provoke an unequivocal response from its carriers - what may seem to be an awful weather for holiday-makers is the long-awaited rain for farmers, and similarly can the oppressors and the oppressed have different views on cultural texts and practices that they share. > I have actually written about this in my recent book entitled ?Meaning in Action: Outline of an Integral Theory of Culture ", just out from Polity (the link lets you see the introduction and a short summary of the theory, if not, then look here , where I treat cultural phenomena - texts and practices - as bids to increase what I call the ?cognitive adequacy? of the community (not the truthfulness of its worldview, mind) and look at the various factors that condition their reception and circulation. Again, I believe that essentializing has done and continues to do a lot of damage in the discussion of things cultural, as it somehow presupposes rigid identities, not the flexible and constantly transforming minds that we actually possess. > > With best wishes, > > Rein > >> On 06 Aug 2016, at 17:56, Lplarry wrote: >> >> Not to loose sight of the theme (entities and dynamic flows). >> Annalisa noticed *the cup* can be *the container* moving from particular to abstract and this way of moving is meta/phor. >> The cup as an image expresses what? >> An entity? A theme? A causal sequence? >> >> Is the cup is an expression of *a* container* OR is the cup an expression of *contain/ing* and do different cultures and languages give contrasting answers? >> >> Is *a* container (entity) more or less adequate, more or less *right* in contrast to *contain/ing*? >> >> What is this relation of (container & containing). >> Is the answer causal or metaphorical, or hermeneutical circle, or thematic, or aggregate (ex: Winter ? snow). >> >> Is this a process of persons who have *minds* constructing the above relations and (relations of relations)? >> OR >> Are these relations flows of language *use* in which the language process (itself) is concealed as the use is revealed >> OR >> Does language itself have two poles ( historical constituents) AND ( aesthetic novelty). >> >> I will mention Umberto Eco whose last book (2014) traces how deeply implicated Western forms of conceiving of thoughts (entity) and thinking (dynamic flows) are historically influenced by the tree metaphor and the theme of generality, taxonomy, super and sub structures, categorization, classification. >> This *tree metaphor* is in contrast to Dogen and Rein who highlight that these ways of conceiving flow as things with higher and lower levels of generality are historical artifacts *arising* within a tradition (see Eco?s last book). >> >> Entities/essence (including social pychco/LOGY) contrasting with *ity* >> >> Structures of consciousness developing as processes that may or may not follow a particular universal sequence of steps OR >> historically situated influences developing through novelty as thematic aggregations without systematic structure. >> >> The 10 or 11 ox frames as icon (vagueness) index (gesturing) and symbol (thirds) of a *way* (path) that is not so focused on *controlled* intentions* which Mead postulated as required and necessary for human transactional thirds to exist as transactional (instrumental?) *thirds*. >> >> Zygmunt?s latest book is on *managed* liquid modernity. >> >> This word (managed) with Zygmunt?s other book exploring the moral blindness of liquid modernity seems to be critical as we explore the image and meaning *potential* of the cup metaphor. >> >> >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: Annalisa Aguilar > From annalisa@unm.edu Sat Aug 6 11:55:24 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:55:24 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <7A8F8218-4A3A-440C-9572-FD4C21093254@tlu.ee> References: <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com>, <7A8F8218-4A3A-440C-9572-FD4C21093254@tlu.ee> Message-ID: Hello, Rein raises some good points. Essentializing anything seems to be what introduces conflict because categories that arise from essentializing, create impermeable walls that place people into boxes, particularly in boxes they likely don't want to be. But then, sometimes people put themselves into boxes because they want to be in them. So there's that too. I'd say that occurs because there is strength in numbers and a person knows one is vulnerable if one stands alone. So we need a tribe to stand with, if only to survive. Still, I'd like to stand back with a wider view and say that the act of making categories serves a function of thinking, however, when it is done unethically, issues arise with consequences that in the end no one really wants. Wars arise because people don't want to give up their categories. I'm using the word category because it helps to distinguish it from culture, which is a little bit invisible to us. But I use the word category invokes a particular structural sense, a rigidity. So I suppose I mean to say, it cannot be helped that humans create categories, we are hardwired for that. But at the same time, a lack of education creates people who will categorize uncritically, and then they become lazy or deluded in their thinking and this creates an environment ripe for essentializing. I would suggest such people who adhere to essential-categories even become mechanical in their thinking, without any self-awareness that they possess these thought-structures, and that they live by them. Isn't this what Freud tapped into? Of course, if you stand to benefit from the categories that have been distributed in any given society, then it behooves you to maintain this status quo, regardless if the categories are false or whether they harm others or even oneself. It takes a very critical thinker to realize that benefits one might derive in this manner are short-lived, even artificial, and have a cost in the end; it is unsustainable. Not many people are equipped to recognize this inadequacy. I'd offer that those sorts of people think concretely, and must experience the consequences first, to understand it, rather than just understand it conceptually. That is why history rarely teaches us anything with the next generation, at least, that seems to be the case why changing categories is so darned difficult. It's a very complex problem to persuade those who must experience first to learn, to attempt to learn first without the experience. Kind regards, Annalisa From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Aug 6 11:58:45 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 11:58:45 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> Message-ID: Rod, Larry, Rein, et al-- I, like Rein, worry about the cup metaphor. I was writing quickly and using the cup as only one example. In some ways an unfortunate example, The spilled liquid could be absorbed by a table cloth, fall through slats in the floor, etc. Contained, managed ..... The cup metaphor is used widely in connection with the term, context, which Ray McDermott criticized effectively back about 1993 in the Chaiklin/Lave book on activity and practice. I would like to suggest an additional way to think about solidity. In terms of the time scale of change. I often give the example of a table. A table seems like a good candidate for a solid object. In discussing this in class, I sometimes slam my hand unexpectdly again the desk of podium and everyone jumps while i have to nurse my hand which is red and it stings. That table sure seems solid to me and to the audience as well. But the table is only solid relative to another object, in this case me. It is changing on a very different time scale, constituted as it is of wood, formica, and a bit of metal. Come back in a thousand years and all that will be left of that table, if that much, will be the metal parts, even if the table is not recycled by human beings and global warming or war does not de-compose the table along the way. The issue of scale is beautifully illustrated in "Powers of Ten," a ten-minute film on line if you enter the title. Starting with a scale that encompasses two people lying on a blanket along the lake shore in Chicago and goes out ten powers, and then rapidly reverses and goes powers of ten micro into the constituents of matter. Perceptually, what is solid and what is empty space changes dynamically as one moves along the scales. Hopefully useful. mike On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, mike cole wrote: > Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. > mike > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: > >> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the >> whole 390 + pagebook >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman >> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows >> >> My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of my >> message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not under >> proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it in a >> pdf, please send to the group. >> If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and >> post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile for >> those interested in the issues. >> >> mike >> >> Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture >> suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & C.S. >> Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. >> Mahwah, NJ. pp. >> 335-360.* >> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < >> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> > Many thanks for this, Mike. >> > >> > I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in >> > the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows >> > and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a >> > developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others >> > which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks >> > along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there >> > are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, >> interactions and intersubjectivity. >> > >> > I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of >> > concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific >> > contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards >> > reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But >> > in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future >> > also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this >> > idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way >> we make sense of what flows our way. >> > >> > Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! >> > >> > All the best, >> > >> > Rod >> > >> > On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: >> > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of >> > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref >> > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of >> > culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between >> > culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck >> > me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a >> > different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of >> > mind, culture, and activity. >> > >> > >> > >> > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my >> > own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces >> > its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making >> > things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other >> > (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a >> > racial, religious, or social group." >> > >> > >> > >> > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic >> > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is >> > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception >> > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of >> > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also >> > associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or >> social group." >> > >> > >> > >> > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting >> > the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just >> > list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the >> chapter made. >> > >> > >> > >> > Stereotyping >> > >> > Homogenizing >> > >> > Essentializing >> > >> > Reifying >> > >> > >> > >> > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, >> > developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and >> > spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but >> > that flow is constrained by a cup. >> > >> > >> > >> > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." >> > >> > >> > >> > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the >> > 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing >> > ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. >> > >> > >> > mike >> > >> > -- >> > >> > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >> > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> > ________________________________ >> > [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif]> > //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> >> > >> > This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely >> > for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not >> > the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the >> > information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on >> it. >> > If you have received this email in error please let the sender know >> > immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not >> > necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University >> > accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to >> > scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept >> > responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this >> > email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services >> > unless accompanied by an official order form. >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> >> >> > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From annalisa@unm.edu Sat Aug 6 12:07:01 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:07:01 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com> References: , <57a55636.4e42620a.323e9.0845@mx.google.com> , <57a5faaa.038a620a.fc3ab.7152@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Larry, Metaphors, as Lakoff and Johnson would have it, derive from embodied thinking. I recall in their book, Philosophy in the Flesh, the container metaphor is always in use, all the time. Even consider prepositions and how they function in language. Consider what it means when I say "in language." Why do I say "in"? The cup as a metaphor expresses a function we observe about cups. The metaphor is exactly the means we use to form or convey an abstract concept, but not in its totality, and that is why metaphors fail if we take them too concretely, too literally. Notice how much you use metaphor to discuss your thinking about this. Notice the title of the subject line. We are quite adeptly using metaphors (and throwing them away without a second thought) to consider concepts suggested by those metaphors, and we share them by invoking those metaphors. Kind regards, Annalisa From annalisa@unm.edu Sat Aug 6 12:12:58 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:12:58 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Against political categorization/the politics of partisanship In-Reply-To: <1A019864-CE91-42F1-9922-0B72E234CD90@eastsideinstitute.org> References: <1A019864-CE91-42F1-9922-0B72E234CD90@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: Thanks for this Lois! Kind regards, Annalisa From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 6 14:46:50 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 15:46:50 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> Message-ID: <5238A4A7-8205-4D18-A231-8DB3C52F52F1@gmail.com> Mike, I have seen that video recently. Did you provide a link? There are programs where one can control the speed and direction of the zooming fluidly between scales of nature, from the Planck constant to the whole universe. You can do this with various fractals, including the mandelbrot fractal, which is generated, like any fractal, with a very simple algorithm. Amazingly intricate patterns. Zooming in and out gives one the sense of time/space. Fractals, as you zoom, are showing you the algorithmic process in real time. If you will, one can go forward (zooming in) and backward (zooming out). There are many patterns in nature that look very fractal. Coastlines and the branching patterns of plants and the brain are easy to simulate with fractals. Through a still shot of a fractal you get an entity at a point in time; zooming is perceiving a computing process across time. Is it a stretch to see the hardware and software for fractal viewing as artifacts for conceiving the simple, algorithmiic nature of creation? I wish I had some links right now to show what I am talking about. Maybe others do. Henry > On Aug 6, 2016, at 12:58 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Rod, Larry, Rein, et al-- > > I, like Rein, worry about the cup metaphor. I was writing quickly and using > the cup as only one example. In some ways an unfortunate example, The > spilled liquid could be absorbed by a table cloth, fall through slats in > the floor, etc. Contained, managed ..... > The cup metaphor is used widely in connection with the term, context, which > Ray McDermott criticized effectively back about 1993 in the Chaiklin/Lave > book on activity and practice. > > I would like to suggest an additional way to think about solidity. In terms > of the time scale of change. > > I often give the example of a table. A table seems like a good candidate > for a solid object. In discussing this in class, I sometimes slam my hand > unexpectdly again the desk of podium and everyone jumps while i have to > nurse my hand which is red and it stings. > > That table sure seems solid to me and to the audience as well. > > > But the table is only solid relative to another object, in this case me. It > is changing on a very different time scale, constituted as it is of wood, > formica, and a bit of metal. Come back in a thousand years and all that > will be left of that table, if that much, will be the metal parts, even if > the table is not recycled by human beings and global warming or war does > not de-compose the table along the way. > > The issue of scale is beautifully illustrated in "Powers of Ten," a > ten-minute film on line if you enter the title. Starting with a scale that > encompasses two people lying on a blanket along the lake shore in Chicago > and goes out ten powers, and then rapidly reverses and goes powers of ten > micro into the constituents of matter. Perceptually, what is solid and what > is empty space changes dynamically as one moves along the scales. > > Hopefully useful. > mike > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. >> mike >> >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: >> >>> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the >>> whole 390 + pagebook >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman >>> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows >>> >>> My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of my >>> message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not under >>> proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it in a >>> pdf, please send to the group. >>> If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and >>> post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile for >>> those interested in the issues. >>> >>> mike >>> >>> Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture >>> suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & C.S. >>> Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. >>> Mahwah, NJ. pp. >>> 335-360.* >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < >>> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Many thanks for this, Mike. >>>> >>>> I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in >>>> the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows >>>> and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a >>>> developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others >>>> which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks >>>> along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there >>>> are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, >>> interactions and intersubjectivity. >>>> >>>> I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of >>>> concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific >>>> contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards >>>> reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But >>>> in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future >>>> also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this >>>> idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way >>> we make sense of what flows our way. >>>> >>>> Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Rod >>>> >>>> On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: >>>> I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of >>>> culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref >>>> below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of >>>> culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between >>>> culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck >>>> me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a >>>> different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of >>>> mind, culture, and activity. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my >>>> own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces >>>> its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making >>>> things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other >>>> (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a >>>> racial, religious, or social group." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic >>>> process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is >>>> described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception >>>> "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of >>>> "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also >>>> associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or >>> social group." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting >>>> the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just >>>> list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the >>> chapter made. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stereotyping >>>> >>>> Homogenizing >>>> >>>> Essentializing >>>> >>>> Reifying >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, >>>> developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and >>>> spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but >>>> that flow is constrained by a cup. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the >>>> 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing >>>> ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >>>> ________________________________ >>>> [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif]>>> //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> >>>> >>>> This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely >>>> for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not >>>> the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the >>>> information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on >>> it. >>>> If you have received this email in error please let the sender know >>>> immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not >>>> necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University >>>> accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to >>>> scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept >>>> responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this >>>> email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services >>>> unless accompanied by an official order form. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object >> that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> >> >> > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From h2cmng@yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 6 14:59:14 2016 From: h2cmng@yahoo.co.uk (peter jones) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 21:59:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <85887F38-BB08-4D83-9F8B-96C9E9858F21@gmail.com> References: <85887F38-BB08-4D83-9F8B-96C9E9858F21@gmail.com> Message-ID: <924223122.18074215.1470520754586.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Surfaces - solid, liquid, virtual? https://www.jstor.org/stable/2108153?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents Avrum Stroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | Avrum Stroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAvrum Stroll (February 15, 1921 ? September 12, 2013) was a research professor at the University of California, San Diego.[1] Born in Oakland, California,[2] he was a distinguished philosopher and a noted scholar in the fields of epistemology, philosophy of language, and twentieth... | | | | View on en.wikipedia.org | Preview by Yahoo | | | | ? | Culture as a SUR-FACE - INTER-FACE verbal communication/other Cognitive - reflective - reflexive - with properties that may or may not resonate, flow (water - glass - rock...), sense (Flatland - reduced, capture, re-cord-er), collaborate (folded, pinched). Culture crystallized through art - several surfaces. Culture cut by technology, excised by censorship. Surfaces - extended - hypercube. Culture as a surface rend through revolution - rend for innovation / creativity Same surface different place. Would still refer to Serres on flows - change - choices....?Thanks Henry - all. Peter JonesCommunity Mental Health NurseCMHT BrooksideAughton StreetOrmskirk L39 3BH, UK+44 01772 773770& Graduate Student - Lancaster University: Technology Enhanced LearningBlogging at "Welcome to the QUAD"http://hodges-model.blogspot.com/http://twitter.com/h2cm From: HENRY SHONERD To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2016, 2:32 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows Mike, I could say Resonating Flowing Sensing Collaborating Would that be essentializing? Not a bad rap though.:) Henry > On Aug 5, 2016, at 6:20 PM, mike cole wrote: > > I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of culture > prominent in the literature on the relationship between culture and human > psychological processes. The characterization struck me forcefully as an > example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a different discourse > stream, providing food for thought on the topic of mind, culture, and > activity. > > > > One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my own, > Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces its origins > to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making things grow, > nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other (Social Psychology) > adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a racial, religious, or > social group." > > > > The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also associates > this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or social group." > > > > The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting the > entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just list > them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the chapter made. > > > > Stereotyping > > Homogenizing > > Essentializing > > Reifying > > > > There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, developmental, > perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and spoil the rug and need > to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but that flow is constrained by a > cup. > > > > The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > > > The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the 11 ox > paintings has induced me to think again about long standing ideas. Always > enlightening. Thanks. > > > mike > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From schuckthemonkey@gmail.com Sat Aug 6 15:37:06 2016 From: schuckthemonkey@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:37:06 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <5238A4A7-8205-4D18-A231-8DB3C52F52F1@gmail.com> References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> <5238A4A7-8205-4D18-A231-8DB3C52F52F1@gmail.com> Message-ID: That Beatles example was great. Metaphors may always carry the risk of literalness and reification, yet we need them so much to even get to the starting line. I personally found the cup metaphor so helpful as an *initial way* in (if not the end-all and be-all of metaphors "capturing" liquid modernity). The whole idea of a way in, an initial approach for the disoriented which then gets supplemented or replaced by other metaphors, might be a useful way also of conceiving it. Another metaphor I like when it comes to the recent discussion is that of water freezing into ice -- often unevenly and in unpredictable spots -- and perhaps later, melting again. I think of the cult-ure of Trump worship (pun conveniently provided by the language at hand) as an example of liquid spilling over, somewhat out of control. What would be the difference between containing it like a cup, and containing it as a temporarily frozen sheet of ice? Certainly, sometimes the ice suddenly gives way beneath and people plunge through what they thought was solid into a much less stable situation. On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 5:46 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Mike, > I have seen that video recently. Did you provide a link? > > There are programs where one can control the speed and direction of the > zooming fluidly between scales of nature, from the Planck constant to the > whole universe. You can do this with various fractals, including the > mandelbrot fractal, which is generated, like any fractal, with a very > simple algorithm. Amazingly intricate patterns. Zooming in and out gives > one the sense of time/space. > > Fractals, as you zoom, are showing you the algorithmic process in real > time. If you will, one can go forward (zooming in) and backward (zooming > out). There are many patterns in nature that look very fractal. Coastlines > and the branching patterns of plants and the brain are easy to simulate > with fractals. Through a still shot of a fractal you get an entity at a > point in time; zooming is perceiving a computing process across time. Is it > a stretch to see the hardware and software for fractal viewing as artifacts > for conceiving the simple, algorithmiic nature of creation? I wish I had > some links right now to show what I am talking about. Maybe others do. > Henry > > > > On Aug 6, 2016, at 12:58 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Rod, Larry, Rein, et al-- > > > > I, like Rein, worry about the cup metaphor. I was writing quickly and > using > > the cup as only one example. In some ways an unfortunate example, The > > spilled liquid could be absorbed by a table cloth, fall through slats in > > the floor, etc. Contained, managed ..... > > The cup metaphor is used widely in connection with the term, context, > which > > Ray McDermott criticized effectively back about 1993 in the Chaiklin/Lave > > book on activity and practice. > > > > I would like to suggest an additional way to think about solidity. In > terms > > of the time scale of change. > > > > I often give the example of a table. A table seems like a good candidate > > for a solid object. In discussing this in class, I sometimes slam my hand > > unexpectdly again the desk of podium and everyone jumps while i have to > > nurse my hand which is red and it stings. > > > > That table sure seems solid to me and to the audience as well. > > > > > > But the table is only solid relative to another object, in this case me. > It > > is changing on a very different time scale, constituted as it is of wood, > > formica, and a bit of metal. Come back in a thousand years and all that > > will be left of that table, if that much, will be the metal parts, even > if > > the table is not recycled by human beings and global warming or war does > > not de-compose the table along the way. > > > > The issue of scale is beautifully illustrated in "Powers of Ten," a > > ten-minute film on line if you enter the title. Starting with a scale > that > > encompasses two people lying on a blanket along the lake shore in Chicago > > and goes out ten powers, and then rapidly reverses and goes powers of ten > > micro into the constituents of matter. Perceptually, what is solid and > what > > is empty space changes dynamically as one moves along the scales. > > > > Hopefully useful. > > mike > > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > >> Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. > >> mike > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin > wrote: > >> > >>> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the > >>> whole 390 + pagebook > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman > >>> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows > >>> > >>> My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of > my > >>> message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not > under > >>> proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it > in a > >>> pdf, please send to the group. > >>> If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and > >>> post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile > for > >>> those interested in the issues. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture > >>> suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & > C.S. > >>> Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. > >>> Mahwah, NJ. pp. > >>> 335-360.* > >>> > >>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > >>> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Many thanks for this, Mike. > >>>> > >>>> I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in > >>>> the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows > >>>> and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a > >>>> developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others > >>>> which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks > >>>> along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there > >>>> are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, > >>> interactions and intersubjectivity. > >>>> > >>>> I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of > >>>> concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific > >>>> contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards > >>>> reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But > >>>> in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future > >>>> also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this > >>>> idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way > >>> we make sense of what flows our way. > >>>> > >>>> Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > >>>> > >>>> All the best, > >>>> > >>>> Rod > >>>> > >>>> On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > >>>> I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > >>>> culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > >>>> below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of > >>>> culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between > >>>> culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck > >>>> me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a > >>>> different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of > >>>> mind, culture, and activity. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my > >>>> own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces > >>>> its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making > >>>> things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other > >>>> (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a > >>>> racial, religious, or social group." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > >>>> process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > >>>> described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > >>>> "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > >>>> "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also > >>>> associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, > or > >>> social group." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting > >>>> the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just > >>>> list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the > >>> chapter made. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Stereotyping > >>>> > >>>> Homogenizing > >>>> > >>>> Essentializing > >>>> > >>>> Reifying > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, > >>>> developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and > >>>> spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but > >>>> that flow is constrained by a cup. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the > >>>> 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing > >>>> ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] >>>> //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > >>>> > >>>> This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > >>>> for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > >>>> the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > >>>> information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely > on > >>> it. > >>>> If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > >>>> immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > >>>> necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > >>>> accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > >>>> scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > >>>> responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > >>>> email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > >>>> unless accompanied by an official order form. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > >> that creates history. Ernst Boesch > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Aug 6 15:54:55 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 15:54:55 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> <5238A4A7-8205-4D18-A231-8DB3C52F52F1@gmail.com> Message-ID: The link to "powers of ten" is very long. Put that title in your browser and the Youtube version of the film ought to be first in line. The ice example is interesting for lots of reasons. I was thinking of places where earthquakes liquefy what felt like solid earth. The land of fractals and non-linear dynamics. mike On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Christopher Schuck < schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > That Beatles example was great. > > Metaphors may always carry the risk of literalness and reification, yet we > need them so much to even get to the starting line. I personally found the > cup metaphor so helpful as an *initial way* in (if not the end-all and > be-all of metaphors "capturing" liquid modernity). The whole idea of a way > in, an initial approach for the disoriented which then gets supplemented or > replaced by other metaphors, might be a useful way also of conceiving it. > Another metaphor I like when it comes to the recent discussion is that of > water freezing into ice -- often unevenly and in unpredictable spots -- and > perhaps later, melting again. I think of the cult-ure of Trump worship (pun > conveniently provided by the language at hand) as an example of liquid > spilling over, somewhat out of control. What would be the difference > between containing it like a cup, and containing it as a temporarily frozen > sheet of ice? Certainly, sometimes the ice suddenly gives way beneath and > people plunge through what they thought was solid into a much less stable > situation. > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 5:46 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > > > Mike, > > I have seen that video recently. Did you provide a link? > > > > There are programs where one can control the speed and direction of the > > zooming fluidly between scales of nature, from the Planck constant to the > > whole universe. You can do this with various fractals, including the > > mandelbrot fractal, which is generated, like any fractal, with a very > > simple algorithm. Amazingly intricate patterns. Zooming in and out gives > > one the sense of time/space. > > > > Fractals, as you zoom, are showing you the algorithmic process in real > > time. If you will, one can go forward (zooming in) and backward (zooming > > out). There are many patterns in nature that look very fractal. > Coastlines > > and the branching patterns of plants and the brain are easy to simulate > > with fractals. Through a still shot of a fractal you get an entity at a > > point in time; zooming is perceiving a computing process across time. Is > it > > a stretch to see the hardware and software for fractal viewing as > artifacts > > for conceiving the simple, algorithmiic nature of creation? I wish I had > > some links right now to show what I am talking about. Maybe others do. > > Henry > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2016, at 12:58 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Rod, Larry, Rein, et al-- > > > > > > I, like Rein, worry about the cup metaphor. I was writing quickly and > > using > > > the cup as only one example. In some ways an unfortunate example, The > > > spilled liquid could be absorbed by a table cloth, fall through slats > in > > > the floor, etc. Contained, managed ..... > > > The cup metaphor is used widely in connection with the term, context, > > which > > > Ray McDermott criticized effectively back about 1993 in the > Chaiklin/Lave > > > book on activity and practice. > > > > > > I would like to suggest an additional way to think about solidity. In > > terms > > > of the time scale of change. > > > > > > I often give the example of a table. A table seems like a good > candidate > > > for a solid object. In discussing this in class, I sometimes slam my > hand > > > unexpectdly again the desk of podium and everyone jumps while i have to > > > nurse my hand which is red and it stings. > > > > > > That table sure seems solid to me and to the audience as well. > > > > > > > > > But the table is only solid relative to another object, in this case > me. > > It > > > is changing on a very different time scale, constituted as it is of > wood, > > > formica, and a bit of metal. Come back in a thousand years and all that > > > will be left of that table, if that much, will be the metal parts, even > > if > > > the table is not recycled by human beings and global warming or war > does > > > not de-compose the table along the way. > > > > > > The issue of scale is beautifully illustrated in "Powers of Ten," a > > > ten-minute film on line if you enter the title. Starting with a scale > > that > > > encompasses two people lying on a blanket along the lake shore in > Chicago > > > and goes out ten powers, and then rapidly reverses and goes powers of > ten > > > micro into the constituents of matter. Perceptually, what is solid and > > what > > > is empty space changes dynamically as one moves along the scales. > > > > > > Hopefully useful. > > > mike > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > >> Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. > > >> mike > > >> > > >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the > > >>> whole 390 + pagebook > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman > > >>> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > > >>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows > > >>> > > >>> My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of > > my > > >>> message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not > > under > > >>> proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it > > in a > > >>> pdf, please send to the group. > > >>> If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and > > >>> post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems > worthwhile > > for > > >>> those interested in the issues. > > >>> > > >>> mike > > >>> > > >>> Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture > > >>> suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & > > C.S. > > >>> Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. > > >>> Mahwah, NJ. pp. > > >>> 335-360.* > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > > >>> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Many thanks for this, Mike. > > >>>> > > >>>> I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested > in > > >>>> the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down > flows > > >>>> and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a > > >>>> developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are > others > > >>>> which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks > > >>>> along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there > > >>>> are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, > > >>> interactions and intersubjectivity. > > >>>> > > >>>> I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of > > >>>> concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific > > >>>> contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards > > >>>> reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But > > >>>> in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the > future > > >>>> also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this > > >>>> idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the > way > > >>> we make sense of what flows our way. > > >>>> > > >>>> Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > > >>>> > > >>>> All the best, > > >>>> > > >>>> Rod > > >>>> > > >>>> On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > > >>>> I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > > >>>> culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > > >>>> below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of > > >>>> culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between > > >>>> culture and human psychological processes. The characterization > struck > > >>>> me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in > a > > >>>> different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic > of > > >>>> mind, culture, and activity. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as > my > > >>>> own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces > > >>>> its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making > > >>>> things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other > > >>>> (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of > a > > >>>> racial, religious, or social group." > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as > dynamic > > >>>> process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view > is > > >>>> described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity > conception > > >>>> "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > > >>>> "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also > > >>>> associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, > > or > > >>> social group." > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of > adopting > > >>>> the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will > just > > >>>> list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the > > >>> chapter made. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Stereotyping > > >>>> > > >>>> Homogenizing > > >>>> > > >>>> Essentializing > > >>>> > > >>>> Reifying > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, > > >>>> developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and > > >>>> spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but > > >>>> that flow is constrained by a cup. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of > the > > >>>> 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing > > >>>> ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> mike > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> > > >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > >>>> ________________________________ > > >>>> [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] > >>>> //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > > >>>> > > >>>> This email and any files with it are confidential and intended > solely > > >>>> for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > > >>>> the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of > the > > >>>> information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely > > on > > >>> it. > > >>>> If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > > >>>> immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are > not > > >>>> necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > > >>>> accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility > to > > >>>> scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not > accept > > >>>> responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in > this > > >>>> email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > > >>>> unless accompanied by an official order form. > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> > > >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object > > >> that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Aug 6 16:04:29 2016 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (greg.a.thompson@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 17:04:29 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> Message-ID: <99B8B64B-17C8-43F7-B033-3B28413BE870@gmail.com> Yes, mike, and as you have pointed out before the scale issue applies not just to timescales but also to spatial scales. At the sub-atomic level, the table appears to be mostly empty space whose thingy-ness is up for grabs. At the quantum level, it truly can be said, "all that is solid..." Greg Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2016, at 12:58 PM, mike cole wrote: > > Rod, Larry, Rein, et al-- > > I, like Rein, worry about the cup metaphor. I was writing quickly and using > the cup as only one example. In some ways an unfortunate example, The > spilled liquid could be absorbed by a table cloth, fall through slats in > the floor, etc. Contained, managed ..... > The cup metaphor is used widely in connection with the term, context, which > Ray McDermott criticized effectively back about 1993 in the Chaiklin/Lave > book on activity and practice. > > I would like to suggest an additional way to think about solidity. In terms > of the time scale of change. > > I often give the example of a table. A table seems like a good candidate > for a solid object. In discussing this in class, I sometimes slam my hand > unexpectdly again the desk of podium and everyone jumps while i have to > nurse my hand which is red and it stings. > > That table sure seems solid to me and to the audience as well. > > > But the table is only solid relative to another object, in this case me. It > is changing on a very different time scale, constituted as it is of wood, > formica, and a bit of metal. Come back in a thousand years and all that > will be left of that table, if that much, will be the metal parts, even if > the table is not recycled by human beings and global warming or war does > not de-compose the table along the way. > > The issue of scale is beautifully illustrated in "Powers of Ten," a > ten-minute film on line if you enter the title. Starting with a scale that > encompasses two people lying on a blanket along the lake shore in Chicago > and goes out ten powers, and then rapidly reverses and goes powers of ten > micro into the constituents of matter. Perceptually, what is solid and what > is empty space changes dynamically as one moves along the scales. > > Hopefully useful. > mike > >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >> Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. >> mike >> >>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin wrote: >>> >>> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the >>> whole 390 + pagebook >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman >>> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole >>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows >>> >>> My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of my >>> message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not under >>> proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it in a >>> pdf, please send to the group. >>> If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and >>> post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile for >>> those interested in the issues. >>> >>> mike >>> >>> Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture >>> suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & C.S. >>> Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. >>> Mahwah, NJ. pp. >>> 335-360.* >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < >>> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Many thanks for this, Mike. >>>> >>>> I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in >>>> the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows >>>> and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a >>>> developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others >>>> which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks >>>> along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there >>>> are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, >>> interactions and intersubjectivity. >>>> >>>> I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of >>>> concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific >>>> contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards >>>> reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But >>>> in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future >>>> also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this >>>> idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way >>> we make sense of what flows our way. >>>> >>>> Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Rod >>>> >>>> On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: >>>> I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of >>>> culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref >>>> below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of >>>> culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between >>>> culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck >>>> me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a >>>> different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of >>>> mind, culture, and activity. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my >>>> own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces >>>> its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making >>>> things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other >>>> (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a >>>> racial, religious, or social group." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic >>>> process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is >>>> described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception >>>> "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of >>>> "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also >>>> associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, or >>> social group." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting >>>> the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just >>>> list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the >>> chapter made. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stereotyping >>>> >>>> Homogenizing >>>> >>>> Essentializing >>>> >>>> Reifying >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, >>>> developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and >>>> spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but >>>> that flow is constrained by a cup. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the >>>> 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing >>>> ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >>>> ________________________________ >>>> [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif]>>> //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> >>>> >>>> This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely >>>> for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not >>>> the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the >>>> information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely on >>> it. >>>> If you have received this email in error please let the sender know >>>> immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not >>>> necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University >>>> accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to >>>> scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept >>>> responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this >>>> email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services >>>> unless accompanied by an official order form. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> >> >> -- >> >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object >> that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Aug 6 16:47:01 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:47:01 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: <99B8B64B-17C8-43F7-B033-3B28413BE870@gmail.com> References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> <99B8B64B-17C8-43F7-B033-3B28413BE870@gmail.com> Message-ID: That fits my understanding, Greg. More on non-linear modeling and its discontents in forthcoming MCA, maybe online now. mike On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:04 PM, wrote: > Yes, mike, and as you have pointed out before the scale issue applies not > just to timescales but also to spatial scales. At the sub-atomic level, the > table appears to be mostly empty space whose thingy-ness is up for grabs. > At the quantum level, it truly can be said, "all that is solid..." > > Greg > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 6, 2016, at 12:58 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Rod, Larry, Rein, et al-- > > > > I, like Rein, worry about the cup metaphor. I was writing quickly and > using > > the cup as only one example. In some ways an unfortunate example, The > > spilled liquid could be absorbed by a table cloth, fall through slats in > > the floor, etc. Contained, managed ..... > > The cup metaphor is used widely in connection with the term, context, > which > > Ray McDermott criticized effectively back about 1993 in the Chaiklin/Lave > > book on activity and practice. > > > > I would like to suggest an additional way to think about solidity. In > terms > > of the time scale of change. > > > > I often give the example of a table. A table seems like a good candidate > > for a solid object. In discussing this in class, I sometimes slam my hand > > unexpectdly again the desk of podium and everyone jumps while i have to > > nurse my hand which is red and it stings. > > > > That table sure seems solid to me and to the audience as well. > > > > > > But the table is only solid relative to another object, in this case me. > It > > is changing on a very different time scale, constituted as it is of wood, > > formica, and a bit of metal. Come back in a thousand years and all that > > will be left of that table, if that much, will be the metal parts, even > if > > the table is not recycled by human beings and global warming or war does > > not de-compose the table along the way. > > > > The issue of scale is beautifully illustrated in "Powers of Ten," a > > ten-minute film on line if you enter the title. Starting with a scale > that > > encompasses two people lying on a blanket along the lake shore in Chicago > > and goes out ten powers, and then rapidly reverses and goes powers of ten > > micro into the constituents of matter. Perceptually, what is solid and > what > > is empty space changes dynamically as one moves along the scales. > > > > Hopefully useful. > > mike > > > >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 10:04 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for forwarding, Peg et al. > >> mike > >> > >>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Peg Griffin > wrote: > >>> > >>> down.cenet.org.cn/upfile/19/20064111162198.pdf but it downloads the > >>> whole 390 + pagebook > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman > >>> .ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > >>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2016 11:22 AM > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows > >>> > >>> My apologies for not appending the reference. For some reason part of > my > >>> message disappeared, the ref included. Odd wanderings of fingers not > under > >>> proper control. I only have this book in hard copy. If anyone has it > in a > >>> pdf, please send to the group. > >>> If nothing turns up in the next day or so I will scan the chapter and > >>> post it. I do not love all that it has to say, but it seems worthwhile > for > >>> those interested in the issues. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> Adams, G., & Markus, H.R., (2003). Toward a conception of culture > >>> suitable for a social psychology of culture. In, M. Schaller, M., & > C.S. > >>> Crandall (Eds.). *The Psychological Foundations of Culture. Erlbaum. > >>> Mahwah, NJ. pp. > >>> 335-360.* > >>> > >>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Rod Parker-Rees < > >>> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Many thanks for this, Mike. > >>>> > >>>> I too would love to read this article. I am particularly interested in > >>>> the way many cultures (some more than others) tend to nail down flows > >>>> and processes by turning verbs into nouns. While there is a > >>>> developmental model which emphasises flow and change there are others > >>>> which aim to halt or dam the flow by identifying stages (like locks > >>>> along a river?) which can be thought about more as things. And there > >>>> are versions of social psychology which focus more on relationships, > >>> interactions and intersubjectivity. > >>>> > >>>> I think there is something about the necessary abstractness of > >>>> concepts (which have to be sufficiently pulled out from specific > >>>> contexts to allow them to be shared) that draws them towards > >>>> reification, turning a flow into a thing (the river, the flow!). But > >>>> in our lived experience the past runs into the present and the future > >>>> also shapes the flow. I think the idea of perezhivanie catches this > >>>> idea of a reciprocity between our past social experiences and the way > >>> we make sense of what flows our way. > >>>> > >>>> Sorry if this seems vague and fluid! > >>>> > >>>> All the best, > >>>> > >>>> Rod > >>>> > >>>> On 6 Aug 2016 1:23 am, mike cole wrote: > >>>> I stumbled over an article on the "the psychological foundations of > >>>> culture" with a summary/discussion article by Adams and Markus. (ref > >>>> below). The authors contrast two prominent definitions/theories of > >>>> culture prominent in the literature on the relationship between > >>>> culture and human psychological processes. The characterization struck > >>>> me forcefully as an example of Bauman's solid-liquid distinction in a > >>>> different discourse stream, providing food for thought on the topic of > >>>> mind, culture, and activity. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> One approach is closely related to developmental approaches such as my > >>>> own, Barbara Rogoff, Patricia Greenfield, Mike Tomasello). It traces > >>>> its origins to ploughshares and agriculture, the process of making > >>>> things grow, nurturing. a process transpiring over time. The other > >>>> (Social Psychology) adopts "the customary beliefs, social forms, of a > >>>> racial, religious, or social group." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The first, developmental approach is said to view "culture as dynamic > >>>> process or flowing medium" while the second, social psychology view is > >>>> described as an "entity conception of culture." The entity conception > >>>> "implies a conception of culture as a relatively 'fixed' system of > >>>> "customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits." It also > >>>> associates this system with readily identifiable 'racial, religious, > or > >>> social group." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The authors then list "several undesireable consequences" of adopting > >>>> the entity point of view. I found these very interesting. I will just > >>>> list them. If there is sufficient interest I can get a scan of the > >>> chapter made. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Stereotyping > >>>> > >>>> Homogenizing > >>>> > >>>> Essentializing > >>>> > >>>> Reifying > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> There is, unfortunately, no similar list for the liquid, > >>>> developmental, perspective. Liquids, Bauman remind us can spill and > >>>> spoil the rug and need to be contained. They flow, to be sure, but > >>>> that flow is constrained by a cup. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The authors adopt a view they call "culture as patterns." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The juxtaposition of these readings and the ongoing discussion of the > >>>> 11 ox paintings has induced me to think again about long standing > >>>> ideas. Always enlightening. Thanks. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> > >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> [http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/images/email_footer.gif] >>>> //www.plymouth.ac.uk/worldclass> > >>>> > >>>> This email and any files with it are confidential and intended solely > >>>> for the use of the recipient to whom it is addressed. If you are not > >>>> the intended recipient then copying, distribution or other use of the > >>>> information contained is strictly prohibited and you should not rely > on > >>> it. > >>>> If you have received this email in error please let the sender know > >>>> immediately and delete it from your system(s). Internet emails are not > >>>> necessarily secure. While we take every care, Plymouth University > >>>> accepts no responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to > >>>> scan emails and their attachments. Plymouth University does not accept > >>>> responsibility for any changes made after it was sent. Nothing in this > >>>> email or its attachments constitutes an order for goods or services > >>>> unless accompanied by an official order form. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > >> that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From annalisa@unm.edu Sat Aug 6 17:49:08 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 00:49:08 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Solids and Liquids/Entities and dynamic flows In-Reply-To: References: <002b01d1effd$a759ce60$f60d6b20$@att.net> <5238A4A7-8205-4D18-A231-8DB3C52F52F1@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Chris, Your metaphor of freezing ice reminded me of those ice cube trays in which you pull the lever to release the ice cubes (so we can have iced tea!) Given that iced tea is "captured liquid modernity," in a glass, or course! (It was made popular from a World's Fair in the early 20th century, I believe, which would make it modern and liquid on both ends of the spectrum!) In a sense, the metaphor of iced tea is an intersection of two different orders of reality. On the one hand the ice, and the other the tea, and then what happens when the ice melts to further dilute the tea. Hopefully the metaphor doesn't fail, but if it does, I do attribute it to a nice summer day. Kind regards, Annalisa From leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com Sat Aug 6 23:48:03 2016 From: leifstrandberg.ab@telia.com (Leif Strandberg) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 08:48:03 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Against political categorization/the politics of partisanship In-Reply-To: <1A019864-CE91-42F1-9922-0B72E234CD90@eastsideinstitute.org> References: <1A019864-CE91-42F1-9922-0B72E234CD90@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: <78A2DD3A-C26E-4FE2-A327-680DBEB657D7@telia.com> Thank you, Lois. it is wonderful to hear how Jackie is outspoken about politics in general - and the US presidential election in particular. I remember Fred Newman's speech on the same subject many years ago. I'm not interested in winning, he said. I am interested in the possibilities to choose. Leif Sweden 6 aug 2016 kl. 15:58 skrev Lois Holzman : > I offer this talk by Jackie Salit at the American Citizens Summit on the American political situation because it steps out of the box of the identities and personalities of the candidates, speaks to how the exercise of power gets turned into authority, to our alienation, and to the authoritarianism of ?knowing." > > http://americancitizenssummit.com/program/142 > > Wanted folks here to know this entire summit on transpartisan politics is going on (and many of the other talks are worth listening to). > > Lois > > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Fax +1.718.797.3966 > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter > Blogs > Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World > All Stars Project > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sun Aug 7 11:48:35 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 11:48:35 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] meaning in action (movement) of living form Message-ID: <57a7828d.4956420a.7d1a.602f@mx.google.com> I am never sure when to continue a thread and when to start a new thread. Rein was mentioning *pattern* formation in relation to culture. My preoccupation is to focus on meaning and meaning *potential*. Annalisa recently attached an article by John Shotter exploring the methods of Vygotsky and Goethe. Shorter is making a distinction between living form and dead form and posits a particular pattern occurring *within* the reciprocal movements of living forms that do not occur when engaged with dead forms. Shorter is making a case that, ? it is only from within our involvements with other living things that this KIND of meaningful, responsive, understanding becomes available to us. THIS kind of meaningful pattern formation, experienced as movement from *within* responsive type *understanding*, exists through responsiveness towards other living forms. Inquiry into this kind of *meaning potential* requires methods focused on growing things. The contrast Shotter makes is with dead assemblages that can be *constructed* piece by piece from what he refers to as (objective) parts. These parts of an assemblage retain their character and value irrespective of whether they are part of an assemblage. With living forms, this is impossible for the parts to retain their character. What is the central focus for Shotter is where the meaning *exists*?. Shorter focuses on the present activity in terms of living *within* these living -responsive ? forms As he emphasizes it is only from within our involvements with other living forms that these KINDS of meaningful patterns *arise* and become *available* (conscious??) to us in our movements. May or may not contribute to the topic of perezhivanie and liquid modernity and *containing* (not containers as reified essence). Sent from my Windows 10 phone From annalisa@unm.edu Sun Aug 7 14:17:13 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 21:17:13 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Design and Science Message-ID: Fascinating ! https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/07/nasa-secret-art-studio-rocket-science-jet-propulsion-laboratory http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/heres-what-happens-when-neuroscientists-designers-team-up-explain-scientific-research-180959781/ From lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Sun Aug 7 19:01:58 2016 From: lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org (Lois Holzman) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 22:01:58 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Against political categorization/the politics of partisanship In-Reply-To: <78A2DD3A-C26E-4FE2-A327-680DBEB657D7@telia.com> References: <1A019864-CE91-42F1-9922-0B72E234CD90@eastsideinstitute.org> <78A2DD3A-C26E-4FE2-A327-680DBEB657D7@telia.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Leif. I?m glad it resonated for you to place the two candidates in a broader framing! Lois Lois Holzman Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy 119 West 23 St, suite 902 New York, NY 10011 Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 Fax +1.718.797.3966 lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org Social Media Facebook? | LinkedIn | Twitter Blogs Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America Websites Lois Holzman | East Side?Institute | Performing the World All Stars Project > On Aug 7, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Leif Strandberg wrote: > > Thank you, Lois. it is wonderful to hear how Jackie is outspoken about politics in general - and the US presidential election in particular. I remember Fred Newman's speech on the same subject many years ago. I'm not interested in winning, he said. I am interested in the possibilities to choose. > Leif > Sweden > 6 aug 2016 kl. 15:58 skrev Lois Holzman : > >> I offer this talk by Jackie Salit at the American Citizens Summit on the American political situation because it steps out of the box of the identities and personalities of the candidates, speaks to how the exercise of power gets turned into authority, to our alienation, and to the authoritarianism of ?knowing." >> >> http://americancitizenssummit.com/program/142 >> >> Wanted folks here to know this entire summit on transpartisan politics is going on (and many of the other talks are worth listening to). >> >> Lois >> >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter >> Blogs >> Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World >> All Stars Project >> >> >> > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Aug 8 15:01:25 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 15:01:25 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: meaning in action (movement) of living form In-Reply-To: <57a7828d.4956420a.7d1a.602f@mx.google.com> References: <57a7828d.4956420a.7d1a.602f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Your remarks about Goethe resonate for me, Larry. See the attached for my (brief!) ruminations on "Grey is every theory, evergreen the tree of life." In my case the idea was encountered in connection with Luria, which reinforced the feeling that we have quite similar world view under discussion despite the breadth of citations in the current multiplex discussion. mike On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Lplarry wrote: > I am never sure when to continue a thread and when to start a new thread. > Rein was mentioning *pattern* formation in relation to culture. > My preoccupation is to focus on meaning and meaning *potential*. > > Annalisa recently attached an article by John Shotter exploring the > methods of Vygotsky and Goethe. > Shorter is making a distinction between living form and dead form and > posits a particular pattern occurring *within* the reciprocal movements of > living forms that do not occur when engaged with dead forms. > Shorter is making a case that, > ? it is only from within our involvements with other living things that > this KIND of meaningful, responsive, understanding becomes available to us. > > THIS kind of meaningful pattern formation, experienced as movement from > *within* responsive type *understanding*, exists through responsiveness > towards other living forms. Inquiry into this kind of *meaning potential* > requires methods focused on growing things. > > The contrast Shotter makes is with dead assemblages that can be > *constructed* piece by piece from what he refers to as (objective) parts. > These parts of an assemblage retain their character and value irrespective > of whether they are part of an assemblage. > With living forms, this is impossible for the parts to retain their > character. > What is the central focus for Shotter is where the meaning *exists*?. > Shorter focuses on the present activity in terms of living *within* these > living -responsive ? forms > > As he emphasizes it is only from within our involvements with other living > forms that these KINDS of meaningful patterns *arise* and become > *available* (conscious??) to us in our movements. > > May or may not contribute to the topic of perezhivanie and liquid > modernity and *containing* (not containers as reified essence). > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: faust.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26624 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160808/b28383a1/attachment.doc From anamshane@gmail.com Mon Aug 8 16:25:34 2016 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2016 23:25:34 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am looking for a syllabus on sociocultural theories - for a graduate seminar to get diverse curricular topics. Can you send it to me, please - if you are teaching such a course. Thanks a lot! Ana -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 From ablunden@mira.net Mon Aug 8 17:54:17 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 10:54:17 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: Dear Andy, Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it took to make a number of documentary films around the theme of the transformability of human psychic development. Not only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' to all of them and was quite closely involved in their making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one means in terms of how well they portrayed the psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The director and writer had their own ideas of what could make powerful television and parts of all these films are technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and even for a time affected social policy at the national level (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As borboletas de Zagorsk.: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F--NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting companies too, so a thorough search might find other leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible print, and of course probably loses something in translation of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > Hi Andy, > I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk > > http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ > http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education > /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/ ?read this one for the latest > http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's site > > I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and learned of his work with conductive education from him. > > I hope this is helpful. > > Lois > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Fax +1.718.797.3966 > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter > Blogs > Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World > All Stars Project > > > >> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >> >> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. >> >> Andy >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Mon Aug 8 19:05:28 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 11:05:28 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: That explain why my search for an English version of it was fruitless. Wagner On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: > > Dear Andy, > Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years ago the world > was rather different from today and the BBC was easily persuaded to invest > the small fortune that it took to make a number of documentary films around > the theme of the transformability of human psychic development. Not only > did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' to all of them and > was quite closely involved in their making. The BBC distributed information > to viewers who wrote in after seeing the programmes, and even published a > small book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little optimism, > but the world changed... They were quite good films in their way. Not at a > technical level, if by that one means in terms of how well they portrayed > the psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each concerned, > but as propaganda that move people who knew. The director and writer had > their own ideas of what could make powerful television and parts of all > these films are technically weak at what I regarded as their central > themes. What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul the > producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their head. One of the > films enjoyed some critical acclaim and even for a time affected social > policy at the national level (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many > professionals in the relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The > Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might have been > better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At the superficial level it > portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev > Posad). that was the concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, > and of course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and > upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the social-cultural/historical > understanding of L. S. Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding > and what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my role in all > this. I did not make them and had no formal ownership. Ownership was with > the BBC and the BBC is notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? > hence their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy tapes of > these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but following major > reorganisation at the BBC, including closure of its Documentaries > Department, this facility disappeared. A few years ago I wrote to ask about > the present situation but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to > find out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who could lean on > the organisation! As an an immediate response to your question about > availability' of The Butterflies of Zagorsk I can give only the same answer > that I have had to give so many times over the years. Unless you come > across a copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. I do > not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous times for me), nor > do I think that Ann Paul (long now retired) has either. I am in Germany for > a few days at the moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that > occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! Of course, if > your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime you can watch this film on > YouTube, under the title of As borboletas de Zagorsk.: > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F--NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I > suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' version sold abroad > by the BBC, probably for broadcast in Brazil. It sold the film to other > foreign broadcasting companies too, so a thorough search might find other > leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible print, and of > course probably loses something in translation of what the original > actually said. Look up the Portuguese title on Google, though, and you will > see that even so the film is still powerful enough to attract attention. > Best answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/ > book/origins-collective-decision-making > On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > >> Hi Andy, >> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk >> >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ < >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/> >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education < >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education> >> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education >> -the-unfinished-story/ > 016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/>?read this one for >> the latest >> http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's >> site >> >> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the >> documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and >> learned of his work with conductive education from him. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Lois >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn < >> http://www.%20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter < >> https://twitter.com/LoisHolzman> >> Blogs >> Psychology Today > m/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < >> http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America > uthor/lois/> >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < >> http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World < >> http://www.performingtheworld.org/> >> All Stars Project >> >> >> >>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >>> >>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in >>> the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and >>> they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to >>> the "conductor" of an orchestra. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>> >> >> >> From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Mon Aug 8 22:03:35 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 14:03:35 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: Dear all, The link from Andrew is broken, here is one working link for the Portuguese dubbed bad old VHS ripped "Borboletas de Zagorsk" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEaHMxi7wE Wagner On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Wagner Luiz Schmit wrote: > That explain why my search for an English version of it was fruitless. > > Wagner > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > >> Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: >> >> Dear Andy, >> Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years ago the world >> was rather different from today and the BBC was easily persuaded to invest >> the small fortune that it took to make a number of documentary films around >> the theme of the transformability of human psychic development. Not only >> did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' to all of them and >> was quite closely involved in their making. The BBC distributed information >> to viewers who wrote in after seeing the programmes, and even published a >> small book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little optimism, >> but the world changed... They were quite good films in their way. Not at a >> technical level, if by that one means in terms of how well they portrayed >> the psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each concerned, >> but as propaganda that move people who knew. The director and writer had >> their own ideas of what could make powerful television and parts of all >> these films are technically weak at what I regarded as their central >> themes. What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul the >> producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their head. One of the >> films enjoyed some critical acclaim and even for a time affected social >> policy at the national level (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many >> professionals in the relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The >> Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might have been >> better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At the superficial level it >> portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev >> Posad). that was the concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, >> and of course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and >> upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the social-cultural/historical >> understanding of L. S. Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding >> and what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my role in all >> this. I did not make them and had no formal ownership. Ownership was with >> the BBC and the BBC is notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? >> hence their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy tapes of >> these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but following major >> reorganisation at the BBC, including closure of its Documentaries >> Department, this facility disappeared. A few years ago I wrote to ask about >> the present situation but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to >> find out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who could lean on >> the organisation! As an an immediate response to your question about >> availability' of The Butterflies of Zagorsk I can give only the same answer >> that I have had to give so many times over the years. Unless you come >> across a copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. I do >> not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous times for me), nor >> do I think that Ann Paul (long now retired) has either. I am in Germany for >> a few days at the moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that >> occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! Of course, if >> your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime you can watch this film on >> YouTube, under the title of As borboletas de Zagorsk.: >> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F--NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I >> suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' version sold abroad >> by the BBC, probably for broadcast in Brazil. It sold the film to other >> foreign broadcasting companies too, so a thorough search might find other >> leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible print, and of >> course probably loses something in translation of what the original >> actually said. Look up the Portuguese title on Google, though, and you will >> see that even so the film is still powerful enough to attract attention. >> Best answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/ >> book/origins-collective-decision-making >> On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: >> >>> Hi Andy, >>> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk >>> >>> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ < >>> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/> >>> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education < >>> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education> >>> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education >>> -the-unfinished-story/ >> 016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/>?read this one for >>> the latest >>> http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's >>> site >>> >>> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the >>> documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and >>> learned of his work with conductive education from him. >>> >>> I hope this is helpful. >>> >>> Lois >>> >>> Lois Holzman >>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >>> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >>> New York, NY 10011 >>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >>> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >>> Social Media >>> Facebook | LinkedIn < >>> http://www.%20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter < >>> https://twitter.com/LoisHolzman> >>> Blogs >>> Psychology Today >> m/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < >>> http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America >> uthor/lois/> >>> Websites >>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < >>> http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World < >>> http://www.performingtheworld.org/> >>> All Stars Project >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>>> >>>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >>>> >>>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in >>>> the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and >>>> they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to >>>> the "conductor" of an orchestra. >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Andy Blunden >>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >>>> >>> >>> >>> > From nataliag@sfu.ca Tue Aug 9 18:05:59 2016 From: nataliag@sfu.ca (Natalia Gajdamaschko) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 18:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1169008806.61052010.1470791159841.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Hi Ana, My Vygotsky seminar -- in the mail to you! Enjoy! Cheers, Natalia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ana Marjanovic-Shane" To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 4:25:34 PM Subject: [Xmca-l] Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar Dear colleagues, I am looking for a syllabus on sociocultural theories - for a graduate seminar to get diverse curricular topics. Can you send it to me, please - if you are teaching such a course. Thanks a lot! Ana -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 From nataliag@sfu.ca Tue Aug 9 18:15:10 2016 From: nataliag@sfu.ca (Natalia Gajdamaschko) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 18:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> Message-ID: <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Hi Andy, I have a copy of "Butterflies of Zagorsk" and it is not a piroted one, it was bought by Simon Fraser University at my request many years ago from BBC. Students like it. Cheers, Natalia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Blunden" To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:54:17 PM Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: Dear Andy, Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it took to make a number of documentary films around the theme of the transformability of human psychic development. Not only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' to all of them and was quite closely involved in their making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one means in terms of how well they portrayed the psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The director and writer had their own ideas of what could make powerful television and parts of all these films are technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and even for a time affected social policy at the national level (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As borboletas de Zagorsk.: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F--NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting companies too, so a thorough search might find other leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible print, and of course probably loses something in translation of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > Hi Andy, > I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk > > http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ > http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education > /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/ ?read this one for the latest > http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's site > > I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and learned of his work with conductive education from him. > > I hope this is helpful. > > Lois > > Lois Holzman > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > New York, NY 10011 > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > Fax +1.718.797.3966 > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > Social Media > Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter > Blogs > Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America > Websites > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World > All Stars Project > > > >> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >> >> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. >> >> Andy >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Andy Blunden >> http://home.mira.net/~andy >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > From ablunden@mira.net Tue Aug 9 18:19:57 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 11:19:57 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Message-ID: <92776a97-9320-4b93-8bce-eda40d554bea@mira.net> Wow! I think people on this list would like to see it. Any chance you could convince your university to share it more widely? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 10/08/2016 11:15 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > Hi Andy, > I have a copy of "Butterflies of Zagorsk" and it is not a pirated one, it was bought by Simon Fraser University at my request many years ago from BBC. Students like it. > Cheers, > Natalia. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Blunden" > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:54:17 PM > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: > > Dear Andy, > Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years > ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC > was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it > took to make a number of documentary films around the theme > of the transformability of human psychic development. Not > only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' > to all of them and was quite closely involved in their > making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote > in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small > book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little > optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good > films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one > means in terms of how well they portrayed the > psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each > concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The > director and writer had their own ideas of what could make > powerful television and parts of all these films are > technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. > What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul > the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their > head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and > even for a time affected social policy at the national level > (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the > relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The > Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might > have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At > the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind > Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the > concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of > course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and > upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the > social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. > Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and > what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my > role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal > ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is > notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence > their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy > tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but > following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure > of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. > A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation > but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find > out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who > could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response > to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of > Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to > give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a > copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. > I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous > times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now > retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the > moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that > occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! > Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime > you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As > borboletas de Zagorsk.: > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F--NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I > suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' > version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in > Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting > companies too, so a thorough search might find other > leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible > print, and of course probably loses something in translation > of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese > title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the > film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best > answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: >> Hi Andy, >> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk >> >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education >> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/ ?read this one for the latest >> http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's site >> >> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and learned of his work with conductive education from him. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Lois >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter >> Blogs >> Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World >> All Stars Project >> >> >> >>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >>> >>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> > From nataliag@sfu.ca Tue Aug 9 18:25:06 2016 From: nataliag@sfu.ca (Natalia Gajdamaschko) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 18:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: <92776a97-9320-4b93-8bce-eda40d554bea@mira.net> References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> <92776a97-9320-4b93-8bce-eda40d554bea@mira.net> Message-ID: <49073256.61061323.1470792306831.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> I am not sure, Andy, but will ask -- via interlibrary loan, perhaps? I don't think we can just broadcast it here. NG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Blunden" To: "Natalia Gajdamaschko" , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:19:57 PM Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism Wow! I think people on this list would like to see it. Any chance you could convince your university to share it more widely? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 10/08/2016 11:15 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > Hi Andy, > I have a copy of "Butterflies of Zagorsk" and it is not a pirated one, it was bought by Simon Fraser University at my request many years ago from BBC. Students like it. > Cheers, > Natalia. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Blunden" > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:54:17 PM > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: > > Dear Andy, > Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years > ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC > was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it > took to make a number of documentary films around the theme > of the transformability of human psychic development. Not > only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' > to all of them and was quite closely involved in their > making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote > in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small > book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little > optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good > films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one > means in terms of how well they portrayed the > psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each > concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The > director and writer had their own ideas of what could make > powerful television and parts of all these films are > technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. > What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul > the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their > head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and > even for a time affected social policy at the national level > (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the > relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The > Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might > have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At > the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind > Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the > concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of > course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and > upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the > social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. > Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and > what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my > role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal > ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is > notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence > their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy > tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but > following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure > of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. > A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation > but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find > out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who > could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response > to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of > Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to > give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a > copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. > I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous > times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now > retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the > moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that > occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! > Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime > you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As > borboletas de Zagorsk.: > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F--NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I > suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' > version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in > Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting > companies too, so a thorough search might find other > leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible > print, and of course probably loses something in translation > of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese > title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the > film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best > answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: >> Hi Andy, >> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk >> >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education >> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/ ?read this one for the latest >> http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's site >> >> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and learned of his work with conductive education from him. >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> Lois >> >> Lois Holzman >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 >> New York, NY 10011 >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org >> Social Media >> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter >> Blogs >> Psychology Today | Psychology of Becoming | Mad in America >> Websites >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World >> All Stars Project >> >> >> >>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? >>> >>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to the "conductor" of an orchestra. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Andy Blunden >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> > From ellampert@gmail.com Tue Aug 9 18:37:17 2016 From: ellampert@gmail.com (Elina) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 21:37:17 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56BDACF3-8D50-4078-8D10-D2C2FB399C37@gmail.com> Hi Ana, I used to teach doctoral seminar on international perspectives on cultural-historical psychology and activity theory at Columbia. Will look for it. How do you put such seminar into the system? Who is it for? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > I am looking for a syllabus on sociocultural theories - for a graduate > seminar to get diverse curricular topics. Can you send it to me, please - > if you are teaching such a course. > > Thanks a lot! > > Ana > > > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 From anamshane@gmail.com Tue Aug 9 18:42:57 2016 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 01:42:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: <1169008806.61052010.1470791159841.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> References: <1169008806.61052010.1470791159841.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Message-ID: Dear Natalia! Thanks a LOT Ana On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:09 PM Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > Hi Ana, > My Vygotsky seminar -- in the mail to you! Enjoy! > Cheers, > Natalia. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ana Marjanovic-Shane" > To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu > Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 4:25:34 PM > Subject: [Xmca-l] Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > > Dear colleagues, > > I am looking for a syllabus on sociocultural theories - for a graduate > seminar to get diverse curricular topics. Can you send it to me, please - > if you are teaching such a course. > > Thanks a lot! > > Ana > > > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Tue Aug 9 19:36:36 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 11:36:36 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: <49073256.61061323.1470792306831.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> <92776a97-9320-4b93-8bce-eda40d554bea@mira.net> <49073256.61061323.1470792306831.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Message-ID: Dear Natalia, Can it be "shared" as an free e-learning module? So people can register to this "online class" and watch it? I speak Portuguese, but I wanted to show this movie to some colleagues here in Japan that can understand English. Wagner On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > I am not sure, Andy, but will ask -- via interlibrary loan, perhaps? I > don't think we can just broadcast it here. > NG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Blunden" > To: "Natalia Gajdamaschko" , "eXtended Mind, Culture, > Activity" > Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:19:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > Wow! I think people on this list would like to see it. Any > chance you could convince your university to share it more > widely? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 10/08/2016 11:15 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > I have a copy of "Butterflies of Zagorsk" and it is not a pirated one, > it was bought by Simon Fraser University at my request many years ago from > BBC. Students like it. > > Cheers, > > Natalia. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Blunden" > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:54:17 PM > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > > > Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: > > > > Dear Andy, > > Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years > > ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC > > was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it > > took to make a number of documentary films around the theme > > of the transformability of human psychic development. Not > > only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' > > to all of them and was quite closely involved in their > > making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote > > in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small > > book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little > > optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good > > films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one > > means in terms of how well they portrayed the > > psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each > > concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The > > director and writer had their own ideas of what could make > > powerful television and parts of all these films are > > technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. > > What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul > > the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their > > head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and > > even for a time affected social policy at the national level > > (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the > > relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The > > Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might > > have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At > > the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind > > Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the > > concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of > > course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and > > upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the > > social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. > > Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and > > what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my > > role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal > > ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is > > notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence > > their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy > > tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but > > following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure > > of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. > > A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation > > but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find > > out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who > > could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response > > to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of > > Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to > > give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a > > copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. > > I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous > > times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now > > retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the > > moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that > > occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! > > Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime > > you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As > > borboletas de Zagorsk.: > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F-- > NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I > > suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' > > version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in > > Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting > > companies too, so a thorough search might find other > > leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible > > print, and of course probably loses something in translation > > of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese > > title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the > > film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best > > answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > >> Hi Andy, > >> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk > >> > >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ < > http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/> > >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education > > >> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive- > education-the-unfinished-story/ 2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/>?read this one for > the latest > >> http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's > site > >> > >> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the > documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and > learned of his work with conductive education from him. > >> > >> I hope this is helpful. > >> > >> Lois > >> > >> Lois Holzman > >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > >> New York, NY 10011 > >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 > >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > >> Social Media > >> Facebook | LinkedIn < > http://www.%20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter < > https://twitter.com/LoisHolzman> > >> Blogs > >> Psychology Today com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < > http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America author/lois/> > >> Websites > >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < > http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World performingtheworld.org/> > >> All Stars Project > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > >>> > >>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? > >>> > >>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in > the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and > they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to > the "conductor" of an orchestra. > >>> > >>> Andy > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Andy Blunden > >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > >> > > > > > From nataliag@sfu.ca Tue Aug 9 20:12:39 2016 From: nataliag@sfu.ca (Natalia Gajdamaschko) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 20:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> <92776a97-9320-4b93-8bce-eda40d554bea@mira.net> <49073256.61061323.1470792306831.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Message-ID: <1971621059.61133808.1470798759465.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Dear Wagner, I'll try to ask at SFU campus about some options, including the one you are proposing. It will have to wait until September, however. Best, Natalia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wagner Luiz Schmit" To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 7:36:36 PM Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism Dear Natalia, Can it be "shared" as an free e-learning module? So people can register to this "online class" and watch it? I speak Portuguese, but I wanted to show this movie to some colleagues here in Japan that can understand English. Wagner On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > I am not sure, Andy, but will ask -- via interlibrary loan, perhaps? I > don't think we can just broadcast it here. > NG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Blunden" > To: "Natalia Gajdamaschko" , "eXtended Mind, Culture, > Activity" > Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:19:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > Wow! I think people on this list would like to see it. Any > chance you could convince your university to share it more > widely? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 10/08/2016 11:15 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > I have a copy of "Butterflies of Zagorsk" and it is not a pirated one, > it was bought by Simon Fraser University at my request many years ago from > BBC. Students like it. > > Cheers, > > Natalia. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Blunden" > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:54:17 PM > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > > > Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: > > > > Dear Andy, > > Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years > > ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC > > was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it > > took to make a number of documentary films around the theme > > of the transformability of human psychic development. Not > > only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' > > to all of them and was quite closely involved in their > > making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote > > in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small > > book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little > > optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good > > films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one > > means in terms of how well they portrayed the > > psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each > > concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The > > director and writer had their own ideas of what could make > > powerful television and parts of all these films are > > technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. > > What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul > > the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their > > head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and > > even for a time affected social policy at the national level > > (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the > > relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The > > Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might > > have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At > > the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind > > Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the > > concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of > > course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and > > upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the > > social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. > > Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and > > what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my > > role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal > > ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is > > notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence > > their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy > > tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but > > following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure > > of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. > > A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation > > but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find > > out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who > > could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response > > to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of > > Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to > > give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a > > copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. > > I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous > > times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now > > retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the > > moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that > > occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! > > Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime > > you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As > > borboletas de Zagorsk.: > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F-- > NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I > > suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' > > version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in > > Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting > > companies too, so a thorough search might find other > > leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible > > print, and of course probably loses something in translation > > of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese > > title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the > > film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best > > answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > >> Hi Andy, > >> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk > >> > >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ < > http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/> > >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising-conductive-education > > >> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive- > education-the-unfinished-story/ 2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/>?read this one for > the latest > >> http://www.conductive-world.info ?Andrew's > site > >> > >> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the > documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) and > learned of his work with conductive education from him. > >> > >> I hope this is helpful. > >> > >> Lois > >> > >> Lois Holzman > >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > >> New York, NY 10011 > >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 > >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > >> Social Media > >> Facebook | LinkedIn < > http://www.%20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter < > https://twitter.com/LoisHolzman> > >> Blogs > >> Psychology Today com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < > http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America author/lois/> > >> Websites > >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < > http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World performingtheworld.org/> > >> All Stars Project > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > >>> > >>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? > >>> > >>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used in > the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and > they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to > the "conductor" of an orchestra. > >>> > >>> Andy > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Andy Blunden > >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > >> > > > > > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Tue Aug 9 20:18:04 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:18:04 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism In-Reply-To: <1971621059.61133808.1470798759465.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> References: <0349C607-EB27-4263-AA61-881D3DA8AEDD@eastsideinstitute.org> <344096017.61057345.1470791710217.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> <92776a97-9320-4b93-8bce-eda40d554bea@mira.net> <49073256.61061323.1470792306831.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> <1971621059.61133808.1470798759465.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Message-ID: Dear Natalia, Thank you very much for trying! At least we know a copy exists somewhere. Thanks and all the best for you. Wagner On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > Dear Wagner, > I'll try to ask at SFU campus about some options, including the one you > are proposing. > It will have to wait until September, however. > Best, > Natalia. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wagner Luiz Schmit" > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 7:36:36 PM > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > Dear Natalia, > > Can it be "shared" as an free e-learning module? So people can register to > this "online class" and watch it? I speak Portuguese, but I wanted to show > this movie to some colleagues here in Japan that can understand English. > > Wagner > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 10:25 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko > wrote: > > > I am not sure, Andy, but will ask -- via interlibrary loan, perhaps? I > > don't think we can just broadcast it here. > > NG > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Blunden" > > To: "Natalia Gajdamaschko" , "eXtended Mind, Culture, > > Activity" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 6:19:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > > > Wow! I think people on this list would like to see it. Any > > chance you could convince your university to share it more > > widely? > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > On 10/08/2016 11:15 AM, Natalia Gajdamaschko wrote: > > > Hi Andy, > > > I have a copy of "Butterflies of Zagorsk" and it is not a pirated one, > > it was bought by Simon Fraser University at my request many years ago > from > > BBC. Students like it. > > > Cheers, > > > Natalia. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Andy Blunden" > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > > Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 5:54:17 PM > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Conductivism > > > > > > Here is what Andrew said when I asked him about Butterflies: > > > > > > Dear Andy, > > > Yes, Lois Holzman is sort of right. Around 25 or so years > > > ago the world was rather different from today and the BBC > > > was easily persuaded to invest the small fortune that it > > > took to make a number of documentary films around the theme > > > of the transformability of human psychic development. Not > > > only did I spark these off but served as 'technical advisor' > > > to all of them and was quite closely involved in their > > > making. The BBC distributed information to viewers who wrote > > > in after seeing the programmes, and even published a small > > > book. It was all great fun and for while I risked a little > > > optimism, but the world changed... They were quite good > > > films in their way. Not at a technical level, if by that one > > > means in terms of how well they portrayed the > > > psycho-educational principles and the philosophies that each > > > concerned, but as propaganda that move people who knew. The > > > director and writer had their own ideas of what could make > > > powerful television and parts of all these films are > > > technically weak at what I regarded as their central themes. > > > What did I know, though? I was just pleased to let Ann Paul > > > the producer/director and Michael Dean the writer have their > > > head. One of the films enjoyed some critical acclaim and > > > even for a time affected social policy at the national level > > > (not The Butterflies of Zagorsk). Many professionals in the > > > relevant sectors hated them. That was all fun too. The > > > Butterflies of Zagorsk was a hour long, and perhaps it might > > > have been better at more tightly edited at fifty minutes. At > > > the superficial level it portrayed the work of the Deaf-Bind > > > Children's Home at Zagorsk (now Sergiev Posad). that was the > > > concrete heritage of Sololyanskii and Meshcheriyakov, and of > > > course Il'enkov, represented in still living pedagogy and > > > upbringing. More deeply it tried to convey the > > > social-cultural/historical understanding of L. S. > > > Vygotskii's social-cultural/historical understanding and > > > what this implies. So, Lois Holzman rather overstated my > > > role in all this. I did not make them and had no formal > > > ownership. Ownership was with the BBC and the BBC is > > > notoriously jealous of its intellectual property ? hence > > > their later absence from YouTube. One could for a while buy > > > tapes of these films above board (at a fiendish cost) but > > > following major reorganisation at the BBC, including closure > > > of its Documentaries Department, this facility disappeared. > > > A few years ago I wrote to ask about the present situation > > > but could find no one at the BBC who knew even how to find > > > out about this, and by then I knew nobody higher up who > > > could lean on the organisation! As an an immediate response > > > to your question about availability' of The Butterflies of > > > Zagorsk I can give only the same answer that I have had to > > > give so many times over the years. Unless you come across a > > > copy of a pirated example somewhere, you may search in vain. > > > I do not have one myself (the early nineties were tumultuous > > > times for me), nor do I think that Ann Paul (long now > > > retired) has either. I am in Germany for a few days at the > > > moment but when I get back I shall follow one lead that > > > occurs to me. Nil desperandum, but don't hold your breath! > > > Of course, if your Portuguese is up to it, in the meantime > > > you can watch this film on YouTube, under the title of As > > > borboletas de Zagorsk.: > > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnQt9F-- > > NgHfOKHCpRwxKClD4Eo0lY87I > > > suspect that this is a pirated version of a 'official' > > > version sold abroad by the BBC, probably for broadcast in > > > Brazil. It sold the film to other foreign broadcasting > > > companies too, so a thorough search might find other > > > leads.The Portuguese one references above is a terrible > > > print, and of course probably loses something in translation > > > of what the original actually said. Look up the Portuguese > > > title on Google, though, and you will see that even so the > > > film is still powerful enough to attract attention. Best > > > answer that I can offer in my present situation, Andrew. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > > > > On 5/08/2016 11:27 AM, Lois Holzman wrote: > > >> Hi Andy, > > >> I know of it through Andrew Sutton andrew@conductive-education.org.uk > > >> > > >> http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/ < > > http://e-conduction.org/ceinformation/category/andrew-sutton/> > > >> http://www.blurb.com/b/1736366-internationalising- > conductive-education > > > > >> /http://www.specialworld.net/2016/04/05/conductive- > > education-the-unfinished-story/ > 2016/04/05/conductive-education-the-unfinished-story/>?read this one for > > the latest > > >> http://www.conductive-world.info >?Andrew's > > site > > >> > > >> I met Andrew a long time ago because as the person who made the > > documentary Butterflies of Zagorsk (mentioned on XMCA a bunch of times) > and > > learned of his work with conductive education from him. > > >> > > >> I hope this is helpful. > > >> > > >> Lois > > >> > > >> Lois Holzman > > >> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy > > >> 119 West 23 St, suite 902 > > >> New York, NY 10011 > > >> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX > > >> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324 > > >> Fax +1.718.797.3966 > > >> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org > > >> Social Media > > >> Facebook | LinkedIn < > > http://www.%20linkedin.com/pub/lois-holzman> | Twitter < > > https://twitter.com/LoisHolzman> > > >> Blogs > > >> Psychology Today > com/blog/conceptual-revolution>| Psychology of Becoming < > > http://loisholzman.org/> | Mad in America > author/lois/> > > >> Websites > > >> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute < > > http://eastsideinstitute.org/> | Performing the World > performingtheworld.org/> > > >> All Stars Project > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Aug 4, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Does anyone know anything about "conductivism"? > > >>> > > >>> I understand it is a school of educational psychology which is used > in > > the education of severely disabled children, it came out of Hungary and > > they have an interest in Vygotsky. And I think the name is an allusion to > > the "conductor" of an orchestra. > > >>> > > >>> Andy > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> Andy Blunden > > >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy > > >>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective- > decision-making > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Aug 11 09:24:23 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 09:24:23 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Movements specific enough to the object (something) to pick up on the object's specificities Message-ID: <57aca6c2.4362620a.ec829.b12b@mx.google.com> We have been exploring the relationship of the general and particular in identity processes. Kym MacLaren, exploring the relationship of perception & movement as intertwining offered a phrase that caught my attention in this sentence. ?None of these movements are movements we think about and purposely set in motion. These movements are specific enough to the object to pick up on the object?s specificities.. The relation of *specific enough* and *specificities* within intertwining perception & moving (living form coming to *know*) pre-reflectively. Example: Moving our hand too slowly over a coarsely textured surface or moving our hand too quickly over finely textured surface will fail to DISCERN the relevant *specificities* (textures) Merleau Ponty asked the question, ?How is it then that my movements are so fitted to this object?s determinacies?. M-P?s answer. Our body (according to the body?s potentialities) is guided by indeterminate directives in the thing being perceived. They are *possible routes* offered by the indeterminate something to take up the something (*given* our human anatomy and bodily capacities.) The determinate specific thing or object *is born* out of the bodily assumption (ambiguity, vagueness) of these *specific enough* indeterminacies/possibilities THROUGH intertwining perception & moving *prior* to becoming determinate specificities. May be relevant to explorations of human/ness and human/ity. Not sure if I supplied enough background or if too fragmented a posting. The relation of movements being *specific enough* to discern *specificities/textures* of objects and persons. Returns us to dialogical movements. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 11 15:43:13 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:43:13 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Asst Prof in Human Development & Women's Studies (Research Methods) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A job for the right person. mike Greetings colleagues, We invite applicants for the position below. Assistant Professor of Human Development and Women's Studies (Research Methods) Tenure-track The Department of Human Development & Women's Studies at the University of California, East Bay promotes the interdisciplinary study of human development over the life course and serves approximately 400 ethnically and economically diverse majors per year in the beautiful San Francisco Bay area. Our successful tenure-track candidate will teach coursework in research using both qualitative and quantitative methods as well as a breadth of other innovative research designs, and will teach in other areas as assigned by the Department Chair. The successful candidate will also collaborate with our faculty to strengthen and develop the Department?s upper-division research courses, senior-level research projects, and other special initiatives. Candidates with a record of achievement in the areas of qualitative and quantitative methods are preferred. Candidates with expertise in the areas of early childhood, childhood, adolescent, adult, or gerontological development, and/or gender and development are preferred. Candidates with successful teaching and mentoring experience at the university level are preferred. Rank is Assistant Professor. Salary is dependent upon educational preparation and experience. The position starts fall 2017 and is subject to budgetary authorization. Phd, MD, or foreign equivalent degree required. ABD candidates must have earned doctorate at time of appointment. Applicants who represent a range of diversity, including race/ethnicity, religion, gender identity, ability, age, and sexual orientation, are strongly encouraged to apply. Application Deadline: October 15, 2016. Please submit a letter of application, which addresses the qualifications noted in the position announcement; a complete and current vita; a transcript demonstrating receipt of terminal degree (or degree progress for ABD candidates); two sample syllabi, two writing samples, and a list of names and contact information for three recommenders, at: https://apply.interfolio.com/35233 More information about the campus and position is also available there. -- Christina Chin-Newman, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Department of Human Development and Women's Studies Co-Director, Exploring LAND (Learning, Ability, and Neurological Diversity) Project Director, Arts, Creativity & Education (ACE) Lab California State University, East Bay 25800 Carlos Bee Blvd. Hayward, CA 94542 Office: MI 3063 (510) 885-4570 http://www.csueastbay.edu/acelab _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From wendy.maples@outlook.com Fri Aug 12 01:05:22 2016 From: wendy.maples@outlook.com (Wendy Maples) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:05:22 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Asst Prof in Human Development & Women's Studies (Research Methods) In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: What a brilliant post. Not for me, I'm afraid, but thanks for the notice. Will pass this on to medical anthropology friend though.Best wishes,W > From: mcole@ucsd.edu > Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:43:13 -0700 > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Asst Prof in Human Development & Women's Studies (Research Methods) > > A job for the right person. > mike > > Greetings colleagues, > > We invite applicants for the position below. > > Assistant Professor of Human Development and Women's Studies (Research > Methods) > > Tenure-track > > > > The Department of Human Development & Women's Studies at the University of > California, East Bay promotes the interdisciplinary study of human > development over the life course and serves approximately 400 ethnically > and economically diverse majors per year in the beautiful San Francisco Bay > area. > > Our successful tenure-track candidate will teach coursework in research > using both qualitative and quantitative methods as well as a breadth of > other innovative research designs, and will teach in other areas as > assigned by the Department Chair. The successful candidate will also > collaborate with our faculty to strengthen and develop the Department?s > upper-division research courses, senior-level research projects, and other > special initiatives. Candidates with a record of achievement in the areas > of qualitative and quantitative methods are preferred. Candidates with > expertise in the areas of early childhood, childhood, adolescent, adult, or > gerontological development, and/or gender and development are preferred. > Candidates with successful teaching and mentoring experience at the > university level are preferred. > > Rank is Assistant Professor. Salary is dependent upon educational > preparation and experience. The position starts fall 2017 and is subject to > budgetary authorization. Phd, MD, or foreign equivalent degree required. > ABD candidates must have earned doctorate at time of appointment. > > Applicants who represent a range of diversity, including race/ethnicity, > religion, gender identity, ability, age, and sexual orientation, are > strongly encouraged to apply. > > Application Deadline: October 15, 2016. Please submit a letter of > application, which addresses the qualifications noted in the position > announcement; a complete and current vita; a transcript demonstrating > receipt of terminal degree (or degree progress for ABD candidates); two > sample syllabi, two writing samples, and a list of names and contact > information for three recommenders, at: https://apply.interfolio.com/35233 > More information about the campus and position is also available there. > > -- > Christina Chin-Newman, Ph.D. > Associate Professor, Department of Human Development and Women's Studies > Co-Director, Exploring LAND (Learning, Ability, and Neurological Diversity) > Project > Director, Arts, Creativity & Education (ACE) Lab > California State University, East Bay > 25800 Carlos Bee Blvd. > Hayward, CA 94542 > Office: MI 3063 > (510) 885-4570 > http://www.csueastbay.edu/acelab > > _______________________________________________ > To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: > cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org > (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, > your message > will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: > http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From anamshane@gmail.com Fri Aug 12 14:33:48 2016 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 17:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: Sociocultural Theories in Education Message-ID: Dear XMCAers? Thanks A LOT to many of you who sent your syllabi and suggestions in response to Ana?s request for the ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? course. I do not have the access to XMCA so I asked Ana to ask you. I have created a draft of the Curricular Map for my doctoral fall seminar, EDUC855 ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? ? 30 topics (please, see below). My EDUC855 grad students will have a chance to choose topics that they want to study from the Curricular Map and to add new topics of their interest that may be relevant to the class. For each topic, I created it?s label, descriptive teaser and readings. The order if the topics is not important because my students will select a topic they will want to study for a next class. In developing the topics, I focus on sociocultural theories, approaches, applications, and debates. Please do not be concerned about, at times, huge amount of readings for some topics as my students will choose how much they will want to read for each selected topic. Actually, I have completely eliminated homework in my classes and limited in-class reading to 20-30 min. This promotes students self-assignment when they want to study on their own a topic of their own interest (sometimes beyond the semester). Can you look through my topics to see if I missed something important in terms of sociocultural educational theories, approaches, applications, debates, and readings, please? I?d appreciate your suggestions, including changing titles of topics of their descriptive teasers. Thanks, Eugene PS (by Ana): Please send? your responses to Eugene at ematusov@udel.edu Curricular map for EDUC855.16F: Sociocultural Theories of Education 1. Orientation to the class curriculum. Psychological sociocultural approaches (James Wertsch) Introduction to the course. Why are you taking this class? What do you want to learn? What is ?sociocultural? theory/approach to education? What theory/approach is not ?sociocultural?? Diverse answers to these questions. Diverse sociocultural approaches: Curricular Map for our class. Approaches, dialogic oppositions and applications. Sociological view of our class: who you are and who am I? Am I a ?student,? or a ?learner,? or both, or neither? How do you want to be treated in the class: as a ?student? or as a ?learner? or both? What does it mean in practical terms? Our roles in the class mediated by syllabus. Diverse type of syllabus: Closed Syllabi, Opening Syllabi, Open Syllabi. What should type of syllabus be in our class? Curriculum as content (stuff to study) vs. vista (diverse perspectives on the societal practices and institutions of education). Giving table of context of textbooks and conventional syllabus curricula. Virtual people in the practice. What type of learning activities do we want in our class? Class web (do we need it). What is our next topic? Readings: Wertsch, J. V. (1989). A sociocultural approach to mind: Some theoretical considerations. Cultural Dynamics, 2(2), 140-161. Wertsch, J. V. (1991). Voices of the mind: A sociocultural approach to mediated action. Cambridge, MA: Cambridge Press. 2. Lev Vygotsky's sociohistorical theory How do development and learning relate? Individual and social: cultural, communal, and practice-based... Are we losing agency? One of the major contribution of Vygotsky in developmental psychology and education is that he showed that individual development is NOT rooted in individual -- not even in his/her interaction with the environment, -- but rather in a culture. The key concept for this idea is the "zone of proximal development" (ZPD) created, according to Vygotsky, in a joint activity with more knowledgeable others (peers or adults). Matusov argues that although Vygotsky demonstrated that development is a social and cultural process, he still assumed that the result of the development is individual property of doing everything well by him/herself. According to Matusov, Vygotsky was culturally biased assuming that mastery of solo activity is developmentally more advanced than joint activity with others. Lave resolves the described dichotomy of individual and social by considering an individual as a member of a "community of practice." Do you think that these scholars has gone too far in their emphasis on the social, cultural, and communal nature of human development that they have "forgotten" about individual human agency? What do you think? Readings: Vygotsky, L. S. (1978). Mind in society: The development of higher psychological processes (ch. 6, 79-91). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. Matusov, E. (1998). When solo activity is not privileged: Participation and internalization models of development. Human Development, 41(5-6), 326-349. Lave, J. (1992, April). Learning as participation in communities of practice (1-6). Paper presented at the meeting of the American Educational Research Association, San Francisco, CA. 3. Mediation (Wolfgang K?hler): 6) Cognition as mediation: Cognition in a cage vs. cognition in the wild What is cognition? What is stupidity? What defines thinking? Smart affordances vs. mediation. Is cognition in a cage different or similar to cognition in the wild? Readings: K?hler, W. (1927). The mentality of apes (intro, ch1, pp. 1-24). London: Routledge and Kegan Paul. Waal, F. B. M. d. (1989). Chimpanzee politics: Power and sex among apes (pp. 86-139). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. 4. Cognition: Universal vs Particular Cultural diversity and universality in cognition: Do "primitives" have abstract reasoning? These three sequential chapters (please read them in this order) present one story about how Western culture views traditional cultures. Luria's chapter presents a "deficit model" of portraying others by focusing on deficits in thinking of others. Scribner, who replicated Luria's research and got the same results reinterpreted the findings. She not only found evidence of abstract formal thinking in traditional people's reasoning but she also found a "strange property" of such Western practice as syllogisms. Scribner raised a question of why these practices developed in the history of Western civilizations and what it has to do with schooling. Finally, Latour seems to take the matter further by challenging the idea of illogical and irrational thinking and behavior arguing that "irrationality" can be evidence of cultural "egocentrism" (in Piagetian terms) of the Western observer who is ignorant of his or her own cultural, institutional, and historical contexts in which thinking and behavior are situated. It appears that in the x-cultural studies like Luria's one we learn more about observers and researchers than about observed. Which returns back to Scribner's quest about schooling and asking questions that do not make practical sense (e.g., syllogisms). Readings: Luria, A. R. (1976). Cognitive development, its cultural and social foundations (ch. 1, 3-19; ch. 5, 117-134). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. Scribner, S. (1977). Modes of thinking and ways of speaking: Culture and logic reconsidered. In P. N. Johnson-Laird & P. C. Wason (Eds.), Thinking (pp. 483-500). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and engineers through society (ch. 5, pp. 179-213). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. 5. Western schooling and non-Western informal learning How guidance in informal learning is different/similar to guidance in school? About a decade ago, a friend and colleague of mine returned from Togo, a West African country on the Gulf of Guinea, where he taught mathematics for nine months in a local university. He told me that the native people of Togo do not care about their kids and do not teach them anything. The kids grow like wild grass under the sky and are left to their own devices. My friend gave me a long list of what Togo adults and children do that does not, from his point of view, constitute guidance. Knowing (in an abstract way) the complexity of human practices in any given society, I could not believe his conclusion about the Togo people; however, I felt also that he was probably faced there with some very interesting and real phenomenon. Dutch researcher Mari?tte de Haan?s book about how Mexican Mazahua Indian children learn in their community and in school helps me to understand the phenomenon that my friend faced in Togo. It is not because I believe that how adults provide guidance and children learn in Togo and Mazahua communities are necessarily similar but because to a high degree the phenomenon centers around people from Western middle-class communities to which my friend and I belong. To be exact, it is about relations between the communities. For a long time, Western educators and psychological researchers have believed that ?guidance is guidance? and ?learning is learning? ? they are universal everywhere. Wood, Bruner, and Ross? pioneering research on adult guidance described important principles of adult engagement with children in adult-child tutoring sessions that the authors called ?scaffolding? (see article by Wood, Bruner and Ross). Rogoff (1990) presented these principles of scaffolding. It appears that my friend could not find these principles in the interactions between Togo adults and children and, thus, he concluded that there was no guidance. Similarly, in de Haan?s research, a non-Mazahua, Mestizo informant reported that Mazahua parents are ?not interested in their children? and do not educate? them (p. 74). Readings: Wood, D., Bruner, J. S., & Ross, G. (1976). The role of tutoring in problem solving. Journal of Child psychology and Psychiatry, 17, 89-100. de Haan, M. (1999). Learning as cultural practice: How children learn in a Mexican Mazahua community (ch. 5, 6). Amsterdam: Thela Thesis. 6. Activity Theory (Vasiliy Davydov, Yrj? Engestr?m) Activity Theory claims that human (and higher animals') subjectivity is shaped by their purposeful activities, by their goals. Goals make human activity meaningful. However, goals are undergoing through transformation in the activity. Activity, based on overcoming obstacles, generates the subject and the object mediated by tools and solutions. Activities involve contradictions. Learning is a by-product of a purposeful activity. To teach means to engage students in certain activities that are meaningful, i.e., purposeful, for the students. Readings: Davydov, V. V. (1998). The concept of developmental teaching. Journal of Russian & East European Psychology, 36(4), 11-36. Davydov, V. V., & Tsvetkovich, Z. (1991). On the objective origin of the concept of fractions. Focus on learning problems in Mathematics, 13(1), 13-64. Engestr?m, Y. (1987). Learning by expanding: An activity-theoretic approach to developmental research. Helsinki, Finland: Orienta-Konsultit Oy. Engestr?m, Y., Miettinen, R., & Punam?aki-Gitai, R.-L. (1999). Perspectives on activity theory. New York: Cambridge University Press. 7. Situated cognition (Jean Lave and others): Math in school and everyday life Math in everyday life: Does school help to do everyday math? School assumes to prepare students for "real life." But does it? Does school math help everyday math? Do people use in grocery store the same math that is used in schools? If school does not teach math used in other practices what does it teach? Why do we need schools? Readings: S?lj?, R., & Wyndhamn, J. (1993). Solving everyday problems in the formal setting: An empirical study of the school as context for thought. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice. Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 327-342). New York: Cambridge University Press. Lave, J. (1988). Cognition in practice: Mind, mathematics, and culture in everyday life (chs. 4-6, pp. 76-144). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. Hutchins, E. (1983). Understanding Micronesian navigation. In D. Gentner & A. L. Stevens (Eds.), Mental models (pp. 191-225). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum Associates. 8. Teaching as cultural practice: Math in schools Teaching as a cultural practice: What does it take to be a good math teacher? What does it mean to teach math in context? Does it mean using everyday contexts for math word problems? Or using hands-on manipulatives? Or fieldtrips? Or engaging kinds in personal and social math-based activism? What kind of math should school teach and how? Is teaching governed by pedagogical techniques or by cultural practices? Can teaching be borrowed from another culture? Readings: Stevenson, H. W., & Stigler, J. W. (1992). The learning gap: Why our schools are failing and what we can learn from Japanese and Chinese education (ch. 9, pp. 174-199). New York: Summit Books. Lave, J. (1992). Word problems: A microcosm of theories of learning. In P. Light & G. Butterworth (Eds.), Context and cognition: Ways of learning and knowing (pp. 74-92). Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. Mukhopadhyay, S., & Greer, B. (2001). Modeling with purpose: Mathematics as a critical tool. In B. Atweh, H. Forgasz & B. Nebres (Eds.), Sociocultural research on mathematics education: An international perspective (pp. 295-311). Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. 9. Community of practice (Jean Lave, Etienne Wenger) Learning is viewed as transformation of participation and identity in a community of practice as the participants become legitimate peripheral participants. Learning is not separate from social relationships -- a membership in a community of practice. A community is defined by a shared practice, in which the members participate. Readings: Lave, J., & Wenger, E. (1991). Situated learning: Legitimate peripheral participation. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. Wenger, E. (1998). Communities of practice: Learning, meaning, and identity. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. 10. Community of learners (Ann Brown, Joe Campione) The idea of a community of learners is based on the premise that learning occurs as people participate in shared endeavors with others, with all playing active but often asymmetrical roles in sociocultural activity. This contrasts with models of learning that are based on one-sided notions of learning? either that it occurs through transmission of knowledge from experts or acquisition of knowledge by novices, with the learner or the others (respectively) in a passive role. Readings Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1994). Guided discovery in a community of learners. In K. McGilly (Ed.), Classroom lessons: Integrating cognitive theory and classroom practice. (pp. 229-270). Cambridge, MA,: The MIT Press. Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1998). Designing a community of young learners: Theoretical and practical lessons. In N. M. Lambert & B. L. McCombs (Eds.), How students learn: Reforming schools through learner-centered education (pp. 153-186). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association. Rogoff, B., Matusov, E., & White, C. (1996). Models of teaching and learning: Participation in a community of learners. In D. R. Olson & N. Torrance (Eds.), The handbook of education and human development: New models of learning, teaching and schooling (pp. 388-414). Malden, MA, US: Blackwell Publishers Inc. Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Han, S. (2012). Community of Learners: Ontological and non-ontological projects. Outlines: Critical Social Studies, 14(1), 41-72. 11. Cultural and social reproduction (Pierre Bourdieu) In Bourdieu?s social reproduction thesis. Cultural capital is assumed to be one of the central family based endowments whose social class value impacts offspring intergenerational educational probabilities unequally. Inequalities in educational stratification and occupational achievement are reproduced via schools. As an analytic concept, cultural capital has generated considerable interest. But as a mechanism of class analysis the social reproduction thesis, and the role of cultural capital in it, cannot be confirmed empirically in large - scale representative, longitudinal data (or across various national settings). The role of teachers and schools, argued in Bourdieu?s theory to be central agents of exclusion and reproduction of class inequality connecting families to stratification outcomes cannot be confirmed in quantitative research. Cultural capital seen strictly as a mechanism of class reproduction as specified in Bourdieu?s framework, has limited analytic potential that restricts its application in multicultural societies. Readings: Bourdieu, P. (1977). Cultural reproduction and social reproduction (pp. 487-611). In Power and ideology in education, edited by J. Karabel and A. H. Halsey. New York, NY: Oxford University Press. Bourdieu, P., & Passeron, J. C. (1990). Reproduction in education, society, and culture. London: Sage. Bowles, S., & Gintis, H. (1976). Schooling in capitalist America: Educational reform and the contradictions of economic life. New York: Basic Books. 12. Cultural apprenticeship (Jean Lave, Barbara Rogoff) The cultural apprentice perspective is an educational theory of apprenticeship concerning the process of learning through cultural, social, and physical integration into the practices associated with the subject, such as workplace training. By developing similar performance to other practitioners, an apprentice will come to understand the tacit (informally taught) duties of the position. In the process of creating this awareness, the learner also affect their environment; as they are accepted by master practitioners, their specific talents and contributions within the field are taken into account and integrated into the overall practice. The Apprenticeship Perspective can be used to teach procedures to students. For example, tying a shoe, building a fire, and taking blood can all use the Apprenticeship Perspective to teach students these skills. However, it can be used to develop master practitioners in fields that involve increased complexity, numerous webs of interaction, or shifting environments demanding constant attention. Driver education, flight training and sports training all use the Apprenticeship Perspective for learners to learn a specific skill. Readings Rogoff, B. (1990). Apprenticeship in thinking: Cognitive development in social context. New York: Oxford University Press. Lave, J. (2011). Apprenticeship in critical ethnographic practice. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. 13. Funds of knowledge and culturally responsive pedagogy (Luis Moll, Gloria Landson-Billings) Funds of knowledge is defined by researchers Luis Moll, Cathy Amanti, Deborah Neff, and Norma Gonzalez (2001) ?to refer to the historically accumulated and culturally developed bodies of knowledge and skills essential for household or individual functioning and well-being? (p. 133). When teachers shed their role of teacher and expert and, instead, take on a new role as learner, they can come to know their students and the families of their students in new and distinct ways. With this new knowledge, they can begin to see that the households of their students contain rich cultural and cognitive resources and that these resources can and should be used in their classroom in order to provide culturally responsive and meaningful lessons that tap students? prior knowledge. Information that teachers learn about their students in this process is considered the student?s funds of knowledge. Culturally relevant or responsive teaching is a pedagogy grounded in teachers' displaying cultural competence: skill at teaching in a cross-cultural or multicultural setting. They enable each student to relate course content to his or her cultural context. While the term culturally relevant teaching often deals specifically with instruction of African American students in the United States. It has been proven to be an effective form of pedagogy for students of all racial and ethnic backgrounds. For instance, in Canada, research reflects the need to bridge the gap between traditional Aboriginal education and Western education systems by including spirituality in Aboriginal educational practices. By making education culturally relevant, it is thought to improve academic achievement. Although the majority of this practice is undertaken in a primary or secondary school setting, Readings: Moll, L. C., Amanti, C., Neff, D., & Gonz?lez, N. (1992). Funds of knowledge for teaching: Using a qualitative approach to connect homes and classrooms. Theory into Practice, 31(2), 132-141. Ladson-Billings, G. (1995). Toward a theory of culturally relevant pedagogy. American Educational Research Journal, 32(3), 465-491. 14. Ecological historical approach to minority school failure (John Ogbu) Why do so many minority students fail in school? Debate on home-school mismatch and involuntary minorities. Different scholars explain differently of minority students disproportionably fail in school. Vogt, Jordan and Tharp refer to the home-school cultural mismatch as the main source of failure. While Ogbu argues that history of the minority is more important than a cultural mismatch. To solve the problem, Delpit suggests teaching minority students "the master's tools" and culture in an explicit way. However, Gee argues that it is impossible to destroy "the master's house using the master's tools" -- the critical review of institutional power in schools is due. Readings: Ogbu, J. U. (1990). Literacy and schooling in subordinate cultures: The case of Black Americans. In K. Lomotey (Ed.), Going to school: The African-American experience (pp. 113-131). Albany, NY, US: State University of New York Press. Vogt, L. A., Jordan, C., & Tharp, R. G. (1987). Explaining school failure, producing school success: Two cases. Anthropology & Education Quarterly, 18(4), 276-286. Delpit, L. D. (1995). Other people's children: Cultural conflict in the classroom (pp. 152-166). New York: New Press: Distributed by W.W. Norton. Gee, J. P. (1996). Social linguistics and literacies: Ideology in discourses (ch.1, viii-21). London: Taylor & Francis. 15. Culture as disability (Ray McDermott): School success and school failure Design of academic success and failure in school: Where is academic success and failure located? Learning and teaching disabilities... Why do some children fail in school while others succeed? Traditionally to answer these questions, educators, scholars and general public refer to individual properties of the students: natural intellect, motivation, learning disabilities, giftedness, attitude, and so on. The following readings represent another approach although. These scholars argue that academic success and failure design by schools. Yes, schools despite their all claims to commitment to "educate all children" (cf. Labaree's first goal of schools of "democratic participation"), schools are busy designing school successes of whom are below average. As Labaree argues, success for all would inflate school credentials and thus would undermine the social mobility goal of school. However, how success and failure are designed in classrooms? How the dynamics set that produce school failure and school success on a systematic basis? Readings: McDermott, R. P. (1993). The acquisition of a child by a learning disability. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice: Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 269-305). New York: Cambridge University Press. Varenne, H., & McDermott, R. P. (1998). Successful failure: The school America builds (Ch. 5, pp 106-128). Boulder, CO: Westview Press. Matusov, E., DePalma, R., & Drye, S. (2007). Whose development? Salvaging the concept of development within a sociocultural approach to education. Educational Theory, 57(4), 403-421. 16. Feminism (Carol Gilligan) Many feminists believe that women are being suppressed by a male-dominated society both in education and also in later life. They argue that the curriculum is more based around traditionally male-dominated subjects. Thus it sets up men more than women for further education or more prosperous work opportunities. Coupled with this is the stereotypical view of a woman?s part in society ? of becoming housewives, marrying early and having children. Feminists argue that this contributes to the suppression put on women by the male-run society. Sociologists Heaton and Lawson (1996, p. 76) argue that the ?hidden? curriculum is a major source of gender socialisation within schools. They believe that schools seemed to show or have: text books with modern family culture and where children are taught from an early age that males are dominant within the family; various subjects are aimed at a certain gender group, for example Food Technology would be aimed at females, leading on to the typical role of females doing housework and cooking; sports in schools are very much male and female dominated within the education system, with boys playing rugby and cricket while girls play netball and rounders. It could be seen that the majority of teachers are female, but that the senior management positions are mainly male-dominated, although this is not the case in some schools. Readings: Gilligan, C. (1993). In a different voice: Psychological theory and women's development. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. Purvis, J. (1994). Feminist theory in education. British Journal of Sociology of Education, 15(1), 137-140. 17. Critical race theory in education (Gloria Ladson-Billings) Critical race theory (CRT) is an analytical framework that stems from the field of critical legal studies that addresses the racial inequities in society. Critical race theory (CRT) recognizes that racism is endemic to American life, expresses skepticism toward dominant legal claims of neutrality, objectivity, colorblindness, and meritocracy challenges ahistoricism and insists on a contextual/historical analysis off the law (and education) presumes that racism has contributed to all contemporary manifestations off group advantage and disadvantage. Scholars of education have used CRT as a framework to further analyze and critique educational research and practice. Reading: Ladson-Billings, G., & Tate, W. F. (1995). Toward a critical race theory of education. Teachers college record, 97(1), 47-68. Dixson, A. D., & Rousseau, C. K. (2006). Critical race theory in education: All God's children got a song. New York: Routledge. Parker, L., Deyhle, D., & Villenas, S. A. (1999). Race is-- race isn't: Critical race theory and qualitative studies in education. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. Lynn, M., & Dixson, A. D. (2013). Handbook of critical race theory in education. New York: Routledge. 18. Ecological approaches (Urie Bronfenbrenner, James Gibson): Contextualism and affordances in psychology education What is context? Is it a factor that can be considered separately in addition to a main, universal function (e.g., cognition, learning) or is it an inseparable part of the any phenomenon? Is context objective, existing outside of a psychological phenomenon, or is it subjective and a part of a psychological phenomenon? What kinds of contexts exist? Why context is important for learning? Purposeful activity vs affordances: all "action possibilities" latent in the environment, independent of an individual's ability to recognize them, but always in relation to agents (people or animals) and therefore dependent on their capabilities. For instance, a set of steps which rises four feet high does not afford the act of climbing if the actor is a crawling infant. Gibson's is the prevalent definition in cognitive psychology. Readings: Bronfenbrenner, U. (1995). Bioecological model from a life course perspective: Reflections of a participant observer. In Moen, P., Elder Jr., G. H., and Luscher, K. (Eds), Examining lives in context: Perspectives on the ecology of human development (pp. 599-647). Washington DC: APA. Cole, M. (1995). The supra-individual envelope of development: Activity and practice, situation and context. In J. J. Goodnow, P. J. Miller & et al. (Eds.), Cultural practices as contexts for development (pp. 105-118). San Francisco, CA, US: Jossey-Bass Inc, Publishers. Gibson, J. J. (1979). The ecological approach to visual perception. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. Gibson, E. J. (2002). Perceiving the affordances: A portrait of two psychologists. Mahwah, NJ: L. Erlbaum Associates. 19. Connectionism and actor-networks theory (George Siemens, Bruno Latour) Which skills and practices are relevant to an even changing world, and how are those skills addressed in current educational practices? Technology-mediated personal learning networks: How does "connectivism" (as defined by George Siemens) impact our view of what knowledge or expertise are? Including technology and connection making as learning activities begins to move learning theories into a digital age. We can no longer personally experience and acquire learning that we need to act. We derive our competence from forming connections. Chaos is a new reality for knowledge workers. Unlike constructivism, which states that learners attempt to foster understanding by meaning making tasks, chaos states that the meaning exists ? the learner's challenge is to recognize the patterns which appear to be hidden. Meaning-making and forming connections between specialized communities are important activities. Chaos, as a science, recognizes the connection of everything to everything. Connectivism is the integration of principles explored by chaos, network, and complexity and self-organization theories. Learning is a process that occurs within nebulous environments of shifting core elements ? not entirely under the control of the individual. Learning (defined as actionable knowledge) can reside outside of ourselves (within an organization or a database), is focused on connecting specialized information sets, and the connections that enable us to learn more are more important than our current state of knowing. Readings: Siemens, G. (2005). Connectivism: A learning theory for the digital age. International Journal of Instructional Technology and Distance Learning, 2(1), 1-8. Retrieved fromhttp://itdl.org/Journal/Jan_05/article01.htm Latour, B. (1996). On actor-network theory: A few clarifications plus more than a few complications. Retrieved from http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/P-67%20ACTOR-NETWORK.pdf Latour, B. (1996). Aramis, or, The love of technology. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. 20. Dialogism (Mikhail Bakhtin, Paulo Freire, Socrates) Russian philosopher of dialogism Mikhail Bakhtin argued that meaning making process is dialogic in its nature and occurs in the relationship between genuine question and seriously answer. Can education be dialogic in this sense, when the teacher knows "more" and students know "less"? Ironically, Bakhtin used examples of conventional educational practices to illustrate his notion of "excessive monologism." Should education focus on critical meaning making or on students' arriving at the curricular endpoints, preset by the teacher in advance (e.g., educational standards, common core)? If dialogic pedagogy possible, what is its goal and what can be the teacher's role in it, as a genuine dialogic partner? Readings: Plato, & Bluck, R. S. (1961). Meno. Cambridge, UK: University Press. Freire, P. (1986). Pedagogy of the oppressed. New York: Continuum. Matusov, E. (2009). Journey into dialogic pedagogy. Hauppauge, NY: Nova Science Publishers. Sidorkin, A. M. (1999). Beyond discourse: Education, the self, and dialogue. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. Wegerif, R. (2007). Dialogic, educational and technology: Expanding the space of learning. New York: Springer-Verlag. 21. Authorial Agency (Eugene Matusov) Authorial agency focuses on the production of culture, which is the individual?s unique culture making activity on larger, more recognizable, and smaller, less recognizable, scales. Authorial agency is defined through socially recognized personal transcendence of the given ? a person?s transcendence of the given recognized positively and/or negatively by others and by the self, ?the subject desires recognition from another and is constituted through this recognition? The gaps embedded in repetition are, for Butler, the location of agency? (Clare, 2009, p. 51). Authorial agency is not freedom from the natural causes, necessities, ready-made culture, social dynamics, nature, and iron logic but rather it uses these as the material of transcendence. In the process of socially recognized transcendence of the given culture and practice, new goals, new definitions of quality, new motivations, new wills, new commitments, new skills, new knowledge, new relationships will emerge. In conventional technological education, students are expected to postpone exercising their authorial agency until they become fully equipped with the powerful cultural toolkit of essential knowledge, skills, attitudes, and dispositions ? i.e., after the education is fully completed. Student?s agency is usually neglected if not actively suppressed by the teachers as distraction from the preset curricula. Thus, learning is often alienated from the students? authorial agency. Occasionally, teachers may try to exploit students?authorial agency for engaging them into the prescribed curriculum but the teachers often worry that things may get out of control and the students may hijack the lesson (Kennedy, 2005). The technological approach to education sees its goal as the reproduction of the ready-made culture and in preparing students? future active participation in the ready-made culture. Readings: Matusov, E. (2011). Authorial teaching and learning. In E. J. White & M. Peters (Eds.), Bakhtinian pedagogy: Opportunities and challenges for research, policy and practice in education across the globe (pp. 21-46). New York: Peter Lang Publishers. Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Kayumova, S. (2016). Mapping concepts of agency in educational contexts. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science, 50(3), 420?446. doi: 10.1007/s12124-015-9334-2 22. Cultural creolization (Eugene Matusov) What is a cultural mismatch between the teacher's and students' cultural expectations and behavior? Have you experienced ones? What can educational problems result from a cultural mismatch? Is it possible to prevent cultural mismatches or not and why? How can a teacher recognize a cultural mismatch (and not intentional violation of cultural norms and expectations)? Facing a cultural mismatch, what should the teacher do: a) make the student learn and use only the cultural pattern of expectation and behavior dominant in the mainstream culture that the teacher belongs to, b) learn the student's cultural pattern of expectations and behavior for providing better guidance and comfort to the student, or c) something else (what is it and why)? What would you do, as a teacher, when face a cultural mismatch? Cultural creolization is based on a sociocultural family of approaches which treats the differences of the participants in multicultural settings as resources in the construction of new, precisely multi-cultural. or creole, learning communities rather than on fixing individuals' deficits. In this model, an appropriate pedagogical regime is conceived of as building a new, creole educational community that draws on the cultures and histories of children, teachers, instructors, and community leaders. Readings: Matusov, E., St. Julien, J., & Hayes, R. (2005). Building a creole educational community as the goal of multicultural education for preservice teachers. In L. V. Barnes (Ed.), Contemporary teaching and teacher issues (pp. 1-38). Hauppauge, NY: Nova Publishers. Matusov, E., Smith, M. P., Candela, M. A., & Lilu, K. (2007). ?Culture has no internal territory?: Culture as dialogue. In J. Valsiner & A. Rosa (Eds.), The Cambridge Handbook of Socio-Cultural Psychology (pp. 460-483). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. 23. Sociocultural psychological approaches as a response to the Information-Processing psychological framework Arguably, a Sociocultural approach has emerged in part in a response to the Cognitive Revolution started in the 1950s and its Information-Processing approach (IP). The Information-Processing approach considers mind to be processing information, like some kind of a super-powerful computer, affected by diverse contextual factors. In contrast, a Sociocultural approach argues that mind is shaped by diverse contexts (e.g., societial, physical, cultural, institutional, dialogic, activity) and does not exist outside of these contexts. Below is an informative debate between information-processing and sociocultural paradigms, arguing "wrong questions." Readings Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1996). Situated learning and education. Educational Researcher, 25(4), 5-11. Greeno, J. G. (1997). On claims that answer the wrong questions. Educational Researcher, 26(1), 5-17. Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1997). Situated versus cognitive perspective: Form versus substance. Educational Researcher, 26(1), 18-21. 24. Learning and motivation in institutional contexts Why are so many students who are not intrinsically motivated to learn in school? How and why do the school and society create non-motivated students? What shapes learning and motivation? Based on Labaree?s analysis, do you agree that that many low-income students are not motivated in school learning differently than unmotivated middle-class students, why, how? Can we change the situation with non-motivated students and if so, how? Readings: Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: The credentials race in American education (ch. 10, pp 250-262). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: The credentials race in American education (ch. 1, pp 15-52). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. 25. Transfer and context Does transfer of learning exist? If not "transfer" then what? Situated and information processing theories of cognition and learning. Where is learning located: in individuals' heads or in their activities? Is the purpose of schools to teach students decontextualized basic skills and how the students can apply these skills for different specific situations? Traditional schools are somewhat successful in teaching many (but not all) students how to pass school exams and tests on basic skills. The main educational paradox is that passing these tests does not guarantee that the students can successfully apply them for diverse specific situations. Many students could not recognize the situations requiring the basic skills learned in school or they apply wrong skills that are not appropriate for the given situation. Moreover, some people, who cannot pass the school basic skill tests, can very successful operate in specific situations. The described difficulties experienced by students of traditional schooling are called "transfer problem." Readings: Bransford, J. D., & Schwartz, D. L. (2001). Rethinking transfer: A simple proposal with multiple implications. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), 61-100. Beach, K. D. (1999). Consequential transitions: A sociocultural expedition beyond transfer in education. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), 101-139. Tuomi-Gr?hn, T., & Engestr?m, Y. (2003). Conceptualizing transfer: From standard notions to developmental perspectives. In T. Tuomi-Gr?hn & Y. Engestr?m (Eds.), Between school and work: New perspectives on transfer and boundary-crossing (1st ed., pp. 19-38). Amsterdam: Pergamon. Packer, M. (2001). The problem of transfer, and the sociocultural critique of schooling. Journal of the Learning Sciences, 10(4), 493-514. 26. Literacy, culture, and cognition Does literacy changes human cognition? Do literate people think differently, more powerfully than illiterate? Ong says, "yes." Scribner, Cole, and Matusov say human cognition is shaped by practices and social relations in which literacy is embedded. Are you with Ong or Scribner, Cole and Matusov? Why? Readings: Ong, W. J. (1982). Orality and literacy: The technologizing of the word (ch. 2, pp. 28-43). New York: Methuen. Scribner, S., & Cole, M. (1988). Unpackaging literacy. In E. R. Kintgen, B. M. Kroll & M. Rose (Eds.), Perspectives on literacy (pp. 57-70). Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press. Matusov, E., & St. Julien, J. (2004). Print literacy as oppression: Cases of bureaucratic, colonial, totalitarian literacies and their implications for schooling. TEXT: International Journal, 24(2), 197-244. 27. Ways of talking, writing, and reading Doesn?t non-Standard English reflect deficiency in one's talking and thinking or non-Standard English is full-developed language among other languages? Why do people, who form different cultural communities, organize their language differently? Whether and if so how can the teacher support diverse ways of talking in the classroom? Should the teacher do so? What do you think? Readings: Bereiter, C., & Engelmann, S. (1970). Language learning activities for the disadvantaged child (pp.5-9). New York: Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai Brith. Labov, W. (1974). Academic ignorance and Black intelligence. In R. J. Mueller, D. Ary & C. McCormick (Eds.), Readings in classroom learning and perception (pp. 328-345). New York: Praeger. Kaplan, R. B. (1966). Cultural thought patterns in inter-cultural education. Language Learning, 16(1-2), 1-21. 28. What happens when you can't count past four? Contexts in Cognition (developmental cognition) Do contexts always necessarily affect cognition at its most basic level? For instance, it would be interesting to read about the Amazonia tribes?the Munduruku and the Piraha. These are two examples where their contexts are very different from ours and yet-- they have numerical systems similar to ours. Why is that? How do they differ when context is brought into the picture? How are they the same? Readings: Butterworth, B. (2004). What happens when you can't count past four? https://www.theguardian.com/education/2004/oct/21/research.highereducation1 Gordon, P. (2004). Numerical cognition without words: Evidence from Amazonia. Science, 306(5695), 496-499. 29. Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? What is science and how is it different from non-science or pseudoscience? Philosophers like positivist Popper tried to develop criteria of science based on what individual scientist does (according to the scientist?s own record). Latour, who had training in anthropology studying African indigenous religions, approach to study of science differently -- like an anthropologist. He decided to study not what scientists say about what they do, but actual practice of science making (science-in-action). He then compared his findings with scientists' claims and got two face Janus... Readings: Popper, K. (1998). Science: Conjectures and refutations. In M. Curd & J. A. Cover (Eds.), Philosophy of science: The central issues (1st ed., pp. 3-9). New York: W.W. Norton. Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and engineers through society (intro and ch.1, pp. 1-62). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. 30. Science in school What is the purpose of science education? What is science teaching about? Is it about providing hands-on activities where students will discover scientific facts for themselves? Or should science classroom promote scientific thinking in every students as a set of individual skills? Or should science classes reproduce scientific communities? Or should science create "semantic networks" of talking science? Or should it involve students' identity? Why do school alumni know little science? Some do students become scientists but many do not? Why are fewer women or minority scientists there? Readings: Lemke, J. L. (1990). Talking science: Language, learning, and values (ch.1, pp. 1-24). Norwood, NJ: Ablex Pub. Corp. Matusov, E. (2016, submitted). What kills science in school?: Lessons from pre-service teachers? responses to urban children?s science inquiries, 1-25. Brickhouse, N. W., Lowery, P., & Schultz, K. (2000). What kind of a girl does science? The construction of school science identities. Journal of Research in Science Teaching, 37(5), 441-458. ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- From goncu@uic.edu Fri Aug 12 14:54:09 2016 From: goncu@uic.edu (Goncu, Artin) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:54:09 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: <1169008806.61052010.1470791159841.JavaMail.zimbra@sfu.ca> Message-ID: Dear Ana, Mine is on the way for you too. Once you construct yours, can you please share? Warm regards, ag On Tue, August 9, 2016 8:42 pm, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > Dear Natalia! > Thanks a LOT > > Ana > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:09 PM Natalia Gajdamaschko > wrote: > >> Hi Ana, >> My Vygotsky seminar -- in the mail to you! Enjoy! >> Cheers, >> Natalia. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ana Marjanovic-Shane" >> To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu >> Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 4:25:34 PM >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I am looking for a syllabus on sociocultural theories - for a graduate >> seminar to get diverse curricular topics. Can you send it to me, please >> - >> if you are teaching such a course. >> >> Thanks a lot! >> >> Ana >> >> >> -- >> *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* >> Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) >> Associate Professor of Education >> Chestnut Hill College >> phone: 267-334-2905 >> > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > > Artin Goncu, Ph.D http://www.artingoncu.com/ Professor Emeritus, University of Illinois at Chicago College of Education M/C 147 1040 W. Harrison St. Chicago, IL 60607 From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 13 14:59:59 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 15:59:59 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: Sociocultural Theories in Education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eugene, Wow! I feel silly adding anything to your list, but I just thought that you could add one more thing to your readings for Topic 27 (Ways of talking, writing, and reading) and that would be Shirley Brice Heath?s Ways of Knowing, a rich ethnographic approach to the uses of literacy in three communities. Henry > On Aug 12, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > > Dear XMCAers? > > > > Thanks A LOT to many of you who sent your syllabi and suggestions in response to Ana?s request for the ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? course. I do not have the access to XMCA so I asked Ana to ask you. > > > > I have created a draft of the Curricular Map for my doctoral fall seminar, EDUC855 ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? ? 30 topics (please, see below). My EDUC855 grad students will have a chance to choose topics that they want to study from the Curricular Map and to add new topics of their interest that may be relevant to the class. For each topic, I created it?s label, descriptive teaser and readings. The order if the topics is not important because my students will select a topic they will want to study for a next class. In developing the topics, I focus on sociocultural theories, approaches, applications, and debates. Please do not be concerned about, at times, huge amount of readings for some topics as my students will choose how much they will want to read for each selected topic. Actually, I have completely eliminated homework in my classes and limited in-class reading to 20-30 min. This promotes students self-assignment when they want to study on their own a topic of their own interest (sometimes beyond the semester). > > > > Can you look through my topics to see if I missed something important in terms of sociocultural educational theories, approaches, applications, debates, and readings, please? I?d appreciate your suggestions, including changing titles of topics of their descriptive teasers. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eugene > > > > PS (by Ana): Please send your responses to Eugene at ematusov@udel.edu > > > > Curricular map for EDUC855.16F: Sociocultural Theories of Education > > > > 1. Orientation to the class curriculum. Psychological sociocultural approaches (James Wertsch) > Introduction to the course. Why are you taking this class? What do you want to learn? What is ?sociocultural? theory/approach to education? What theory/approach is not ?sociocultural?? Diverse answers to these questions. > > Diverse sociocultural approaches: Curricular Map for our class. Approaches, dialogic oppositions and applications. > > Sociological view of our class: who you are and who am I? Am I a ?student,? or a ?learner,? or both, or neither? How do you want to be treated in the class: as a ?student? or as a ?learner? or both? What does it mean in practical terms? Our roles in the class mediated by syllabus. Diverse type of syllabus: Closed Syllabi, Opening Syllabi, Open Syllabi. What should type of syllabus be in our class? Curriculum as content (stuff to study) vs. vista (diverse perspectives on the societal practices and institutions of education). Giving table of context of textbooks and conventional syllabus curricula. Virtual people in the practice. What type of learning activities do we want in our class? Class web (do we need it). What is our next topic? > > Readings: > > Wertsch, J. V. (1989). A sociocultural approach to mind: Some theoretical considerations. Cultural Dynamics, 2(2), 140-161. > > Wertsch, J. V. (1991). Voices of the mind: A sociocultural approach to mediated action. Cambridge, MA: Cambridge Press. > > 2. Lev Vygotsky's sociohistorical theory > How do development and learning relate? Individual and social: cultural, communal, and practice-based... Are we losing agency? One of the major contribution of Vygotsky in developmental psychology and education is that he showed that individual development is NOT rooted in individual -- not even in his/her interaction with the environment, -- but rather in a culture. The key concept for this idea is the "zone of proximal development" (ZPD) created, according to Vygotsky, in a joint activity with more knowledgeable others (peers or adults). Matusov argues that although Vygotsky demonstrated that development is a social and cultural process, he still assumed that the result of the development is individual property of doing everything well by him/herself. According to Matusov, Vygotsky was culturally biased assuming that mastery of solo activity is developmentally more advanced than joint activity with others. Lave resolves the described dichotomy of individual and social by considering an individual as a member of a "community of practice." Do you think that these scholars has gone too far in their emphasis on the social, cultural, and communal nature of human development that they have "forgotten" about individual human agency? What do you think? > > > Readings: > > Vygotsky, L. S. (1978). Mind in society: The development of higher psychological processes (ch. 6, 79-91). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > Matusov, E. (1998). When solo activity is not privileged: Participation and internalization models of development. Human Development, 41(5-6), 326-349. > > Lave, J. (1992, April). Learning as participation in communities of practice (1-6). Paper presented at the meeting of the American Educational Research Association, San Francisco, CA. > > 3. Mediation (Wolfgang K?hler): 6) Cognition as mediation: Cognition in a cage vs. cognition in the wild > What is cognition? What is stupidity? What defines thinking? Smart affordances vs. mediation. Is cognition in a cage different or similar to cognition in the wild? > > Readings: > > K?hler, W. (1927). The mentality of apes (intro, ch1, pp. 1-24). London: Routledge and Kegan Paul. > > Waal, F. B. M. d. (1989). Chimpanzee politics: Power and sex among apes (pp. 86-139). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. > > 4. Cognition: Universal vs Particular > Cultural diversity and universality in cognition: Do "primitives" have abstract reasoning? These three sequential chapters (please read them in this order) present one story about how Western culture views traditional cultures. Luria's chapter presents a "deficit model" of portraying others by focusing on deficits in thinking of others. Scribner, who replicated Luria's research and got the same results reinterpreted the findings. She not only found evidence of abstract formal thinking in traditional people's reasoning but she also found a "strange property" of such Western practice as syllogisms. Scribner raised a question of why these practices developed in the history of Western civilizations and what it has to do with schooling. Finally, Latour seems to take the matter further by challenging the idea of illogical and irrational thinking and behavior arguing that "irrationality" can be evidence of cultural "egocentrism" (in Piagetian terms) of the Western observer who is ignorant of his or her own cultural, institutional, and historical contexts in which thinking and behavior are situated. It appears that in the x-cultural studies like Luria's one we learn more about observers and researchers than about observed. Which returns back to Scribner's quest about schooling and asking questions that do not make practical sense (e.g., syllogisms). > > > > Readings: > > Luria, A. R. (1976). Cognitive development, its cultural and social foundations (ch. 1, 3-19; ch. 5, 117-134). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > Scribner, S. (1977). Modes of thinking and ways of speaking: Culture and logic reconsidered. In P. N. Johnson-Laird & P. C. Wason (Eds.), Thinking (pp. 483-500). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and engineers through society (ch. 5, pp. 179-213). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > 5. Western schooling and non-Western informal learning > How guidance in informal learning is different/similar to guidance in school? About a decade ago, a friend and colleague of mine returned from Togo, a West African country on the Gulf of Guinea, where he taught mathematics for nine months in a local university. He told me that the native people of Togo do not care about their kids and do not teach them anything. The kids grow like wild grass under the sky and are left to their own devices. My friend gave me a long list of what Togo adults and children do that does not, from his point of view, constitute guidance. Knowing (in an abstract way) the complexity of human practices in any given society, I could not believe his conclusion about the Togo people; however, I felt also that he was probably faced there with some very interesting and real phenomenon. > > Dutch researcher Mari?tte de Haan?s book about how Mexican Mazahua Indian children learn in their community and in school helps me to understand the phenomenon that my friend faced in Togo. It is not because I believe that how adults provide guidance and children learn in Togo and Mazahua communities are necessarily similar but because to a high degree the phenomenon centers around people from Western middle-class communities to which my friend and I belong. To be exact, it is about relations between the communities. For a long time, Western educators and psychological researchers have believed that ?guidance is guidance? and ?learning is learning? ? they are universal everywhere. Wood, Bruner, and Ross? pioneering research on adult guidance described important principles of adult engagement with children in adult-child tutoring sessions that the authors called ?scaffolding? (see article by Wood, Bruner and Ross). Rogoff (1990) presented these principles of scaffolding. It appears that my friend could not find these principles in the interactions between Togo adults and children and, thus, he concluded that there was no guidance. Similarly, in de Haan?s research, a non-Mazahua, Mestizo informant reported that Mazahua parents are ?not interested in their children? and do not educate? them (p. 74). > > > > Readings: > > Wood, D., Bruner, J. S., & Ross, G. (1976). The role of tutoring in problem solving. Journal of Child psychology and Psychiatry, 17, 89-100. > > de Haan, M. (1999). Learning as cultural practice: How children learn in a Mexican Mazahua community (ch. 5, 6). Amsterdam: Thela Thesis. > > 6. Activity Theory (Vasiliy Davydov, Yrj? Engestr?m) > Activity Theory claims that human (and higher animals') subjectivity is shaped by their purposeful activities, by their goals. Goals make human activity meaningful. However, goals are undergoing through transformation in the activity. Activity, based on overcoming obstacles, generates the subject and the object mediated by tools and solutions. Activities involve contradictions. Learning is a by-product of a purposeful activity. To teach means to engage students in certain activities that are meaningful, i.e., purposeful, for the students. > > Readings: > > Davydov, V. V. (1998). The concept of developmental teaching. Journal of Russian & East European Psychology, 36(4), 11-36. > > Davydov, V. V., & Tsvetkovich, Z. (1991). On the objective origin of the concept of fractions. Focus on learning problems in Mathematics, 13(1), 13-64. > > Engestr?m, Y. (1987). Learning by expanding: An activity-theoretic approach to developmental research. Helsinki, Finland: Orienta-Konsultit Oy. > > Engestr?m, Y., Miettinen, R., & Punam?aki-Gitai, R.-L. (1999). Perspectives on activity theory. New York: Cambridge University Press. > > 7. Situated cognition (Jean Lave and others): Math in school and everyday life > Math in everyday life: Does school help to do everyday math? School assumes to prepare students for "real life." But does it? Does school math help everyday math? Do people use in grocery store the same math that is used in schools? If school does not teach math used in other practices what does it teach? Why do we need schools? > > Readings: > > S?lj?, R., & Wyndhamn, J. (1993). Solving everyday problems in the formal setting: An empirical study of the school as context for thought. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice. Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 327-342). New York: Cambridge University Press. > > Lave, J. (1988). Cognition in practice: Mind, mathematics, and culture in everyday life (chs. 4-6, pp. 76-144). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > Hutchins, E. (1983). Understanding Micronesian navigation. In D. Gentner & A. L. Stevens (Eds.), Mental models (pp. 191-225). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum Associates. > > 8. Teaching as cultural practice: Math in schools > Teaching as a cultural practice: What does it take to be a good math teacher? What does it mean to teach math in context? Does it mean using everyday contexts for math word problems? Or using hands-on manipulatives? Or fieldtrips? Or engaging kinds in personal and social math-based activism? What kind of math should school teach and how? Is teaching governed by pedagogical techniques or by cultural practices? Can teaching be borrowed from another culture? > > > > Readings: > > Stevenson, H. W., & Stigler, J. W. (1992). The learning gap: Why our schools are failing and what we can learn from Japanese and Chinese education (ch. 9, pp. 174-199). New York: Summit Books. > > Lave, J. (1992). Word problems: A microcosm of theories of learning. In P. Light & G. Butterworth (Eds.), Context and cognition: Ways of learning and knowing (pp. 74-92). Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. > > Mukhopadhyay, S., & Greer, B. (2001). Modeling with purpose: Mathematics as a critical tool. In B. Atweh, H. Forgasz & B. Nebres (Eds.), Sociocultural research on mathematics education: An international perspective (pp. 295-311). Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. > > 9. Community of practice (Jean Lave, Etienne Wenger) > Learning is viewed as transformation of participation and identity in a community of practice as the participants become legitimate peripheral participants. Learning is not separate from social relationships -- a membership in a community of practice. A community is defined by a shared practice, in which the members participate. > > Readings: > > Lave, J., & Wenger, E. (1991). Situated learning: Legitimate peripheral participation. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > Wenger, E. (1998). Communities of practice: Learning, meaning, and identity. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > 10. Community of learners (Ann Brown, Joe Campione) > The idea of a community of learners is based on the premise that learning occurs as people participate in shared endeavors with others, with all playing active but often asymmetrical roles in sociocultural activity. This contrasts with models of learning that are based on one-sided notions of learning? either that it occurs through transmission of knowledge from experts or acquisition of knowledge by novices, with the learner or the others (respectively) in a passive role. > > Readings > > Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1994). Guided discovery in a community of learners. In K. McGilly (Ed.), Classroom lessons: Integrating cognitive theory and classroom practice. (pp. 229-270). Cambridge, MA,: The MIT Press. > > Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1998). Designing a community of young learners: Theoretical and practical lessons. In N. M. Lambert & B. L. McCombs (Eds.), How students learn: Reforming schools through learner-centered education (pp. 153-186). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association. > > Rogoff, B., Matusov, E., & White, C. (1996). Models of teaching and learning: Participation in a community of learners. In D. R. Olson & N. Torrance (Eds.), The handbook of education and human development: New models of learning, teaching and schooling (pp. 388-414). Malden, MA, US: Blackwell Publishers Inc. > > Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Han, S. (2012). Community of Learners: Ontological and non-ontological projects. Outlines: Critical Social Studies, 14(1), 41-72. > > 11. Cultural and social reproduction (Pierre Bourdieu) > In Bourdieu?s social reproduction thesis. Cultural capital is assumed to be one of the central family based endowments whose social class value impacts offspring intergenerational educational probabilities unequally. Inequalities in educational stratification and occupational achievement are reproduced via schools. As an analytic concept, cultural capital has generated considerable interest. But as a mechanism of class analysis the social reproduction thesis, and the role of cultural capital in it, cannot be confirmed empirically in large - scale representative, longitudinal data (or across various national settings). The role of teachers and schools, argued in Bourdieu?s theory to be central agents of exclusion and reproduction of class inequality connecting families to stratification outcomes cannot be confirmed in quantitative research. Cultural capital seen strictly as a mechanism of class reproduction as specified in Bourdieu?s framework, has limited analytic potential that restricts its application in multicultural societies. > > Readings: > > Bourdieu, P. (1977). Cultural reproduction and social reproduction (pp. 487-611). In Power and ideology in education, edited by J. Karabel and A. H. Halsey. New York, NY: Oxford University Press. > > Bourdieu, P., & Passeron, J. C. (1990). Reproduction in education, society, and culture. London: Sage. > > Bowles, S., & Gintis, H. (1976). Schooling in capitalist America: Educational reform and the contradictions of economic life. New York: Basic Books. > > 12. Cultural apprenticeship (Jean Lave, Barbara Rogoff) > The cultural apprentice perspective is an educational theory of apprenticeship concerning the process of learning through cultural, social, and physical integration into the practices associated with the subject, such as workplace training. By developing similar performance to other practitioners, an apprentice will come to understand the tacit (informally taught) duties of the position. In the process of creating this awareness, the learner also affect their environment; as they are accepted by master practitioners, their specific talents and contributions within the field are taken into account and integrated into the overall practice. > > The Apprenticeship Perspective can be used to teach procedures to students. For example, tying a shoe, building a fire, and taking blood can all use the Apprenticeship Perspective to teach students these skills. However, it can be used to develop master practitioners in fields that involve increased complexity, numerous webs of interaction, or shifting environments demanding constant attention. Driver education, flight training and sports training all use the Apprenticeship Perspective for learners to learn a specific skill. > > Readings > > Rogoff, B. (1990). Apprenticeship in thinking: Cognitive development in social context. New York: Oxford University Press. > > Lave, J. (2011). Apprenticeship in critical ethnographic practice. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. > > 13. Funds of knowledge and culturally responsive pedagogy (Luis Moll, Gloria Landson-Billings) > Funds of knowledge is defined by researchers Luis Moll, Cathy Amanti, Deborah Neff, and Norma Gonzalez (2001) ?to refer to the historically accumulated and culturally developed bodies of knowledge and skills essential for household or individual functioning and well-being? (p. 133). When teachers shed their role of teacher and expert and, instead, take on a new role as learner, they can come to know their students and the families of their students in new and distinct ways. With this new knowledge, they can begin to see that the households of their students contain rich cultural and cognitive resources and that these resources can and should be used in their classroom in order to provide culturally responsive and meaningful lessons that tap students? prior knowledge. Information that teachers learn about their students in this process is considered the student?s funds of knowledge. > > Culturally relevant or responsive teaching is a pedagogy grounded in teachers' displaying cultural competence: skill at teaching in a cross-cultural or multicultural setting. They enable each student to relate course content to his or her cultural context. While the term culturally relevant teaching often deals specifically with instruction of African American students in the United States. It has been proven to be an effective form of pedagogy for students of all racial and ethnic backgrounds. For instance, in Canada, research reflects the need to bridge the gap between traditional Aboriginal education and Western education systems by including spirituality in Aboriginal educational practices. By making education culturally relevant, it is thought to improve academic achievement. Although the majority of this practice is undertaken in a primary or secondary school setting, > > Readings: > > Moll, L. C., Amanti, C., Neff, D., & Gonz?lez, N. (1992). Funds of knowledge for teaching: Using a qualitative approach to connect homes and classrooms. Theory into Practice, 31(2), 132-141. > > Ladson-Billings, G. (1995). Toward a theory of culturally relevant pedagogy. American Educational Research Journal, 32(3), 465-491. > > 14. Ecological historical approach to minority school failure (John Ogbu) > Why do so many minority students fail in school? Debate on home-school mismatch and involuntary minorities. Different scholars explain differently of minority students disproportionably fail in school. Vogt, Jordan and Tharp refer to the home-school cultural mismatch as the main source of failure. While Ogbu argues that history of the minority is more important than a cultural mismatch. To solve the problem, Delpit suggests teaching minority students "the master's tools" and culture in an explicit way. However, Gee argues that it is impossible to destroy "the master's house using the master's tools" -- the critical review of institutional power in schools is due. > > > > Readings: > > Ogbu, J. U. (1990). Literacy and schooling in subordinate cultures: The case of Black Americans. In K. Lomotey (Ed.), Going to school: The African-American experience (pp. 113-131). Albany, NY, US: State University of New York Press. > > Vogt, L. A., Jordan, C., & Tharp, R. G. (1987). Explaining school failure, producing school success: Two cases. Anthropology & Education Quarterly, 18(4), 276-286. > > Delpit, L. D. (1995). Other people's children: Cultural conflict in the classroom (pp. 152-166). New York: New Press: Distributed by W.W. Norton. > > Gee, J. P. (1996). Social linguistics and literacies: Ideology in discourses (ch.1, viii-21). London: Taylor & Francis. > > 15. Culture as disability (Ray McDermott): School success and school failure > Design of academic success and failure in school: Where is academic success and failure located? Learning and teaching disabilities... Why do some children fail in school while others succeed? Traditionally to answer these questions, educators, scholars and general public refer to individual properties of the students: natural intellect, motivation, learning disabilities, giftedness, attitude, and so on. The following readings represent another approach although. These scholars argue that academic success and failure design by schools. Yes, schools despite their all claims to commitment to "educate all children" (cf. Labaree's first goal of schools of "democratic participation"), schools are busy designing school successes of whom are below average. As Labaree argues, success for all would inflate school credentials and thus would undermine the social mobility goal of school. However, how success and failure are designed in classrooms? How the dynamics set that produce school failure and school success on a systematic basis? > > > > Readings: > > McDermott, R. P. (1993). The acquisition of a child by a learning disability. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice: Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 269-305). New York: Cambridge University Press. > > Varenne, H., & McDermott, R. P. (1998). Successful failure: The school America builds (Ch. 5, pp 106-128). Boulder, CO: Westview Press. > > Matusov, E., DePalma, R., & Drye, S. (2007). Whose development? Salvaging the concept of development within a sociocultural approach to education. Educational Theory, 57(4), 403-421. > > 16. Feminism (Carol Gilligan) > Many feminists believe that women are being suppressed by a male-dominated society both in education and also in later life. They argue that the curriculum is more based around traditionally male-dominated subjects. Thus it sets up men more than women for further education or more prosperous work opportunities. Coupled with this is the stereotypical view of a woman?s part in society ? of becoming housewives, marrying early and having children. Feminists argue that this contributes to the suppression put on women by the male-run society. > > Sociologists Heaton and Lawson (1996, p. 76) argue that the ?hidden? curriculum is a major source of gender socialisation within schools. They believe that schools seemed to show or have: text books with modern family culture and where children are taught from an early age that males are dominant within the family; various subjects are aimed at a certain gender group, for example Food Technology would be aimed at females, leading on to the typical role of females doing housework and cooking; sports in schools are very much male and female dominated within the education system, with boys playing rugby and cricket while girls play netball and rounders. It could be seen that the majority of teachers are female, but that the senior management positions are mainly male-dominated, although this is not the case in some schools. > > Readings: > > Gilligan, C. (1993). In a different voice: Psychological theory and women's development. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > Purvis, J. (1994). Feminist theory in education. British Journal of Sociology of Education, 15(1), 137-140. > > 17. Critical race theory in education (Gloria Ladson-Billings) > Critical race theory (CRT) is an analytical framework that stems from the field of critical legal studies that addresses the racial inequities in society. Critical race theory (CRT) recognizes that racism is endemic to American life, expresses skepticism toward dominant legal claims of neutrality, objectivity, colorblindness, and meritocracy challenges ahistoricism and insists on a contextual/historical analysis off the law (and education) presumes that racism has contributed to all contemporary manifestations off group advantage and disadvantage. Scholars of education have used CRT as a framework to further analyze and critique educational research and practice. > > Reading: > > Ladson-Billings, G., & Tate, W. F. (1995). Toward a critical race theory of education. Teachers college record, 97(1), 47-68. > > Dixson, A. D., & Rousseau, C. K. (2006). Critical race theory in education: All God's children got a song. New York: Routledge. > > Parker, L., Deyhle, D., & Villenas, S. A. (1999). Race is-- race isn't: Critical race theory and qualitative studies in education. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. > > Lynn, M., & Dixson, A. D. (2013). Handbook of critical race theory in education. New York: Routledge. > > 18. Ecological approaches (Urie Bronfenbrenner, James Gibson): Contextualism and affordances in psychology education > What is context? Is it a factor that can be considered separately in addition to a main, universal function (e.g., cognition, learning) or is it an inseparable part of the any phenomenon? Is context objective, existing outside of a psychological phenomenon, or is it subjective and a part of a psychological phenomenon? What kinds of contexts exist? Why context is important for learning? Purposeful activity vs affordances: all "action possibilities" latent in the environment, independent of an individual's ability to recognize them, but always in relation to agents (people or animals) and therefore dependent on their capabilities. For instance, a set of steps which rises four feet high does not afford the act of climbing if the actor is a crawling infant. Gibson's is the prevalent definition in cognitive psychology. > > > > Readings: > > Bronfenbrenner, U. (1995). Bioecological model from a life course perspective: Reflections of a participant observer. In Moen, P., Elder Jr., G. H., and Luscher, K. (Eds), Examining lives in context: Perspectives on the ecology of human development (pp. 599-647). Washington DC: APA. > > Cole, M. (1995). The supra-individual envelope of development: Activity and practice, situation and context. In J. J. Goodnow, P. J. Miller & et al. (Eds.), Cultural practices as contexts for development (pp. 105-118). San Francisco, CA, US: Jossey-Bass Inc, Publishers. > > Gibson, J. J. (1979). The ecological approach to visual perception. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. > > Gibson, E. J. (2002). Perceiving the affordances: A portrait of two psychologists. Mahwah, NJ: L. Erlbaum Associates. > > 19. Connectionism and actor-networks theory (George Siemens, Bruno Latour) > Which skills and practices are relevant to an even changing world, and how are those skills addressed in current educational practices? Technology-mediated personal learning networks: How does "connectivism" (as defined by George Siemens) impact our view of what knowledge or expertise are? Including technology and connection making as learning activities begins to move learning theories into a digital age. We can no longer personally experience and acquire learning that we need to act. We derive our competence from forming connections. Chaos is a new reality for knowledge workers. Unlike constructivism, which states that learners attempt to foster understanding by meaning making tasks, chaos states that the meaning exists ? the learner's challenge is to recognize the patterns which appear to be hidden. Meaning-making and forming connections between specialized communities are important activities. Chaos, as a science, recognizes the connection of everything to everything. > > Connectivism is the integration of principles explored by chaos, network, and complexity and self-organization theories. Learning is a process that occurs within nebulous environments of shifting core elements ? not entirely under the control of the individual. Learning (defined as actionable knowledge) can reside outside of ourselves (within an organization or a database), is focused on connecting specialized information sets, and the connections that enable us to learn more are more important than our current state of knowing. > > Readings: > > Siemens, G. (2005). Connectivism: A learning theory for the digital age. International Journal of Instructional Technology and Distance Learning, 2(1), 1-8. Retrieved fromhttp://itdl.org/Journal/Jan_05/article01.htm > > Latour, B. (1996). On actor-network theory: A few clarifications plus more than a few complications. Retrieved from http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/P-67%20ACTOR-NETWORK.pdf > > Latour, B. (1996). Aramis, or, The love of technology. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > 20. Dialogism (Mikhail Bakhtin, Paulo Freire, Socrates) > Russian philosopher of dialogism Mikhail Bakhtin argued that meaning making process is dialogic in its nature and occurs in the relationship between genuine question and seriously answer. Can education be dialogic in this sense, when the teacher knows "more" and students know "less"? Ironically, Bakhtin used examples of conventional educational practices to illustrate his notion of "excessive monologism." Should education focus on critical meaning making or on students' arriving at the curricular endpoints, preset by the teacher in advance (e.g., educational standards, common core)? If dialogic pedagogy possible, what is its goal and what can be the teacher's role in it, as a genuine dialogic partner? > > Readings: > > Plato, & Bluck, R. S. (1961). Meno. Cambridge, UK: University Press. > > Freire, P. (1986). Pedagogy of the oppressed. New York: Continuum. > > Matusov, E. (2009). Journey into dialogic pedagogy. Hauppauge, NY: Nova Science Publishers. > > Sidorkin, A. M. (1999). Beyond discourse: Education, the self, and dialogue. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. > > Wegerif, R. (2007). Dialogic, educational and technology: Expanding the space of learning. New York: Springer-Verlag. > > 21. Authorial Agency (Eugene Matusov) > Authorial agency focuses on the production of culture, which is the individual?s unique culture making activity on larger, more recognizable, and smaller, less recognizable, scales. Authorial agency is defined through socially recognized personal transcendence of the given ? a person?s transcendence of the given recognized positively and/or negatively by others and by the self, ?the subject desires recognition from another and is constituted through this recognition? The gaps embedded in repetition are, for Butler, the location of agency? (Clare, 2009, p. 51). Authorial agency is not freedom from the natural causes, necessities, ready-made culture, social dynamics, nature, and iron logic but rather it uses these as the material of transcendence. In the process of socially recognized transcendence of the given culture and practice, new goals, new definitions of quality, new motivations, new wills, new commitments, new skills, new knowledge, new relationships will emerge. > > In conventional technological education, students are expected to postpone exercising their authorial agency until they become fully equipped with the powerful cultural toolkit of essential knowledge, skills, attitudes, and dispositions ? i.e., after the education is fully completed. Student?s agency is usually neglected if not actively suppressed by the teachers as distraction from the preset curricula. Thus, learning is often alienated from the students? authorial agency. Occasionally, teachers may try to exploit students?authorial agency for engaging them into the prescribed curriculum but the teachers often worry that things may get out of control and the students may hijack the lesson (Kennedy, 2005). The technological approach to education sees its goal as the reproduction of the ready-made culture and in preparing students? future active participation in the ready-made culture. > > Readings: > > Matusov, E. (2011). Authorial teaching and learning. In E. J. White & M. Peters (Eds.), Bakhtinian pedagogy: Opportunities and challenges for research, policy and practice in education across the globe (pp. 21-46). New York: Peter Lang Publishers. > > Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Kayumova, S. (2016). Mapping concepts of agency in educational contexts. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science, 50(3), 420?446. doi: 10.1007/s12124-015-9334-2 > > 22. Cultural creolization (Eugene Matusov) > What is a cultural mismatch between the teacher's and students' cultural expectations and behavior? Have you experienced ones? What can educational problems result from a cultural mismatch? Is it possible to prevent cultural mismatches or not and why? How can a teacher recognize a cultural mismatch (and not intentional violation of cultural norms and expectations)? Facing a cultural mismatch, what should the teacher do: a) make the student learn and use only the cultural pattern of expectation and behavior dominant in the mainstream culture that the teacher belongs to, b) learn the student's cultural pattern of expectations and behavior for providing better guidance and comfort to the student, or c) something else (what is it and why)? What would you do, as a teacher, when face a cultural mismatch? > > Cultural creolization is based on a sociocultural family of approaches which treats the differences of the participants in multicultural settings as resources in the construction of new, precisely multi-cultural. or creole, learning communities rather than on fixing individuals' deficits. In this model, an appropriate pedagogical regime is conceived of as building a new, creole educational community that draws on the cultures and histories of children, teachers, instructors, and community leaders. > > Readings: > > Matusov, E., St. Julien, J., & Hayes, R. (2005). Building a creole educational community as the goal of multicultural education for preservice teachers. In L. V. Barnes (Ed.), Contemporary teaching and teacher issues (pp. 1-38). Hauppauge, NY: Nova Publishers. > > Matusov, E., Smith, M. P., Candela, M. A., & Lilu, K. (2007). ?Culture has no internal territory?: Culture as dialogue. In J. Valsiner & A. Rosa (Eds.), The Cambridge Handbook of Socio-Cultural Psychology (pp. 460-483). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > 23. Sociocultural psychological approaches as a response to the Information-Processing psychological framework > Arguably, a Sociocultural approach has emerged in part in a response to the Cognitive Revolution started in the 1950s and its Information-Processing approach (IP). The Information-Processing approach considers mind to be processing information, like some kind of a super-powerful computer, affected by diverse contextual factors. In contrast, a Sociocultural approach argues that mind is shaped by diverse contexts (e.g., societial, physical, cultural, institutional, dialogic, activity) and does not exist outside of these contexts. Below is an informative debate between information-processing and sociocultural paradigms, arguing "wrong questions." > > Readings > > Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1996). Situated learning and education. Educational Researcher, 25(4), 5-11. > > Greeno, J. G. (1997). On claims that answer the wrong questions. Educational Researcher, 26(1), 5-17. > > Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1997). Situated versus cognitive perspective: Form versus substance. Educational Researcher, 26(1), 18-21. > > > > 24. Learning and motivation in institutional contexts > Why are so many students who are not intrinsically motivated to learn in school? How and why do the school and society create non-motivated students? What shapes learning and motivation? Based on Labaree?s analysis, do you agree that that many low-income students are not motivated in school learning differently than unmotivated middle-class students, why, how? Can we change the situation with non-motivated students and if so, how? > > > > Readings: > > Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: The credentials race in American education (ch. 10, pp 250-262). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. > > Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: The credentials race in American education (ch. 1, pp 15-52). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. > > > > 25. Transfer and context > Does transfer of learning exist? If not "transfer" then what? Situated and information processing theories of cognition and learning. Where is learning located: in individuals' heads or in their activities? Is the purpose of schools to teach students decontextualized basic skills and how the students can apply these skills for different specific situations? Traditional schools are somewhat successful in teaching many (but not all) students how to pass school exams and tests on basic skills. The main educational paradox is that passing these tests does not guarantee that the students can successfully apply them for diverse specific situations. Many students could not recognize the situations requiring the basic skills learned in school or they apply wrong skills that are not appropriate for the given situation. Moreover, some people, who cannot pass the school basic skill tests, can very successful operate in specific situations. The described difficulties experienced by students of traditional schooling are called "transfer problem." > > Readings: > > Bransford, J. D., & Schwartz, D. L. (2001). Rethinking transfer: A simple proposal with multiple implications. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), 61-100. > > Beach, K. D. (1999). Consequential transitions: A sociocultural expedition beyond transfer in education. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), 101-139. > > Tuomi-Gr?hn, T., & Engestr?m, Y. (2003). Conceptualizing transfer: From standard notions to developmental perspectives. In T. Tuomi-Gr?hn & Y. Engestr?m (Eds.), Between school and work: New perspectives on transfer and boundary-crossing (1st ed., pp. 19-38). Amsterdam: Pergamon. > > Packer, M. (2001). The problem of transfer, and the sociocultural critique of schooling. Journal of the Learning Sciences, 10(4), 493-514. > > > > 26. Literacy, culture, and cognition > Does literacy changes human cognition? Do literate people think differently, more powerfully than illiterate? Ong says, "yes." Scribner, Cole, and Matusov say human cognition is shaped by practices and social relations in which literacy is embedded. Are you with Ong or Scribner, Cole and Matusov? Why? > > Readings: > > Ong, W. J. (1982). Orality and literacy: The technologizing of the word (ch. 2, pp. 28-43). New York: Methuen. > > Scribner, S., & Cole, M. (1988). Unpackaging literacy. In E. R. Kintgen, B. M. Kroll & M. Rose (Eds.), Perspectives on literacy (pp. 57-70). Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press. > > Matusov, E., & St. Julien, J. (2004). Print literacy as oppression: Cases of bureaucratic, colonial, totalitarian literacies and their implications for schooling. TEXT: International Journal, 24(2), 197-244. > > 27. Ways of talking, writing, and reading > Doesn?t non-Standard English reflect deficiency in one's talking and thinking or non-Standard English is full-developed language among other languages? Why do people, who form different cultural communities, organize their language differently? Whether and if so how can the teacher support diverse ways of talking in the classroom? Should the teacher do so? What do you think? > > Readings: > > Bereiter, C., & Engelmann, S. (1970). Language learning activities for the disadvantaged child (pp.5-9). New York: Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai Brith. > > Labov, W. (1974). Academic ignorance and Black intelligence. In R. J. Mueller, D. Ary & C. McCormick (Eds.), Readings in classroom learning and perception (pp. 328-345). New York: Praeger. > > Kaplan, R. B. (1966). Cultural thought patterns in inter-cultural education. Language Learning, 16(1-2), 1-21. > > 28. What happens when you can't count past four? Contexts in Cognition (developmental cognition) > Do contexts always necessarily affect cognition at its most basic level? For instance, it would be interesting to read about the Amazonia tribes?the Munduruku and the Piraha. These are two examples where their contexts are very different from ours and yet-- they have numerical systems similar to ours. Why is that? How do they differ when context is brought into the picture? How are they the same? > > Readings: > > Butterworth, B. (2004). What happens when you can't count past four? https://www.theguardian.com/education/2004/oct/21/research.highereducation1 > > Gordon, P. (2004). Numerical cognition without words: Evidence from Amazonia. Science, 306(5695), 496-499. > > 29. Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? > Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? What is science and how is it different from non-science or pseudoscience? Philosophers like positivist Popper tried to develop criteria of science based on what individual scientist does (according to the scientist?s own record). Latour, who had training in anthropology studying African indigenous religions, approach to study of science differently -- like an anthropologist. He decided to study not what scientists say about what they do, but actual practice of science making (science-in-action). He then compared his findings with scientists' claims and got two face Janus... > > > > Readings: > > Popper, K. (1998). Science: Conjectures and refutations. In M. Curd & J. A. Cover (Eds.), Philosophy of science: The central issues (1st ed., pp. 3-9). New York: W.W. Norton. > > Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and engineers through society (intro and ch.1, pp. 1-62). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > 30. Science in school > What is the purpose of science education? What is science teaching about? Is it about providing hands-on activities where students will discover scientific facts for themselves? Or should science classroom promote scientific thinking in every students as a set of individual skills? Or should science classes reproduce scientific communities? Or should science create "semantic networks" of talking science? Or should it involve students' identity? Why do school alumni know little science? Some do students become scientists but many do not? Why are fewer women or minority scientists there? > > Readings: > > Lemke, J. L. (1990). Talking science: Language, learning, and values (ch.1, pp. 1-24). Norwood, NJ: Ablex Pub. Corp. > > Matusov, E. (2016, submitted). What kills science in school?: Lessons from pre-service teachers? responses to urban children?s science inquiries, 1-25. > > Brickhouse, N. W., Lowery, P., & Schultz, K. (2000). What kind of a girl does science? The construction of school science identities. Journal of Research in Science Teaching, 37(5), 441-458. > > > > > > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 13 14:59:59 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 15:59:59 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: Sociocultural Theories in Education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eugene, Wow! I feel silly adding anything to your list, but I just thought that you could add one more thing to your readings for Topic 27 (Ways of talking, writing, and reading) and that would be Shirley Brice Heath?s Ways of Knowing, a rich ethnographic approach to the uses of literacy in three communities. Henry > On Aug 12, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > > Dear XMCAers? > > > > Thanks A LOT to many of you who sent your syllabi and suggestions in response to Ana?s request for the ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? course. I do not have the access to XMCA so I asked Ana to ask you. > > > > I have created a draft of the Curricular Map for my doctoral fall seminar, EDUC855 ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? ? 30 topics (please, see below). My EDUC855 grad students will have a chance to choose topics that they want to study from the Curricular Map and to add new topics of their interest that may be relevant to the class. For each topic, I created it?s label, descriptive teaser and readings. The order if the topics is not important because my students will select a topic they will want to study for a next class. In developing the topics, I focus on sociocultural theories, approaches, applications, and debates. Please do not be concerned about, at times, huge amount of readings for some topics as my students will choose how much they will want to read for each selected topic. Actually, I have completely eliminated homework in my classes and limited in-class reading to 20-30 min. This promotes students self-assignment when they want to study on their own a topic of their own interest (sometimes beyond the semester). > > > > Can you look through my topics to see if I missed something important in terms of sociocultural educational theories, approaches, applications, debates, and readings, please? I?d appreciate your suggestions, including changing titles of topics of their descriptive teasers. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eugene > > > > PS (by Ana): Please send your responses to Eugene at ematusov@udel.edu > > > > Curricular map for EDUC855.16F: Sociocultural Theories of Education > > > > 1. Orientation to the class curriculum. Psychological sociocultural approaches (James Wertsch) > Introduction to the course. Why are you taking this class? What do you want to learn? What is ?sociocultural? theory/approach to education? What theory/approach is not ?sociocultural?? Diverse answers to these questions. > > Diverse sociocultural approaches: Curricular Map for our class. Approaches, dialogic oppositions and applications. > > Sociological view of our class: who you are and who am I? Am I a ?student,? or a ?learner,? or both, or neither? How do you want to be treated in the class: as a ?student? or as a ?learner? or both? What does it mean in practical terms? Our roles in the class mediated by syllabus. Diverse type of syllabus: Closed Syllabi, Opening Syllabi, Open Syllabi. What should type of syllabus be in our class? Curriculum as content (stuff to study) vs. vista (diverse perspectives on the societal practices and institutions of education). Giving table of context of textbooks and conventional syllabus curricula. Virtual people in the practice. What type of learning activities do we want in our class? Class web (do we need it). What is our next topic? > > Readings: > > Wertsch, J. V. (1989). A sociocultural approach to mind: Some theoretical considerations. Cultural Dynamics, 2(2), 140-161. > > Wertsch, J. V. (1991). Voices of the mind: A sociocultural approach to mediated action. Cambridge, MA: Cambridge Press. > > 2. Lev Vygotsky's sociohistorical theory > How do development and learning relate? Individual and social: cultural, communal, and practice-based... Are we losing agency? One of the major contribution of Vygotsky in developmental psychology and education is that he showed that individual development is NOT rooted in individual -- not even in his/her interaction with the environment, -- but rather in a culture. The key concept for this idea is the "zone of proximal development" (ZPD) created, according to Vygotsky, in a joint activity with more knowledgeable others (peers or adults). Matusov argues that although Vygotsky demonstrated that development is a social and cultural process, he still assumed that the result of the development is individual property of doing everything well by him/herself. According to Matusov, Vygotsky was culturally biased assuming that mastery of solo activity is developmentally more advanced than joint activity with others. Lave resolves the described dichotomy of individual and social by considering an individual as a member of a "community of practice." Do you think that these scholars has gone too far in their emphasis on the social, cultural, and communal nature of human development that they have "forgotten" about individual human agency? What do you think? > > > Readings: > > Vygotsky, L. S. (1978). Mind in society: The development of higher psychological processes (ch. 6, 79-91). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > Matusov, E. (1998). When solo activity is not privileged: Participation and internalization models of development. Human Development, 41(5-6), 326-349. > > Lave, J. (1992, April). Learning as participation in communities of practice (1-6). Paper presented at the meeting of the American Educational Research Association, San Francisco, CA. > > 3. Mediation (Wolfgang K?hler): 6) Cognition as mediation: Cognition in a cage vs. cognition in the wild > What is cognition? What is stupidity? What defines thinking? Smart affordances vs. mediation. Is cognition in a cage different or similar to cognition in the wild? > > Readings: > > K?hler, W. (1927). The mentality of apes (intro, ch1, pp. 1-24). London: Routledge and Kegan Paul. > > Waal, F. B. M. d. (1989). Chimpanzee politics: Power and sex among apes (pp. 86-139). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. > > 4. Cognition: Universal vs Particular > Cultural diversity and universality in cognition: Do "primitives" have abstract reasoning? These three sequential chapters (please read them in this order) present one story about how Western culture views traditional cultures. Luria's chapter presents a "deficit model" of portraying others by focusing on deficits in thinking of others. Scribner, who replicated Luria's research and got the same results reinterpreted the findings. She not only found evidence of abstract formal thinking in traditional people's reasoning but she also found a "strange property" of such Western practice as syllogisms. Scribner raised a question of why these practices developed in the history of Western civilizations and what it has to do with schooling. Finally, Latour seems to take the matter further by challenging the idea of illogical and irrational thinking and behavior arguing that "irrationality" can be evidence of cultural "egocentrism" (in Piagetian terms) of the Western observer who is ignorant of his or her own cultural, institutional, and historical contexts in which thinking and behavior are situated. It appears that in the x-cultural studies like Luria's one we learn more about observers and researchers than about observed. Which returns back to Scribner's quest about schooling and asking questions that do not make practical sense (e.g., syllogisms). > > > > Readings: > > Luria, A. R. (1976). Cognitive development, its cultural and social foundations (ch. 1, 3-19; ch. 5, 117-134). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > Scribner, S. (1977). Modes of thinking and ways of speaking: Culture and logic reconsidered. In P. N. Johnson-Laird & P. C. Wason (Eds.), Thinking (pp. 483-500). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and engineers through society (ch. 5, pp. 179-213). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > 5. Western schooling and non-Western informal learning > How guidance in informal learning is different/similar to guidance in school? About a decade ago, a friend and colleague of mine returned from Togo, a West African country on the Gulf of Guinea, where he taught mathematics for nine months in a local university. He told me that the native people of Togo do not care about their kids and do not teach them anything. The kids grow like wild grass under the sky and are left to their own devices. My friend gave me a long list of what Togo adults and children do that does not, from his point of view, constitute guidance. Knowing (in an abstract way) the complexity of human practices in any given society, I could not believe his conclusion about the Togo people; however, I felt also that he was probably faced there with some very interesting and real phenomenon. > > Dutch researcher Mari?tte de Haan?s book about how Mexican Mazahua Indian children learn in their community and in school helps me to understand the phenomenon that my friend faced in Togo. It is not because I believe that how adults provide guidance and children learn in Togo and Mazahua communities are necessarily similar but because to a high degree the phenomenon centers around people from Western middle-class communities to which my friend and I belong. To be exact, it is about relations between the communities. For a long time, Western educators and psychological researchers have believed that ?guidance is guidance? and ?learning is learning? ? they are universal everywhere. Wood, Bruner, and Ross? pioneering research on adult guidance described important principles of adult engagement with children in adult-child tutoring sessions that the authors called ?scaffolding? (see article by Wood, Bruner and Ross). Rogoff (1990) presented these principles of scaffolding. It appears that my friend could not find these principles in the interactions between Togo adults and children and, thus, he concluded that there was no guidance. Similarly, in de Haan?s research, a non-Mazahua, Mestizo informant reported that Mazahua parents are ?not interested in their children? and do not educate? them (p. 74). > > > > Readings: > > Wood, D., Bruner, J. S., & Ross, G. (1976). The role of tutoring in problem solving. Journal of Child psychology and Psychiatry, 17, 89-100. > > de Haan, M. (1999). Learning as cultural practice: How children learn in a Mexican Mazahua community (ch. 5, 6). Amsterdam: Thela Thesis. > > 6. Activity Theory (Vasiliy Davydov, Yrj? Engestr?m) > Activity Theory claims that human (and higher animals') subjectivity is shaped by their purposeful activities, by their goals. Goals make human activity meaningful. However, goals are undergoing through transformation in the activity. Activity, based on overcoming obstacles, generates the subject and the object mediated by tools and solutions. Activities involve contradictions. Learning is a by-product of a purposeful activity. To teach means to engage students in certain activities that are meaningful, i.e., purposeful, for the students. > > Readings: > > Davydov, V. V. (1998). The concept of developmental teaching. Journal of Russian & East European Psychology, 36(4), 11-36. > > Davydov, V. V., & Tsvetkovich, Z. (1991). On the objective origin of the concept of fractions. Focus on learning problems in Mathematics, 13(1), 13-64. > > Engestr?m, Y. (1987). Learning by expanding: An activity-theoretic approach to developmental research. Helsinki, Finland: Orienta-Konsultit Oy. > > Engestr?m, Y., Miettinen, R., & Punam?aki-Gitai, R.-L. (1999). Perspectives on activity theory. New York: Cambridge University Press. > > 7. Situated cognition (Jean Lave and others): Math in school and everyday life > Math in everyday life: Does school help to do everyday math? School assumes to prepare students for "real life." But does it? Does school math help everyday math? Do people use in grocery store the same math that is used in schools? If school does not teach math used in other practices what does it teach? Why do we need schools? > > Readings: > > S?lj?, R., & Wyndhamn, J. (1993). Solving everyday problems in the formal setting: An empirical study of the school as context for thought. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice. Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 327-342). New York: Cambridge University Press. > > Lave, J. (1988). Cognition in practice: Mind, mathematics, and culture in everyday life (chs. 4-6, pp. 76-144). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > Hutchins, E. (1983). Understanding Micronesian navigation. In D. Gentner & A. L. Stevens (Eds.), Mental models (pp. 191-225). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum Associates. > > 8. Teaching as cultural practice: Math in schools > Teaching as a cultural practice: What does it take to be a good math teacher? What does it mean to teach math in context? Does it mean using everyday contexts for math word problems? Or using hands-on manipulatives? Or fieldtrips? Or engaging kinds in personal and social math-based activism? What kind of math should school teach and how? Is teaching governed by pedagogical techniques or by cultural practices? Can teaching be borrowed from another culture? > > > > Readings: > > Stevenson, H. W., & Stigler, J. W. (1992). The learning gap: Why our schools are failing and what we can learn from Japanese and Chinese education (ch. 9, pp. 174-199). New York: Summit Books. > > Lave, J. (1992). Word problems: A microcosm of theories of learning. In P. Light & G. Butterworth (Eds.), Context and cognition: Ways of learning and knowing (pp. 74-92). Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. > > Mukhopadhyay, S., & Greer, B. (2001). Modeling with purpose: Mathematics as a critical tool. In B. Atweh, H. Forgasz & B. Nebres (Eds.), Sociocultural research on mathematics education: An international perspective (pp. 295-311). Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. > > 9. Community of practice (Jean Lave, Etienne Wenger) > Learning is viewed as transformation of participation and identity in a community of practice as the participants become legitimate peripheral participants. Learning is not separate from social relationships -- a membership in a community of practice. A community is defined by a shared practice, in which the members participate. > > Readings: > > Lave, J., & Wenger, E. (1991). Situated learning: Legitimate peripheral participation. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > Wenger, E. (1998). Communities of practice: Learning, meaning, and identity. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > 10. Community of learners (Ann Brown, Joe Campione) > The idea of a community of learners is based on the premise that learning occurs as people participate in shared endeavors with others, with all playing active but often asymmetrical roles in sociocultural activity. This contrasts with models of learning that are based on one-sided notions of learning? either that it occurs through transmission of knowledge from experts or acquisition of knowledge by novices, with the learner or the others (respectively) in a passive role. > > Readings > > Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1994). Guided discovery in a community of learners. In K. McGilly (Ed.), Classroom lessons: Integrating cognitive theory and classroom practice. (pp. 229-270). Cambridge, MA,: The MIT Press. > > Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1998). Designing a community of young learners: Theoretical and practical lessons. In N. M. Lambert & B. L. McCombs (Eds.), How students learn: Reforming schools through learner-centered education (pp. 153-186). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association. > > Rogoff, B., Matusov, E., & White, C. (1996). Models of teaching and learning: Participation in a community of learners. In D. R. Olson & N. Torrance (Eds.), The handbook of education and human development: New models of learning, teaching and schooling (pp. 388-414). Malden, MA, US: Blackwell Publishers Inc. > > Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Han, S. (2012). Community of Learners: Ontological and non-ontological projects. Outlines: Critical Social Studies, 14(1), 41-72. > > 11. Cultural and social reproduction (Pierre Bourdieu) > In Bourdieu?s social reproduction thesis. Cultural capital is assumed to be one of the central family based endowments whose social class value impacts offspring intergenerational educational probabilities unequally. Inequalities in educational stratification and occupational achievement are reproduced via schools. As an analytic concept, cultural capital has generated considerable interest. But as a mechanism of class analysis the social reproduction thesis, and the role of cultural capital in it, cannot be confirmed empirically in large - scale representative, longitudinal data (or across various national settings). The role of teachers and schools, argued in Bourdieu?s theory to be central agents of exclusion and reproduction of class inequality connecting families to stratification outcomes cannot be confirmed in quantitative research. Cultural capital seen strictly as a mechanism of class reproduction as specified in Bourdieu?s framework, has limited analytic potential that restricts its application in multicultural societies. > > Readings: > > Bourdieu, P. (1977). Cultural reproduction and social reproduction (pp. 487-611). In Power and ideology in education, edited by J. Karabel and A. H. Halsey. New York, NY: Oxford University Press. > > Bourdieu, P., & Passeron, J. C. (1990). Reproduction in education, society, and culture. London: Sage. > > Bowles, S., & Gintis, H. (1976). Schooling in capitalist America: Educational reform and the contradictions of economic life. New York: Basic Books. > > 12. Cultural apprenticeship (Jean Lave, Barbara Rogoff) > The cultural apprentice perspective is an educational theory of apprenticeship concerning the process of learning through cultural, social, and physical integration into the practices associated with the subject, such as workplace training. By developing similar performance to other practitioners, an apprentice will come to understand the tacit (informally taught) duties of the position. In the process of creating this awareness, the learner also affect their environment; as they are accepted by master practitioners, their specific talents and contributions within the field are taken into account and integrated into the overall practice. > > The Apprenticeship Perspective can be used to teach procedures to students. For example, tying a shoe, building a fire, and taking blood can all use the Apprenticeship Perspective to teach students these skills. However, it can be used to develop master practitioners in fields that involve increased complexity, numerous webs of interaction, or shifting environments demanding constant attention. Driver education, flight training and sports training all use the Apprenticeship Perspective for learners to learn a specific skill. > > Readings > > Rogoff, B. (1990). Apprenticeship in thinking: Cognitive development in social context. New York: Oxford University Press. > > Lave, J. (2011). Apprenticeship in critical ethnographic practice. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. > > 13. Funds of knowledge and culturally responsive pedagogy (Luis Moll, Gloria Landson-Billings) > Funds of knowledge is defined by researchers Luis Moll, Cathy Amanti, Deborah Neff, and Norma Gonzalez (2001) ?to refer to the historically accumulated and culturally developed bodies of knowledge and skills essential for household or individual functioning and well-being? (p. 133). When teachers shed their role of teacher and expert and, instead, take on a new role as learner, they can come to know their students and the families of their students in new and distinct ways. With this new knowledge, they can begin to see that the households of their students contain rich cultural and cognitive resources and that these resources can and should be used in their classroom in order to provide culturally responsive and meaningful lessons that tap students? prior knowledge. Information that teachers learn about their students in this process is considered the student?s funds of knowledge. > > Culturally relevant or responsive teaching is a pedagogy grounded in teachers' displaying cultural competence: skill at teaching in a cross-cultural or multicultural setting. They enable each student to relate course content to his or her cultural context. While the term culturally relevant teaching often deals specifically with instruction of African American students in the United States. It has been proven to be an effective form of pedagogy for students of all racial and ethnic backgrounds. For instance, in Canada, research reflects the need to bridge the gap between traditional Aboriginal education and Western education systems by including spirituality in Aboriginal educational practices. By making education culturally relevant, it is thought to improve academic achievement. Although the majority of this practice is undertaken in a primary or secondary school setting, > > Readings: > > Moll, L. C., Amanti, C., Neff, D., & Gonz?lez, N. (1992). Funds of knowledge for teaching: Using a qualitative approach to connect homes and classrooms. Theory into Practice, 31(2), 132-141. > > Ladson-Billings, G. (1995). Toward a theory of culturally relevant pedagogy. American Educational Research Journal, 32(3), 465-491. > > 14. Ecological historical approach to minority school failure (John Ogbu) > Why do so many minority students fail in school? Debate on home-school mismatch and involuntary minorities. Different scholars explain differently of minority students disproportionably fail in school. Vogt, Jordan and Tharp refer to the home-school cultural mismatch as the main source of failure. While Ogbu argues that history of the minority is more important than a cultural mismatch. To solve the problem, Delpit suggests teaching minority students "the master's tools" and culture in an explicit way. However, Gee argues that it is impossible to destroy "the master's house using the master's tools" -- the critical review of institutional power in schools is due. > > > > Readings: > > Ogbu, J. U. (1990). Literacy and schooling in subordinate cultures: The case of Black Americans. In K. Lomotey (Ed.), Going to school: The African-American experience (pp. 113-131). Albany, NY, US: State University of New York Press. > > Vogt, L. A., Jordan, C., & Tharp, R. G. (1987). Explaining school failure, producing school success: Two cases. Anthropology & Education Quarterly, 18(4), 276-286. > > Delpit, L. D. (1995). Other people's children: Cultural conflict in the classroom (pp. 152-166). New York: New Press: Distributed by W.W. Norton. > > Gee, J. P. (1996). Social linguistics and literacies: Ideology in discourses (ch.1, viii-21). London: Taylor & Francis. > > 15. Culture as disability (Ray McDermott): School success and school failure > Design of academic success and failure in school: Where is academic success and failure located? Learning and teaching disabilities... Why do some children fail in school while others succeed? Traditionally to answer these questions, educators, scholars and general public refer to individual properties of the students: natural intellect, motivation, learning disabilities, giftedness, attitude, and so on. The following readings represent another approach although. These scholars argue that academic success and failure design by schools. Yes, schools despite their all claims to commitment to "educate all children" (cf. Labaree's first goal of schools of "democratic participation"), schools are busy designing school successes of whom are below average. As Labaree argues, success for all would inflate school credentials and thus would undermine the social mobility goal of school. However, how success and failure are designed in classrooms? How the dynamics set that produce school failure and school success on a systematic basis? > > > > Readings: > > McDermott, R. P. (1993). The acquisition of a child by a learning disability. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice: Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 269-305). New York: Cambridge University Press. > > Varenne, H., & McDermott, R. P. (1998). Successful failure: The school America builds (Ch. 5, pp 106-128). Boulder, CO: Westview Press. > > Matusov, E., DePalma, R., & Drye, S. (2007). Whose development? Salvaging the concept of development within a sociocultural approach to education. Educational Theory, 57(4), 403-421. > > 16. Feminism (Carol Gilligan) > Many feminists believe that women are being suppressed by a male-dominated society both in education and also in later life. They argue that the curriculum is more based around traditionally male-dominated subjects. Thus it sets up men more than women for further education or more prosperous work opportunities. Coupled with this is the stereotypical view of a woman?s part in society ? of becoming housewives, marrying early and having children. Feminists argue that this contributes to the suppression put on women by the male-run society. > > Sociologists Heaton and Lawson (1996, p. 76) argue that the ?hidden? curriculum is a major source of gender socialisation within schools. They believe that schools seemed to show or have: text books with modern family culture and where children are taught from an early age that males are dominant within the family; various subjects are aimed at a certain gender group, for example Food Technology would be aimed at females, leading on to the typical role of females doing housework and cooking; sports in schools are very much male and female dominated within the education system, with boys playing rugby and cricket while girls play netball and rounders. It could be seen that the majority of teachers are female, but that the senior management positions are mainly male-dominated, although this is not the case in some schools. > > Readings: > > Gilligan, C. (1993). In a different voice: Psychological theory and women's development. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > Purvis, J. (1994). Feminist theory in education. British Journal of Sociology of Education, 15(1), 137-140. > > 17. Critical race theory in education (Gloria Ladson-Billings) > Critical race theory (CRT) is an analytical framework that stems from the field of critical legal studies that addresses the racial inequities in society. Critical race theory (CRT) recognizes that racism is endemic to American life, expresses skepticism toward dominant legal claims of neutrality, objectivity, colorblindness, and meritocracy challenges ahistoricism and insists on a contextual/historical analysis off the law (and education) presumes that racism has contributed to all contemporary manifestations off group advantage and disadvantage. Scholars of education have used CRT as a framework to further analyze and critique educational research and practice. > > Reading: > > Ladson-Billings, G., & Tate, W. F. (1995). Toward a critical race theory of education. Teachers college record, 97(1), 47-68. > > Dixson, A. D., & Rousseau, C. K. (2006). Critical race theory in education: All God's children got a song. New York: Routledge. > > Parker, L., Deyhle, D., & Villenas, S. A. (1999). Race is-- race isn't: Critical race theory and qualitative studies in education. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. > > Lynn, M., & Dixson, A. D. (2013). Handbook of critical race theory in education. New York: Routledge. > > 18. Ecological approaches (Urie Bronfenbrenner, James Gibson): Contextualism and affordances in psychology education > What is context? Is it a factor that can be considered separately in addition to a main, universal function (e.g., cognition, learning) or is it an inseparable part of the any phenomenon? Is context objective, existing outside of a psychological phenomenon, or is it subjective and a part of a psychological phenomenon? What kinds of contexts exist? Why context is important for learning? Purposeful activity vs affordances: all "action possibilities" latent in the environment, independent of an individual's ability to recognize them, but always in relation to agents (people or animals) and therefore dependent on their capabilities. For instance, a set of steps which rises four feet high does not afford the act of climbing if the actor is a crawling infant. Gibson's is the prevalent definition in cognitive psychology. > > > > Readings: > > Bronfenbrenner, U. (1995). Bioecological model from a life course perspective: Reflections of a participant observer. In Moen, P., Elder Jr., G. H., and Luscher, K. (Eds), Examining lives in context: Perspectives on the ecology of human development (pp. 599-647). Washington DC: APA. > > Cole, M. (1995). The supra-individual envelope of development: Activity and practice, situation and context. In J. J. Goodnow, P. J. Miller & et al. (Eds.), Cultural practices as contexts for development (pp. 105-118). San Francisco, CA, US: Jossey-Bass Inc, Publishers. > > Gibson, J. J. (1979). The ecological approach to visual perception. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. > > Gibson, E. J. (2002). Perceiving the affordances: A portrait of two psychologists. Mahwah, NJ: L. Erlbaum Associates. > > 19. Connectionism and actor-networks theory (George Siemens, Bruno Latour) > Which skills and practices are relevant to an even changing world, and how are those skills addressed in current educational practices? Technology-mediated personal learning networks: How does "connectivism" (as defined by George Siemens) impact our view of what knowledge or expertise are? Including technology and connection making as learning activities begins to move learning theories into a digital age. We can no longer personally experience and acquire learning that we need to act. We derive our competence from forming connections. Chaos is a new reality for knowledge workers. Unlike constructivism, which states that learners attempt to foster understanding by meaning making tasks, chaos states that the meaning exists ? the learner's challenge is to recognize the patterns which appear to be hidden. Meaning-making and forming connections between specialized communities are important activities. Chaos, as a science, recognizes the connection of everything to everything. > > Connectivism is the integration of principles explored by chaos, network, and complexity and self-organization theories. Learning is a process that occurs within nebulous environments of shifting core elements ? not entirely under the control of the individual. Learning (defined as actionable knowledge) can reside outside of ourselves (within an organization or a database), is focused on connecting specialized information sets, and the connections that enable us to learn more are more important than our current state of knowing. > > Readings: > > Siemens, G. (2005). Connectivism: A learning theory for the digital age. International Journal of Instructional Technology and Distance Learning, 2(1), 1-8. Retrieved fromhttp://itdl.org/Journal/Jan_05/article01.htm > > Latour, B. (1996). On actor-network theory: A few clarifications plus more than a few complications. Retrieved from http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/P-67%20ACTOR-NETWORK.pdf > > Latour, B. (1996). Aramis, or, The love of technology. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > 20. Dialogism (Mikhail Bakhtin, Paulo Freire, Socrates) > Russian philosopher of dialogism Mikhail Bakhtin argued that meaning making process is dialogic in its nature and occurs in the relationship between genuine question and seriously answer. Can education be dialogic in this sense, when the teacher knows "more" and students know "less"? Ironically, Bakhtin used examples of conventional educational practices to illustrate his notion of "excessive monologism." Should education focus on critical meaning making or on students' arriving at the curricular endpoints, preset by the teacher in advance (e.g., educational standards, common core)? If dialogic pedagogy possible, what is its goal and what can be the teacher's role in it, as a genuine dialogic partner? > > Readings: > > Plato, & Bluck, R. S. (1961). Meno. Cambridge, UK: University Press. > > Freire, P. (1986). Pedagogy of the oppressed. New York: Continuum. > > Matusov, E. (2009). Journey into dialogic pedagogy. Hauppauge, NY: Nova Science Publishers. > > Sidorkin, A. M. (1999). Beyond discourse: Education, the self, and dialogue. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. > > Wegerif, R. (2007). Dialogic, educational and technology: Expanding the space of learning. New York: Springer-Verlag. > > 21. Authorial Agency (Eugene Matusov) > Authorial agency focuses on the production of culture, which is the individual?s unique culture making activity on larger, more recognizable, and smaller, less recognizable, scales. Authorial agency is defined through socially recognized personal transcendence of the given ? a person?s transcendence of the given recognized positively and/or negatively by others and by the self, ?the subject desires recognition from another and is constituted through this recognition? The gaps embedded in repetition are, for Butler, the location of agency? (Clare, 2009, p. 51). Authorial agency is not freedom from the natural causes, necessities, ready-made culture, social dynamics, nature, and iron logic but rather it uses these as the material of transcendence. In the process of socially recognized transcendence of the given culture and practice, new goals, new definitions of quality, new motivations, new wills, new commitments, new skills, new knowledge, new relationships will emerge. > > In conventional technological education, students are expected to postpone exercising their authorial agency until they become fully equipped with the powerful cultural toolkit of essential knowledge, skills, attitudes, and dispositions ? i.e., after the education is fully completed. Student?s agency is usually neglected if not actively suppressed by the teachers as distraction from the preset curricula. Thus, learning is often alienated from the students? authorial agency. Occasionally, teachers may try to exploit students?authorial agency for engaging them into the prescribed curriculum but the teachers often worry that things may get out of control and the students may hijack the lesson (Kennedy, 2005). The technological approach to education sees its goal as the reproduction of the ready-made culture and in preparing students? future active participation in the ready-made culture. > > Readings: > > Matusov, E. (2011). Authorial teaching and learning. In E. J. White & M. Peters (Eds.), Bakhtinian pedagogy: Opportunities and challenges for research, policy and practice in education across the globe (pp. 21-46). New York: Peter Lang Publishers. > > Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Kayumova, S. (2016). Mapping concepts of agency in educational contexts. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science, 50(3), 420?446. doi: 10.1007/s12124-015-9334-2 > > 22. Cultural creolization (Eugene Matusov) > What is a cultural mismatch between the teacher's and students' cultural expectations and behavior? Have you experienced ones? What can educational problems result from a cultural mismatch? Is it possible to prevent cultural mismatches or not and why? How can a teacher recognize a cultural mismatch (and not intentional violation of cultural norms and expectations)? Facing a cultural mismatch, what should the teacher do: a) make the student learn and use only the cultural pattern of expectation and behavior dominant in the mainstream culture that the teacher belongs to, b) learn the student's cultural pattern of expectations and behavior for providing better guidance and comfort to the student, or c) something else (what is it and why)? What would you do, as a teacher, when face a cultural mismatch? > > Cultural creolization is based on a sociocultural family of approaches which treats the differences of the participants in multicultural settings as resources in the construction of new, precisely multi-cultural. or creole, learning communities rather than on fixing individuals' deficits. In this model, an appropriate pedagogical regime is conceived of as building a new, creole educational community that draws on the cultures and histories of children, teachers, instructors, and community leaders. > > Readings: > > Matusov, E., St. Julien, J., & Hayes, R. (2005). Building a creole educational community as the goal of multicultural education for preservice teachers. In L. V. Barnes (Ed.), Contemporary teaching and teacher issues (pp. 1-38). Hauppauge, NY: Nova Publishers. > > Matusov, E., Smith, M. P., Candela, M. A., & Lilu, K. (2007). ?Culture has no internal territory?: Culture as dialogue. In J. Valsiner & A. Rosa (Eds.), The Cambridge Handbook of Socio-Cultural Psychology (pp. 460-483). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. > > 23. Sociocultural psychological approaches as a response to the Information-Processing psychological framework > Arguably, a Sociocultural approach has emerged in part in a response to the Cognitive Revolution started in the 1950s and its Information-Processing approach (IP). The Information-Processing approach considers mind to be processing information, like some kind of a super-powerful computer, affected by diverse contextual factors. In contrast, a Sociocultural approach argues that mind is shaped by diverse contexts (e.g., societial, physical, cultural, institutional, dialogic, activity) and does not exist outside of these contexts. Below is an informative debate between information-processing and sociocultural paradigms, arguing "wrong questions." > > Readings > > Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1996). Situated learning and education. Educational Researcher, 25(4), 5-11. > > Greeno, J. G. (1997). On claims that answer the wrong questions. Educational Researcher, 26(1), 5-17. > > Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1997). Situated versus cognitive perspective: Form versus substance. Educational Researcher, 26(1), 18-21. > > > > 24. Learning and motivation in institutional contexts > Why are so many students who are not intrinsically motivated to learn in school? How and why do the school and society create non-motivated students? What shapes learning and motivation? Based on Labaree?s analysis, do you agree that that many low-income students are not motivated in school learning differently than unmotivated middle-class students, why, how? Can we change the situation with non-motivated students and if so, how? > > > > Readings: > > Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: The credentials race in American education (ch. 10, pp 250-262). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. > > Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: The credentials race in American education (ch. 1, pp 15-52). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. > > > > 25. Transfer and context > Does transfer of learning exist? If not "transfer" then what? Situated and information processing theories of cognition and learning. Where is learning located: in individuals' heads or in their activities? Is the purpose of schools to teach students decontextualized basic skills and how the students can apply these skills for different specific situations? Traditional schools are somewhat successful in teaching many (but not all) students how to pass school exams and tests on basic skills. The main educational paradox is that passing these tests does not guarantee that the students can successfully apply them for diverse specific situations. Many students could not recognize the situations requiring the basic skills learned in school or they apply wrong skills that are not appropriate for the given situation. Moreover, some people, who cannot pass the school basic skill tests, can very successful operate in specific situations. The described difficulties experienced by students of traditional schooling are called "transfer problem." > > Readings: > > Bransford, J. D., & Schwartz, D. L. (2001). Rethinking transfer: A simple proposal with multiple implications. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), 61-100. > > Beach, K. D. (1999). Consequential transitions: A sociocultural expedition beyond transfer in education. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), 101-139. > > Tuomi-Gr?hn, T., & Engestr?m, Y. (2003). Conceptualizing transfer: From standard notions to developmental perspectives. In T. Tuomi-Gr?hn & Y. Engestr?m (Eds.), Between school and work: New perspectives on transfer and boundary-crossing (1st ed., pp. 19-38). Amsterdam: Pergamon. > > Packer, M. (2001). The problem of transfer, and the sociocultural critique of schooling. Journal of the Learning Sciences, 10(4), 493-514. > > > > 26. Literacy, culture, and cognition > Does literacy changes human cognition? Do literate people think differently, more powerfully than illiterate? Ong says, "yes." Scribner, Cole, and Matusov say human cognition is shaped by practices and social relations in which literacy is embedded. Are you with Ong or Scribner, Cole and Matusov? Why? > > Readings: > > Ong, W. J. (1982). Orality and literacy: The technologizing of the word (ch. 2, pp. 28-43). New York: Methuen. > > Scribner, S., & Cole, M. (1988). Unpackaging literacy. In E. R. Kintgen, B. M. Kroll & M. Rose (Eds.), Perspectives on literacy (pp. 57-70). Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press. > > Matusov, E., & St. Julien, J. (2004). Print literacy as oppression: Cases of bureaucratic, colonial, totalitarian literacies and their implications for schooling. TEXT: International Journal, 24(2), 197-244. > > 27. Ways of talking, writing, and reading > Doesn?t non-Standard English reflect deficiency in one's talking and thinking or non-Standard English is full-developed language among other languages? Why do people, who form different cultural communities, organize their language differently? Whether and if so how can the teacher support diverse ways of talking in the classroom? Should the teacher do so? What do you think? > > Readings: > > Bereiter, C., & Engelmann, S. (1970). Language learning activities for the disadvantaged child (pp.5-9). New York: Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai Brith. > > Labov, W. (1974). Academic ignorance and Black intelligence. In R. J. Mueller, D. Ary & C. McCormick (Eds.), Readings in classroom learning and perception (pp. 328-345). New York: Praeger. > > Kaplan, R. B. (1966). Cultural thought patterns in inter-cultural education. Language Learning, 16(1-2), 1-21. > > 28. What happens when you can't count past four? Contexts in Cognition (developmental cognition) > Do contexts always necessarily affect cognition at its most basic level? For instance, it would be interesting to read about the Amazonia tribes?the Munduruku and the Piraha. These are two examples where their contexts are very different from ours and yet-- they have numerical systems similar to ours. Why is that? How do they differ when context is brought into the picture? How are they the same? > > Readings: > > Butterworth, B. (2004). What happens when you can't count past four? https://www.theguardian.com/education/2004/oct/21/research.highereducation1 > > Gordon, P. (2004). Numerical cognition without words: Evidence from Amazonia. Science, 306(5695), 496-499. > > 29. Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? > Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? What is science and how is it different from non-science or pseudoscience? Philosophers like positivist Popper tried to develop criteria of science based on what individual scientist does (according to the scientist?s own record). Latour, who had training in anthropology studying African indigenous religions, approach to study of science differently -- like an anthropologist. He decided to study not what scientists say about what they do, but actual practice of science making (science-in-action). He then compared his findings with scientists' claims and got two face Janus... > > > > Readings: > > Popper, K. (1998). Science: Conjectures and refutations. In M. Curd & J. A. Cover (Eds.), Philosophy of science: The central issues (1st ed., pp. 3-9). New York: W.W. Norton. > > Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and engineers through society (intro and ch.1, pp. 1-62). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. > > 30. Science in school > What is the purpose of science education? What is science teaching about? Is it about providing hands-on activities where students will discover scientific facts for themselves? Or should science classroom promote scientific thinking in every students as a set of individual skills? Or should science classes reproduce scientific communities? Or should science create "semantic networks" of talking science? Or should it involve students' identity? Why do school alumni know little science? Some do students become scientists but many do not? Why are fewer women or minority scientists there? > > Readings: > > Lemke, J. L. (1990). Talking science: Language, learning, and values (ch.1, pp. 1-24). Norwood, NJ: Ablex Pub. Corp. > > Matusov, E. (2016, submitted). What kills science in school?: Lessons from pre-service teachers? responses to urban children?s science inquiries, 1-25. > > Brickhouse, N. W., Lowery, P., & Schultz, K. (2000). What kind of a girl does science? The construction of school science identities. Journal of Research in Science Teaching, 37(5), 441-458. > > > > > > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 13 19:32:45 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 20:32:45 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: Sociocultural Theories in Education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <619AB7F4-5D50-4CD1-9CDE-E8222CE87195@gmail.com> You betcha! Enjoy the seminar! > On Aug 13, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Eugene Matusov wrote: > > Thanks A LOT, Henry! I added this book to the list. Very good addition! > > Eugene > > -----Original Message----- > From: HENRY SHONERD [mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 6:00 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: > Sociocultural Theories in Education > > Eugene, > Wow! > I feel silly adding anything to your list, but I just thought that you could > add one more thing to your readings for Topic 27 (Ways of talking, writing, > and reading) and that would be Shirley Brice Heath?s Ways of Knowing, a rich > ethnographic approach to the uses of literacy in three communities. > Henry > > >> On Aug 12, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane >> wrote: >> >> Dear XMCAers? >> >> >> >> Thanks A LOT to many of you who sent your syllabi and suggestions in >> response to Ana?s request for the ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? >> course. I do not have the access to XMCA so I asked Ana to ask you. >> >> >> >> I have created a draft of the Curricular Map for my doctoral fall seminar, >> EDUC855 ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? ? 30 topics (please, see >> below). My EDUC855 grad students will have a chance to choose topics that >> they want to study from the Curricular Map and to add new topics of their >> interest that may be relevant to the class. For each topic, I created it?s >> label, descriptive teaser and readings. The order if the topics is not >> important because my students will select a topic they will want to study >> for a next class. In developing the topics, I focus on sociocultural >> theories, approaches, applications, and debates. Please do not be >> concerned about, at times, huge amount of readings for some topics as my >> students will choose how much they will want to read for each selected >> topic. Actually, I have completely eliminated homework in my classes and >> limited in-class reading to 20-30 min. This promotes students >> self-assignment when they want to study on their own a topic of their own >> interest (sometimes beyond the semester). >> >> >> >> Can you look through my topics to see if I missed something important in >> terms of sociocultural educational theories, approaches, applications, >> debates, and readings, please? I?d appreciate your suggestions, including >> changing titles of topics of their descriptive teasers. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Eugene >> >> >> >> PS (by Ana): Please send your responses to Eugene at >> ematusov@udel.edu >> >> >> >> Curricular map for EDUC855.16F: Sociocultural Theories of Education >> >> >> >> 1. Orientation to the class curriculum. Psychological sociocultural >> approaches (James Wertsch) Introduction to the course. Why are you taking >> this class? What do you want to learn? What is ?sociocultural? >> theory/approach to education? What theory/approach is not ?sociocultural?? >> Diverse answers to these questions. >> >> Diverse sociocultural approaches: Curricular Map for our class. >> Approaches, dialogic oppositions and applications. >> >> Sociological view of our class: who you are and who am I? Am I a >> ?student,? or a ?learner,? or both, or neither? How do you want to be >> treated in the class: as a ?student? or as a ?learner? or both? What does >> it mean in practical terms? Our roles in the class mediated by syllabus. >> Diverse type of syllabus: Closed Syllabi, Opening Syllabi, Open Syllabi. >> What should type of syllabus be in our class? Curriculum as content (stuff >> to study) vs. vista (diverse perspectives on the societal practices and >> institutions of education). Giving table of context of textbooks and >> conventional syllabus curricula. Virtual people in the practice. What type >> of learning activities do we want in our class? Class web (do we need it). >> What is our next topic? >> >> Readings: >> >> Wertsch, J. V. (1989). A sociocultural approach to mind: Some theoretical >> considerations. Cultural Dynamics, 2(2), 140-161. >> >> Wertsch, J. V. (1991). Voices of the mind: A sociocultural approach to >> mediated action. Cambridge, MA: Cambridge Press. >> >> 2. Lev Vygotsky's sociohistorical theory How do development and >> learning relate? Individual and social: cultural, communal, and >> practice-based... Are we losing agency? One of the major contribution of >> Vygotsky in developmental psychology and education is that he showed that >> individual development is NOT rooted in individual -- not even in his/her >> interaction with the environment, -- but rather in a culture. The key >> concept for this idea is the "zone of proximal development" (ZPD) created, >> according to Vygotsky, in a joint activity with more knowledgeable others >> (peers or adults). Matusov argues that although Vygotsky demonstrated that >> development is a social and cultural process, he still assumed that the >> result of the development is individual property of doing everything well >> by him/herself. According to Matusov, Vygotsky was culturally biased >> assuming that mastery of solo activity is developmentally more advanced >> than joint activity with others. Lave resolves the described dichotomy of >> individual and social by considering an individual as a member of a >> "community of practice." Do you think that these scholars has gone too far >> in their emphasis on the social, cultural, and communal nature of human >> development that they have "forgotten" about individual human agency? What >> do you think? >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Vygotsky, L. S. (1978). Mind in society: The development of higher >> psychological processes (ch. 6, 79-91). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University >> Press. >> >> Matusov, E. (1998). When solo activity is not privileged: Participation >> and internalization models of development. Human Development, 41(5-6), >> 326-349. >> >> Lave, J. (1992, April). Learning as participation in communities of >> practice (1-6). Paper presented at the meeting of the American Educational >> Research Association, San Francisco, CA. >> >> 3. Mediation (Wolfgang K?hler): 6) Cognition as mediation: Cognition >> in a cage vs. cognition in the wild What is cognition? What is stupidity? >> What defines thinking? Smart affordances vs. mediation. Is cognition in a >> cage different or similar to cognition in the wild? >> >> Readings: >> >> K?hler, W. (1927). The mentality of apes (intro, ch1, pp. 1-24). London: >> Routledge and Kegan Paul. >> >> Waal, F. B. M. d. (1989). Chimpanzee politics: Power and sex among apes >> (pp. 86-139). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. >> >> 4. Cognition: Universal vs Particular >> Cultural diversity and universality in cognition: Do "primitives" have >> abstract reasoning? These three sequential chapters (please read them in >> this order) present one story about how Western culture views traditional >> cultures. Luria's chapter presents a "deficit model" of portraying others >> by focusing on deficits in thinking of others. Scribner, who replicated >> Luria's research and got the same results reinterpreted the findings. She >> not only found evidence of abstract formal thinking in traditional >> people's reasoning but she also found a "strange property" of such Western >> practice as syllogisms. Scribner raised a question of why these practices >> developed in the history of Western civilizations and what it has to do >> with schooling. Finally, Latour seems to take the matter further by >> challenging the idea of illogical and irrational thinking and behavior >> arguing that "irrationality" can be evidence of cultural "egocentrism" (in >> Piagetian terms) of the Western observer who is ignorant of his or her own >> cultural, institutional, and historical contexts in which thinking and >> behavior are situated. It appears that in the x-cultural studies like >> Luria's one we learn more about observers and researchers than about >> observed. Which returns back to Scribner's quest about schooling and >> asking questions that do not make practical sense (e.g., syllogisms). >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Luria, A. R. (1976). Cognitive development, its cultural and social >> foundations (ch. 1, 3-19; ch. 5, 117-134). Cambridge, MA: Harvard >> University Press. >> >> Scribner, S. (1977). Modes of thinking and ways of speaking: Culture and >> logic reconsidered. In P. N. Johnson-Laird & P. C. Wason (Eds.), Thinking >> (pp. 483-500). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and >> engineers through society (ch. 5, pp. 179-213). Cambridge, MA: Harvard >> University Press. >> >> 5. Western schooling and non-Western informal learning How guidance in >> informal learning is different/similar to guidance in school? About a >> decade ago, a friend and colleague of mine returned from Togo, a West >> African country on the Gulf of Guinea, where he taught mathematics for >> nine months in a local university. He told me that the native people of >> Togo do not care about their kids and do not teach them anything. The kids >> grow like wild grass under the sky and are left to their own devices. My >> friend gave me a long list of what Togo adults and children do that does >> not, from his point of view, constitute guidance. Knowing (in an abstract >> way) the complexity of human practices in any given society, I could not >> believe his conclusion about the Togo people; however, I felt also that he >> was probably faced there with some very interesting and real phenomenon. >> >> Dutch researcher Mari?tte de Haan?s book about how Mexican Mazahua Indian >> children learn in their community and in school helps me to understand the >> phenomenon that my friend faced in Togo. It is not because I believe that >> how adults provide guidance and children learn in Togo and Mazahua >> communities are necessarily similar but because to a high degree the >> phenomenon centers around people from Western middle-class communities to >> which my friend and I belong. To be exact, it is about relations between >> the communities. For a long time, Western educators and psychological >> researchers have believed that ?guidance is guidance? and ?learning is >> learning? ? they are universal everywhere. Wood, Bruner, and Ross? >> pioneering research on adult guidance described important principles of >> adult engagement with children in adult-child tutoring sessions that the >> authors called ?scaffolding? (see article by Wood, Bruner and Ross). >> Rogoff (1990) presented these principles of scaffolding. It appears that >> my friend could not find these principles in the interactions between Togo >> adults and children and, thus, he concluded that there was no guidance. >> Similarly, in de Haan?s research, a non-Mazahua, Mestizo informant >> reported that Mazahua parents are ?not interested in their children? and >> do not educate? them (p. 74). >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Wood, D., Bruner, J. S., & Ross, G. (1976). The role of tutoring in >> problem solving. Journal of Child psychology and Psychiatry, 17, 89-100. >> >> de Haan, M. (1999). Learning as cultural practice: How children learn in a >> Mexican Mazahua community (ch. 5, 6). Amsterdam: Thela Thesis. >> >> 6. Activity Theory (Vasiliy Davydov, Yrj? Engestr?m) Activity Theory >> claims that human (and higher animals') subjectivity is shaped by their >> purposeful activities, by their goals. Goals make human activity >> meaningful. However, goals are undergoing through transformation in the >> activity. Activity, based on overcoming obstacles, generates the subject >> and the object mediated by tools and solutions. Activities involve >> contradictions. Learning is a by-product of a purposeful activity. To >> teach means to engage students in certain activities that are meaningful, >> i.e., purposeful, for the students. >> >> Readings: >> >> Davydov, V. V. (1998). The concept of developmental teaching. Journal of >> Russian & East European Psychology, 36(4), 11-36. >> >> Davydov, V. V., & Tsvetkovich, Z. (1991). On the objective origin of the >> concept of fractions. Focus on learning problems in Mathematics, 13(1), >> 13-64. >> >> Engestr?m, Y. (1987). Learning by expanding: An activity-theoretic >> approach to developmental research. Helsinki, Finland: Orienta-Konsultit >> Oy. >> >> Engestr?m, Y., Miettinen, R., & Punam?aki-Gitai, R.-L. (1999). >> Perspectives on activity theory. New York: Cambridge University Press. >> >> 7. Situated cognition (Jean Lave and others): Math in school and >> everyday life Math in everyday life: Does school help to do everyday math? >> School assumes to prepare students for "real life." But does it? Does >> school math help everyday math? Do people use in grocery store the same >> math that is used in schools? If school does not teach math used in other >> practices what does it teach? Why do we need schools? >> >> Readings: >> >> S?lj?, R., & Wyndhamn, J. (1993). Solving everyday problems in the formal >> setting: An empirical study of the school as context for thought. In S. >> Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice. Perspectives on >> activity and context (pp. 327-342). New York: Cambridge University Press. >> >> Lave, J. (1988). Cognition in practice: Mind, mathematics, and culture in >> everyday life (chs. 4-6, pp. 76-144). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University >> Press. >> >> Hutchins, E. (1983). Understanding Micronesian navigation. In D. Gentner & >> A. L. Stevens (Eds.), Mental models (pp. 191-225). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum >> Associates. >> >> 8. Teaching as cultural practice: Math in schools Teaching as a >> cultural practice: What does it take to be a good math teacher? What does >> it mean to teach math in context? Does it mean using everyday contexts for >> math word problems? Or using hands-on manipulatives? Or fieldtrips? Or >> engaging kinds in personal and social math-based activism? What kind of >> math should school teach and how? Is teaching governed by pedagogical >> techniques or by cultural practices? Can teaching be borrowed from another >> culture? >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Stevenson, H. W., & Stigler, J. W. (1992). The learning gap: Why our >> schools are failing and what we can learn from Japanese and Chinese >> education (ch. 9, pp. 174-199). New York: Summit Books. >> >> Lave, J. (1992). Word problems: A microcosm of theories of learning. In P. >> Light & G. Butterworth (Eds.), Context and cognition: Ways of learning and >> knowing (pp. 74-92). Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. >> >> Mukhopadhyay, S., & Greer, B. (2001). Modeling with purpose: Mathematics >> as a critical tool. In B. Atweh, H. Forgasz & B. Nebres (Eds.), >> Sociocultural research on mathematics education: An international >> perspective (pp. 295-311). Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. >> >> 9. Community of practice (Jean Lave, Etienne Wenger) Learning is >> viewed as transformation of participation and identity in a community of >> practice as the participants become legitimate peripheral participants. >> Learning is not separate from social relationships -- a membership in a >> community of practice. A community is defined by a shared practice, in >> which the members participate. >> >> Readings: >> >> Lave, J., & Wenger, E. (1991). Situated learning: Legitimate peripheral >> participation. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> Wenger, E. (1998). Communities of practice: Learning, meaning, and >> identity. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> 10. Community of learners (Ann Brown, Joe Campione) The idea of a >> community of learners is based on the premise that learning occurs as >> people participate in shared endeavors with others, with all playing >> active but often asymmetrical roles in sociocultural activity. This >> contrasts with models of learning that are based on one-sided notions of >> learning? either that it occurs through transmission of knowledge from >> experts or acquisition of knowledge by novices, with the learner or the >> others (respectively) in a passive role. >> >> Readings >> >> Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1994). Guided discovery in a community of >> learners. In K. McGilly (Ed.), Classroom lessons: Integrating cognitive >> theory and classroom practice. (pp. 229-270). Cambridge, MA,: The MIT >> Press. >> >> Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1998). Designing a community of young >> learners: Theoretical and practical lessons. In N. M. Lambert & B. L. >> McCombs (Eds.), How students learn: Reforming schools through >> learner-centered education (pp. 153-186). Washington, DC: American >> Psychological Association. >> >> Rogoff, B., Matusov, E., & White, C. (1996). Models of teaching and >> learning: Participation in a community of learners. In D. R. Olson & N. >> Torrance (Eds.), The handbook of education and human development: New >> models of learning, teaching and schooling (pp. 388-414). Malden, MA, US: >> Blackwell Publishers Inc. >> >> Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Han, S. (2012). Community of Learners: >> Ontological and non-ontological projects. Outlines: Critical Social >> Studies, 14(1), 41-72. >> >> 11. Cultural and social reproduction (Pierre Bourdieu) In Bourdieu?s >> social reproduction thesis. Cultural capital is assumed to be one of the >> central family based endowments whose social class value impacts offspring >> intergenerational educational probabilities unequally. Inequalities in >> educational stratification and occupational achievement are reproduced via >> schools. As an analytic concept, cultural capital has generated >> considerable interest. But as a mechanism of class analysis the social >> reproduction thesis, and the role of cultural capital in it, cannot be >> confirmed empirically in large - scale representative, longitudinal data >> (or across various national settings). The role of teachers and schools, >> argued in Bourdieu?s theory to be central agents of exclusion and >> reproduction of class inequality connecting families to stratification >> outcomes cannot be confirmed in quantitative research. Cultural capital >> seen strictly as a mechanism of class reproduction as specified in >> Bourdieu?s framework, has limited analytic potential that restricts its >> application in multicultural societies. >> >> Readings: >> >> Bourdieu, P. (1977). Cultural reproduction and social reproduction (pp. >> 487-611). In Power and ideology in education, edited by J. Karabel and A. >> H. Halsey. New York, NY: Oxford University Press. >> >> Bourdieu, P., & Passeron, J. C. (1990). Reproduction in education, >> society, and culture. London: Sage. >> >> Bowles, S., & Gintis, H. (1976). Schooling in capitalist America: >> Educational reform and the contradictions of economic life. New York: >> Basic Books. >> >> 12. Cultural apprenticeship (Jean Lave, Barbara Rogoff) The cultural >> apprentice perspective is an educational theory of apprenticeship >> concerning the process of learning through cultural, social, and physical >> integration into the practices associated with the subject, such as >> workplace training. By developing similar performance to other >> practitioners, an apprentice will come to understand the tacit (informally >> taught) duties of the position. In the process of creating this awareness, >> the learner also affect their environment; as they are accepted by master >> practitioners, their specific talents and contributions within the field >> are taken into account and integrated into the overall practice. >> >> The Apprenticeship Perspective can be used to teach procedures to >> students. For example, tying a shoe, building a fire, and taking blood can >> all use the Apprenticeship Perspective to teach students these skills. >> However, it can be used to develop master practitioners in fields that >> involve increased complexity, numerous webs of interaction, or shifting >> environments demanding constant attention. Driver education, flight >> training and sports training all use the Apprenticeship Perspective for >> learners to learn a specific skill. >> >> Readings >> >> Rogoff, B. (1990). Apprenticeship in thinking: Cognitive development in >> social context. New York: Oxford University Press. >> >> Lave, J. (2011). Apprenticeship in critical ethnographic practice. >> Chicago: University of Chicago Press. >> >> 13. Funds of knowledge and culturally responsive pedagogy (Luis Moll, >> Gloria Landson-Billings) Funds of knowledge is defined by researchers Luis >> Moll, Cathy Amanti, Deborah Neff, and Norma Gonzalez (2001) ?to refer to >> the historically accumulated and culturally developed bodies of knowledge >> and skills essential for household or individual functioning and >> well-being? (p. 133). When teachers shed their role of teacher and expert >> and, instead, take on a new role as learner, they can come to know their >> students and the families of their students in new and distinct ways. With >> this new knowledge, they can begin to see that the households of their >> students contain rich cultural and cognitive resources and that these >> resources can and should be used in their classroom in order to provide >> culturally responsive and meaningful lessons that tap students? prior >> knowledge. Information that teachers learn about their students in this >> process is considered the student?s funds of knowledge. >> >> Culturally relevant or responsive teaching is a pedagogy grounded in >> teachers' displaying cultural competence: skill at teaching in a >> cross-cultural or multicultural setting. They enable each student to >> relate course content to his or her cultural context. While the term >> culturally relevant teaching often deals specifically with instruction >> of African American students in the United States. It has been proven >> to be an effective form of pedagogy for students of all racial and >> ethnic backgrounds. For instance, in Canada, research reflects the >> need to bridge the gap between traditional Aboriginal education and >> Western education systems by including spirituality in Aboriginal >> educational practices. By making education culturally relevant, it is >> thought to improve academic achievement. Although the majority of this >> practice is undertaken in a primary or secondary school setting, >> >> Readings: >> >> Moll, L. C., Amanti, C., Neff, D., & Gonz?lez, N. (1992). Funds of >> knowledge for teaching: Using a qualitative approach to connect homes and >> classrooms. Theory into Practice, 31(2), 132-141. >> >> Ladson-Billings, G. (1995). Toward a theory of culturally relevant >> pedagogy. American Educational Research Journal, 32(3), 465-491. >> >> 14. Ecological historical approach to minority school failure (John >> Ogbu) Why do so many minority students fail in school? Debate on >> home-school mismatch and involuntary minorities. Different scholars >> explain differently of minority students disproportionably fail in school. >> Vogt, Jordan and Tharp refer to the home-school cultural mismatch as the >> main source of failure. While Ogbu argues that history of the minority is >> more important than a cultural mismatch. To solve the problem, Delpit >> suggests teaching minority students "the master's tools" and culture in an >> explicit way. However, Gee argues that it is impossible to destroy "the >> master's house using the master's tools" -- the critical review of >> institutional power in schools is due. >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Ogbu, J. U. (1990). Literacy and schooling in subordinate cultures: The >> case of Black Americans. In K. Lomotey (Ed.), Going to school: The >> African-American experience (pp. 113-131). Albany, NY, US: State >> University of New York Press. >> >> Vogt, L. A., Jordan, C., & Tharp, R. G. (1987). Explaining school failure, >> producing school success: Two cases. Anthropology & Education Quarterly, >> 18(4), 276-286. >> >> Delpit, L. D. (1995). Other people's children: Cultural conflict in the >> classroom (pp. 152-166). New York: New Press: Distributed by W.W. Norton. >> >> Gee, J. P. (1996). Social linguistics and literacies: Ideology in >> discourses (ch.1, viii-21). London: Taylor & Francis. >> >> 15. Culture as disability (Ray McDermott): School success and school >> failure Design of academic success and failure in school: Where is >> academic success and failure located? Learning and teaching >> disabilities... Why do some children fail in school while others succeed? >> Traditionally to answer these questions, educators, scholars and general >> public refer to individual properties of the students: natural intellect, >> motivation, learning disabilities, giftedness, attitude, and so on. The >> following readings represent another approach although. These scholars >> argue that academic success and failure design by schools. Yes, schools >> despite their all claims to commitment to "educate all children" (cf. >> Labaree's first goal of schools of "democratic participation"), schools >> are busy designing school successes of whom are below average. As Labaree >> argues, success for all would inflate school credentials and thus would >> undermine the social mobility goal of school. However, how success and >> failure are designed in classrooms? How the dynamics set that produce >> school failure and school success on a systematic basis? >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> McDermott, R. P. (1993). The acquisition of a child by a learning >> disability. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice: >> Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 269-305). New York: Cambridge >> University Press. >> >> Varenne, H., & McDermott, R. P. (1998). Successful failure: The school >> America builds (Ch. 5, pp 106-128). Boulder, CO: Westview Press. >> >> Matusov, E., DePalma, R., & Drye, S. (2007). Whose development? Salvaging >> the concept of development within a sociocultural approach to education. >> Educational Theory, 57(4), 403-421. >> >> 16. Feminism (Carol Gilligan) >> Many feminists believe that women are being suppressed by a male-dominated >> society both in education and also in later life. They argue that the >> curriculum is more based around traditionally male-dominated subjects. >> Thus it sets up men more than women for further education or more >> prosperous work opportunities. Coupled with this is the stereotypical view >> of a woman?s part in society ? of becoming housewives, marrying early and >> having children. Feminists argue that this contributes to the suppression >> put on women by the male-run society. >> >> Sociologists Heaton and Lawson (1996, p. 76) argue that the ?hidden? >> curriculum is a major source of gender socialisation within schools. They >> believe that schools seemed to show or have: text books with modern family >> culture and where children are taught from an early age that males are >> dominant within the family; various subjects are aimed at a certain gender >> group, for example Food Technology would be aimed at females, leading on >> to the typical role of females doing housework and cooking; sports in >> schools are very much male and female dominated within the education >> system, with boys playing rugby and cricket while girls play netball and >> rounders. It could be seen that the majority of teachers are female, but >> that the senior management positions are mainly male-dominated, although >> this is not the case in some schools. >> >> Readings: >> >> Gilligan, C. (1993). In a different voice: Psychological theory and >> women's development. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. >> >> Purvis, J. (1994). Feminist theory in education. British Journal of >> Sociology of Education, 15(1), 137-140. >> >> 17. Critical race theory in education (Gloria Ladson-Billings) >> Critical race theory (CRT) is an analytical framework that stems from the >> field of critical legal studies that addresses the racial inequities in >> society. Critical race theory (CRT) recognizes that racism is endemic to >> American life, expresses skepticism toward dominant legal claims of >> neutrality, objectivity, colorblindness, and meritocracy challenges >> ahistoricism and insists on a contextual/historical analysis off the law >> (and education) presumes that racism has contributed to all contemporary >> manifestations off group advantage and disadvantage. Scholars of education >> have used CRT as a framework to further analyze and critique educational >> research and practice. >> >> Reading: >> >> Ladson-Billings, G., & Tate, W. F. (1995). Toward a critical race theory >> of education. Teachers college record, 97(1), 47-68. >> >> Dixson, A. D., & Rousseau, C. K. (2006). Critical race theory in >> education: All God's children got a song. New York: Routledge. >> >> Parker, L., Deyhle, D., & Villenas, S. A. (1999). Race is-- race isn't: >> Critical race theory and qualitative studies in education. Boulder, CO: >> Westview Press. >> >> Lynn, M., & Dixson, A. D. (2013). Handbook of critical race theory in >> education. New York: Routledge. >> >> 18. Ecological approaches (Urie Bronfenbrenner, James Gibson): >> Contextualism and affordances in psychology education What is context? Is >> it a factor that can be considered separately in addition to a main, >> universal function (e.g., cognition, learning) or is it an inseparable >> part of the any phenomenon? Is context objective, existing outside of a >> psychological phenomenon, or is it subjective and a part of a >> psychological phenomenon? What kinds of contexts exist? Why context is >> important for learning? Purposeful activity vs affordances: all "action >> possibilities" latent in the environment, independent of an individual's >> ability to recognize them, but always in relation to agents (people or >> animals) and therefore dependent on their capabilities. For instance, a >> set of steps which rises four feet high does not afford the act of >> climbing if the actor is a crawling infant. Gibson's is the prevalent >> definition in cognitive psychology. >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Bronfenbrenner, U. (1995). Bioecological model from a life course >> perspective: Reflections of a participant observer. In Moen, P., Elder >> Jr., G. H., and Luscher, K. (Eds), Examining lives in context: >> Perspectives on the ecology of human development (pp. 599-647). Washington >> DC: APA. >> >> Cole, M. (1995). The supra-individual envelope of development: Activity >> and practice, situation and context. In J. J. Goodnow, P. J. Miller & et >> al. (Eds.), Cultural practices as contexts for development (pp. 105-118). >> San Francisco, CA, US: Jossey-Bass Inc, Publishers. >> >> Gibson, J. J. (1979). The ecological approach to visual perception. >> Boston: Houghton Mifflin. >> >> Gibson, E. J. (2002). Perceiving the affordances: A portrait of two >> psychologists. Mahwah, NJ: L. Erlbaum Associates. >> >> 19. Connectionism and actor-networks theory (George Siemens, Bruno >> Latour) Which skills and practices are relevant to an even changing world, >> and how are those skills addressed in current educational practices? >> Technology-mediated personal learning networks: How does "connectivism" >> (as defined by George Siemens) impact our view of what knowledge or >> expertise are? Including technology and connection making as learning >> activities begins to move learning theories into a digital age. We can no >> longer personally experience and acquire learning that we need to act. We >> derive our competence from forming connections. Chaos is a new reality for >> knowledge workers. Unlike constructivism, which states that learners >> attempt to foster understanding by meaning making tasks, chaos states that >> the meaning exists ? the learner's challenge is to recognize the patterns >> which appear to be hidden. Meaning-making and forming connections between >> specialized communities are important activities. Chaos, as a science, >> recognizes the connection of everything to everything. >> >> Connectivism is the integration of principles explored by chaos, network, >> and complexity and self-organization theories. Learning is a process that >> occurs within nebulous environments of shifting core elements ? not >> entirely under the control of the individual. Learning (defined as >> actionable knowledge) can reside outside of ourselves (within an >> organization or a database), is focused on connecting specialized >> information sets, and the connections that enable us to learn more are >> more important than our current state of knowing. >> >> Readings: >> >> Siemens, G. (2005). Connectivism: A learning theory for the digital >> age. International Journal of Instructional Technology and Distance >> Learning, 2(1), 1-8. Retrieved >> fromhttp://itdl.org/Journal/Jan_05/article01.htm >> >> Latour, B. (1996). On actor-network theory: A few clarifications plus >> more than a few complications. Retrieved from >> http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/P-67%20ACTOR-NETWORK.pd >> f >> >> Latour, B. (1996). Aramis, or, The love of technology. Cambridge, MA: >> Harvard University Press. >> >> 20. Dialogism (Mikhail Bakhtin, Paulo Freire, Socrates) Russian >> philosopher of dialogism Mikhail Bakhtin argued that meaning making >> process is dialogic in its nature and occurs in the relationship between >> genuine question and seriously answer. Can education be dialogic in this >> sense, when the teacher knows "more" and students know "less"? Ironically, >> Bakhtin used examples of conventional educational practices to illustrate >> his notion of "excessive monologism." Should education focus on critical >> meaning making or on students' arriving at the curricular endpoints, >> preset by the teacher in advance (e.g., educational standards, common >> core)? If dialogic pedagogy possible, what is its goal and what can be the >> teacher's role in it, as a genuine dialogic partner? >> >> Readings: >> >> Plato, & Bluck, R. S. (1961). Meno. Cambridge, UK: University Press. >> >> Freire, P. (1986). Pedagogy of the oppressed. New York: Continuum. >> >> Matusov, E. (2009). Journey into dialogic pedagogy. Hauppauge, NY: Nova >> Science Publishers. >> >> Sidorkin, A. M. (1999). Beyond discourse: Education, the self, and >> dialogue. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. >> >> Wegerif, R. (2007). Dialogic, educational and technology: Expanding the >> space of learning. New York: Springer-Verlag. >> >> 21. Authorial Agency (Eugene Matusov) >> Authorial agency focuses on the production of culture, which is the >> individual?s unique culture making activity on larger, more recognizable, >> and smaller, less recognizable, scales. Authorial agency is defined >> through socially recognized personal transcendence of the given ? a person?s >> transcendence of the given recognized positively and/or negatively by >> others and by the self, ?the subject desires recognition from another and >> is constituted through this recognition? The gaps embedded in repetition >> are, for Butler, the location of agency? (Clare, 2009, p. 51). Authorial >> agency is not freedom from the natural causes, necessities, ready-made >> culture, social dynamics, nature, and iron logic but rather it uses these >> as the material of transcendence. In the process of socially recognized >> transcendence of the given culture and practice, new goals, new >> definitions of quality, new motivations, new wills, new commitments, new >> skills, new knowledge, new relationships will emerge. >> >> In conventional technological education, students are expected to postpone >> exercising their authorial agency until they become fully equipped with >> the powerful cultural toolkit of essential knowledge, skills, attitudes, >> and dispositions ? i.e., after the education is fully completed. Student?s >> agency is usually neglected if not actively suppressed by the teachers as >> distraction from the preset curricula. Thus, learning is often alienated >> from the students? authorial agency. Occasionally, teachers may try to >> exploit students?authorial agency for engaging them into the prescribed >> curriculum but the teachers often worry that things may get out of control >> and the students may hijack the lesson (Kennedy, 2005). The technological >> approach to education sees its goal as the reproduction of the ready-made >> culture and in preparing students? future active participation in the >> ready-made culture. >> >> Readings: >> >> Matusov, E. (2011). Authorial teaching and learning. In E. J. White & M. >> Peters (Eds.), Bakhtinian pedagogy: Opportunities and challenges for >> research, policy and practice in education across the globe (pp. 21-46). >> New York: Peter Lang Publishers. >> >> Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Kayumova, S. (2016). Mapping concepts of >> agency in educational contexts. Integrative Psychological and >> Behavioral Science, 50(3), 420?446. doi: 10.1007/s12124-015-9334-2 >> >> 22. Cultural creolization (Eugene Matusov) What is a cultural mismatch >> between the teacher's and students' cultural expectations and behavior? >> Have you experienced ones? What can educational problems result from a >> cultural mismatch? Is it possible to prevent cultural mismatches or not >> and why? How can a teacher recognize a cultural mismatch (and not >> intentional violation of cultural norms and expectations)? Facing a >> cultural mismatch, what should the teacher do: a) make the student learn >> and use only the cultural pattern of expectation and behavior dominant in >> the mainstream culture that the teacher belongs to, b) learn the student's >> cultural pattern of expectations and behavior for providing better >> guidance and comfort to the student, or c) something else (what is it and >> why)? What would you do, as a teacher, when face a cultural mismatch? >> >> Cultural creolization is based on a sociocultural family of approaches >> which treats the differences of the participants in multicultural settings >> as resources in the construction of new, precisely multi-cultural. or >> creole, learning communities rather than on fixing individuals' deficits. >> In this model, an appropriate pedagogical regime is conceived of as >> building a new, creole educational community that draws on the cultures >> and histories of children, teachers, instructors, and community leaders. >> >> Readings: >> >> Matusov, E., St. Julien, J., & Hayes, R. (2005). Building a creole >> educational community as the goal of multicultural education for >> preservice teachers. In L. V. Barnes (Ed.), Contemporary teaching and >> teacher issues (pp. 1-38). Hauppauge, NY: Nova Publishers. >> >> Matusov, E., Smith, M. P., Candela, M. A., & Lilu, K. (2007). ?Culture has >> no internal territory?: Culture as dialogue. In J. Valsiner & A. Rosa >> (Eds.), The Cambridge Handbook of Socio-Cultural Psychology (pp. 460-483). >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> 23. Sociocultural psychological approaches as a response to the >> Information-Processing psychological framework Arguably, a Sociocultural >> approach has emerged in part in a response to the Cognitive Revolution >> started in the 1950s and its Information-Processing approach (IP). The >> Information-Processing approach considers mind to be processing >> information, like some kind of a super-powerful computer, affected by >> diverse contextual factors. In contrast, a Sociocultural approach argues >> that mind is shaped by diverse contexts (e.g., societial, physical, >> cultural, institutional, dialogic, activity) and does not exist outside of >> these contexts. Below is an informative debate between >> information-processing and sociocultural paradigms, arguing "wrong >> questions." >> >> Readings >> >> Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1996). Situated learning >> and education. Educational Researcher, 25(4), 5-11. >> >> Greeno, J. G. (1997). On claims that answer the wrong questions. >> Educational Researcher, 26(1), 5-17. >> >> Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1997). Situated versus >> cognitive perspective: Form versus substance. Educational Researcher, >> 26(1), 18-21. >> >> >> >> 24. Learning and motivation in institutional contexts Why are so many >> students who are not intrinsically motivated to learn in school? How and >> why do the school and society create non-motivated students? What shapes >> learning and motivation? Based on Labaree?s analysis, do you agree that >> that many low-income students are not motivated in school learning >> differently than unmotivated middle-class students, why, how? Can we >> change the situation with non-motivated students and if so, how? >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: >> The credentials race in American education (ch. 10, pp 250-262). New >> Haven, CT: Yale University Press. >> >> Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: >> The credentials race in American education (ch. 1, pp 15-52). New Haven, >> CT: Yale University Press. >> >> >> >> 25. Transfer and context >> Does transfer of learning exist? If not "transfer" then what? Situated and >> information processing theories of cognition and learning. Where is >> learning located: in individuals' heads or in their activities? Is the >> purpose of schools to teach students decontextualized basic skills and how >> the students can apply these skills for different specific situations? >> Traditional schools are somewhat successful in teaching many (but not all) >> students how to pass school exams and tests on basic skills. The main >> educational paradox is that passing these tests does not guarantee that >> the students can successfully apply them for diverse specific situations. >> Many students could not recognize the situations requiring the basic >> skills learned in school or they apply wrong skills that are not >> appropriate for the given situation. Moreover, some people, who cannot >> pass the school basic skill tests, can very successful operate in specific >> situations. The described difficulties experienced by students of >> traditional schooling are called "transfer problem." >> >> Readings: >> >> Bransford, J. D., & Schwartz, D. L. (2001). Rethinking transfer: A simple >> proposal with multiple implications. Review of Research in Education, >> 24(3), 61-100. >> >> Beach, K. D. (1999). Consequential transitions: A sociocultural expedition >> beyond transfer in education. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), >> 101-139. >> >> Tuomi-Gr?hn, T., & Engestr?m, Y. (2003). Conceptualizing transfer: From >> standard notions to developmental perspectives. In T. Tuomi-Gr?hn & Y. >> Engestr?m (Eds.), Between school and work: New perspectives on transfer >> and boundary-crossing (1st ed., pp. 19-38). Amsterdam: Pergamon. >> >> Packer, M. (2001). The problem of transfer, and the sociocultural critique >> of schooling. Journal of the Learning Sciences, 10(4), 493-514. >> >> >> >> 26. Literacy, culture, and cognition >> Does literacy changes human cognition? Do literate people think >> differently, more powerfully than illiterate? Ong says, "yes." Scribner, >> Cole, and Matusov say human cognition is shaped by practices and social >> relations in which literacy is embedded. Are you with Ong or Scribner, >> Cole and Matusov? Why? >> >> Readings: >> >> Ong, W. J. (1982). Orality and literacy: The technologizing of the word >> (ch. 2, pp. 28-43). New York: Methuen. >> >> Scribner, S., & Cole, M. (1988). Unpackaging literacy. In E. R. Kintgen, >> B. M. Kroll & M. Rose (Eds.), Perspectives on literacy (pp. 57-70). >> Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press. >> >> Matusov, E., & St. Julien, J. (2004). Print literacy as oppression: Cases >> of bureaucratic, colonial, totalitarian literacies and their implications >> for schooling. TEXT: International Journal, 24(2), 197-244. >> >> 27. Ways of talking, writing, and reading Doesn?t non-Standard English >> reflect deficiency in one's talking and thinking or non-Standard English >> is full-developed language among other languages? Why do people, who form >> different cultural communities, organize their language differently? >> Whether and if so how can the teacher support diverse ways of talking in >> the classroom? Should the teacher do so? What do you think? >> >> Readings: >> >> Bereiter, C., & Engelmann, S. (1970). Language learning activities for the >> disadvantaged child (pp.5-9). New York: Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai >> Brith. >> >> Labov, W. (1974). Academic ignorance and Black intelligence. In R. J. >> Mueller, D. Ary & C. McCormick (Eds.), Readings in classroom learning and >> perception (pp. 328-345). New York: Praeger. >> >> Kaplan, R. B. (1966). Cultural thought patterns in inter-cultural >> education. Language Learning, 16(1-2), 1-21. >> >> 28. What happens when you can't count past four? Contexts in Cognition >> (developmental cognition) Do contexts always necessarily affect cognition >> at its most basic level? For instance, it would be interesting to read >> about the Amazonia tribes?the Munduruku and the Piraha. These are two >> examples where their contexts are very different from ours and yet-- they >> have numerical systems similar to ours. Why is that? How do they differ >> when context is brought into the picture? How are they the same? >> >> Readings: >> >> Butterworth, B. (2004). What happens when you can't count past four? >> https://www.theguardian.com/education/2004/oct/21/research.highereduca >> tion1 >> >> Gordon, P. (2004). Numerical cognition without words: Evidence from >> Amazonia. Science, 306(5695), 496-499. >> >> 29. Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct >> knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? >> Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or >> why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? What is science and how >> is it different from non-science or pseudoscience? Philosophers like >> positivist Popper tried to develop criteria of science based on what >> individual scientist does (according to the scientist?s own record). >> Latour, who had training in anthropology studying African indigenous >> religions, approach to study of science differently -- like an >> anthropologist. He decided to study not what scientists say about what >> they do, but actual practice of science making (science-in-action). He >> then compared his findings with scientists' claims and got two face >> Janus... >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Popper, K. (1998). Science: Conjectures and refutations. In M. Curd & J. >> A. Cover (Eds.), Philosophy of science: The central issues (1st ed., pp. >> 3-9). New York: W.W. Norton. >> >> Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and >> engineers through society (intro and ch.1, pp. 1-62). Cambridge, MA: >> Harvard University Press. >> >> 30. Science in school >> What is the purpose of science education? What is science teaching about? >> Is it about providing hands-on activities where students will discover >> scientific facts for themselves? Or should science classroom promote >> scientific thinking in every students as a set of individual skills? Or >> should science classes reproduce scientific communities? Or should science >> create "semantic networks" of talking science? Or should it involve >> students' identity? Why do school alumni know little science? Some do >> students become scientists but many do not? Why are fewer women or >> minority scientists there? >> >> Readings: >> >> Lemke, J. L. (1990). Talking science: Language, learning, and values >> (ch.1, pp. 1-24). Norwood, NJ: Ablex Pub. Corp. >> >> Matusov, E. (2016, submitted). What kills science in school?: Lessons from >> pre-service teachers? responses to urban children?s science inquiries, >> 1-25. >> >> Brickhouse, N. W., Lowery, P., & Schultz, K. (2000). What kind of a girl >> does science? The construction of school science identities. Journal of >> Research in Science Teaching, 37(5), 441-458. >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------- >> >> Eugene Matusov, PhD >> >> Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal >> >> Professor of Education >> >> School of Education >> >> 16 W Main st >> >> University of Delaware >> >> Newark, DE 19716, USA >> >> >> >> Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm >> >> DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu >> >> DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ >> >> ---------------------------- >> >> >> From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 13 19:32:45 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 20:32:45 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: Sociocultural Theories in Education In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <619AB7F4-5D50-4CD1-9CDE-E8222CE87195@gmail.com> You betcha! Enjoy the seminar! > On Aug 13, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Eugene Matusov wrote: > > Thanks A LOT, Henry! I added this book to the list. Very good addition! > > Eugene > > -----Original Message----- > From: HENRY SHONERD [mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 6:00 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Cc: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] From Eugene Matusov -- FW: EDUC855 Curricular Map: > Sociocultural Theories in Education > > Eugene, > Wow! > I feel silly adding anything to your list, but I just thought that you could > add one more thing to your readings for Topic 27 (Ways of talking, writing, > and reading) and that would be Shirley Brice Heath?s Ways of Knowing, a rich > ethnographic approach to the uses of literacy in three communities. > Henry > > >> On Aug 12, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane >> wrote: >> >> Dear XMCAers? >> >> >> >> Thanks A LOT to many of you who sent your syllabi and suggestions in >> response to Ana?s request for the ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? >> course. I do not have the access to XMCA so I asked Ana to ask you. >> >> >> >> I have created a draft of the Curricular Map for my doctoral fall seminar, >> EDUC855 ?Sociocultural Theories in Education? ? 30 topics (please, see >> below). My EDUC855 grad students will have a chance to choose topics that >> they want to study from the Curricular Map and to add new topics of their >> interest that may be relevant to the class. For each topic, I created it?s >> label, descriptive teaser and readings. The order if the topics is not >> important because my students will select a topic they will want to study >> for a next class. In developing the topics, I focus on sociocultural >> theories, approaches, applications, and debates. Please do not be >> concerned about, at times, huge amount of readings for some topics as my >> students will choose how much they will want to read for each selected >> topic. Actually, I have completely eliminated homework in my classes and >> limited in-class reading to 20-30 min. This promotes students >> self-assignment when they want to study on their own a topic of their own >> interest (sometimes beyond the semester). >> >> >> >> Can you look through my topics to see if I missed something important in >> terms of sociocultural educational theories, approaches, applications, >> debates, and readings, please? I?d appreciate your suggestions, including >> changing titles of topics of their descriptive teasers. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Eugene >> >> >> >> PS (by Ana): Please send your responses to Eugene at >> ematusov@udel.edu >> >> >> >> Curricular map for EDUC855.16F: Sociocultural Theories of Education >> >> >> >> 1. Orientation to the class curriculum. Psychological sociocultural >> approaches (James Wertsch) Introduction to the course. Why are you taking >> this class? What do you want to learn? What is ?sociocultural? >> theory/approach to education? What theory/approach is not ?sociocultural?? >> Diverse answers to these questions. >> >> Diverse sociocultural approaches: Curricular Map for our class. >> Approaches, dialogic oppositions and applications. >> >> Sociological view of our class: who you are and who am I? Am I a >> ?student,? or a ?learner,? or both, or neither? How do you want to be >> treated in the class: as a ?student? or as a ?learner? or both? What does >> it mean in practical terms? Our roles in the class mediated by syllabus. >> Diverse type of syllabus: Closed Syllabi, Opening Syllabi, Open Syllabi. >> What should type of syllabus be in our class? Curriculum as content (stuff >> to study) vs. vista (diverse perspectives on the societal practices and >> institutions of education). Giving table of context of textbooks and >> conventional syllabus curricula. Virtual people in the practice. What type >> of learning activities do we want in our class? Class web (do we need it). >> What is our next topic? >> >> Readings: >> >> Wertsch, J. V. (1989). A sociocultural approach to mind: Some theoretical >> considerations. Cultural Dynamics, 2(2), 140-161. >> >> Wertsch, J. V. (1991). Voices of the mind: A sociocultural approach to >> mediated action. Cambridge, MA: Cambridge Press. >> >> 2. Lev Vygotsky's sociohistorical theory How do development and >> learning relate? Individual and social: cultural, communal, and >> practice-based... Are we losing agency? One of the major contribution of >> Vygotsky in developmental psychology and education is that he showed that >> individual development is NOT rooted in individual -- not even in his/her >> interaction with the environment, -- but rather in a culture. The key >> concept for this idea is the "zone of proximal development" (ZPD) created, >> according to Vygotsky, in a joint activity with more knowledgeable others >> (peers or adults). Matusov argues that although Vygotsky demonstrated that >> development is a social and cultural process, he still assumed that the >> result of the development is individual property of doing everything well >> by him/herself. According to Matusov, Vygotsky was culturally biased >> assuming that mastery of solo activity is developmentally more advanced >> than joint activity with others. Lave resolves the described dichotomy of >> individual and social by considering an individual as a member of a >> "community of practice." Do you think that these scholars has gone too far >> in their emphasis on the social, cultural, and communal nature of human >> development that they have "forgotten" about individual human agency? What >> do you think? >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Vygotsky, L. S. (1978). Mind in society: The development of higher >> psychological processes (ch. 6, 79-91). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University >> Press. >> >> Matusov, E. (1998). When solo activity is not privileged: Participation >> and internalization models of development. Human Development, 41(5-6), >> 326-349. >> >> Lave, J. (1992, April). Learning as participation in communities of >> practice (1-6). Paper presented at the meeting of the American Educational >> Research Association, San Francisco, CA. >> >> 3. Mediation (Wolfgang K?hler): 6) Cognition as mediation: Cognition >> in a cage vs. cognition in the wild What is cognition? What is stupidity? >> What defines thinking? Smart affordances vs. mediation. Is cognition in a >> cage different or similar to cognition in the wild? >> >> Readings: >> >> K?hler, W. (1927). The mentality of apes (intro, ch1, pp. 1-24). London: >> Routledge and Kegan Paul. >> >> Waal, F. B. M. d. (1989). Chimpanzee politics: Power and sex among apes >> (pp. 86-139). Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press. >> >> 4. Cognition: Universal vs Particular >> Cultural diversity and universality in cognition: Do "primitives" have >> abstract reasoning? These three sequential chapters (please read them in >> this order) present one story about how Western culture views traditional >> cultures. Luria's chapter presents a "deficit model" of portraying others >> by focusing on deficits in thinking of others. Scribner, who replicated >> Luria's research and got the same results reinterpreted the findings. She >> not only found evidence of abstract formal thinking in traditional >> people's reasoning but she also found a "strange property" of such Western >> practice as syllogisms. Scribner raised a question of why these practices >> developed in the history of Western civilizations and what it has to do >> with schooling. Finally, Latour seems to take the matter further by >> challenging the idea of illogical and irrational thinking and behavior >> arguing that "irrationality" can be evidence of cultural "egocentrism" (in >> Piagetian terms) of the Western observer who is ignorant of his or her own >> cultural, institutional, and historical contexts in which thinking and >> behavior are situated. It appears that in the x-cultural studies like >> Luria's one we learn more about observers and researchers than about >> observed. Which returns back to Scribner's quest about schooling and >> asking questions that do not make practical sense (e.g., syllogisms). >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Luria, A. R. (1976). Cognitive development, its cultural and social >> foundations (ch. 1, 3-19; ch. 5, 117-134). Cambridge, MA: Harvard >> University Press. >> >> Scribner, S. (1977). Modes of thinking and ways of speaking: Culture and >> logic reconsidered. In P. N. Johnson-Laird & P. C. Wason (Eds.), Thinking >> (pp. 483-500). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and >> engineers through society (ch. 5, pp. 179-213). Cambridge, MA: Harvard >> University Press. >> >> 5. Western schooling and non-Western informal learning How guidance in >> informal learning is different/similar to guidance in school? About a >> decade ago, a friend and colleague of mine returned from Togo, a West >> African country on the Gulf of Guinea, where he taught mathematics for >> nine months in a local university. He told me that the native people of >> Togo do not care about their kids and do not teach them anything. The kids >> grow like wild grass under the sky and are left to their own devices. My >> friend gave me a long list of what Togo adults and children do that does >> not, from his point of view, constitute guidance. Knowing (in an abstract >> way) the complexity of human practices in any given society, I could not >> believe his conclusion about the Togo people; however, I felt also that he >> was probably faced there with some very interesting and real phenomenon. >> >> Dutch researcher Mari?tte de Haan?s book about how Mexican Mazahua Indian >> children learn in their community and in school helps me to understand the >> phenomenon that my friend faced in Togo. It is not because I believe that >> how adults provide guidance and children learn in Togo and Mazahua >> communities are necessarily similar but because to a high degree the >> phenomenon centers around people from Western middle-class communities to >> which my friend and I belong. To be exact, it is about relations between >> the communities. For a long time, Western educators and psychological >> researchers have believed that ?guidance is guidance? and ?learning is >> learning? ? they are universal everywhere. Wood, Bruner, and Ross? >> pioneering research on adult guidance described important principles of >> adult engagement with children in adult-child tutoring sessions that the >> authors called ?scaffolding? (see article by Wood, Bruner and Ross). >> Rogoff (1990) presented these principles of scaffolding. It appears that >> my friend could not find these principles in the interactions between Togo >> adults and children and, thus, he concluded that there was no guidance. >> Similarly, in de Haan?s research, a non-Mazahua, Mestizo informant >> reported that Mazahua parents are ?not interested in their children? and >> do not educate? them (p. 74). >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Wood, D., Bruner, J. S., & Ross, G. (1976). The role of tutoring in >> problem solving. Journal of Child psychology and Psychiatry, 17, 89-100. >> >> de Haan, M. (1999). Learning as cultural practice: How children learn in a >> Mexican Mazahua community (ch. 5, 6). Amsterdam: Thela Thesis. >> >> 6. Activity Theory (Vasiliy Davydov, Yrj? Engestr?m) Activity Theory >> claims that human (and higher animals') subjectivity is shaped by their >> purposeful activities, by their goals. Goals make human activity >> meaningful. However, goals are undergoing through transformation in the >> activity. Activity, based on overcoming obstacles, generates the subject >> and the object mediated by tools and solutions. Activities involve >> contradictions. Learning is a by-product of a purposeful activity. To >> teach means to engage students in certain activities that are meaningful, >> i.e., purposeful, for the students. >> >> Readings: >> >> Davydov, V. V. (1998). The concept of developmental teaching. Journal of >> Russian & East European Psychology, 36(4), 11-36. >> >> Davydov, V. V., & Tsvetkovich, Z. (1991). On the objective origin of the >> concept of fractions. Focus on learning problems in Mathematics, 13(1), >> 13-64. >> >> Engestr?m, Y. (1987). Learning by expanding: An activity-theoretic >> approach to developmental research. Helsinki, Finland: Orienta-Konsultit >> Oy. >> >> Engestr?m, Y., Miettinen, R., & Punam?aki-Gitai, R.-L. (1999). >> Perspectives on activity theory. New York: Cambridge University Press. >> >> 7. Situated cognition (Jean Lave and others): Math in school and >> everyday life Math in everyday life: Does school help to do everyday math? >> School assumes to prepare students for "real life." But does it? Does >> school math help everyday math? Do people use in grocery store the same >> math that is used in schools? If school does not teach math used in other >> practices what does it teach? Why do we need schools? >> >> Readings: >> >> S?lj?, R., & Wyndhamn, J. (1993). Solving everyday problems in the formal >> setting: An empirical study of the school as context for thought. In S. >> Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice. Perspectives on >> activity and context (pp. 327-342). New York: Cambridge University Press. >> >> Lave, J. (1988). Cognition in practice: Mind, mathematics, and culture in >> everyday life (chs. 4-6, pp. 76-144). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University >> Press. >> >> Hutchins, E. (1983). Understanding Micronesian navigation. In D. Gentner & >> A. L. Stevens (Eds.), Mental models (pp. 191-225). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum >> Associates. >> >> 8. Teaching as cultural practice: Math in schools Teaching as a >> cultural practice: What does it take to be a good math teacher? What does >> it mean to teach math in context? Does it mean using everyday contexts for >> math word problems? Or using hands-on manipulatives? Or fieldtrips? Or >> engaging kinds in personal and social math-based activism? What kind of >> math should school teach and how? Is teaching governed by pedagogical >> techniques or by cultural practices? Can teaching be borrowed from another >> culture? >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Stevenson, H. W., & Stigler, J. W. (1992). The learning gap: Why our >> schools are failing and what we can learn from Japanese and Chinese >> education (ch. 9, pp. 174-199). New York: Summit Books. >> >> Lave, J. (1992). Word problems: A microcosm of theories of learning. In P. >> Light & G. Butterworth (Eds.), Context and cognition: Ways of learning and >> knowing (pp. 74-92). Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc. >> >> Mukhopadhyay, S., & Greer, B. (2001). Modeling with purpose: Mathematics >> as a critical tool. In B. Atweh, H. Forgasz & B. Nebres (Eds.), >> Sociocultural research on mathematics education: An international >> perspective (pp. 295-311). Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. >> >> 9. Community of practice (Jean Lave, Etienne Wenger) Learning is >> viewed as transformation of participation and identity in a community of >> practice as the participants become legitimate peripheral participants. >> Learning is not separate from social relationships -- a membership in a >> community of practice. A community is defined by a shared practice, in >> which the members participate. >> >> Readings: >> >> Lave, J., & Wenger, E. (1991). Situated learning: Legitimate peripheral >> participation. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> Wenger, E. (1998). Communities of practice: Learning, meaning, and >> identity. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> 10. Community of learners (Ann Brown, Joe Campione) The idea of a >> community of learners is based on the premise that learning occurs as >> people participate in shared endeavors with others, with all playing >> active but often asymmetrical roles in sociocultural activity. This >> contrasts with models of learning that are based on one-sided notions of >> learning? either that it occurs through transmission of knowledge from >> experts or acquisition of knowledge by novices, with the learner or the >> others (respectively) in a passive role. >> >> Readings >> >> Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1994). Guided discovery in a community of >> learners. In K. McGilly (Ed.), Classroom lessons: Integrating cognitive >> theory and classroom practice. (pp. 229-270). Cambridge, MA,: The MIT >> Press. >> >> Brown, A. L., & Campione, J. C. (1998). Designing a community of young >> learners: Theoretical and practical lessons. In N. M. Lambert & B. L. >> McCombs (Eds.), How students learn: Reforming schools through >> learner-centered education (pp. 153-186). Washington, DC: American >> Psychological Association. >> >> Rogoff, B., Matusov, E., & White, C. (1996). Models of teaching and >> learning: Participation in a community of learners. In D. R. Olson & N. >> Torrance (Eds.), The handbook of education and human development: New >> models of learning, teaching and schooling (pp. 388-414). Malden, MA, US: >> Blackwell Publishers Inc. >> >> Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Han, S. (2012). Community of Learners: >> Ontological and non-ontological projects. Outlines: Critical Social >> Studies, 14(1), 41-72. >> >> 11. Cultural and social reproduction (Pierre Bourdieu) In Bourdieu?s >> social reproduction thesis. Cultural capital is assumed to be one of the >> central family based endowments whose social class value impacts offspring >> intergenerational educational probabilities unequally. Inequalities in >> educational stratification and occupational achievement are reproduced via >> schools. As an analytic concept, cultural capital has generated >> considerable interest. But as a mechanism of class analysis the social >> reproduction thesis, and the role of cultural capital in it, cannot be >> confirmed empirically in large - scale representative, longitudinal data >> (or across various national settings). The role of teachers and schools, >> argued in Bourdieu?s theory to be central agents of exclusion and >> reproduction of class inequality connecting families to stratification >> outcomes cannot be confirmed in quantitative research. Cultural capital >> seen strictly as a mechanism of class reproduction as specified in >> Bourdieu?s framework, has limited analytic potential that restricts its >> application in multicultural societies. >> >> Readings: >> >> Bourdieu, P. (1977). Cultural reproduction and social reproduction (pp. >> 487-611). In Power and ideology in education, edited by J. Karabel and A. >> H. Halsey. New York, NY: Oxford University Press. >> >> Bourdieu, P., & Passeron, J. C. (1990). Reproduction in education, >> society, and culture. London: Sage. >> >> Bowles, S., & Gintis, H. (1976). Schooling in capitalist America: >> Educational reform and the contradictions of economic life. New York: >> Basic Books. >> >> 12. Cultural apprenticeship (Jean Lave, Barbara Rogoff) The cultural >> apprentice perspective is an educational theory of apprenticeship >> concerning the process of learning through cultural, social, and physical >> integration into the practices associated with the subject, such as >> workplace training. By developing similar performance to other >> practitioners, an apprentice will come to understand the tacit (informally >> taught) duties of the position. In the process of creating this awareness, >> the learner also affect their environment; as they are accepted by master >> practitioners, their specific talents and contributions within the field >> are taken into account and integrated into the overall practice. >> >> The Apprenticeship Perspective can be used to teach procedures to >> students. For example, tying a shoe, building a fire, and taking blood can >> all use the Apprenticeship Perspective to teach students these skills. >> However, it can be used to develop master practitioners in fields that >> involve increased complexity, numerous webs of interaction, or shifting >> environments demanding constant attention. Driver education, flight >> training and sports training all use the Apprenticeship Perspective for >> learners to learn a specific skill. >> >> Readings >> >> Rogoff, B. (1990). Apprenticeship in thinking: Cognitive development in >> social context. New York: Oxford University Press. >> >> Lave, J. (2011). Apprenticeship in critical ethnographic practice. >> Chicago: University of Chicago Press. >> >> 13. Funds of knowledge and culturally responsive pedagogy (Luis Moll, >> Gloria Landson-Billings) Funds of knowledge is defined by researchers Luis >> Moll, Cathy Amanti, Deborah Neff, and Norma Gonzalez (2001) ?to refer to >> the historically accumulated and culturally developed bodies of knowledge >> and skills essential for household or individual functioning and >> well-being? (p. 133). When teachers shed their role of teacher and expert >> and, instead, take on a new role as learner, they can come to know their >> students and the families of their students in new and distinct ways. With >> this new knowledge, they can begin to see that the households of their >> students contain rich cultural and cognitive resources and that these >> resources can and should be used in their classroom in order to provide >> culturally responsive and meaningful lessons that tap students? prior >> knowledge. Information that teachers learn about their students in this >> process is considered the student?s funds of knowledge. >> >> Culturally relevant or responsive teaching is a pedagogy grounded in >> teachers' displaying cultural competence: skill at teaching in a >> cross-cultural or multicultural setting. They enable each student to >> relate course content to his or her cultural context. While the term >> culturally relevant teaching often deals specifically with instruction >> of African American students in the United States. It has been proven >> to be an effective form of pedagogy for students of all racial and >> ethnic backgrounds. For instance, in Canada, research reflects the >> need to bridge the gap between traditional Aboriginal education and >> Western education systems by including spirituality in Aboriginal >> educational practices. By making education culturally relevant, it is >> thought to improve academic achievement. Although the majority of this >> practice is undertaken in a primary or secondary school setting, >> >> Readings: >> >> Moll, L. C., Amanti, C., Neff, D., & Gonz?lez, N. (1992). Funds of >> knowledge for teaching: Using a qualitative approach to connect homes and >> classrooms. Theory into Practice, 31(2), 132-141. >> >> Ladson-Billings, G. (1995). Toward a theory of culturally relevant >> pedagogy. American Educational Research Journal, 32(3), 465-491. >> >> 14. Ecological historical approach to minority school failure (John >> Ogbu) Why do so many minority students fail in school? Debate on >> home-school mismatch and involuntary minorities. Different scholars >> explain differently of minority students disproportionably fail in school. >> Vogt, Jordan and Tharp refer to the home-school cultural mismatch as the >> main source of failure. While Ogbu argues that history of the minority is >> more important than a cultural mismatch. To solve the problem, Delpit >> suggests teaching minority students "the master's tools" and culture in an >> explicit way. However, Gee argues that it is impossible to destroy "the >> master's house using the master's tools" -- the critical review of >> institutional power in schools is due. >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Ogbu, J. U. (1990). Literacy and schooling in subordinate cultures: The >> case of Black Americans. In K. Lomotey (Ed.), Going to school: The >> African-American experience (pp. 113-131). Albany, NY, US: State >> University of New York Press. >> >> Vogt, L. A., Jordan, C., & Tharp, R. G. (1987). Explaining school failure, >> producing school success: Two cases. Anthropology & Education Quarterly, >> 18(4), 276-286. >> >> Delpit, L. D. (1995). Other people's children: Cultural conflict in the >> classroom (pp. 152-166). New York: New Press: Distributed by W.W. Norton. >> >> Gee, J. P. (1996). Social linguistics and literacies: Ideology in >> discourses (ch.1, viii-21). London: Taylor & Francis. >> >> 15. Culture as disability (Ray McDermott): School success and school >> failure Design of academic success and failure in school: Where is >> academic success and failure located? Learning and teaching >> disabilities... Why do some children fail in school while others succeed? >> Traditionally to answer these questions, educators, scholars and general >> public refer to individual properties of the students: natural intellect, >> motivation, learning disabilities, giftedness, attitude, and so on. The >> following readings represent another approach although. These scholars >> argue that academic success and failure design by schools. Yes, schools >> despite their all claims to commitment to "educate all children" (cf. >> Labaree's first goal of schools of "democratic participation"), schools >> are busy designing school successes of whom are below average. As Labaree >> argues, success for all would inflate school credentials and thus would >> undermine the social mobility goal of school. However, how success and >> failure are designed in classrooms? How the dynamics set that produce >> school failure and school success on a systematic basis? >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> McDermott, R. P. (1993). The acquisition of a child by a learning >> disability. In S. Chaiklin & J. Lave (Eds.), Understanding practice: >> Perspectives on activity and context (pp. 269-305). New York: Cambridge >> University Press. >> >> Varenne, H., & McDermott, R. P. (1998). Successful failure: The school >> America builds (Ch. 5, pp 106-128). Boulder, CO: Westview Press. >> >> Matusov, E., DePalma, R., & Drye, S. (2007). Whose development? Salvaging >> the concept of development within a sociocultural approach to education. >> Educational Theory, 57(4), 403-421. >> >> 16. Feminism (Carol Gilligan) >> Many feminists believe that women are being suppressed by a male-dominated >> society both in education and also in later life. They argue that the >> curriculum is more based around traditionally male-dominated subjects. >> Thus it sets up men more than women for further education or more >> prosperous work opportunities. Coupled with this is the stereotypical view >> of a woman?s part in society ? of becoming housewives, marrying early and >> having children. Feminists argue that this contributes to the suppression >> put on women by the male-run society. >> >> Sociologists Heaton and Lawson (1996, p. 76) argue that the ?hidden? >> curriculum is a major source of gender socialisation within schools. They >> believe that schools seemed to show or have: text books with modern family >> culture and where children are taught from an early age that males are >> dominant within the family; various subjects are aimed at a certain gender >> group, for example Food Technology would be aimed at females, leading on >> to the typical role of females doing housework and cooking; sports in >> schools are very much male and female dominated within the education >> system, with boys playing rugby and cricket while girls play netball and >> rounders. It could be seen that the majority of teachers are female, but >> that the senior management positions are mainly male-dominated, although >> this is not the case in some schools. >> >> Readings: >> >> Gilligan, C. (1993). In a different voice: Psychological theory and >> women's development. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. >> >> Purvis, J. (1994). Feminist theory in education. British Journal of >> Sociology of Education, 15(1), 137-140. >> >> 17. Critical race theory in education (Gloria Ladson-Billings) >> Critical race theory (CRT) is an analytical framework that stems from the >> field of critical legal studies that addresses the racial inequities in >> society. Critical race theory (CRT) recognizes that racism is endemic to >> American life, expresses skepticism toward dominant legal claims of >> neutrality, objectivity, colorblindness, and meritocracy challenges >> ahistoricism and insists on a contextual/historical analysis off the law >> (and education) presumes that racism has contributed to all contemporary >> manifestations off group advantage and disadvantage. Scholars of education >> have used CRT as a framework to further analyze and critique educational >> research and practice. >> >> Reading: >> >> Ladson-Billings, G., & Tate, W. F. (1995). Toward a critical race theory >> of education. Teachers college record, 97(1), 47-68. >> >> Dixson, A. D., & Rousseau, C. K. (2006). Critical race theory in >> education: All God's children got a song. New York: Routledge. >> >> Parker, L., Deyhle, D., & Villenas, S. A. (1999). Race is-- race isn't: >> Critical race theory and qualitative studies in education. Boulder, CO: >> Westview Press. >> >> Lynn, M., & Dixson, A. D. (2013). Handbook of critical race theory in >> education. New York: Routledge. >> >> 18. Ecological approaches (Urie Bronfenbrenner, James Gibson): >> Contextualism and affordances in psychology education What is context? Is >> it a factor that can be considered separately in addition to a main, >> universal function (e.g., cognition, learning) or is it an inseparable >> part of the any phenomenon? Is context objective, existing outside of a >> psychological phenomenon, or is it subjective and a part of a >> psychological phenomenon? What kinds of contexts exist? Why context is >> important for learning? Purposeful activity vs affordances: all "action >> possibilities" latent in the environment, independent of an individual's >> ability to recognize them, but always in relation to agents (people or >> animals) and therefore dependent on their capabilities. For instance, a >> set of steps which rises four feet high does not afford the act of >> climbing if the actor is a crawling infant. Gibson's is the prevalent >> definition in cognitive psychology. >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Bronfenbrenner, U. (1995). Bioecological model from a life course >> perspective: Reflections of a participant observer. In Moen, P., Elder >> Jr., G. H., and Luscher, K. (Eds), Examining lives in context: >> Perspectives on the ecology of human development (pp. 599-647). Washington >> DC: APA. >> >> Cole, M. (1995). The supra-individual envelope of development: Activity >> and practice, situation and context. In J. J. Goodnow, P. J. Miller & et >> al. (Eds.), Cultural practices as contexts for development (pp. 105-118). >> San Francisco, CA, US: Jossey-Bass Inc, Publishers. >> >> Gibson, J. J. (1979). The ecological approach to visual perception. >> Boston: Houghton Mifflin. >> >> Gibson, E. J. (2002). Perceiving the affordances: A portrait of two >> psychologists. Mahwah, NJ: L. Erlbaum Associates. >> >> 19. Connectionism and actor-networks theory (George Siemens, Bruno >> Latour) Which skills and practices are relevant to an even changing world, >> and how are those skills addressed in current educational practices? >> Technology-mediated personal learning networks: How does "connectivism" >> (as defined by George Siemens) impact our view of what knowledge or >> expertise are? Including technology and connection making as learning >> activities begins to move learning theories into a digital age. We can no >> longer personally experience and acquire learning that we need to act. We >> derive our competence from forming connections. Chaos is a new reality for >> knowledge workers. Unlike constructivism, which states that learners >> attempt to foster understanding by meaning making tasks, chaos states that >> the meaning exists ? the learner's challenge is to recognize the patterns >> which appear to be hidden. Meaning-making and forming connections between >> specialized communities are important activities. Chaos, as a science, >> recognizes the connection of everything to everything. >> >> Connectivism is the integration of principles explored by chaos, network, >> and complexity and self-organization theories. Learning is a process that >> occurs within nebulous environments of shifting core elements ? not >> entirely under the control of the individual. Learning (defined as >> actionable knowledge) can reside outside of ourselves (within an >> organization or a database), is focused on connecting specialized >> information sets, and the connections that enable us to learn more are >> more important than our current state of knowing. >> >> Readings: >> >> Siemens, G. (2005). Connectivism: A learning theory for the digital >> age. International Journal of Instructional Technology and Distance >> Learning, 2(1), 1-8. Retrieved >> fromhttp://itdl.org/Journal/Jan_05/article01.htm >> >> Latour, B. (1996). On actor-network theory: A few clarifications plus >> more than a few complications. Retrieved from >> http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/P-67%20ACTOR-NETWORK.pd >> f >> >> Latour, B. (1996). Aramis, or, The love of technology. Cambridge, MA: >> Harvard University Press. >> >> 20. Dialogism (Mikhail Bakhtin, Paulo Freire, Socrates) Russian >> philosopher of dialogism Mikhail Bakhtin argued that meaning making >> process is dialogic in its nature and occurs in the relationship between >> genuine question and seriously answer. Can education be dialogic in this >> sense, when the teacher knows "more" and students know "less"? Ironically, >> Bakhtin used examples of conventional educational practices to illustrate >> his notion of "excessive monologism." Should education focus on critical >> meaning making or on students' arriving at the curricular endpoints, >> preset by the teacher in advance (e.g., educational standards, common >> core)? If dialogic pedagogy possible, what is its goal and what can be the >> teacher's role in it, as a genuine dialogic partner? >> >> Readings: >> >> Plato, & Bluck, R. S. (1961). Meno. Cambridge, UK: University Press. >> >> Freire, P. (1986). Pedagogy of the oppressed. New York: Continuum. >> >> Matusov, E. (2009). Journey into dialogic pedagogy. Hauppauge, NY: Nova >> Science Publishers. >> >> Sidorkin, A. M. (1999). Beyond discourse: Education, the self, and >> dialogue. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. >> >> Wegerif, R. (2007). Dialogic, educational and technology: Expanding the >> space of learning. New York: Springer-Verlag. >> >> 21. Authorial Agency (Eugene Matusov) >> Authorial agency focuses on the production of culture, which is the >> individual?s unique culture making activity on larger, more recognizable, >> and smaller, less recognizable, scales. Authorial agency is defined >> through socially recognized personal transcendence of the given ? a person?s >> transcendence of the given recognized positively and/or negatively by >> others and by the self, ?the subject desires recognition from another and >> is constituted through this recognition? The gaps embedded in repetition >> are, for Butler, the location of agency? (Clare, 2009, p. 51). Authorial >> agency is not freedom from the natural causes, necessities, ready-made >> culture, social dynamics, nature, and iron logic but rather it uses these >> as the material of transcendence. In the process of socially recognized >> transcendence of the given culture and practice, new goals, new >> definitions of quality, new motivations, new wills, new commitments, new >> skills, new knowledge, new relationships will emerge. >> >> In conventional technological education, students are expected to postpone >> exercising their authorial agency until they become fully equipped with >> the powerful cultural toolkit of essential knowledge, skills, attitudes, >> and dispositions ? i.e., after the education is fully completed. Student?s >> agency is usually neglected if not actively suppressed by the teachers as >> distraction from the preset curricula. Thus, learning is often alienated >> from the students? authorial agency. Occasionally, teachers may try to >> exploit students?authorial agency for engaging them into the prescribed >> curriculum but the teachers often worry that things may get out of control >> and the students may hijack the lesson (Kennedy, 2005). The technological >> approach to education sees its goal as the reproduction of the ready-made >> culture and in preparing students? future active participation in the >> ready-made culture. >> >> Readings: >> >> Matusov, E. (2011). Authorial teaching and learning. In E. J. White & M. >> Peters (Eds.), Bakhtinian pedagogy: Opportunities and challenges for >> research, policy and practice in education across the globe (pp. 21-46). >> New York: Peter Lang Publishers. >> >> Matusov, E., von Duyke, K., & Kayumova, S. (2016). Mapping concepts of >> agency in educational contexts. Integrative Psychological and >> Behavioral Science, 50(3), 420?446. doi: 10.1007/s12124-015-9334-2 >> >> 22. Cultural creolization (Eugene Matusov) What is a cultural mismatch >> between the teacher's and students' cultural expectations and behavior? >> Have you experienced ones? What can educational problems result from a >> cultural mismatch? Is it possible to prevent cultural mismatches or not >> and why? How can a teacher recognize a cultural mismatch (and not >> intentional violation of cultural norms and expectations)? Facing a >> cultural mismatch, what should the teacher do: a) make the student learn >> and use only the cultural pattern of expectation and behavior dominant in >> the mainstream culture that the teacher belongs to, b) learn the student's >> cultural pattern of expectations and behavior for providing better >> guidance and comfort to the student, or c) something else (what is it and >> why)? What would you do, as a teacher, when face a cultural mismatch? >> >> Cultural creolization is based on a sociocultural family of approaches >> which treats the differences of the participants in multicultural settings >> as resources in the construction of new, precisely multi-cultural. or >> creole, learning communities rather than on fixing individuals' deficits. >> In this model, an appropriate pedagogical regime is conceived of as >> building a new, creole educational community that draws on the cultures >> and histories of children, teachers, instructors, and community leaders. >> >> Readings: >> >> Matusov, E., St. Julien, J., & Hayes, R. (2005). Building a creole >> educational community as the goal of multicultural education for >> preservice teachers. In L. V. Barnes (Ed.), Contemporary teaching and >> teacher issues (pp. 1-38). Hauppauge, NY: Nova Publishers. >> >> Matusov, E., Smith, M. P., Candela, M. A., & Lilu, K. (2007). ?Culture has >> no internal territory?: Culture as dialogue. In J. Valsiner & A. Rosa >> (Eds.), The Cambridge Handbook of Socio-Cultural Psychology (pp. 460-483). >> Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. >> >> 23. Sociocultural psychological approaches as a response to the >> Information-Processing psychological framework Arguably, a Sociocultural >> approach has emerged in part in a response to the Cognitive Revolution >> started in the 1950s and its Information-Processing approach (IP). The >> Information-Processing approach considers mind to be processing >> information, like some kind of a super-powerful computer, affected by >> diverse contextual factors. In contrast, a Sociocultural approach argues >> that mind is shaped by diverse contexts (e.g., societial, physical, >> cultural, institutional, dialogic, activity) and does not exist outside of >> these contexts. Below is an informative debate between >> information-processing and sociocultural paradigms, arguing "wrong >> questions." >> >> Readings >> >> Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1996). Situated learning >> and education. Educational Researcher, 25(4), 5-11. >> >> Greeno, J. G. (1997). On claims that answer the wrong questions. >> Educational Researcher, 26(1), 5-17. >> >> Anderson, J. R., Reder, L. M., & Simon, H. A. (1997). Situated versus >> cognitive perspective: Form versus substance. Educational Researcher, >> 26(1), 18-21. >> >> >> >> 24. Learning and motivation in institutional contexts Why are so many >> students who are not intrinsically motivated to learn in school? How and >> why do the school and society create non-motivated students? What shapes >> learning and motivation? Based on Labaree?s analysis, do you agree that >> that many low-income students are not motivated in school learning >> differently than unmotivated middle-class students, why, how? Can we >> change the situation with non-motivated students and if so, how? >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: >> The credentials race in American education (ch. 10, pp 250-262). New >> Haven, CT: Yale University Press. >> >> Labaree, D. F. (1997). How to succeed in school without really learning: >> The credentials race in American education (ch. 1, pp 15-52). New Haven, >> CT: Yale University Press. >> >> >> >> 25. Transfer and context >> Does transfer of learning exist? If not "transfer" then what? Situated and >> information processing theories of cognition and learning. Where is >> learning located: in individuals' heads or in their activities? Is the >> purpose of schools to teach students decontextualized basic skills and how >> the students can apply these skills for different specific situations? >> Traditional schools are somewhat successful in teaching many (but not all) >> students how to pass school exams and tests on basic skills. The main >> educational paradox is that passing these tests does not guarantee that >> the students can successfully apply them for diverse specific situations. >> Many students could not recognize the situations requiring the basic >> skills learned in school or they apply wrong skills that are not >> appropriate for the given situation. Moreover, some people, who cannot >> pass the school basic skill tests, can very successful operate in specific >> situations. The described difficulties experienced by students of >> traditional schooling are called "transfer problem." >> >> Readings: >> >> Bransford, J. D., & Schwartz, D. L. (2001). Rethinking transfer: A simple >> proposal with multiple implications. Review of Research in Education, >> 24(3), 61-100. >> >> Beach, K. D. (1999). Consequential transitions: A sociocultural expedition >> beyond transfer in education. Review of Research in Education, 24(3), >> 101-139. >> >> Tuomi-Gr?hn, T., & Engestr?m, Y. (2003). Conceptualizing transfer: From >> standard notions to developmental perspectives. In T. Tuomi-Gr?hn & Y. >> Engestr?m (Eds.), Between school and work: New perspectives on transfer >> and boundary-crossing (1st ed., pp. 19-38). Amsterdam: Pergamon. >> >> Packer, M. (2001). The problem of transfer, and the sociocultural critique >> of schooling. Journal of the Learning Sciences, 10(4), 493-514. >> >> >> >> 26. Literacy, culture, and cognition >> Does literacy changes human cognition? Do literate people think >> differently, more powerfully than illiterate? Ong says, "yes." Scribner, >> Cole, and Matusov say human cognition is shaped by practices and social >> relations in which literacy is embedded. Are you with Ong or Scribner, >> Cole and Matusov? Why? >> >> Readings: >> >> Ong, W. J. (1982). Orality and literacy: The technologizing of the word >> (ch. 2, pp. 28-43). New York: Methuen. >> >> Scribner, S., & Cole, M. (1988). Unpackaging literacy. In E. R. Kintgen, >> B. M. Kroll & M. Rose (Eds.), Perspectives on literacy (pp. 57-70). >> Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois University Press. >> >> Matusov, E., & St. Julien, J. (2004). Print literacy as oppression: Cases >> of bureaucratic, colonial, totalitarian literacies and their implications >> for schooling. TEXT: International Journal, 24(2), 197-244. >> >> 27. Ways of talking, writing, and reading Doesn?t non-Standard English >> reflect deficiency in one's talking and thinking or non-Standard English >> is full-developed language among other languages? Why do people, who form >> different cultural communities, organize their language differently? >> Whether and if so how can the teacher support diverse ways of talking in >> the classroom? Should the teacher do so? What do you think? >> >> Readings: >> >> Bereiter, C., & Engelmann, S. (1970). Language learning activities for the >> disadvantaged child (pp.5-9). New York: Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai >> Brith. >> >> Labov, W. (1974). Academic ignorance and Black intelligence. In R. J. >> Mueller, D. Ary & C. McCormick (Eds.), Readings in classroom learning and >> perception (pp. 328-345). New York: Praeger. >> >> Kaplan, R. B. (1966). Cultural thought patterns in inter-cultural >> education. Language Learning, 16(1-2), 1-21. >> >> 28. What happens when you can't count past four? Contexts in Cognition >> (developmental cognition) Do contexts always necessarily affect cognition >> at its most basic level? For instance, it would be interesting to read >> about the Amazonia tribes?the Munduruku and the Piraha. These are two >> examples where their contexts are very different from ours and yet-- they >> have numerical systems similar to ours. Why is that? How do they differ >> when context is brought into the picture? How are they the same? >> >> Readings: >> >> Butterworth, B. (2004). What happens when you can't count past four? >> https://www.theguardian.com/education/2004/oct/21/research.highereduca >> tion1 >> >> Gordon, P. (2004). Numerical cognition without words: Evidence from >> Amazonia. Science, 306(5695), 496-499. >> >> 29. Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct >> knowledge? Or why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? >> Science in action: Do scientists discover truth or construct knowledge? Or >> why is it so difficult to read scientific texts? What is science and how >> is it different from non-science or pseudoscience? Philosophers like >> positivist Popper tried to develop criteria of science based on what >> individual scientist does (according to the scientist?s own record). >> Latour, who had training in anthropology studying African indigenous >> religions, approach to study of science differently -- like an >> anthropologist. He decided to study not what scientists say about what >> they do, but actual practice of science making (science-in-action). He >> then compared his findings with scientists' claims and got two face >> Janus... >> >> >> >> Readings: >> >> Popper, K. (1998). Science: Conjectures and refutations. In M. Curd & J. >> A. Cover (Eds.), Philosophy of science: The central issues (1st ed., pp. >> 3-9). New York: W.W. Norton. >> >> Latour, B. (1987). Science in action: How to follow scientists and >> engineers through society (intro and ch.1, pp. 1-62). Cambridge, MA: >> Harvard University Press. >> >> 30. Science in school >> What is the purpose of science education? What is science teaching about? >> Is it about providing hands-on activities where students will discover >> scientific facts for themselves? Or should science classroom promote >> scientific thinking in every students as a set of individual skills? Or >> should science classes reproduce scientific communities? Or should science >> create "semantic networks" of talking science? Or should it involve >> students' identity? Why do school alumni know little science? Some do >> students become scientists but many do not? Why are fewer women or >> minority scientists there? >> >> Readings: >> >> Lemke, J. L. (1990). Talking science: Language, learning, and values >> (ch.1, pp. 1-24). Norwood, NJ: Ablex Pub. Corp. >> >> Matusov, E. (2016, submitted). What kills science in school?: Lessons from >> pre-service teachers? responses to urban children?s science inquiries, >> 1-25. >> >> Brickhouse, N. W., Lowery, P., & Schultz, K. (2000). What kind of a girl >> does science? The construction of school science identities. Journal of >> Research in Science Teaching, 37(5), 441-458. >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------- >> >> Eugene Matusov, PhD >> >> Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal >> >> Professor of Education >> >> School of Education >> >> 16 W Main st >> >> University of Delaware >> >> Newark, DE 19716, USA >> >> >> >> Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm >> >> DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu >> >> DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ >> >> ---------------------------- >> >> >> From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Aug 14 16:22:27 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:22:27 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov In-Reply-To: <16706e18-7978-c162-a9c3-362e4292aa85@mira.net> References: <16706e18-7978-c162-a9c3-362e4292aa85@mira.net> Message-ID: Dear XMCA Colleagues, I am writing my PhD thesis now about perezhivanie in analog role-playing games. Based on the speeches of Professor Veresov, and in order to make things less confusing for the thesis committee here in Japan (they do not know much about CHAT), I am thinking in using "developmental emotional experiences" for perezhivanie as phenomena and perezhivanie for perezhivanie as a concept. What are your opinions on this? All the best for you. Wagner Luiz Schmit University of Tsukuba On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Here are links to Nickolai Veresov's keynote speech on Perezhivanie on > Symposium at ISCAR in Sydney. > > Perezhivanie in Cultural-Historical Theory: The Concept and is content. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMpYarIRzs > > or at > > https://vimeo.com/164861983 > > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Sun Aug 14 16:51:53 2016 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 23:51:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov In-Reply-To: References: <16706e18-7978-c162-a9c3-362e4292aa85@mira.net>, Message-ID: <1471218716470.76652@iped.uio.no> Dear Wagner, would not using two different names, one of which is your own designation rather than the result of consensus, be even more confusing? Indeed, "developmental emotional experiences" may be a particularly problematic term since, if you follow Vygotsky, perezhivanie is a unit of development, and always involves not only emotional but also intellectual aspects. Why not "developmental emotional and intellectual experiences" then? But that would be problematic as well, because it would be like supposing that there is anything worth the name experience that would not already involve both the intellect and the affects (vegetative experience? unconscious experience?), or would not change you in the least of the ways. Of course, all three terms, developmental, emotional, and experience, may be useful for discussing perezhivanie; but I doubt it is a good idea to use a composite of them to substitute it, specially when perezhivanie was conceived as a unit that denotes unity, and not a composite of different elements/aspects. So, why not stick to one word, and then elaborate on its different aspects or dimensions in a way that anyone could understand it, even those with no CHAT background? I think that, irrespective of the committee's background, your thesis should be intelligible for any scholar in the social/cognitive sciences. I believe that it is in that exercise that you might actually to develop a more sophisticated grasp of the notion. If you rely on what the committee already knows about CHAT, you are more likely to leave some assumptions under-stated, and then perhaps, non-articulated to them or to yourself. By having to make your argument visible to any one, you will have to deal with the assumptions that you are working with, and will not hide anything to the committee or to yourself. Those my two cents; others? Also, there is a special issue on perezhivanie coming up soon at MCA that should be quite helpful for dealing with these issues. Cheers, Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: 15 August 2016 01:22 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov Dear XMCA Colleagues, I am writing my PhD thesis now about perezhivanie in analog role-playing games. Based on the speeches of Professor Veresov, and in order to make things less confusing for the thesis committee here in Japan (they do not know much about CHAT), I am thinking in using "developmental emotional experiences" for perezhivanie as phenomena and perezhivanie for perezhivanie as a concept. What are your opinions on this? All the best for you. Wagner Luiz Schmit University of Tsukuba On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Here are links to Nickolai Veresov's keynote speech on Perezhivanie on > Symposium at ISCAR in Sydney. > > Perezhivanie in Cultural-Historical Theory: The Concept and is content. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMpYarIRzs > > or at > > https://vimeo.com/164861983 > > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Aug 14 16:57:21 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:57:21 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov In-Reply-To: <1471218716470.76652@iped.uio.no> References: <16706e18-7978-c162-a9c3-362e4292aa85@mira.net> <1471218716470.76652@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Thank you Alfredo, What you suggest is what I have done in my paper for Culture and Psychology, and you make some good points. Thank you very much. Wagner On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote: > Dear Wagner, > > would not using two different names, one of which is your own designation > rather than the result of consensus, be even more confusing? Indeed, > "developmental emotional experiences" may be a particularly problematic > term since, if you follow Vygotsky, perezhivanie is a unit of development, > and always involves not only emotional but also intellectual aspects. Why > not "developmental emotional and intellectual experiences" then? But that > would be problematic as well, because it would be like supposing that there > is anything worth the name experience that would not already involve both > the intellect and the affects (vegetative experience? unconscious > experience?), or would not change you in the least of the ways. Of course, > all three terms, developmental, emotional, and experience, may be useful > for discussing perezhivanie; but I doubt it is a good idea to use a > composite of them to substitute it, specially when perezhivanie was > conceived as a unit that denotes unity, and not a composite of different > elements/aspects. > > So, why not stick to one word, and then elaborate on its different aspects > or dimensions in a way that anyone could understand it, even those with no > CHAT background? I think that, irrespective of the committee's background, > your thesis should be intelligible for any scholar in the social/cognitive > sciences. I believe that it is in that exercise that you might actually to > develop a more sophisticated grasp of the notion. If you rely on what the > committee already knows about CHAT, you are more likely to leave some > assumptions under-stated, and then perhaps, non-articulated to them or to > yourself. By having to make your argument visible to any one, you will have > to deal with the assumptions that you are working with, and will not hide > anything to the committee or to yourself. > > Those my two cents; others? > Also, there is a special issue on perezhivanie coming up soon at MCA that > should be quite helpful for dealing with these issues. > Cheers, > Alfredo > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: 15 August 2016 01:22 > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov > > Dear XMCA Colleagues, > > I am writing my PhD thesis now about perezhivanie in analog role-playing > games. Based on the speeches of Professor Veresov, and in order to make > things less confusing for the thesis committee here in Japan (they do not > know much about CHAT), I am thinking in using "developmental emotional > experiences" for perezhivanie as phenomena and perezhivanie for > perezhivanie as a concept. What are your opinions on this? > > All the best for you. > > Wagner Luiz Schmit > University of Tsukuba > > On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > Here are links to Nickolai Veresov's keynote speech on Perezhivanie on > > Symposium at ISCAR in Sydney. > > > > Perezhivanie in Cultural-Historical Theory: The Concept and is content. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMpYarIRzs > > > > or at > > > > https://vimeo.com/164861983 > > > > > > Andy > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Andy Blunden > > http://home.mira.net/~andy > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Sun Aug 14 17:52:36 2016 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:52:36 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov In-Reply-To: References: <16706e18-7978-c162-a9c3-362e4292aa85@mira.net> <1471218716470.76652@iped.uio.no> Message-ID: Dear XMCA Colleagues, Just to clarify, it is not that people in Japan does not know about CHAT, it is just about the thesis committee here in the University of Tsukuba. There are many books about CHAT in Japanese. Sorry for my misleading post. Wagner On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Wagner Luiz Schmit wrote: > Thank you Alfredo, > > What you suggest is what I have done in my paper for Culture and > Psychology, and you make some good points. Thank you very much. > > Wagner > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil > wrote: > >> Dear Wagner, >> >> would not using two different names, one of which is your own designation >> rather than the result of consensus, be even more confusing? Indeed, >> "developmental emotional experiences" may be a particularly problematic >> term since, if you follow Vygotsky, perezhivanie is a unit of development, >> and always involves not only emotional but also intellectual aspects. Why >> not "developmental emotional and intellectual experiences" then? But that >> would be problematic as well, because it would be like supposing that there >> is anything worth the name experience that would not already involve both >> the intellect and the affects (vegetative experience? unconscious >> experience?), or would not change you in the least of the ways. Of course, >> all three terms, developmental, emotional, and experience, may be useful >> for discussing perezhivanie; but I doubt it is a good idea to use a >> composite of them to substitute it, specially when perezhivanie was >> conceived as a unit that denotes unity, and not a composite of different >> elements/aspects. >> >> So, why not stick to one word, and then elaborate on its different >> aspects or dimensions in a way that anyone could understand it, even those >> with no CHAT background? I think that, irrespective of the committee's >> background, your thesis should be intelligible for any scholar in the >> social/cognitive sciences. I believe that it is in that exercise that you >> might actually to develop a more sophisticated grasp of the notion. If you >> rely on what the committee already knows about CHAT, you are more likely to >> leave some assumptions under-stated, and then perhaps, non-articulated to >> them or to yourself. By having to make your argument visible to any one, >> you will have to deal with the assumptions that you are working with, and >> will not hide anything to the committee or to yourself. >> >> Those my two cents; others? >> Also, there is a special issue on perezhivanie coming up soon at MCA that >> should be quite helpful for dealing with these issues. >> Cheers, >> Alfredo >> ________________________________________ >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu >> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit >> Sent: 15 August 2016 01:22 >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Videos on perezhivanie from Nikolai Veresov >> >> Dear XMCA Colleagues, >> >> I am writing my PhD thesis now about perezhivanie in analog role-playing >> games. Based on the speeches of Professor Veresov, and in order to make >> things less confusing for the thesis committee here in Japan (they do not >> know much about CHAT), I am thinking in using "developmental emotional >> experiences" for perezhivanie as phenomena and perezhivanie for >> perezhivanie as a concept. What are your opinions on this? >> >> All the best for you. >> >> Wagner Luiz Schmit >> University of Tsukuba >> >> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> > Here are links to Nickolai Veresov's keynote speech on Perezhivanie on >> > Symposium at ISCAR in Sydney. >> > >> > Perezhivanie in Cultural-Historical Theory: The Concept and is content. >> > >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMpYarIRzs >> > >> > or at >> > >> > https://vimeo.com/164861983 >> > >> > >> > Andy >> > -- >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >> > Andy Blunden >> > http://home.mira.net/~andy >> > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making >> > >> > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Aug 15 15:43:01 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 15:43:01 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Open Postdoctoral and Research Associate positions at Haskins Laboratories In-Reply-To: <34879EE7-61CE-4C95-A4D1-136BEE15864C@yale.edu> References: <34879EE7-61CE-4C95-A4D1-136BEE15864C@yale.edu> Message-ID: Please see the link below for descriptions of two open Research Associate and one open Postdoctoral Associate position at Haskins Laboratories. Successful applicants for our Research Associate and Postdoctoral Associate positions will work on NIH funded research focused on the neurobiology of reading and language development and disability in young children and school aged children. http://www.haskins.yale.edu/jobs.html Haskins Laboratories is an independent, international, multidisciplinary community of researchers conducting basic research on spoken and written language. Exchanging ideas, fostering collaborations, and forging partnerships across the sciences, it produces groundbreaking research that enhances our understanding of?and reveals ways to improve or remediate?speech perception and production, reading and reading disabilities, and human communication. Haskins Laboratories is an Equal Opportunity Employer. Best, Nicole Nicole Landi, PhD Assistant Professor, University of Connecticut, Department of Psychological Sciences Director of EEG Research & Senior Scientist, Haskins Laboratories Faculty Affiliate, University of Connecticut, Cognitive Sciences Program Faculty Affiliate, University of Connecticut, Department of Speech Language & Hearing Sciences Adjunct Assistant Professor of Psychology, Yale Child Study Center nicole.landi@uconn.edu nicole.landi@yale.edu http://psych.uconn.edu/faculty/nicole-landi/ http://landi.lab.uconn.edu/ _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From jalevin@ucsd.edu Mon Aug 15 21:23:08 2016 From: jalevin@ucsd.edu (Jim Levin) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:23:08 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Assistant/Associate Professor Position in Transforming Special Education at UC San Diego Message-ID: <10D119E7-57AA-4E40-B18A-002F182F5902@ucsd.edu> Dear Colleagues and Friends, The Department of Education Studies at UC San Diego is excited to announce a new faculty position in Transforming Special Education. We are looking for a colleague at the tenure-track (Assistant Professor) or tenured (Associate Professor) level. The position is described at: http://tinyurl.com/eds-tse-search Please forward this position announcement to anyone that you think might be interested. This is an important area of education and we appreciate your support and interest in our search. Thanks, Jim Levin From smago@uga.edu Tue Aug 16 03:24:10 2016 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:24:10 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] "English" as a school subject Message-ID: Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, with a question. In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of English by speakers of other languages. My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch Language and culture Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? Thx,Peter From jgregmcverry@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 03:31:03 2016 From: jgregmcverry@gmail.com (Greg Mcverry) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:31:03 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter, I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in India where imperial government officials feared their children were being deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of disciplinary literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn to read and write. Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > From carolmacdon@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 03:49:59 2016 From: carolmacdon@gmail.com (Carol Macdonald) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:49:59 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter In South Africa, all eleven of our official languages simply called English Home Language, Afrikaans Home Language, siSwati Home Language, Sesotho Home Language, etc. all have the same format as the English you describe. However, this far, only Afrikaans has a highly developed Literature.(They have had 90 years to do that.) For Grade 12, there is Poetry, Drama and a "setwork book" (a classic) for the Literature paper. Then there is a language (grammar) paper and a essay, media-studies, advert etc. third paper. (There is a political reason for calling this Home Language. If we call it English First Language, we might have to called another subject English Second Language, which is regarded is insulting. Instead, we call ESL, English as a First Additional Language, and then we also have English as a Second Additional Language. Apart from French, Latin and German, lots of students do three languages for Grade 12. (Just a little squib.)) I hope that helps. Carol On 16 August 2016 at 12:24, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > -- Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za From smago@uga.edu Tue Aug 16 03:54:01 2016 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:54:01 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Greg for the prompt reply. English Education is actually my field, so I'm pretty familiar with the American version, which has long rested on the tripod of literature, writing, and language study as a school subject. Literature is getting shortchanged these days because of the Common Core, but for the most part the subject has been intact for some time now. p -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Mcverry Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 6:31 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject Peter, I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in India where imperial government officials feared their children were being deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of disciplinary literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn to read and write. Greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > systems, with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, rather than "world literature" which may have its own > separate course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > study (of the English language, often in the form of grammar > instruction). This subject is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of > describing learning the language of English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component > was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like > Dutch Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > From dkellogg60@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 04:25:37 2016 From: dkellogg60@gmail.com (David Kellogg) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:25:37 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter: Korean is a mandatory subject in primary schools in Korea, from first grade through twelfth grade. The curriculum includes grammar, literature, and even intonation (I attended a smashing lesson on intonation for third graders a couple of weeks ago). Chinese is a mandatory subject in primary schools in China, from first through twelfth grade. The curriculum starts with learning characters, calligraphy and simple texts, and then the classics by established writers. Most university students are also required to take at least one semester of Chinese. A couple of weeks ago I attended a preschool in Seoul where the children recited the Jeonjamun every morning--that's the one thousand character Chinese classic that was written in the fifth century. It functions as a kind of alphabet song, because although it is one thousand characters long (it takes about four or five thousand characters to be functionally literate in Chinese) not one character in the whole rhyming text is repeated. You could tell how long each child had been in the preschool by watching to see who nodded off when--only the seven year olds who had been there three years could recite the whole thing from beginning to end. David Kellogg Macquarie University On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > From s.franklin08@btinternet.com Tue Aug 16 04:28:23 2016 From: s.franklin08@btinternet.com (Shirley Franklin) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:28:23 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80B84DE9-5435-4264-86C5-A9EF8975B984@btinternet.com> In England, what is meant by "English" in primary schools tends to be rather dreadful non contextualised "Literacy" Skills, while in secondary it becomes more literature-focused with some language. But the formal assessment assumes it's the same throughout and inspectors and Government wonder why kids "slip backwards" in secondary English achievements! Shows the idiocy of isolated literacy teaching and of testing. Shirley Sent from my iPhone > On 16 Aug 2016, at 11:31, Greg Mcverry wrote: > > Peter, > > I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in > India where imperial government officials feared their children were being > deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. > > I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of disciplinary > literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn to > read and write. > > Greg > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: >> >> Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public >> school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, >> with a question. >> >> In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" >> that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, >> rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), >> writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English >> language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not >> ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of >> English by speakers of other languages. >> >> My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian >> literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: >> The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en >> Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied >> linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was >> introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing >> and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch >> Language and culture >> >> Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, >> writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? >> If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? >> >> Thx,Peter >> >> From laure.kloetzer@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 05:13:21 2016 From: laure.kloetzer@gmail.com (Laure Kloetzer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:13:21 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: <80B84DE9-5435-4264-86C5-A9EF8975B984@btinternet.com> References: <80B84DE9-5435-4264-86C5-A9EF8975B984@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Hi, In France & Switzerland, French is an important school subject. Curriculum includes reading/writing, then later (from 7-8 years old) spelling, some grammar, vocabulary, and later again (around 11-12) literature (dominantly French). Best LK 2016-08-16 13:28 GMT+02:00 Shirley Franklin : > In England, what is meant by "English" in primary schools tends to be > rather dreadful non contextualised "Literacy" Skills, while in secondary it > becomes more literature-focused with some language. > But the formal assessment assumes it's the same throughout and inspectors > and Government wonder why kids "slip backwards" in secondary English > achievements! > > Shows the idiocy of isolated literacy teaching and of testing. > > Shirley > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 16 Aug 2016, at 11:31, Greg Mcverry wrote: > > > > Peter, > > > > I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in > > India where imperial government officials feared their children were > being > > deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. > > > > I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of > disciplinary > > literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn > to > > read and write. > > > > Greg > > > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > >> > >> Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > >> school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > >> with a question. > >> > >> In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > >> that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > >> rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > >> writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > >> language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > >> ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > >> English by speakers of other languages. > >> > >> My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > >> literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > >> The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > >> Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > >> linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > >> introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing > >> and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > >> Language and culture > >> > >> Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > >> writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > >> If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > >> > >> Thx,Peter > >> > >> > > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Tue Aug 16 05:15:43 2016 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:15:43 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject Message-ID: <2opbb70b0kica3k8946iiucm.1471349736883@email.android.com> In haiti, The haitian academy of kreyol has just established kreyol as the medium of instruction in k-12 education over french.? The emphasis is on kreyol literature, writing, grammar, and (vodou) culture. ?Michel de Graffe (MIT professor and member of the academy), via his MIT initiative, was instrumental in ?consolidating the process. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note? 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Peter Smagorinsky Date: 8/16/2016 6:24 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu)" Subject: [Xmca-l] "English" as a school subject Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, with a question. In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of English by speakers of other languages. My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch Language and culture Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? Thx,Peter From stephenwals@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 05:33:31 2016 From: stephenwals@gmail.com (Stephen Walsh) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:33:31 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Peter, In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together for you. Best regards, Stephen On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > From mark.yomogi@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 07:04:03 2016 From: mark.yomogi@gmail.com (Mark de Boer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:04:03 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory Message-ID: Hello! I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help out with my question(s). I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment in the forum) 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being shared. I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at work. What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and additions to the content. I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the use of the language. Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening with the data. Respectfully, Mark From glassman.13@osu.edu Tue Aug 16 07:22:42 2016 From: glassman.13@osu.edu (Glassman, Michael) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:22:42 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C32935@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Hi Mark, I think the issue is really complex. Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for presentation or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use the technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good poster means a better grade). On the other hand if you can show that the students are really changing each other's thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from the dialogue you presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, for progressive development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really interesting stuff on this. Take a look at some of their articles. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Mark de Boer Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:04 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory Hello! I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help out with my question(s). I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment in the forum) 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being shared. I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at work. What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and additions to the content. I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the use of the language. Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening with the data. Respectfully, Mark From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Aug 16 08:14:07 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:14:07 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. Mike On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Mark de Boer wrote: > Hello! > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > out with my question(s). > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > shared. > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > work. > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > additions to the content. > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > use of the language. > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening > with the data. > > Respectfully, > > Mark > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From carolmacdon@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 08:29:12 2016 From: carolmacdon@gmail.com (Carol Macdonald) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:29:12 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to offer. Carol On 16 August 2016 at 17:14, mike cole wrote: > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > > out with my question(s). > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are > collaboratively > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some > information' > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in > the > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > > shared. > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural > dialogue, > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of > the > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > work. > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, > they > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of > what > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > additions to the content. > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads > it > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in > 3. > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the > discussions > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to > bounce > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second > language > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of > language > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > > use of the language. > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B > may > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a > suggestion > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is > a > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object > coupled > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is > happening > > with the data. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Mark > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > -- Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za From lpscholar2@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 08:38:00 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Lplarry) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:38:00 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57b33365.4ae7420a.b32bd.1cc3@mx.google.com> Mark, I may be going way off course in my stream of thought creating an ox-bow formation that is irrelevant in this stream of your reflections and questions. If so just ignore my think-aloud. In recent posts if you were listening in to Rien Raud?s exploration of *ity* your theme can be seen to circulate between specific/ity and general/ity in the dynamics of creating objective/ity. To construct the (object) of activity are you creating objectives? Are these objectives developing THROUGH the process of objective/ity? You want to show or demonstrate that there are a number (count *them*) of activity systems at work. Content pushes dialogue & dialogue pushes content? Is there also *pulling* dynamics *drawing* us to become absorbed or enter into a number of *systems*. My question hinges on the * permeability* of each of these (systems) that are demarcating the topography or structure of each (specific) system. What we (place) inside a particular system that occurs with systematic/ity *in order to* make sense of the many activity systems that are creating (producing, constructing) the *object* as our objective. The objects particular *objective/ity* that develops within this dynamic process. I will pause here and leave my stream of thought as an ox-bow phenomena cut off from the source of this flow of dialogue and joint participation. The exploration of the relation of (objects) and objectives and (objective/ity) THROUGH a number of permeable demarcations. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Mark de Boer From mcole@ucsd.edu Tue Aug 16 09:20:54 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:20:54 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Job Posting - Assistant Professor of Psychology/Educational Psychologist - Rhodes College In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Assistant Professor of Psychology/Educational Psychologist. *The Psychology Department at Rhodes College invites applications for a tenure-track position. The successful candidate must possess a firm commitment to teaching, scholarship, and service at a liberal arts college. Preference will be given to candidates who have demonstrated commitments to urban education and working with historically marginalized populations. Teaching responsibilities will include five courses a year from the following: introductory psychology, educational psychology, child and/or adolescent development, learning and motivation, advanced research methods in psychology, and upper-level research and seminar courses in the candidate?s research area. Previous teaching experience is desirable. Candidates must have completed all requirements for a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology or a related field by July 2017. A number of interdisciplinary fields yield graduates who would be appropriate for this position (e.g., Liberal Studies in Urban Childhood, Interdisciplinary Human Development, Educational Science programs). The successful candidate will contribute to an interdisciplinary Educational Studies major, will be expected to establish and maintain an active program of research involving undergraduates, and to participate in the life of the College. Research opportunities will be supported by startup funds, lab space, and by Rhodes partnerships with the Shelby County School district and other educational institutions in the city. Founded in 1848, Rhodes College is a highly selective, private, residential, undergraduate college, located in Memphis, Tennessee. We aspire to graduate students with a lifelong passion for learning, a compassion for others, and the ability to translate academic study and personal concern into effective leadership and action in their communities and the world. We encourage applications from candidates interested in helping us achieve this vision . Rhodes College values an inclusive and welcoming environment. We are an equal opportunity employer committed to diversity in the workforce. Memphis has a metropolitan population of over one million and provides multiple opportunities for research and for cultural and recreational activities . Please apply online at jobs.rhodes.edu; only online applications will be accepted. A complete application includes a cover letter, a CV, a statement of teaching philosophy, a research plan, and three letters of recommendation. Please address in your cover letter your interest in teaching at a liberal arts college and how your experiences with teaching, scholarship, and/or service might contribute to a college community that includes a commitment to diversity as one of its core values. Review of completed applications will begin on October 1 and continue until the position is filled. The online application system will solicit letters of recommendation electronically from the candidate?s recommenders once their contact information has been entered by the candidate and the search committee requests them. Background checks are required before candidates can be brought to campus for interviews. For further information please contact Dr. Katherine White, whitek@rhodes.edu . ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Sean Hardwick Departmental Assistant Anthropology & Sociology and Psychology Rhodes College 2000 North Parkway Memphis, TN 38112 (901) 843-3930 hardwicks@rhodes.edu -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mpacker@uniandes.edu.co Tue Aug 16 09:28:27 2016 From: mpacker@uniandes.edu.co (Martin John Packer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:28:27 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? Martin From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 09:59:58 2016 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:59:58 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to the previous turn? The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. -greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Martin John Packer < mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote: > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From fsulliva@temple.edu Tue Aug 16 10:52:39 2016 From: fsulliva@temple.edu (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:52:39 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish citizens? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > HI Peter, > e > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together for > you. > > Best regards, > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > with a question. > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > Language and culture > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > From stephenwals@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 11:08:52 2016 From: stephenwals@gmail.com (Stephen Walsh) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:08:52 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Francis, Yes - Irish is doing ok. My Irish is poor but my daughter is fluent. She, and many people her age (she's a teenager), go to Irish language schools and that, in my view, has given the language a real boost. Stephen On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM, FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN wrote: > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish > citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together > for > > you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > > with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > not > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > studied > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > From anamshane@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 11:19:04 2016 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:19:04 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: <0497597b2f7a112b60d2a1baccae1544@mail.gmail.com> References: <0497597b2f7a112b60d2a1baccae1544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear XMCAers? Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Opening Syllabus for EDUC 855.16F, Sociocultural Theories in Education, grad seminar, 2016-08-15.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 74466 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160816/e5978c10/attachment.bin From banvenlak@yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 11:42:52 2016 From: banvenlak@yahoo.com (Lakshmi Bandlamudi) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: <0497597b2f7a112b60d2a1baccae1544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <307206405.15759682.1471372972582.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Although I have not contributed to the discussions, I follow them quite diligently, and recent discussions prompted me to bring to your attention my recently?published book and the details are given below. I thought there might be some?Bakhtin enthusiasts in this group. Difference, Dialogue, and Development?is an in-depth exploration of the collected works of Mikhail Bakhtin to find relevance of key concepts of dialogism for understanding various aspects of human development. Taking the reality of differences in the world as a given, Bandlamudi argues that such a reality necessitates dialogue, and actively responding to that necessity leads to development. The varied works of Bakhtin that span several decades passing through the most tumultuous period in Russian history, are brought under one banner of three D?s ? Difference, Dialogue and Development ? and the composite features of the three D?s emerge as leitmotifs in every chapter. ? In an ocean of Bakhtiniana, this is a fresh voice.? Lakshmi Bandlamudi? brings together the disparate works Bakhtin wrote over a long lifetime in a reading that adds ?Development? to the usual ?Ds?(Dialog, Difference) in Bakhtin studies.? In so doing, she adds another dimension to the heteronomy called ?Bakhtin?. Michael Holquist. Yale University. ? ? Lakshmi Bandlamudi?s?Difference, Dialogue, and Development?has to rank among the very best, certainly the clearest, most astute expositions of Michail Bakhtin?s writings. Her aim is not simply to explicate the Russian thinker?s wide-ranging, at times seemingly contradictory, essays but to depict his worldview and the ethical implications that derive from his commitment to the ever-shifting dialogical dimensions of human life ? to encounters that resist definition, as definition is demanded. Bandlamudi accepts, indeed elaborates, the challenges to the staid visions of the human sciences that Bakhtin poses. As such she challenges those same staid assumptions that govern so much of our lives. Her work is transformative. Vincent Crapanzano. Distinguished Professor of Comparative Literature and Anthropology. Graduate Center, CUNY? ? Also, here are the chapter headings: ? CONTENTS ? Preface ?Acknowledgements ?Chapter 1. Introduction: Dialogue = Development ?Chapter 2. The Novel & The Hero: Developmental Narrative & The Developing Subject ?Chapter 3. Creative Living and Aesthetic Vision:?Cultivating Finer Sensibilities ?Chapter 4. Carnivalization of Consciousness: A Catalyst for Development ?Chapter 5. Authoring the Self ? Answering the Other:?Epistemological Necessities and Ethical Obligations ?Chapter 6. Dialogic Method for Human Sciences:?Between the Message Giver ? Message ? Messenger ? and Message Receiver ?Chapter 7. Differences as the Will to Power and Freedom to Choose On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:20 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: Dear XMCAers? Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 9781138805927.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85797 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160816/a485a195/attachment.jpg From banvenlak@yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 11:42:52 2016 From: banvenlak@yahoo.com (Lakshmi Bandlamudi) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: <0497597b2f7a112b60d2a1baccae1544@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <307206405.15759682.1471372972582.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hello, Although I have not contributed to the discussions, I follow them quite diligently, and recent discussions prompted me to bring to your attention my recently?published book and the details are given below. I thought there might be some?Bakhtin enthusiasts in this group. Difference, Dialogue, and Development?is an in-depth exploration of the collected works of Mikhail Bakhtin to find relevance of key concepts of dialogism for understanding various aspects of human development. Taking the reality of differences in the world as a given, Bandlamudi argues that such a reality necessitates dialogue, and actively responding to that necessity leads to development. The varied works of Bakhtin that span several decades passing through the most tumultuous period in Russian history, are brought under one banner of three D?s ? Difference, Dialogue and Development ? and the composite features of the three D?s emerge as leitmotifs in every chapter. ? In an ocean of Bakhtiniana, this is a fresh voice.? Lakshmi Bandlamudi? brings together the disparate works Bakhtin wrote over a long lifetime in a reading that adds ?Development? to the usual ?Ds?(Dialog, Difference) in Bakhtin studies.? In so doing, she adds another dimension to the heteronomy called ?Bakhtin?. Michael Holquist. Yale University. ? ? Lakshmi Bandlamudi?s?Difference, Dialogue, and Development?has to rank among the very best, certainly the clearest, most astute expositions of Michail Bakhtin?s writings. Her aim is not simply to explicate the Russian thinker?s wide-ranging, at times seemingly contradictory, essays but to depict his worldview and the ethical implications that derive from his commitment to the ever-shifting dialogical dimensions of human life ? to encounters that resist definition, as definition is demanded. Bandlamudi accepts, indeed elaborates, the challenges to the staid visions of the human sciences that Bakhtin poses. As such she challenges those same staid assumptions that govern so much of our lives. Her work is transformative. Vincent Crapanzano. Distinguished Professor of Comparative Literature and Anthropology. Graduate Center, CUNY? ? Also, here are the chapter headings: ? CONTENTS ? Preface ?Acknowledgements ?Chapter 1. Introduction: Dialogue = Development ?Chapter 2. The Novel & The Hero: Developmental Narrative & The Developing Subject ?Chapter 3. Creative Living and Aesthetic Vision:?Cultivating Finer Sensibilities ?Chapter 4. Carnivalization of Consciousness: A Catalyst for Development ?Chapter 5. Authoring the Self ? Answering the Other:?Epistemological Necessities and Ethical Obligations ?Chapter 6. Dialogic Method for Human Sciences:?Between the Message Giver ? Message ? Messenger ? and Message Receiver ?Chapter 7. Differences as the Will to Power and Freedom to Choose On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:20 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: Dear XMCAers? Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 9781138805927.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85797 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160816/a485a195/attachment-0001.jpg From fsulliva@temple.edu Tue Aug 16 11:49:29 2016 From: fsulliva@temple.edu (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:49:29 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As someone who has always identified as an Irish American (no hyphen), I am so glad to hear this. Thank you for responding. Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Frederick Douglass On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > Hi Francis, > > Yes - Irish is doing ok. My Irish is poor but my daughter is fluent. She, > and many people her age (she's a teenager), go to Irish language schools > and that, in my view, has given the language a real boost. > > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM, FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > wrote: > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > are > > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > Irish > > citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If > it > > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together > > for > > > you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > systems, > > > > with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > course), > > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > not > > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > Russian > > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > studied > > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > writing > > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > > Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From dkirsh@lsu.edu Tue Aug 16 12:15:55 2016 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:15:55 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish citizens? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > HI Peter, > e > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > together for you. > > Best regards, > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > systems, with a question. > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study > > (of the > English > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > component was > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > From fsulliva@temple.edu Tue Aug 16 13:04:53 2016 From: fsulliva@temple.edu (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:04:53 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or "Englic"? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Frederick Douglass On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and now is > spoken mainly in western Scotland. > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys in a > Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute drive > whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > Irish citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > together for you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > > systems, with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study > > > (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > > not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > From dkirsh@lsu.edu Tue Aug 16 15:51:17 2016 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:51:17 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All I can figure is that the prosody of Gaelic and deeply Scottish-accent English is nearly identical. So, no code switching, just 3 guys having a conversation among themselves. It sounded like I should understand what they were saying, but I couldn't quite put the phonemes together into lexical items. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:05 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or "Englic"? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Frederick Douglass On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and > now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys > in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute > drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? > What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken > language among Irish citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > together for you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > > > public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) > > > education systems, with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > > > study (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > > > is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > From helen.grimmett@monash.edu Tue Aug 16 17:48:59 2016 From: helen.grimmett@monash.edu (Helen Grimmett) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:48:59 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My Scottish neighbour Rab is a builder, and when he showed up briefly on our Australian home reno reality TV series "The Block" they put subtitles up every time he spoke because his accent was so thick! My husband and I were wishing that this facility was available in real life for our 'over the fence' conversations! I understand completely David your feeling that you should understand what is being said, but not having the foggiest idea what is going on. Sorry Peter, we seem to have derailed your thread... In Australia, English is much as you describe (the tripod) and is compulsory through to Year 12. However, in recent times (at least in the state of Victoria), Year 11 & 12 students can now choose between 'mainstream' English (the tripod), Literature (mostly text analysis), English Language (the 'science' of language and language acquisition) or English as an Additional Language (for students with less than 7 years instruction in English speaking schools - except in the case of indigenous and hearing-impaired students) to meet this compulsory requirement. All schools teach mainstream English, most would offer Literature and EAL if they have enough students wanting to do them, but relatively few offer English Language. Cheers, Helen -- *Dr HELEN GRIMMETT * Lecturer in Primary and Early Years Education Professional Experience Liaison - Primary *Education* Monash University Room 159, Building 902, Berwick Campus 100 Clyde Road Berwick VIC 3806 Australia T: +61 3 9904 7171 E: helen.grimmett@monash.edu monash.edu *Recent work:* Helen Grimmett (2016): The Problem of ?Just Tell Us?: Insights from Playing with Poetic Inquiry and Dialogical Self Theory, *Studying Teacher Education*, DOI: 10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 Helen Grimmett (2014), The Practice of Teachers' Professional Development: A Cultural-Historical Approach , Rotterdam: Sense Publishers On 17 August 2016 at 08:51, David H Kirshner wrote: > All I can figure is that the prosody of Gaelic and deeply Scottish-accent > English is nearly identical. > So, no code switching, just 3 guys having a conversation among themselves. > It sounded like I should understand what they were saying, but I couldn't > quite put the phonemes together into lexical items. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:05 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or > "Englic"? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact > measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. > > Frederick Douglass > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and > > now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. > > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys > > in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute > > drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? > > What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken > > language among Irish citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > > together for you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > > > > public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) > > > > education systems, with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > > > > study (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > > > > is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > > following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > > component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From mpacker@uniandes.edu.co Tue Aug 16 19:53:03 2016 From: mpacker@uniandes.edu.co (Martin John Packer) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 02:53:03 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <452899F5-04C3-4BA1-992D-E247EFF3D97C@uniandes.edu.co> Mark, I think what Greg and I are each pointing towards is that a line-by-line analysis, *guided* by theory, is going to provide more insight into what is going on than an attempt to ?prove? that it is one or another theoretical ?category' of dialogue. Martin > On Aug 16, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Martin John Packer < > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote: > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: >>> >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. >> >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! >> >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an >> attachment >>> in the forum) >> >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? >> >> Martin >> >> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From mark.yomogi@gmail.com Tue Aug 16 23:36:12 2016 From: mark.yomogi@gmail.com (Mark de Boer) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:36:12 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: <57b33365.4ae7420a.b32bd.1cc3@mx.google.com> References: <57b33365.4ae7420a.b32bd.1cc3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Larry, Thank you for your reply. I'm not creating objectives per se, the objective of the activity is for the learners to decide what to do. Inevitably, they need to give a poster presentation, a powerpoint presentation and a report on their findings. The topic is laid out with the rest up to them. I let them be students with very little interference from me. I wanted to observe their collaboration, I use this term in the sense of their working together towards a common goal. They need to decide what to research, their schedule, what to present. What I observe is what they do with the language, how they share information, how they 'assess' each other, and what they do to move their 'object' to completion. Much like any other research on dynamic assessment, I want to understand their process, but in my case, sans teacher and without the focus on grammar. I've been along the track of Engestrom's expansive learning, viewing their movements as (based on Engestrom's 5 principles) 'an artifact-mediated and object-oriented activity system, seen in its network relations to other activity systems' and 'a multi -voicedness' and 'the central role of contradictions'. (I don't have Engestrom's 1999 Keynote address Changing practice through research: Changing research through practice, so I cannot expand much further than cited sources). If you want to view the object (the improvable object) as something that permeates between systems, then it would serve to view each individual learner as their own system, but part of a larger system. (attached). Because of the learner's different perspectives, mediation is important. They are constructing a shared object, (later they diverge as one of the group members specifically divides the topics up and assigns them to individual members - yet the objects come together at the end). If a metaphor could describe this, it could be pictured as a group of students sitting around a table sharing ideas. One puts an idea down on the table, another one picks it up (or all of them), makes comments, adds information, and puts it down again. As they do this they 'say something'. In some cases the idea is returned to table without changes, but comments suggest changes and the changes are made. The students have their own access to sources of information, they can discuss information with the group or research information elsewhere. It is a very open dynamic environment with the object at the center. No one needs to say anything really, they can just pass the document back and forth. But that is not what happens. And this is not an isolated case, all groups (11 groups in all) behaved in the same way. And looking over a number of years, each year, the presentations and reports are completely different, but the learners go through the same process. As I have argued, the focus is on the object, not who is doing what, but what is being done. The object is key to how they communicate or collaborate. You might be able to say that there are pulling dynamics, the dynamics of the group with impending deadlines force the learners to collaborate, but the dialogue is very specific. The learners are very detailed about what they discuss, what changes were made, what needs to be done. I've also brought Feuerstein's MLE into the equation, because it needs to be argued that they are 'interactionists', assessing each other through their perspectives, and assisting each other in developing both language and skills. The text in the forums, the text in the object that they are building are just different modalities. But these different modalities end up serving the other. I'm not sure if 'permeable demarcations' is something that can be applied here. My perspective may be very narrow, but without much collaboration with the outside world on this topic, I may have developed a slight tunnel vision. Hence my plea to the xmca list. Every aspect I examine always seems to bring me back to the same place I started. Mark On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Lplarry wrote: > Mark, > > I may be going way off course in my stream of thought creating an ox-bow > formation that is irrelevant in this stream of your reflections and > questions. If so just ignore my think-aloud. > > > > In recent posts if you were listening in to Rien Raud?s exploration of * > *ity** your theme can be seen to circulate between specific/ity and > general/ity in the dynamics of creating objective/ity. > > > > To construct the (object) of activity are you creating objectives? Are > these objectives developing THROUGH the process of objective/ity? > > You want to show or demonstrate that there are a number (count **them**) > of activity systems at work. > > > > Content pushes dialogue & dialogue pushes content? > > > > Is there also **pulling** dynamics **drawing** us to become absorbed or > enter into a number of *systems*. > > > > My question hinges on the > > * permeability* of each of these (systems) that are demarcating the > topography or structure of each (specific) system. What we (place) inside a > particular system that occurs with systematic/ity **in order to** make > sense of the many activity systems that are creating (producing, > constructing) the *object* as our objective. The objects particular * > *objective/ity** that develops within this dynamic process. > > I will pause here and leave my stream of thought as an ox-bow phenomena > cut off from the source of this flow of dialogue and joint participation. > > The exploration of the relation of (objects) and objectives and > (objective/ity) > > THROUGH a number of permeable demarcations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > *From: *Mark de Boer > *Sent: *August 16, 2016 7:06 AM > *To: *xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory > > > > Hello! > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > > out with my question(s). > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > > in the forum) > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > > shared. > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > work. > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > additions to the content. > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > > use of the language. > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening > > with the data. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Mark > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: activity systems.png Type: image/png Size: 101564 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160817/310e4df2/attachment.png From EDiaz@csusb.edu Wed Aug 17 09:14:12 2016 From: EDiaz@csusb.edu (Stephen Diaz) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:14:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: <0497597b2f7a112b60d2a1baccae1544@mail.gmail.com>, Message-ID: Thanks for posting Gene's syllabus. I just want to comment on the glaring gap in the curricular map. That is the absence of the work of Michael Cole's work in the syllabus. It is good that Gene allows students to introduce and pursue their own perspectives and interests because one of the first changes I would make as a student would be to include Cole's work in the curricular map. Gene's syllabus is great contribution to those of us who teach in this area. Thank you. Esteban Diaz ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:19 AM To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar Dear XMCAers- Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus "Sociocultural Theories in Education." Attached please find my "final draft" of it - actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won't be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 From EDiaz@csusb.edu Wed Aug 17 09:14:12 2016 From: EDiaz@csusb.edu (Stephen Diaz) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:14:12 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar In-Reply-To: References: <0497597b2f7a112b60d2a1baccae1544@mail.gmail.com>, Message-ID: Thanks for posting Gene's syllabus. I just want to comment on the glaring gap in the curricular map. That is the absence of the work of Michael Cole's work in the syllabus. It is good that Gene allows students to introduce and pursue their own perspectives and interests because one of the first changes I would make as a student would be to include Cole's work in the curricular map. Gene's syllabus is great contribution to those of us who teach in this area. Thank you. Esteban Diaz ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:19 AM To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar Dear XMCAers- Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus "Sociocultural Theories in Education." Attached please find my "final draft" of it - actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won't be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Aug 17 11:37:19 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:37:19 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration In-Reply-To: <43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8@1078> References: <43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8@1078> Message-ID: This ad struck me as an interesting indication of a domain in which a lot of our discussions about mediation, cooperation, communication, collaboration find a natural home. mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Polycom Inc. Date: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:33 AM Subject: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration To: mcole@ucsd.edu The traditional office space is dead. Welcome a new world of shared, open spaces. [image: logo] [image: img] [image: The Incredible Shrinking Office: Transforming Workspaces to Empower Collaboration] new Report The Incredible Shrinking Office: Transforming Workspaces to Empower Collaboration Various studies show that up to 82% of knowledge workers feel they need to collaborate with others throughout the day to get work done. Yet, according to an IBM study, 78% say they struggle to effectively connect their workplace and help people collaborate?either virtually or face-to-face. Why? The answer is not all collaboration is alike. Go to the report to get the latest trends in office space utilization and learn about the three main types of collaboration and how they need to be supported differently in the work environment. go to report [image: img] Collaborate in a circle, regardless of location Witness the power of meeting in the round in this interactive demo of Polycom? RealPresence Centro?. Go to Demo [image: img] NATO embraces a new way of working NATO Communications and Information (NCI) agency is changing how global participants meet and interact. Watch Video [image: img] Polycom Experience Center Open House - Upcoming Dates Visit a Polycom experience center to see demonstrations of the latest innovations in group video collaboration. See Dates & Locations Polycom, Inc. 6001 America Center Drive, San Jose, CA 95002 Tel: 1.800.POLYCOM | Web: http://www.polycom.com You are subscribed as mcole@ucsd.edu. Online Version | Privacy Policy | Unsubscribe ?2016 Polycom, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All other brands, products, or service names are or may be trademarks or service marks of, and are used to identify, products or services of their respective owners. -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mark.yomogi@gmail.com Wed Aug 17 22:00:06 2016 From: mark.yomogi@gmail.com (Mark de Boer) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:00:06 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory Message-ID: Hello! Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my mailbox, so I am consolidating the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone below each of your messages. Hi Mark, I think the issue is really complex. Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for presentation or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use the technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good poster means a better grade). On the other hand if you can show that the students are really changing each other's thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from the dialogue you presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, for progressive development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really interesting stuff on this. Take a look at some of their articles. Michael Hello Michael, The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, but as they are doing this, the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the data are facts concerning pet bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a message that pet bottles are harmful for the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using them. So although the dialogue I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is not shown in my short example), the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be done, what message should be put in the poster, but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there is influence of content, content added often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they are dynamically assessing each other. Hi Mark It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. Mike I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to offer. Carol Hello Mike and Carol, Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing in the forums, and came up with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The thinking came from reading 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, as learners are working on their understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going to present on. I showed division of labour, subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show that on one side there was the language which was driving the process forward, this can be easily proven using different analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end product, it was used as a tool for their presentation (tools-and-results activity). I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the data. > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? Martin Dear Martin, Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing a poster as a group, they (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to create 'their part of the poster', so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I made my poster' (contribution to the group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader divides the work of the poster into topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to assign these topics to the other students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being created - moving from student to student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the dialogue shows evidence that the students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about what gets written, and in some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters are printed and put on the wall ready for presenting. Mark, I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to the previous turn? The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. -greg Dear Greg, I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to get developed, the leader of the group decides that there should be specific themes running though the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some information, but now student C takes that poster and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). So the poster begins to get built by adding topic information. So although there is continuity and old information, there is discontinuity and new information added. Later some of the students also put information into the poster that begins to link the different topics together. At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, and then there is a discontinuity and new information. The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although some information is pulled) and each student begins to work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to the forum as changes are made. Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. Warm regards, Mark From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 18 10:20:39 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:20:39 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark -- I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I am mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords with my understanding. It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it form disparate people! mike http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models%20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer wrote: > Hello! > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > below each of your messages. > > > Hi Mark, > > I think the issue is really complex. > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > presentation > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > the > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > poster means a better grade). > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > changing each other's > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > the dialogue you > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > for progressive > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > interesting stuff on this. > Take a look at some of their articles. > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > but as they are doing this, > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > data are facts concerning pet > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > them. So although the dialogue > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > not shown in my short example), > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > done, what message should be put in the poster, > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > is influence of content, content added > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > offer. > > Carol > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > in the forums, and came up > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > thinking came from reading > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > as learners are working on their > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > (tools-and-results activity). > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > data. > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > Dear Martin, > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > a poster as a group, they > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > create 'their part of the poster', > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > made my poster' (contribution to the > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > divides the work of the poster into > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > assign these topics to the other > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > created - moving from student to > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > dialogue shows evidence that the > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > what gets written, and in > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > are printed and put on the wall > > ready for presenting. > > > > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > Dear Greg, > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > get developed, the leader of > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > information, but now student C takes that poster > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > begins to link the different topics together. > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > the forum as changes are made. > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > Warm regards, > > Mark > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From hshonerd@gmail.com Thu Aug 18 12:32:59 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:59 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> Mike, Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my own commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not ignorance, make or break dialog in the classroom. Henry > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Mark -- > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I am > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > with my understanding. > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it form > disparate people! > > mike > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models%20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > >> Hello! >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my >> mailbox, so I am consolidating >> >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone >> below each of your messages. >> >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> I think the issue is really complex. >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for >> presentation >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use >> the >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good >> poster means a better grade). >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really >> changing each other's >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from >> the dialogue you >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, >> for progressive >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. >> >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really >> interesting stuff on this. >> Take a look at some of their articles. >> >> Michael >> >> >> Hello Michael, >> >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, >> but as they are doing this, >> >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the >> data are facts concerning pet >> >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a >> message that pet bottles are harmful for >> >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using >> them. So although the dialogue >> >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is >> not shown in my short example), >> >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be >> done, what message should be put in the poster, >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there >> is influence of content, content added >> >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, >> >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they >> are dynamically assessing each other. >> >> >> >> Hi Mark >> >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. >> Mike >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to >> offer. >> >> Carol >> >> Hello Mike and Carol, >> >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing >> in the forums, and came up >> >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The >> thinking came from reading >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, >> as learners are working on their >> >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going >> to present on. I showed division of labour, >> >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show >> that on one side there was the language which was driving >> >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of >> >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation >> (tools-and-results activity). >> >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the >> data. >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: >>> >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. >> >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! >> >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an >> attachment >>> in the forum) >> >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? >> >> Martin >> >> Dear Martin, >> >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing >> a poster as a group, they >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to >> create 'their part of the poster', >> >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I >> made my poster' (contribution to the >> >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader >> divides the work of the poster into >> >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to >> assign these topics to the other >> >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being >> created - moving from student to >> >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the >> dialogue shows evidence that the >> >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about >> what gets written, and in >> >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters >> are printed and put on the wall >> >> ready for presenting. >> >> >> >> >> Mark, >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: >> >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle >> use) Please give me your opinion. >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" >> >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to >> the previous turn? >> >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. >> >> -greg >> >> Dear Greg, >> >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to >> get developed, the leader of >> >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided >> >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some >> information, but now student C takes that poster >> >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). >> So the poster begins to get built by adding >> >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. >> >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that >> begins to link the different topics together. >> >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly >> >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. >> >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to >> >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to >> the forum as changes are made. >> >> >> >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to >> >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. >> >> Warm regards, >> >> Mark >> > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 18 13:07:30 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:07:30 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> References: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> Message-ID: Perhaps, Henry. I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a single activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the additional apparatus. mike On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Mike, > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my own > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not ignorance, > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > Henry > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Mark -- > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > am > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > > with my understanding. > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > form > > disparate people! > > > > mike > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > wrote: > > > >> Hello! > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > >> > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > >> below each of your messages. > >> > >> > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> I think the issue is really complex. > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > >> presentation > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > create > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > >> the > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > >> poster means a better grade). > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > >> changing each other's > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > >> the dialogue you > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > >> for progressive > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > theory. > >> > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > >> interesting stuff on this. > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> Hello Michael, > >> > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > >> but as they are doing this, > >> > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > >> data are facts concerning pet > >> > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > >> > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > >> them. So although the dialogue > >> > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > >> not shown in my short example), > >> > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > >> is influence of content, content added > >> > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > >> > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Mark > >> > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > >> Mike > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > >> offer. > >> > >> Carol > >> > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > >> > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > >> in the forums, and came up > >> > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > >> thinking came from reading > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > >> as learners are working on their > >> > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > >> > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > >> > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > >> > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > >> (tools-and-results activity). > >> > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > >> data. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > >>> > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > >> > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > >> > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > >> attachment > >>> in the forum) > >> > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> Dear Martin, > >> > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > >> a poster as a group, they > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > >> create 'their part of the poster', > >> > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > >> > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > >> divides the work of the poster into > >> > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > >> assign these topics to the other > >> > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > >> created - moving from student to > >> > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > >> > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > >> what gets written, and in > >> > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > >> are printed and put on the wall > >> > >> ready for presenting. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mark, > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > >> > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > bottle > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > >> > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates > to > >> the previous turn? > >> > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > unclear > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > >> > >> -greg > >> > >> Dear Greg, > >> > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > >> get developed, the leader of > >> > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > >> > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > >> > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > >> > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > >> > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > >> begins to link the different topics together. > >> > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > >> > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > >> > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > >> > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > >> the forum as changes are made. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > >> > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > >> > >> Warm regards, > >> > >> Mark > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From schuckthemonkey@gmail.com Thu Aug 18 13:25:11 2016 From: schuckthemonkey@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:25:11 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> Message-ID: Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose work partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity system? On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > Perhaps, Henry. > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a single > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > additional apparatus. > > mike > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > > > Mike, > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > own > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > ignorance, > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > between > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > > am > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > accords > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > > form > > > disparate people! > > > > > > mike > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello! > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > >> > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > >> below each of your messages. > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > >> presentation > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type > of > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > > create > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to > use > > >> the > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > >> poster means a better grade). > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > >> changing each other's > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > >> the dialogue you > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > > >> for progressive > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > theory. > > >> > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> > > >> Hello Michael, > > >> > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > > >> but as they are doing this, > > >> > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > >> > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > >> > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > >> > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > >> not shown in my short example), > > >> > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > >> is influence of content, content added > > >> > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > >> > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Mark > > >> > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > >> Mike > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have > to > > >> offer. > > >> > > >> Carol > > >> > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > >> > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > >> in the forums, and came up > > >> > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > >> thinking came from reading > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > > >> as learners are working on their > > >> > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > >> > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > >> > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > >> > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > >> > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of > the > > >> data. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > > But > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > >> > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > >> > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > >> attachment > > >>> in the forum) > > >> > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > >> > > >> Martin > > >> > > >> Dear Martin, > > >> > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > > >> a poster as a group, they > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > >> > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > >> > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > >> > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > >> assign these topics to the other > > >> > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > >> created - moving from student to > > >> > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > >> > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > > >> what gets written, and in > > >> > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > >> > > >> ready for presenting. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Mark, > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > >> > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in > our > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > bottle > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > > file > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > >> > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or > was > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce > to > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > something > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > students > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates > > to > > >> the previous turn? > > >> > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > > unclear > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > about > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > >> > > >> -greg > > >> > > >> Dear Greg, > > >> > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > >> get developed, the leader of > > >> > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > >> > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > >> > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > >> > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > >> > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > >> > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > >> > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > >> > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > >> > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > >> > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > >> > > >> Warm regards, > > >> > > >> Mark > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 18 15:18:33 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:18:33 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> Message-ID: Interesting question, Christopher. Maybe an expert will have the answer! mike On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Christopher Schuck < schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose work > partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been > discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the > introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or > would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity > system? > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Perhaps, Henry. > > > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a > single > > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > > additional apparatus. > > > > mike > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > > wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not > mistaken, > > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > > own > > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On > the > > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education > in > > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the > zone > > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > > ignorance, > > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > > between > > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. > Perhaps I > > > am > > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > > accords > > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of > it > > > form > > > > disparate people! > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer < > mark.yomogi@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hello! > > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > > >> > > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > > >> below each of your messages. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Mark, > > > >> > > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > > >> presentation > > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the > type > > of > > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > > > create > > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to > > use > > > >> the > > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > > >> poster means a better grade). > > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > > >> changing each other's > > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > > >> the dialogue you > > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented > thinking, > > > >> for progressive > > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > > theory. > > > >> > > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hello Michael, > > > >> > > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the > poster, > > > >> but as they are doing this, > > > >> > > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > > >> > > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > > >> > > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop > using > > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > > >> > > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > > >> not shown in my short example), > > > >> > > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should > be > > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > > >> is influence of content, content added > > > >> > > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. > The > > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > > >> > > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, > they > > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Mark > > > >> > > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > > >> Mike > > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of > labour, > > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your > situation, > > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss > to > > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might > have > > to > > > >> offer. > > > >> > > > >> Carol > > > >> > > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > > >> > > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > > >> in the forums, and came up > > > >> > > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > > >> thinking came from reading > > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by > Engestrom, > > > >> as learners are working on their > > > >> > > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > > >> > > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to > show > > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > > >> > > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > > >> > > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > > >> > > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of > > the > > > >> data. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple > case. > > > But > > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > >> > > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > >> > > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > > >> attachment > > > >>> in the forum) > > > >> > > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > >> > > > >> Martin > > > >> > > > >> Dear Martin, > > > >> > > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are > developing > > > >> a poster as a group, they > > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > > >> > > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to > 'I > > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > > >> > > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > > >> > > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > > >> assign these topics to the other > > > >> > > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > > >> created - moving from student to > > > >> > > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > > >> > > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions > about > > > >> what gets written, and in > > > >> > > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > > >> > > > >> ready for presenting. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Mark, > > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > >> > > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in > > our > > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > > bottle > > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' > (poster4 > > > file > > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > >> > > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or > > was > > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce > > to > > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > > something > > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > > students > > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn > relates > > > to > > > >> the previous turn? > > > >> > > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > > > unclear > > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > > about > > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > >> > > > >> -greg > > > >> > > > >> Dear Greg, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > > >> get developed, the leader of > > > >> > > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running > though > > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > > >> > > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > > >> > > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already > there). > > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > > >> > > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > > >> > > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > > >> > > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > > >> > > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, > etc, > > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > > >> > > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned > (although > > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > > >> > > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it > to > > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > > >> > > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would > be > > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > > >> > > > >> Warm regards, > > > >> > > > >> Mark > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > > object > > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Thu Aug 18 16:03:18 2016 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:03:18 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Small point here Mark about the 5/6 transition, but as an American English speaker, and given the further clarification that you just provided, I feel like Student C's comment in 6 is lacking something about how to connect it to what came before. I would have expected some kind of linking clause or transition like "[to student B] that's a great idea. I am attaching a poster..." I would suggest two possibilities for why this didn't happen: 1a. this is a metapragmatic difference between their native tongue and English. 1b. they don't have the linguistic resources to accomplish this kind of bridging (although "that's a great idea seems grammatically and semantically simple enough that I would assume that, based on their other utterances, would have been easy enough to produce). 2. It is unnecessary given the medium in which they are working (i.e., the collaborative nature of Student C's comment in 6 is obvious given what has come before). Of course there may be others, but each of these options point to how collaboration is mediated by the means of communication (whether the means are metapragmatics, linguistic resources, or the medium of communication). That doesn't get you to 3rd gen activity theory but it seems to be something that is old school activity theory. It seems to be clearly there in the data. What's more, it is this aspect of collaboration that is entirely left out of many models of collaboration (see the virtual communication system that Mike sent an email about shortly ago). Just one thought among many. -greg On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:00 PM, Mark de Boer wrote: > Hello! > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > below each of your messages. > > > Hi Mark, > > I think the issue is really complex. > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > presentation > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > the > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > poster means a better grade). > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > changing each other's > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > the dialogue you > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > for progressive > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > interesting stuff on this. > Take a look at some of their articles. > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > but as they are doing this, > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > data are facts concerning pet > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > them. So although the dialogue > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > not shown in my short example), > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > done, what message should be put in the poster, > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > is influence of content, content added > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > offer. > > Carol > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > in the forums, and came up > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > thinking came from reading > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > as learners are working on their > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > (tools-and-results activity). > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > data. > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > Dear Martin, > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > a poster as a group, they > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > create 'their part of the poster', > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > made my poster' (contribution to the > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > divides the work of the poster into > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > assign these topics to the other > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > created - moving from student to > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > dialogue shows evidence that the > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > what gets written, and in > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > are printed and put on the wall > > ready for presenting. > > > > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > Dear Greg, > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > get developed, the leader of > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > information, but now student C takes that poster > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > begins to link the different topics together. > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > the forum as changes are made. > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > Warm regards, > > Mark > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 19 08:20:10 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:20:10 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv In-Reply-To: <8898b1e0f7b542c5a465f7dfa5f7e2ee@pitt-prodx-08.univ.pitt.edu> References: <8898b1e0f7b542c5a465f7dfa5f7e2ee@pitt-prodx-08.univ.pitt.edu> Message-ID: A job Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Connell, Deborah A* Date: Tuesday, 16 August 2016 Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv To: "cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org" Cc: "Connell, Deborah A" Hello: I would like to post the attached faculty position on your Listserv. I have also included the text within this email. If you need a name of someone in good standing, you can refer to Dr. Julie Fiez. Please let me know if there is any other information that you need. Thank you! Best, Debbie *------------------------------* *Deborah Connell* Assistant to Daniel S. Shaw, Chairman ? Department of Psychology University of Pittsburgh ? 210 South Bouquet Street 3129 Sennott Square ? Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Phone: 412-624-4337 ------------------------------ The Department of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh announces a tenure track position at the *Assistant Professor* level, pending budgetary approval, for an individual with a program of research focusing on* developmental psychology*. Outstanding candidates with strong expertise in prenatal, infant, child, and/or adolescent development will be considered with a strong theoretical orientation, with emphasis in any of the following areas especially welcomed: ? Socioemotional, cognitive (including attention), or social-cognitive development, including problematic or non-normative development ? Epigenetic influences ? Developmental neuroscience (cognitive or affective) ? Advanced quantitative expertise; or who use neuroimaging or physiological methods; or who conduct applied or policy-relevant research ? As the ability to complement and extend the current strengths of the Psychology Department is also essential, optimal candidates should have cross-disciplinary interests that intersect with other departmental program areas. The Psychology Department (http://www.psychology.pitt.edu) is committed to excellence in research and in teaching at both the graduate and undergraduate levels. The Department has 38 tenure-stream faculty and houses five graduate training programs: Biological and Health, Clinical, Cognitive, Developmental, and Social, along with cross-program training opportunities. The interdisciplinary nature of psychological science is reflected in both faculty research interests and collaborations and training options afforded to graduate students. The review of applications will begin immediately, with complete applications received by October 15, 2016 receiving full consideration. Applications should be submitted electronically by sending a cover letter, CV, statements of research and teaching interests, three letters of recommendation, and up to three representative publications to *psyrecr@pitt.edu *. The subject heading of recommendation letters should include the applicant?s last name and the word Recommendation*.* Inquiries regarding the position can be addressed to the Chair of the Search Committee, Professor Jana Iverson ( jiverson@pitt.edu ). The University of Pittsburgh is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer and values equality of opportunity, human dignity and diversity. EEO/AA/M/F/Vets/Disabled. -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DevelopmentalAd.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 368008 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160819/ced68294/attachment-0001.pdf From kdaniel@wayne.edu Fri Aug 19 08:30:56 2016 From: kdaniel@wayne.edu (Kathy-Ann Daniel-Gittens) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:30:56 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Unsubscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kathy-ann Daniel-Gittens, Ph.D. Email: kdaniel@wayne.edu Phone: 407-790-6432 ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:22 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: xmca-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 3 Send xmca-l mailing list submissions to xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l xmca-l Info Page mailman.ucsd.edu XMCA-L@UCSD.EDU The mailing list for the eXtended Mind, Culture Activity group. [Subscribe the XMCA community mailing list] [Unsubscribe] [Visit the XMCA List Archive ... or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu You can reach the person managing the list at xmca-l-owner@mailman.ucsd.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of xmca-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: "English" as a school subject (David Kellogg) 2. Re: "English" as a school subject (Shirley Franklin) 3. Re: "English" as a school subject (Laure Kloetzer) 4. Re: "English" as a school subject (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) 5. Re: "English" as a school subject (Stephen Walsh) 6. 3rd generation activity theory (Mark de Boer) 7. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Glassman, Michael) 8. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) 9. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Carol Macdonald) 10. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Lplarry) 11. Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Job Posting - Assistant Professor of Psychology/Educational Psychologist - Rhodes College (mike cole) 12. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Martin John Packer) 13. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Greg Thompson) 14. Re: "English" as a school subject (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) 15. Re: "English" as a school subject (Stephen Walsh) 16. Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) 17. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar (Lakshmi Bandlamudi) 18. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar (Lakshmi Bandlamudi) 19. Re: "English" as a school subject (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) 20. Re: "English" as a school subject (David H Kirshner) 21. Re: "English" as a school subject (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) 22. Re: "English" as a school subject (David H Kirshner) 23. Re: "English" as a school subject (Helen Grimmett) 24. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Martin John Packer) 25. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Mark de Boer) 26. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar (Stephen Diaz) 27. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar (Stephen Diaz) 28. Fwd: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration (mike cole) 29. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Mark de Boer) 30. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) 31. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (HENRY SHONERD) 32. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) 33. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Christopher Schuck) 34. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) 35. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Greg Thompson) 36. Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv (mike cole) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:25:37 +1000 From: David Kellogg Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Peter: Korean is a mandatory subject in primary schools in Korea, from first grade through twelfth grade. The curriculum includes grammar, literature, and even intonation (I attended a smashing lesson on intonation for third graders a couple of weeks ago). Chinese is a mandatory subject in primary schools in China, from first through twelfth grade. The curriculum starts with learning characters, calligraphy and simple texts, and then the classics by established writers. Most university students are also required to take at least one semester of Chinese. A couple of weeks ago I attended a preschool in Seoul where the children recited the Jeonjamun every morning--that's the one thousand character Chinese classic that was written in the fifth century. It functions as a kind of alphabet song, because although it is one thousand characters long (it takes about four or five thousand characters to be functionally literate in Chinese) not one character in the whole rhyming text is repeated. You could tell how long each child had been in the preschool by watching to see who nodded off when--only the seven year olds who had been there three years could recite the whole thing from beginning to end. David Kellogg Macquarie University On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:28:23 +0100 From: Shirley Franklin Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: <80B84DE9-5435-4264-86C5-A9EF8975B984@btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In England, what is meant by "English" in primary schools tends to be rather dreadful non contextualised "Literacy" Skills, while in secondary it becomes more literature-focused with some language. But the formal assessment assumes it's the same throughout and inspectors and Government wonder why kids "slip backwards" in secondary English achievements! Shows the idiocy of isolated literacy teaching and of testing. Shirley Sent from my iPhone > On 16 Aug 2016, at 11:31, Greg Mcverry wrote: > > Peter, > > I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in > India where imperial government officials feared their children were being > deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. > > I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of disciplinary > literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn to > read and write. > > Greg > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: >> >> Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public >> school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, >> with a question. >> >> In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" >> that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, >> rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), >> writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English >> language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not >> ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of >> English by speakers of other languages. >> >> My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian >> literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: >> The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en >> Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied >> linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was >> introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing >> and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch >> Language and culture >> >> Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, >> writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? >> If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? >> >> Thx,Peter >> >> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:13:21 +0200 From: Laure Kloetzer Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, In France & Switzerland, French is an important school subject. Curriculum includes reading/writing, then later (from 7-8 years old) spelling, some grammar, vocabulary, and later again (around 11-12) literature (dominantly French). Best LK 2016-08-16 13:28 GMT+02:00 Shirley Franklin : > In England, what is meant by "English" in primary schools tends to be > rather dreadful non contextualised "Literacy" Skills, while in secondary it > becomes more literature-focused with some language. > But the formal assessment assumes it's the same throughout and inspectors > and Government wonder why kids "slip backwards" in secondary English > achievements! > > Shows the idiocy of isolated literacy teaching and of testing. > > Shirley > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 16 Aug 2016, at 11:31, Greg Mcverry wrote: > > > > Peter, > > > > I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in > > India where imperial government officials feared their children were > being > > deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. > > > > I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of > disciplinary > > literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn > to > > read and write. > > > > Greg > > > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > >> > >> Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > >> school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > >> with a question. > >> > >> In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > >> that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > >> rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > >> writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > >> language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > >> ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > >> English by speakers of other languages. > >> > >> My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > >> literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > >> The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > >> Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > >> linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > >> introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing > >> and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > >> Language and culture > >> > >> Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > >> writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > >> If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > >> > >> Thx,Peter > >> > >> > > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:15:43 -0400 From: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: <2opbb70b0kica3k8946iiucm.1471349736883@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In haiti, The haitian academy of kreyol has just established kreyol as the medium of instruction in k-12 education over french.? The emphasis is on kreyol literature, writing, grammar, and (vodou) culture. ?Michel de Graffe (MIT professor and member of the academy), via his MIT initiative, was instrumental in ?consolidating the process. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note? 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Peter Smagorinsky Date: 8/16/2016 6:24 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu)" Subject: [Xmca-l] "English" as a school subject Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, with a question. In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of English by speakers of other languages. My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch Language and culture Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? Thx,Peter ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:33:31 +0100 From: Stephen Walsh Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 HI Peter, In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together for you. Best regards, Stephen On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:04:03 +0900 From: Mark de Boer Subject: [Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello! I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help out with my question(s). I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment in the forum) 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being shared. I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at work. What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and additions to the content. I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the use of the language. Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening with the data. Respectfully, Mark ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:22:42 +0000 From: "Glassman, Michael" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C32935@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04.osuad.osu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Mark, I think the issue is really complex. Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for presentation or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use the technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good poster means a better grade). On the other hand if you can show that the students are really changing each other's thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from the dialogue you presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, for progressive development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really interesting stuff on this. Take a look at some of their articles. Michael -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Mark de Boer Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:04 AM To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Subject: [Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory Hello! I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help out with my question(s). I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment in the forum) 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being shared. I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at work. What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and additions to the content. I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the use of the language. Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening with the data. Respectfully, Mark ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:14:07 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Mark It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. Mike On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Mark de Boer wrote: > Hello! > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > out with my question(s). > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > shared. > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > work. > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > additions to the content. > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > use of the language. > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening > with the data. > > Respectfully, > > Mark > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:29:12 +0200 From: Carol Macdonald Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to offer. Carol On 16 August 2016 at 17:14, mike cole wrote: > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > > out with my question(s). > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are > collaboratively > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some > information' > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in > the > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > > shared. > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural > dialogue, > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of > the > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > work. > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, > they > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of > what > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > additions to the content. > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads > it > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in > 3. > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the > discussions > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to > bounce > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second > language > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of > language > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > > use of the language. > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B > may > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a > suggestion > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is > a > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object > coupled > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is > happening > > with the data. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Mark > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > -- Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:38:00 -0700 From: Lplarry Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: Mark de Boer , "xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu" Message-ID: <57b33365.4ae7420a.b32bd.1cc3@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mark, I may be going way off course in my stream of thought creating an ox-bow formation that is irrelevant in this stream of your reflections and questions. If so just ignore my think-aloud. In recent posts if you were listening in to Rien Raud?s exploration of *ity* your theme can be seen to circulate between specific/ity and general/ity in the dynamics of creating objective/ity. To construct the (object) of activity are you creating objectives? Are these objectives developing THROUGH the process of objective/ity? You want to show or demonstrate that there are a number (count *them*) of activity systems at work. Content pushes dialogue & dialogue pushes content? Is there also *pulling* dynamics *drawing* us to become absorbed or enter into a number of *systems*. My question hinges on the * permeability* of each of these (systems) that are demarcating the topography or structure of each (specific) system. What we (place) inside a particular system that occurs with systematic/ity *in order to* make sense of the many activity systems that are creating (producing, constructing) the *object* as our objective. The objects particular *objective/ity* that develops within this dynamic process. I will pause here and leave my stream of thought as an ox-bow phenomena cut off from the source of this flow of dialogue and joint participation. The exploration of the relation of (objects) and objectives and (objective/ity) THROUGH a number of permeable demarcations. Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: Mark de Boer ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:20:54 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Job Posting - Assistant Professor of Psychology/Educational Psychologist - Rhodes College To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 *Assistant Professor of Psychology/Educational Psychologist. *The Psychology Department at Rhodes College invites applications for a tenure-track position. The successful candidate must possess a firm commitment to teaching, scholarship, and service at a liberal arts college. Preference will be given to candidates who have demonstrated commitments to urban education and working with historically marginalized populations. Teaching responsibilities will include five courses a year from the following: introductory psychology, educational psychology, child and/or adolescent development, learning and motivation, advanced research methods in psychology, and upper-level research and seminar courses in the candidate?s research area. Previous teaching experience is desirable. Candidates must have completed all requirements for a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology or a related field by July 2017. A number of interdisciplinary fields yield graduates who would be appropriate for this position (e.g., Liberal Studies in Urban Childhood, Interdisciplinary Human Development, Educational Science programs). The successful candidate will contribute to an interdisciplinary Educational Studies major, will be expected to establish and maintain an active program of research involving undergraduates, and to participate in the life of the College. Research opportunities will be supported by startup funds, lab space, and by Rhodes partnerships with the Shelby County School district and other educational institutions in the city. Founded in 1848, Rhodes College is a highly selective, private, residential, undergraduate college, located in Memphis, Tennessee. We aspire to graduate students with a lifelong passion for learning, a compassion for others, and the ability to translate academic study and personal concern into effective leadership and action in their communities and the world. We encourage applications from candidates interested in helping us achieve this vision . Rhodes College values an inclusive and welcoming environment. We are an equal opportunity employer committed to diversity in the workforce. Memphis has a metropolitan population of over one million and provides multiple opportunities for research and for cultural and recreational activities . Please apply online at jobs.rhodes.edu; only online applications will be accepted. A complete application includes a cover letter, a CV, a statement of teaching philosophy, a research plan, and three letters of recommendation. Please address in your cover letter your interest in teaching at a liberal arts college and how your experiences with teaching, scholarship, and/or service might contribute to a college community that includes a commitment to diversity as one of its core values. Review of completed applications will begin on October 1 and continue until the position is filled. The online application system will solicit letters of recommendation electronically from the candidate?s recommenders once their contact information has been entered by the candidate and the search committee requests them. Background checks are required before candidates can be brought to campus for interviews. For further information please contact Dr. Katherine White, whitek@rhodes.edu . ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Sean Hardwick Departmental Assistant Anthropology & Sociology and Psychology Rhodes College 2000 North Parkway Memphis, TN 38112 (901) 843-3930 hardwicks@rhodes.edu -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:28:27 +0000 From: Martin John Packer Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? Martin ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:59:58 -0600 From: Greg Thompson Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Mark, I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to the previous turn? The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. -greg On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Martin John Packer < mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote: > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:52:39 -0400 From: "FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish citizens? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > HI Peter, > e > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together for > you. > > Best regards, > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > with a question. > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > Language and culture > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:08:52 +0100 From: Stephen Walsh Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Francis, Yes - Irish is doing ok. My Irish is poor but my daughter is fluent. She, and many people her age (she's a teenager), go to Irish language schools and that, in my view, has given the language a real boost. Stephen On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM, FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN wrote: > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish > citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together > for > > you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > > with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > not > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > studied > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:19:04 +0000 From: Ana Marjanovic-Shane Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar To: "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear XMCAers? Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Opening Syllabus for EDUC 855.16F, Sociocultural Theories in Education, grad seminar, 2016-08-15.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 74466 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160816/e5978c10/attachment-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Lakshmi Bandlamudi Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov Message-ID: <307206405.15759682.1471372972582.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello, Although I have not contributed to the discussions, I follow them quite diligently, and recent discussions prompted me to bring to your attention my recently?published book and the details are given below. I thought there might be some?Bakhtin enthusiasts in this group. Difference, Dialogue, and Development?is an in-depth exploration of the collected works of Mikhail Bakhtin to find relevance of key concepts of dialogism for understanding various aspects of human development. Taking the reality of differences in the world as a given, Bandlamudi argues that such a reality necessitates dialogue, and actively responding to that necessity leads to development. The varied works of Bakhtin that span several decades passing through the most tumultuous period in Russian history, are brought under one banner of three D?s ? Difference, Dialogue and Development ? and the composite features of the three D?s emerge as leitmotifs in every chapter. ? In an ocean of Bakhtiniana, this is a fresh voice.? Lakshmi Bandlamudi? brings together the disparate works Bakhtin wrote over a long lifetime in a reading that adds ?Development? to the usual ?Ds?(Dialog, Difference) in Bakhtin studies.? In so doing, she adds another dimension to the heteronomy called ?Bakhtin?. Michael Holquist. Yale University. ? ? Lakshmi Bandlamudi?s?Difference, Dialogue, and Development?has to rank among the very best, certainly the clearest, most astute expositions of Michail Bakhtin?s writings. Her aim is not simply to explicate the Russian thinker?s wide-ranging, at times seemingly contradictory, essays but to depict his worldview and the ethical implications that derive from his commitment to the ever-shifting dialogical dimensions of human life ? to encounters that resist definition, as definition is demanded. Bandlamudi accepts, indeed elaborates, the challenges to the staid visions of the human sciences that Bakhtin poses. As such she challenges those same staid assumptions that govern so much of our lives. Her work is transformative. Vincent Crapanzano. Distinguished Professor of Comparative Literature and Anthropology. Graduate Center, CUNY? ? Also, here are the chapter headings: ? CONTENTS ? Preface ?Acknowledgements ?Chapter 1. Introduction: Dialogue = Development ?Chapter 2. The Novel & The Hero: Developmental Narrative & The Developing Subject ?Chapter 3. Creative Living and Aesthetic Vision:?Cultivating Finer Sensibilities ?Chapter 4. Carnivalization of Consciousness: A Catalyst for Development ?Chapter 5. Authoring the Self ? Answering the Other:?Epistemological Necessities and Ethical Obligations ?Chapter 6. Dialogic Method for Human Sciences:?Between the Message Giver ? Message ? Messenger ? and Message Receiver ?Chapter 7. Differences as the Will to Power and Freedom to Choose On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:20 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: Dear XMCAers? Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 9781138805927.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85797 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160816/a485a195/attachment-0002.jpg ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Lakshmi Bandlamudi Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov Message-ID: <307206405.15759682.1471372972582.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello, Although I have not contributed to the discussions, I follow them quite diligently, and recent discussions prompted me to bring to your attention my recently?published book and the details are given below. I thought there might be some?Bakhtin enthusiasts in this group. Difference, Dialogue, and Development?is an in-depth exploration of the collected works of Mikhail Bakhtin to find relevance of key concepts of dialogism for understanding various aspects of human development. Taking the reality of differences in the world as a given, Bandlamudi argues that such a reality necessitates dialogue, and actively responding to that necessity leads to development. The varied works of Bakhtin that span several decades passing through the most tumultuous period in Russian history, are brought under one banner of three D?s ? Difference, Dialogue and Development ? and the composite features of the three D?s emerge as leitmotifs in every chapter. ? In an ocean of Bakhtiniana, this is a fresh voice.? Lakshmi Bandlamudi? brings together the disparate works Bakhtin wrote over a long lifetime in a reading that adds ?Development? to the usual ?Ds?(Dialog, Difference) in Bakhtin studies.? In so doing, she adds another dimension to the heteronomy called ?Bakhtin?. Michael Holquist. Yale University. ? ? Lakshmi Bandlamudi?s?Difference, Dialogue, and Development?has to rank among the very best, certainly the clearest, most astute expositions of Michail Bakhtin?s writings. Her aim is not simply to explicate the Russian thinker?s wide-ranging, at times seemingly contradictory, essays but to depict his worldview and the ethical implications that derive from his commitment to the ever-shifting dialogical dimensions of human life ? to encounters that resist definition, as definition is demanded. Bandlamudi accepts, indeed elaborates, the challenges to the staid visions of the human sciences that Bakhtin poses. As such she challenges those same staid assumptions that govern so much of our lives. Her work is transformative. Vincent Crapanzano. Distinguished Professor of Comparative Literature and Anthropology. Graduate Center, CUNY? ? Also, here are the chapter headings: ? CONTENTS ? Preface ?Acknowledgements ?Chapter 1. Introduction: Dialogue = Development ?Chapter 2. The Novel & The Hero: Developmental Narrative & The Developing Subject ?Chapter 3. Creative Living and Aesthetic Vision:?Cultivating Finer Sensibilities ?Chapter 4. Carnivalization of Consciousness: A Catalyst for Development ?Chapter 5. Authoring the Self ? Answering the Other:?Epistemological Necessities and Ethical Obligations ?Chapter 6. Dialogic Method for Human Sciences:?Between the Message Giver ? Message ? Messenger ? and Message Receiver ?Chapter 7. Differences as the Will to Power and Freedom to Choose On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:20 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: Dear XMCAers? Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 9781138805927.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 85797 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160816/a485a195/attachment-0003.jpg ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:49:29 -0400 From: "FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 As someone who has always identified as an Irish American (no hyphen), I am so glad to hear this. Thank you for responding. Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Frederick Douglass On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > Hi Francis, > > Yes - Irish is doing ok. My Irish is poor but my daughter is fluent. She, > and many people her age (she's a teenager), go to Irish language schools > and that, in my view, has given the language a real boost. > > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM, FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > wrote: > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > are > > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > Irish > > citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If > it > > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together > > for > > > you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > systems, > > > > with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > course), > > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > not > > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > Russian > > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > studied > > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > writing > > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > > Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:15:55 +0000 From: David H Kirshner Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish citizens? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh wrote: > HI Peter, > e > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > together for you. > > Best regards, > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > systems, with a question. > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study > > (of the > English > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > component was > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:04:53 -0400 From: "FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or "Englic"? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Frederick Douglass On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and now is > spoken mainly in western Scotland. > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys in a > Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute drive > whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > Irish citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > together for you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > > systems, with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study > > > (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > > not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:51:17 +0000 From: David H Kirshner Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" All I can figure is that the prosody of Gaelic and deeply Scottish-accent English is nearly identical. So, no code switching, just 3 guys having a conversation among themselves. It sounded like I should understand what they were saying, but I couldn't quite put the phonemes together into lexical items. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:05 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or "Englic"? Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Teaching and Learning College of Education Temple University Philadelphia, PA 19122 Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Frederick Douglass On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and > now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys > in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute > drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? > What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken > language among Irish citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > together for you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > > > public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) > > > education systems, with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > > > study (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > > > is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:48:59 +1000 From: Helen Grimmett Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My Scottish neighbour Rab is a builder, and when he showed up briefly on our Australian home reno reality TV series "The Block" they put subtitles up every time he spoke because his accent was so thick! My husband and I were wishing that this facility was available in real life for our 'over the fence' conversations! I understand completely David your feeling that you should understand what is being said, but not having the foggiest idea what is going on. Sorry Peter, we seem to have derailed your thread... In Australia, English is much as you describe (the tripod) and is compulsory through to Year 12. However, in recent times (at least in the state of Victoria), Year 11 & 12 students can now choose between 'mainstream' English (the tripod), Literature (mostly text analysis), English Language (the 'science' of language and language acquisition) or English as an Additional Language (for students with less than 7 years instruction in English speaking schools - except in the case of indigenous and hearing-impaired students) to meet this compulsory requirement. All schools teach mainstream English, most would offer Literature and EAL if they have enough students wanting to do them, but relatively few offer English Language. Cheers, Helen -- *Dr HELEN GRIMMETT * Lecturer in Primary and Early Years Education Professional Experience Liaison - Primary *Education* Monash University Room 159, Building 902, Berwick Campus 100 Clyde Road Berwick VIC 3806 Australia T: +61 3 9904 7171 E: helen.grimmett@monash.edu monash.edu *Recent work:* Helen Grimmett (2016): The Problem of ?Just Tell Us?: Insights from Playing with Poetic Inquiry and Dialogical Self Theory, *Studying Teacher Education*, DOI: 10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 Helen Grimmett (2014), The Practice of Teachers' Professional Development: A Cultural-Historical Approach , Rotterdam: Sense Publishers On 17 August 2016 at 08:51, David H Kirshner wrote: > All I can figure is that the prosody of Gaelic and deeply Scottish-accent > English is nearly identical. > So, no code switching, just 3 guys having a conversation among themselves. > It sounded like I should understand what they were saying, but I couldn't > quite put the phonemes together into lexical items. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:05 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or > "Englic"? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact > measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. > > Frederick Douglass > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and > > now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. > > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys > > in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute > > drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? > > What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken > > language among Irish citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > > together for you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > > > > public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) > > > > education systems, with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > > > > study (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > > > > is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > > following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > > component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 02:53:03 +0000 From: Martin John Packer Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: <452899F5-04C3-4BA1-992D-E247EFF3D97C@uniandes.edu.co> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mark, I think what Greg and I are each pointing towards is that a line-by-line analysis, *guided* by theory, is going to provide more insight into what is going on than an attempt to ?prove? that it is one or another theoretical ?category' of dialogue. Martin > On Aug 16, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Martin John Packer < > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote: > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: >>> >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. >> >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! >> >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an >> attachment >>> in the forum) >> >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? >> >> Martin >> >> >> > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:36:12 +0900 From: Mark de Boer Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: Lplarry , xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Larry, Thank you for your reply. I'm not creating objectives per se, the objective of the activity is for the learners to decide what to do. Inevitably, they need to give a poster presentation, a powerpoint presentation and a report on their findings. The topic is laid out with the rest up to them. I let them be students with very little interference from me. I wanted to observe their collaboration, I use this term in the sense of their working together towards a common goal. They need to decide what to research, their schedule, what to present. What I observe is what they do with the language, how they share information, how they 'assess' each other, and what they do to move their 'object' to completion. Much like any other research on dynamic assessment, I want to understand their process, but in my case, sans teacher and without the focus on grammar. I've been along the track of Engestrom's expansive learning, viewing their movements as (based on Engestrom's 5 principles) 'an artifact-mediated and object-oriented activity system, seen in its network relations to other activity systems' and 'a multi -voicedness' and 'the central role of contradictions'. (I don't have Engestrom's 1999 Keynote address Changing practice through research: Changing research through practice, so I cannot expand much further than cited sources). If you want to view the object (the improvable object) as something that permeates between systems, then it would serve to view each individual learner as their own system, but part of a larger system. (attached). Because of the learner's different perspectives, mediation is important. They are constructing a shared object, (later they diverge as one of the group members specifically divides the topics up and assigns them to individual members - yet the objects come together at the end). If a metaphor could describe this, it could be pictured as a group of students sitting around a table sharing ideas. One puts an idea down on the table, another one picks it up (or all of them), makes comments, adds information, and puts it down again. As they do this they 'say something'. In some cases the idea is returned to table without changes, but comments suggest changes and the changes are made. The students have their own access to sources of information, they can discuss information with the group or research information elsewhere. It is a very open dynamic environment with the object at the center. No one needs to say anything really, they can just pass the document back and forth. But that is not what happens. And this is not an isolated case, all groups (11 groups in all) behaved in the same way. And looking over a number of years, each year, the presentations and reports are completely different, but the learners go through the same process. As I have argued, the focus is on the object, not who is doing what, but what is being done. The object is key to how they communicate or collaborate. You might be able to say that there are pulling dynamics, the dynamics of the group with impending deadlines force the learners to collaborate, but the dialogue is very specific. The learners are very detailed about what they discuss, what changes were made, what needs to be done. I've also brought Feuerstein's MLE into the equation, because it needs to be argued that they are 'interactionists', assessing each other through their perspectives, and assisting each other in developing both language and skills. The text in the forums, the text in the object that they are building are just different modalities. But these different modalities end up serving the other. I'm not sure if 'permeable demarcations' is something that can be applied here. My perspective may be very narrow, but without much collaboration with the outside world on this topic, I may have developed a slight tunnel vision. Hence my plea to the xmca list. Every aspect I examine always seems to bring me back to the same place I started. Mark On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Lplarry wrote: > Mark, > > I may be going way off course in my stream of thought creating an ox-bow > formation that is irrelevant in this stream of your reflections and > questions. If so just ignore my think-aloud. > > > > In recent posts if you were listening in to Rien Raud?s exploration of * > *ity** your theme can be seen to circulate between specific/ity and > general/ity in the dynamics of creating objective/ity. > > > > To construct the (object) of activity are you creating objectives? Are > these objectives developing THROUGH the process of objective/ity? > > You want to show or demonstrate that there are a number (count **them**) > of activity systems at work. > > > > Content pushes dialogue & dialogue pushes content? > > > > Is there also **pulling** dynamics **drawing** us to become absorbed or > enter into a number of *systems*. > > > > My question hinges on the > > * permeability* of each of these (systems) that are demarcating the > topography or structure of each (specific) system. What we (place) inside a > particular system that occurs with systematic/ity **in order to** make > sense of the many activity systems that are creating (producing, > constructing) the *object* as our objective. The objects particular * > *objective/ity** that develops within this dynamic process. > > I will pause here and leave my stream of thought as an ox-bow phenomena > cut off from the source of this flow of dialogue and joint participation. > > The exploration of the relation of (objects) and objectives and > (objective/ity) > > THROUGH a number of permeable demarcations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > *From: *Mark de Boer > *Sent: *August 16, 2016 7:06 AM > *To: *xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory > > > > Hello! > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > > out with my question(s). > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > > in the forum) > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > > shared. > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > work. > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > additions to the content. > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > > use of the language. > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening > > with the data. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Mark > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: activity systems.png Type: image/png Size: 101564 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160817/310e4df2/attachment-0001.png ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:14:12 +0000 From: Stephen Diaz Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar To: "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for posting Gene's syllabus. I just want to comment on the glaring gap in the curricular map. That is the absence of the work of Michael Cole's work in the syllabus. It is good that Gene allows students to introduce and pursue their own perspectives and interests because one of the first changes I would make as a student would be to include Cole's work in the curricular map. Gene's syllabus is great contribution to those of us who teach in this area. Thank you. Esteban Diaz ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:19 AM To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar Dear XMCAers- Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus "Sociocultural Theories in Education." Attached please find my "final draft" of it - actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won't be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:14:12 +0000 From: Stephen Diaz Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar To: "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for posting Gene's syllabus. I just want to comment on the glaring gap in the curricular map. That is the absence of the work of Michael Cole's work in the syllabus. It is good that Gene allows students to introduce and pursue their own perspectives and interests because one of the first changes I would make as a student would be to include Cole's work in the curricular map. Gene's syllabus is great contribution to those of us who teach in this area. Thank you. Esteban Diaz ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:19 AM To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar Dear XMCAers- Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus "Sociocultural Theories in Education." Attached please find my "final draft" of it - actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won't be late. Take care, Eugene ---------------------------- Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal Professor of Education School of Education 16 W Main st University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716, USA Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ ---------------------------- -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 -- *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) Associate Professor of Education Chestnut Hill College phone: 267-334-2905 ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:37:19 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 This ad struck me as an interesting indication of a domain in which a lot of our discussions about mediation, cooperation, communication, collaboration find a natural home. mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Polycom Inc. Date: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:33 AM Subject: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration To: mcole@ucsd.edu The traditional office space is dead. Welcome a new world of shared, open spaces. [image: logo] [image: img] [image: The Incredible Shrinking Office: Transforming Workspaces to Empower Collaboration] new Report The Incredible Shrinking Office: Transforming Workspaces to Empower Collaboration Various studies show that up to 82% of knowledge workers feel they need to collaborate with others throughout the day to get work done. Yet, according to an IBM study, 78% say they struggle to effectively connect their workplace and help people collaborate?either virtually or face-to-face. Why? The answer is not all collaboration is alike. Go to the report to get the latest trends in office space utilization and learn about the three main types of collaboration and how they need to be supported differently in the work environment. go to report [image: img] Collaborate in a circle, regardless of location Witness the power of meeting in the round in this interactive demo of Polycom? RealPresence Centro?. Go to Demo [image: img] NATO embraces a new way of working NATO Communications and Information (NCI) agency is changing how global participants meet and interact. Watch Video [image: img] Polycom Experience Center Open House - Upcoming Dates Visit a Polycom experience center to see demonstrations of the latest innovations in group video collaboration. See Dates & Locations Polycom, Inc. 6001 America Center Drive, San Jose, CA 95002 Tel: 1.800.POLYCOM | Web: http://www.polycom.com You are subscribed as mcole@ucsd.edu. Online Version | Privacy Policy | Unsubscribe ?2016 Polycom, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All other brands, products, or service names are or may be trademarks or service marks of, and are used to identify, products or services of their respective owners. -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:00:06 +0900 From: Mark de Boer Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello! Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my mailbox, so I am consolidating the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone below each of your messages. Hi Mark, I think the issue is really complex. Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for presentation or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use the technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good poster means a better grade). On the other hand if you can show that the students are really changing each other's thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from the dialogue you presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, for progressive development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really interesting stuff on this. Take a look at some of their articles. Michael Hello Michael, The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, but as they are doing this, the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the data are facts concerning pet bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a message that pet bottles are harmful for the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using them. So although the dialogue I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is not shown in my short example), the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be done, what message should be put in the poster, but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there is influence of content, content added often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they are dynamically assessing each other. Hi Mark It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. Mike I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to offer. Carol Hello Mike and Carol, Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing in the forums, and came up with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The thinking came from reading 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, as learners are working on their understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going to present on. I showed division of labour, subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show that on one side there was the language which was driving the process forward, this can be easily proven using different analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end product, it was used as a tool for their presentation (tools-and-results activity). I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the data. > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? Martin Dear Martin, Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing a poster as a group, they (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to create 'their part of the poster', so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I made my poster' (contribution to the group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader divides the work of the poster into topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to assign these topics to the other students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being created - moving from student to student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the dialogue shows evidence that the students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about what gets written, and in some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters are printed and put on the wall ready for presenting. Mark, I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle use) Please give me your opinion. 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to the previous turn? The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. -greg Dear Greg, I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to get developed, the leader of the group decides that there should be specific themes running though the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some information, but now student C takes that poster and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). So the poster begins to get built by adding topic information. So although there is continuity and old information, there is discontinuity and new information added. Later some of the students also put information into the poster that begins to link the different topics together. At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, and then there is a discontinuity and new information. The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although some information is pulled) and each student begins to work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to the forum as changes are made. Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. Warm regards, Mark ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:20:39 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Mark -- I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I am mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords with my understanding. It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it form disparate people! mike http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models%20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer wrote: > Hello! > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > below each of your messages. > > > Hi Mark, > > I think the issue is really complex. > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > presentation > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > the > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > poster means a better grade). > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > changing each other's > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > the dialogue you > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > for progressive > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > interesting stuff on this. > Take a look at some of their articles. > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > but as they are doing this, > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > data are facts concerning pet > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > them. So although the dialogue > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > not shown in my short example), > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > done, what message should be put in the poster, > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > is influence of content, content added > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > offer. > > Carol > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > in the forums, and came up > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > thinking came from reading > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > as learners are working on their > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > (tools-and-results activity). > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > data. > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > Dear Martin, > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > a poster as a group, they > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > create 'their part of the poster', > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > made my poster' (contribution to the > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > divides the work of the poster into > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > assign these topics to the other > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > created - moving from student to > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > dialogue shows evidence that the > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > what gets written, and in > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > are printed and put on the wall > > ready for presenting. > > > > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > Dear Greg, > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > get developed, the leader of > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > information, but now student C takes that poster > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > begins to link the different topics together. > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > the forum as changes are made. > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > Warm regards, > > Mark > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:59 -0600 From: HENRY SHONERD Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mike, Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my own commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not ignorance, make or break dialog in the classroom. Henry > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > Mark -- > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I am > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > with my understanding. > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it form > disparate people! > > mike > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models%20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > >> Hello! >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my >> mailbox, so I am consolidating >> >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone >> below each of your messages. >> >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> I think the issue is really complex. >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for >> presentation >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use >> the >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good >> poster means a better grade). >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really >> changing each other's >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from >> the dialogue you >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, >> for progressive >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. >> >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really >> interesting stuff on this. >> Take a look at some of their articles. >> >> Michael >> >> >> Hello Michael, >> >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, >> but as they are doing this, >> >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the >> data are facts concerning pet >> >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a >> message that pet bottles are harmful for >> >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using >> them. So although the dialogue >> >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is >> not shown in my short example), >> >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be >> done, what message should be put in the poster, >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there >> is influence of content, content added >> >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, >> >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they >> are dynamically assessing each other. >> >> >> >> Hi Mark >> >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. >> Mike >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to >> offer. >> >> Carol >> >> Hello Mike and Carol, >> >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing >> in the forums, and came up >> >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The >> thinking came from reading >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, >> as learners are working on their >> >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going >> to present on. I showed division of labour, >> >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show >> that on one side there was the language which was driving >> >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of >> >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation >> (tools-and-results activity). >> >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the >> data. >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: >>> >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. >> >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! >> >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an >> attachment >>> in the forum) >> >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? >> >> Martin >> >> Dear Martin, >> >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing >> a poster as a group, they >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to >> create 'their part of the poster', >> >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I >> made my poster' (contribution to the >> >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader >> divides the work of the poster into >> >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to >> assign these topics to the other >> >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being >> created - moving from student to >> >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the >> dialogue shows evidence that the >> >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about >> what gets written, and in >> >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters >> are printed and put on the wall >> >> ready for presenting. >> >> >> >> >> Mark, >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: >> >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle >> use) Please give me your opinion. >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" >> >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to >> the previous turn? >> >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. >> >> -greg >> >> Dear Greg, >> >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to >> get developed, the leader of >> >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided >> >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some >> information, but now student C takes that poster >> >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). >> So the poster begins to get built by adding >> >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. >> >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that >> begins to link the different topics together. >> >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly >> >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. >> >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to >> >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to >> the forum as changes are made. >> >> >> >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to >> >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. >> >> Warm regards, >> >> Mark >> > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:07:30 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Perhaps, Henry. I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a single activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the additional apparatus. mike On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Mike, > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my own > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not ignorance, > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > Henry > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Mark -- > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > am > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > > with my understanding. > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > form > > disparate people! > > > > mike > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > wrote: > > > >> Hello! > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > >> > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > >> below each of your messages. > >> > >> > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> I think the issue is really complex. > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > >> presentation > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > create > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > >> the > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > >> poster means a better grade). > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > >> changing each other's > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > >> the dialogue you > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > >> for progressive > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > theory. > >> > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > >> interesting stuff on this. > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> Hello Michael, > >> > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > >> but as they are doing this, > >> > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > >> data are facts concerning pet > >> > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > >> > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > >> them. So although the dialogue > >> > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > >> not shown in my short example), > >> > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > >> is influence of content, content added > >> > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > >> > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Mark > >> > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > >> Mike > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > >> offer. > >> > >> Carol > >> > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > >> > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > >> in the forums, and came up > >> > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > >> thinking came from reading > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > >> as learners are working on their > >> > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > >> > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > >> > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > >> > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > >> (tools-and-results activity). > >> > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > >> data. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > >>> > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > >> > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > >> > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > >> attachment > >>> in the forum) > >> > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> Dear Martin, > >> > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > >> a poster as a group, they > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > >> create 'their part of the poster', > >> > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > >> > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > >> divides the work of the poster into > >> > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > >> assign these topics to the other > >> > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > >> created - moving from student to > >> > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > >> > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > >> what gets written, and in > >> > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > >> are printed and put on the wall > >> > >> ready for presenting. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mark, > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > >> > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > bottle > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > >> > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates > to > >> the previous turn? > >> > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > unclear > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > >> > >> -greg > >> > >> Dear Greg, > >> > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > >> get developed, the leader of > >> > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > >> > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > >> > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > >> > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > >> > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > >> begins to link the different topics together. > >> > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > >> > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > >> > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > >> > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > >> the forum as changes are made. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > >> > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > >> > >> Warm regards, > >> > >> Mark > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:25:11 -0400 From: Christopher Schuck Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose work partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity system? On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > Perhaps, Henry. > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a single > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > additional apparatus. > > mike > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > > > Mike, > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > own > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > ignorance, > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > between > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > > am > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > accords > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > > form > > > disparate people! > > > > > > mike > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello! > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > >> > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > >> below each of your messages. > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > >> presentation > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type > of > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > > create > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to > use > > >> the > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > >> poster means a better grade). > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > >> changing each other's > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > >> the dialogue you > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > > >> for progressive > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > theory. > > >> > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> > > >> Hello Michael, > > >> > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > > >> but as they are doing this, > > >> > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > >> > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > >> > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > >> > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > >> not shown in my short example), > > >> > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > >> is influence of content, content added > > >> > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > >> > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Mark > > >> > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > >> Mike > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have > to > > >> offer. > > >> > > >> Carol > > >> > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > >> > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > >> in the forums, and came up > > >> > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > >> thinking came from reading > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > > >> as learners are working on their > > >> > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > >> > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > >> > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > >> > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > >> > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of > the > > >> data. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > > But > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > >> > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > >> > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > >> attachment > > >>> in the forum) > > >> > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > >> > > >> Martin > > >> > > >> Dear Martin, > > >> > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > > >> a poster as a group, they > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > >> > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > >> > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > >> > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > >> assign these topics to the other > > >> > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > >> created - moving from student to > > >> > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > >> > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > > >> what gets written, and in > > >> > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > >> > > >> ready for presenting. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Mark, > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > >> > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in > our > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > bottle > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > > file > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > >> > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or > was > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce > to > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > something > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > students > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates > > to > > >> the previous turn? > > >> > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > > unclear > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > about > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > >> > > >> -greg > > >> > > >> Dear Greg, > > >> > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > >> get developed, the leader of > > >> > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > >> > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > >> > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > >> > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > >> > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > >> > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > >> > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > >> > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > >> > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > >> > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > >> > > >> Warm regards, > > >> > > >> Mark > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:18:33 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Interesting question, Christopher. Maybe an expert will have the answer! mike On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Christopher Schuck < schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose work > partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been > discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the > introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or > would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity > system? > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Perhaps, Henry. > > > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a > single > > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > > additional apparatus. > > > > mike > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > > wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not > mistaken, > > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > > own > > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On > the > > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education > in > > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the > zone > > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > > ignorance, > > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > > between > > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. > Perhaps I > > > am > > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > > accords > > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of > it > > > form > > > > disparate people! > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer < > mark.yomogi@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hello! > > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > > >> > > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > > >> below each of your messages. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Mark, > > > >> > > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > > >> presentation > > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the > type > > of > > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > > > create > > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to > > use > > > >> the > > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > > >> poster means a better grade). > > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > > >> changing each other's > > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > > >> the dialogue you > > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented > thinking, > > > >> for progressive > > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > > theory. > > > >> > > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hello Michael, > > > >> > > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the > poster, > > > >> but as they are doing this, > > > >> > > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > > >> > > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > > >> > > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop > using > > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > > >> > > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > > >> not shown in my short example), > > > >> > > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should > be > > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > > >> is influence of content, content added > > > >> > > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. > The > > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > > >> > > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, > they > > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Mark > > > >> > > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > > >> Mike > > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of > labour, > > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your > situation, > > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss > to > > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might > have > > to > > > >> offer. > > > >> > > > >> Carol > > > >> > > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > > >> > > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > > >> in the forums, and came up > > > >> > > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > > >> thinking came from reading > > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by > Engestrom, > > > >> as learners are working on their > > > >> > > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > > >> > > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to > show > > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > > >> > > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > > >> > > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > > >> > > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of > > the > > > >> data. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple > case. > > > But > > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > >> > > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > >> > > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > > >> attachment > > > >>> in the forum) > > > >> > > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > >> > > > >> Martin > > > >> > > > >> Dear Martin, > > > >> > > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are > developing > > > >> a poster as a group, they > > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > > >> > > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to > 'I > > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > > >> > > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > > >> > > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > > >> assign these topics to the other > > > >> > > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > > >> created - moving from student to > > > >> > > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > > >> > > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions > about > > > >> what gets written, and in > > > >> > > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > > >> > > > >> ready for presenting. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Mark, > > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > >> > > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in > > our > > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > > bottle > > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' > (poster4 > > > file > > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > >> > > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or > > was > > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce > > to > > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > > something > > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > > students > > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn > relates > > > to > > > >> the previous turn? > > > >> > > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > > > unclear > > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > > about > > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > >> > > > >> -greg > > > >> > > > >> Dear Greg, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > > >> get developed, the leader of > > > >> > > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running > though > > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > > >> > > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > > >> > > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already > there). > > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > > >> > > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > > >> > > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > > >> > > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > > >> > > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, > etc, > > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > > >> > > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned > (although > > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > > >> > > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it > to > > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > > >> > > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would > be > > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > > >> > > > >> Warm regards, > > > >> > > > >> Mark > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > > object > > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:03:18 -0600 From: Greg Thompson Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Small point here Mark about the 5/6 transition, but as an American English speaker, and given the further clarification that you just provided, I feel like Student C's comment in 6 is lacking something about how to connect it to what came before. I would have expected some kind of linking clause or transition like "[to student B] that's a great idea. I am attaching a poster..." I would suggest two possibilities for why this didn't happen: 1a. this is a metapragmatic difference between their native tongue and English. 1b. they don't have the linguistic resources to accomplish this kind of bridging (although "that's a great idea seems grammatically and semantically simple enough that I would assume that, based on their other utterances, would have been easy enough to produce). 2. It is unnecessary given the medium in which they are working (i.e., the collaborative nature of Student C's comment in 6 is obvious given what has come before). Of course there may be others, but each of these options point to how collaboration is mediated by the means of communication (whether the means are metapragmatics, linguistic resources, or the medium of communication). That doesn't get you to 3rd gen activity theory but it seems to be something that is old school activity theory. It seems to be clearly there in the data. What's more, it is this aspect of collaboration that is entirely left out of many models of collaboration (see the virtual communication system that Mike sent an email about shortly ago). Just one thought among many. -greg On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:00 PM, Mark de Boer wrote: > Hello! > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > below each of your messages. > > > Hi Mark, > > I think the issue is really complex. > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > presentation > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > the > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > poster means a better grade). > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > changing each other's > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > the dialogue you > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > for progressive > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > interesting stuff on this. > Take a look at some of their articles. > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > but as they are doing this, > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > data are facts concerning pet > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > them. So although the dialogue > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > not shown in my short example), > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > done, what message should be put in the poster, > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > is influence of content, content added > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > offer. > > Carol > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > in the forums, and came up > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > thinking came from reading > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > as learners are working on their > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > (tools-and-results activity). > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > data. > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > Dear Martin, > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > a poster as a group, they > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > create 'their part of the poster', > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > made my poster' (contribution to the > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > divides the work of the poster into > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > assign these topics to the other > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > created - moving from student to > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > dialogue shows evidence that the > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > what gets written, and in > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > are printed and put on the wall > > ready for presenting. > > > > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > Dear Greg, > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > get developed, the leader of > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > information, but now student C takes that poster > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > begins to link the different topics together. > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > the forum as changes are made. > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > Warm regards, > > Mark > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:20:10 -0700 From: mike cole Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" A job Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Connell, Deborah A* Date: Tuesday, 16 August 2016 Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv To: "cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org" Cc: "Connell, Deborah A" Hello: I would like to post the attached faculty position on your Listserv. I have also included the text within this email. If you need a name of someone in good standing, you can refer to Dr. Julie Fiez. Please let me know if there is any other information that you need. Thank you! Best, Debbie *------------------------------* *Deborah Connell* Assistant to Daniel S. Shaw, Chairman ? Department of Psychology University of Pittsburgh ? 210 South Bouquet Street 3129 Sennott Square ? Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Phone: 412-624-4337 ------------------------------ The Department of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh announces a tenure track position at the *Assistant Professor* level, pending budgetary approval, for an individual with a program of research focusing on* developmental psychology*. Outstanding candidates with strong expertise in prenatal, infant, child, and/or adolescent development will be considered with a strong theoretical orientation, with emphasis in any of the following areas especially welcomed: ? Socioemotional, cognitive (including attention), or social-cognitive development, including problematic or non-normative development ? Epigenetic influences ? Developmental neuroscience (cognitive or affective) ? Advanced quantitative expertise; or who use neuroimaging or physiological methods; or who conduct applied or policy-relevant research ? As the ability to complement and extend the current strengths of the Psychology Department is also essential, optimal candidates should have cross-disciplinary interests that intersect with other departmental program areas. The Psychology Department (http://www.psychology.pitt.edu) is committed to excellence in research and in teaching at both the graduate and undergraduate levels. The Department has 38 tenure-stream faculty and houses five graduate training programs: Biological and Health, Clinical, Cognitive, Developmental, and Social, along with cross-program training opportunities. The interdisciplinary nature of psychological science is reflected in both faculty research interests and collaborations and training options afforded to graduate students. The review of applications will begin immediately, with complete applications received by October 15, 2016 receiving full consideration. Applications should be submitted electronically by sending a cover letter, CV, statements of research and teaching interests, three letters of recommendation, and up to three representative publications to *psyrecr@pitt.edu *. The subject heading of recommendation letters should include the applicant?s last name and the word Recommendation*.* Inquiries regarding the position can be addressed to the Chair of the Search Committee, Professor Jana Iverson ( jiverson@pitt.edu ). The University of Pittsburgh is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer and values equality of opportunity, human dignity and diversity. EEO/AA/M/F/Vets/Disabled. -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DevelopmentalAd.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 368008 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160819/ced68294/attachment.pdf ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ xmca-l mailing list xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l End of xmca-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 3 ************************************* From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 19 09:10:59 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:10:59 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Unsubscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To unsubscribe from xmca, follow the directions on the same website where you subscribed: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/ mike cole On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Kathy-Ann Daniel-Gittens wrote: > > > Kathy-ann Daniel-Gittens, Ph.D. > > Email: kdaniel@wayne.edu > > Phone: 407-790-6432 > > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu edu> > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:22 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: xmca-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 3 > > Send xmca-l mailing list submissions to > xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l > xmca-l Info Page > mailman.ucsd.edu > XMCA-L@UCSD.EDU The mailing list for the eXtended Mind, Culture Activity > group. [Subscribe the XMCA community mailing list] [Unsubscribe] [Visit the > XMCA List Archive ... > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > xmca-l-owner@mailman.ucsd.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of xmca-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: "English" as a school subject (David Kellogg) > 2. Re: "English" as a school subject (Shirley Franklin) > 3. Re: "English" as a school subject (Laure Kloetzer) > 4. Re: "English" as a school subject (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) > 5. Re: "English" as a school subject (Stephen Walsh) > 6. 3rd generation activity theory (Mark de Boer) > 7. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Glassman, Michael) > 8. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) > 9. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Carol Macdonald) > 10. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Lplarry) > 11. Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Job Posting - Assistant Professor of > Psychology/Educational Psychologist - Rhodes College (mike cole) > 12. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Martin John Packer) > 13. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Greg Thompson) > 14. Re: "English" as a school subject (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) > 15. Re: "English" as a school subject (Stephen Walsh) > 16. Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) > 17. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > (Lakshmi Bandlamudi) > 18. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > (Lakshmi Bandlamudi) > 19. Re: "English" as a school subject (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) > 20. Re: "English" as a school subject (David H Kirshner) > 21. Re: "English" as a school subject (FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN) > 22. Re: "English" as a school subject (David H Kirshner) > 23. Re: "English" as a school subject (Helen Grimmett) > 24. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Martin John Packer) > 25. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Mark de Boer) > 26. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > (Stephen Diaz) > 27. Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > (Stephen Diaz) > 28. Fwd: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration (mike cole) > 29. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Mark de Boer) > 30. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) > 31. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (HENRY SHONERD) > 32. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) > 33. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Christopher Schuck) > 34. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (mike cole) > 35. Re: 3rd generation activity theory (Greg Thompson) > 36. Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv (mike cole) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:25:37 +1000 > From: David Kellogg > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Peter: > > Korean is a mandatory subject in primary schools in Korea, from first grade > through twelfth grade. The curriculum includes grammar, literature, and > even intonation (I attended a smashing lesson on intonation for third > graders a couple of weeks ago). > > Chinese is a mandatory subject in primary schools in China, from first > through twelfth grade. The curriculum starts with learning characters, > calligraphy and simple texts, and then the classics by established writers. > Most university students are also required to take at least one semester of > Chinese. > > A couple of weeks ago I attended a preschool in Seoul where the children > recited the Jeonjamun every morning--that's the one thousand character > Chinese classic that was written in the fifth century. It functions as a > kind of alphabet song, because although it is one thousand characters long > (it takes about four or five thousand characters to be functionally > literate in Chinese) not one character in the whole rhyming text is > repeated. You could tell how long each child had been in the preschool by > watching to see who nodded off when--only the seven year olds who had been > there three years could recite the whole thing from beginning to end. > > David Kellogg > Macquarie University > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > with a question. > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > Language and culture > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:28:23 +0100 > From: Shirley Franklin > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: <80B84DE9-5435-4264-86C5-A9EF8975B984@btinternet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > In England, what is meant by "English" in primary schools tends to be > rather dreadful non contextualised "Literacy" Skills, while in secondary it > becomes more literature-focused with some language. > But the formal assessment assumes it's the same throughout and inspectors > and Government wonder why kids "slip backwards" in secondary English > achievements! > > Shows the idiocy of isolated literacy teaching and of testing. > > Shirley > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 16 Aug 2016, at 11:31, Greg Mcverry wrote: > > > > Peter, > > > > I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in > > India where imperial government officials feared their children were > being > > deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. > > > > I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of > disciplinary > > literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn > to > > read and write. > > > > Greg > > > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > >> > >> Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > >> school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > >> with a question. > >> > >> In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > >> that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > >> rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > >> writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > >> language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > >> ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > >> English by speakers of other languages. > >> > >> My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > >> literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > >> The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > >> Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > >> linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > >> introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing > >> and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > >> Language and culture > >> > >> Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > >> writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > >> If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > >> > >> Thx,Peter > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:13:21 +0200 > From: Laure Kloetzer > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi, > In France & Switzerland, French is an important school subject. Curriculum > includes reading/writing, then later (from 7-8 years old) spelling, some > grammar, vocabulary, and later again (around 11-12) literature (dominantly > French). > Best > LK > > > 2016-08-16 13:28 GMT+02:00 Shirley Franklin : > > > In England, what is meant by "English" in primary schools tends to be > > rather dreadful non contextualised "Literacy" Skills, while in secondary > it > > becomes more literature-focused with some language. > > But the formal assessment assumes it's the same throughout and inspectors > > and Government wonder why kids "slip backwards" in secondary English > > achievements! > > > > Shows the idiocy of isolated literacy teaching and of testing. > > > > Shirley > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On 16 Aug 2016, at 11:31, Greg Mcverry wrote: > > > > > > Peter, > > > > > > I have always heard colloquially that English became a subject first in > > > India where imperial government officials feared their children were > > being > > > deanglicized by the locals. No idea if it's true. > > > > > > I also think English as a subject is evolving with the rise of > > disciplinary > > > literacies as a lens. It is no longer cast as the class where you learn > > to > > > read and write. > > > > > > Greg > > > > > >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 6:26 AM Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > >> school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > systems, > > >> with a question. > > >> > > >> In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > >> that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > >> rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > course), > > >> writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > English > > >> language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > not > > >> ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > >> English by speakers of other languages. > > >> > > >> My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > Russian > > >> literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > >> The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > >> Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > studied > > >> linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > >> introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > writing > > >> and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > >> Language and culture > > >> > > >> Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > >> writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > >> If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > >> > > >> Thx,Peter > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:15:43 -0400 > From: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: <2opbb70b0kica3k8946iiucm.1471349736883@email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > In haiti, > The haitian academy of kreyol has just established kreyol as the medium of > instruction in k-12 education over french.? > The emphasis is on kreyol literature, writing, grammar, and (vodou) > culture. ?Michel de Graffe (MIT professor and member of the academy), via > his MIT initiative, was instrumental in ?consolidating the process. > > > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note? 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Peter Smagorinsky > Date: 8/16/2016 6:24 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity (xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu)" < > xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> > Subject: [Xmca-l] "English" as a school subject > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > with a question. > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking authors, > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the English > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > English by speakers of other languages. > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > Language and culture > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline (literature, > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > Thx,Peter > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:33:31 +0100 > From: Stephen Walsh > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > HI Peter, > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together for > you. > > Best regards, > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > with a question. > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > authors, > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > English > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is not > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you studied > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially writing > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > Language and culture > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > (literature, > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in curriculum)? > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:04:03 +0900 > From: Mark de Boer > Subject: [Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello! > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > out with my question(s). > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are collaboratively > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some information' > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > shared. > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > work. > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > additions to the content. > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > use of the language. > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening > with the data. > > Respectfully, > > Mark > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:22:42 +0000 > From: "Glassman, Michael" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > <3B91542B0D4F274D871B38AA48E991F903C32935@CIO-KRC-D1MBX04. > osuad.osu.edu> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Mark, > > I think the issue is really complex. Are the students using the open > forum to make the poster better for presentation or to advance the thinking > that the poster represents. If it is the first then I don't think you can > think of it as the type of progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for > instance is looking to create through student interactions. It is instead > the students looking to use the technology to advance their needs within > the larger system (a good poster means a better grade). On the other hand > if you can show that the students are really changing each other's thinking > about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from the dialogue you > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, for > progressive development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation > activity theory. > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > interesting stuff on this. Take a look at some of their articles. > > Michael > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Mark de Boer > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:04 AM > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory > > Hello! > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > out with my question(s). > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are > collaboratively working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done > using an online forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are > working in the L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to > investigate pet bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on > their findings. > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an attachment > in the forum) 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some > information' > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) 4. Student > D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) 5. Student > B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our poster > (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in the > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > shared. > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural dialogue, > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of the > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > work. > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, they > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of what > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > additions to the content. > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads it > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in 3. > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the discussions > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to bounce > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second language > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of language > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > use of the language. > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B may > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a suggestion > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is a > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object coupled > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is happening > with the data. > > Respectfully, > > Mark > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:14:07 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > rFdQdw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > > out with my question(s). > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are > collaboratively > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some > information' > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in > the > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > > shared. > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural > dialogue, > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of > the > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > work. > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, > they > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of > what > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > additions to the content. > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads > it > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in > 3. > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the > discussions > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to > bounce > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second > language > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of > language > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > > use of the language. > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B > may > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a > suggestion > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is > a > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object > coupled > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is > happening > > with the data. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Mark > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:29:12 +0200 > From: Carol Macdonald > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > offer. > > Carol > > On 16 August 2016 at 17:14, mike cole wrote: > > > Hi Mark > > > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > Mike > > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can > help > > > out with my question(s). > > > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are > > collaboratively > > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an > online > > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in > the > > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, > some > > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their > poster. > > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > attachment > > > in the forum) > > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some > > information' > > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > bottle > > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > > file > > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in > > the > > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files > being > > > shared. > > > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural > > dialogue, > > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this > is > > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of > > the > > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > > work. > > > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes > the > > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, > > they > > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of > > what > > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to > present, > > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes > a > > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created > also > > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, > 4, > > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > > additions to the content. > > > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and > uploads > > it > > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is > a > > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, > but > > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason > for > > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in > > 3. > > > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the > > discussions > > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object > of > > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as > the > > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit > to > > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to > > bounce > > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second > > language > > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of > > language > > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not > the > > > use of the language. > > > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, > instances > > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are > they > > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B > > may > > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a > > suggestion > > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload > it. > > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language > learning > > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this > is > > a > > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object > > coupled > > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning > environment. > > > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is > > happening > > > with the data. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > -- > Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin) > Developmental psycholinguist > Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa > alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:38:00 -0700 > From: Lplarry > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: Mark de Boer , "xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu" > > Message-ID: <57b33365.4ae7420a.b32bd.1cc3@mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mark, > I may be going way off course in my stream of thought creating an ox-bow > formation that is irrelevant in this stream of your reflections and > questions. If so just ignore my think-aloud. > > In recent posts if you were listening in to Rien Raud?s exploration of > *ity* your theme can be seen to circulate between specific/ity and > general/ity in the dynamics of creating objective/ity. > > To construct the (object) of activity are you creating objectives? Are > these objectives developing THROUGH the process of objective/ity? > You want to show or demonstrate that there are a number (count *them*) of > activity systems at work. > > Content pushes dialogue & dialogue pushes content? > > Is there also *pulling* dynamics *drawing* us to become absorbed or > enter into a number of *systems*. > > My question hinges on the > * permeability* of each of these (systems) that are demarcating the > topography or structure of each (specific) system. What we (place) inside a > particular system that occurs with systematic/ity *in order to* make sense > of the many activity systems that are creating (producing, constructing) > the *object* as our objective. The objects particular *objective/ity* that > develops within this dynamic process. > I will pause here and leave my stream of thought as an ox-bow phenomena > cut off from the source of this flow of dialogue and joint participation. > The exploration of the relation of (objects) and objectives and > (objective/ity) > THROUGH a number of permeable demarcations. > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: Mark de Boer > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:20:54 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Job Posting - Assistant Professor > of Psychology/Educational Psychologist - Rhodes College > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > *Assistant Professor of Psychology/Educational Psychologist. *The > Psychology > Department at Rhodes College > invites applications for a tenure-track position. > The successful candidate must possess a firm commitment to teaching, > scholarship, and service at a liberal arts college. Preference will be > given to candidates who have demonstrated commitments to urban education > and working with historically marginalized populations. Teaching > responsibilities will include five courses a year from the following: > introductory psychology, educational psychology, child and/or adolescent > development, learning and motivation, advanced research methods in > psychology, and upper-level research and seminar courses in the candidate?s > research area. Previous teaching experience is desirable. Candidates must > have completed all requirements for a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology or a > related field by July 2017. A number of interdisciplinary fields yield > graduates who would be appropriate for this position (e.g., Liberal Studies > in Urban Childhood, Interdisciplinary Human Development, Educational > Science programs). The successful candidate will contribute to an > interdisciplinary Educational Studies > major, will be expected to establish and maintain an active program of > research involving undergraduates, and to participate in the life of the > College. Research opportunities will be supported by startup funds, lab > space, and by Rhodes partnerships with the Shelby County School district > and other educational institutions in the city. > > Founded in 1848, Rhodes College is a highly selective, private, > residential, undergraduate college, located in Memphis, Tennessee. We > aspire to graduate students with a lifelong passion for learning, a > compassion for others, and the ability to translate academic study and > personal concern into effective leadership and action in their communities > and the world. We encourage applications from candidates interested in > helping us achieve this vision > . > > > > Rhodes College values an inclusive and welcoming environment. We are an > equal opportunity employer committed to diversity > in the workforce. > > > > Memphis has a metropolitan population of over one million and provides > multiple opportunities for research and for cultural and recreational > activities . > > > > Please apply online at jobs.rhodes.edu; only online applications will be > accepted. A complete application includes a cover letter, a CV, a > statement of teaching philosophy, a research plan, and three letters of > recommendation. Please address in your cover letter your interest in > teaching at a liberal arts college and how your experiences with teaching, > scholarship, and/or service might contribute to a college community that > includes a commitment to diversity as one of its core values. Review of > completed applications will begin on October 1 and continue until the > position is filled. The online application system will solicit letters of > recommendation electronically from the candidate?s recommenders once their > contact information has been entered by the candidate and the search > committee requests them. Background checks are required before candidates > can be brought to campus for interviews. For further information please > contact Dr. Katherine White, whitek@rhodes.edu > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > > Sean Hardwick > > Departmental Assistant > > Anthropology & Sociology and Psychology > > Rhodes College > > 2000 North Parkway > > Memphis, TN 38112 > > (901) 843-3930 > > hardwicks@rhodes.edu ');> > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:28:27 +0000 > From: Martin John Packer > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:59:58 -0600 > From: Greg Thompson > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Martin John Packer < > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote: > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > > > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > attachment > > > in the forum) > > > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:52:39 -0400 > From: "FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What are > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among Irish > citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If it > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together > for > > you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education systems, > > > with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate course), > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > not > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of Russian > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > studied > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > writing > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:08:52 +0100 > From: Stephen Walsh > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Francis, > > Yes - Irish is doing ok. My Irish is poor but my daughter is fluent. She, > and many people her age (she's a teenager), go to Irish language schools > and that, in my view, has given the language a real boost. > > Stephen > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM, FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > wrote: > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > are > > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > Irish > > citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form the > > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If > it > > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info together > > for > > > you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > systems, > > > > with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > course), > > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > not > > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language of > > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > Russian > > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > studied > > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > writing > > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > > Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:19:04 +0000 > From: Ana Marjanovic-Shane > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad > seminar > To: "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov > > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear XMCAers? > > > > Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural > Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? > actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the > end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic > governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be > late. > > > > Take care, > > > > Eugene > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > > Associate Professor of Education > > Chestnut Hill College > > phone: 267-334-2905 > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Opening Syllabus for EDUC 855.16F, Sociocultural Theories in > Education, grad seminar, 2016-08-15.docx > Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument. > wordprocessingml.document > Size: 74466 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/ > attachments/20160816/e5978c10/attachment-0001.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) > From: Lakshmi Bandlamudi > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: > grad seminar > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , > "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov > > Message-ID: > <307206405.15759682.1471372972582.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello, > Although I have not contributed to the discussions, I follow them quite > diligently, and recent discussions prompted me to bring to your attention > my recently?published book and the details are given below. I thought there > might be some?Bakhtin enthusiasts in this group. > > > Difference, Dialogue, and Development?is an in-depth exploration of the > collected works of Mikhail Bakhtin to find relevance of key concepts of > dialogism for understanding various aspects of human development. Taking > the reality of differences in the world as a given, Bandlamudi argues that > such a reality necessitates dialogue, and actively responding to that > necessity leads to development. The varied works of Bakhtin that span > several decades passing through the most tumultuous period in Russian > history, are brought under one banner of three D?s ? Difference, Dialogue > and Development ? and the composite features of the three D?s emerge as > leitmotifs in every chapter. > > > ? > > In an ocean of Bakhtiniana, this is a fresh voice.? Lakshmi Bandlamudi? > brings together the disparate works Bakhtin wrote over a long lifetime in a > reading that adds ?Development? to the usual ?Ds?(Dialog, Difference) in > Bakhtin studies.? In so doing, she adds another dimension to the heteronomy > called ?Bakhtin?. Michael Holquist. Yale University. > > > > ? > > ? > Lakshmi Bandlamudi?s?Difference, Dialogue, and Development?has to rank > among the very best, certainly the clearest, most astute expositions of > Michail Bakhtin?s writings. Her aim is not simply to explicate the Russian > thinker?s wide-ranging, at times seemingly contradictory, essays but to > depict his worldview and the ethical implications that derive from his > commitment to the ever-shifting dialogical dimensions of human life ? to > encounters that resist definition, as definition is demanded. Bandlamudi > accepts, indeed elaborates, the challenges to the staid visions of the > human sciences that Bakhtin poses. As such she challenges those same staid > assumptions that govern so much of our lives. Her work is transformative. > Vincent Crapanzano. Distinguished Professor of Comparative Literature and > Anthropology. Graduate Center, CUNY? > > > ? > Also, here are the chapter headings: > > > ? > CONTENTS > > ? > > Preface > > ?Acknowledgements > > ?Chapter 1. Introduction: Dialogue = Development > > ?Chapter 2. The Novel & The Hero: Developmental Narrative & The Developing > Subject > > ?Chapter 3. Creative Living and Aesthetic Vision:?Cultivating Finer > Sensibilities > > ?Chapter 4. Carnivalization of Consciousness: A Catalyst for Development > > ?Chapter 5. Authoring the Self ? Answering the Other:?Epistemological > Necessities and Ethical Obligations > > ?Chapter 6. Dialogic Method for Human Sciences:?Between the Message Giver > ? Message ? Messenger ? and Message Receiver > > ?Chapter 7. Differences as the Will to Power and Freedom to Choose > > > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:20 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane < > anamshane@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear XMCAers? > > > > Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural > Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? > actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the > end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic > governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be > late. > > > > Take care, > > > > Eugene > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > > Associate Professor of Education > > Chestnut Hill College > > phone: 267-334-2905 > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 9781138805927.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 85797 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/ > attachments/20160816/a485a195/attachment-0002.jpg > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) > From: Lakshmi Bandlamudi > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: > grad seminar > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , > "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov > > Message-ID: > <307206405.15759682.1471372972582.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello, > Although I have not contributed to the discussions, I follow them quite > diligently, and recent discussions prompted me to bring to your attention > my recently?published book and the details are given below. I thought there > might be some?Bakhtin enthusiasts in this group. > > > Difference, Dialogue, and Development?is an in-depth exploration of the > collected works of Mikhail Bakhtin to find relevance of key concepts of > dialogism for understanding various aspects of human development. Taking > the reality of differences in the world as a given, Bandlamudi argues that > such a reality necessitates dialogue, and actively responding to that > necessity leads to development. The varied works of Bakhtin that span > several decades passing through the most tumultuous period in Russian > history, are brought under one banner of three D?s ? Difference, Dialogue > and Development ? and the composite features of the three D?s emerge as > leitmotifs in every chapter. > > > ? > > In an ocean of Bakhtiniana, this is a fresh voice.? Lakshmi Bandlamudi? > brings together the disparate works Bakhtin wrote over a long lifetime in a > reading that adds ?Development? to the usual ?Ds?(Dialog, Difference) in > Bakhtin studies.? In so doing, she adds another dimension to the heteronomy > called ?Bakhtin?. Michael Holquist. Yale University. > > > > ? > > ? > Lakshmi Bandlamudi?s?Difference, Dialogue, and Development?has to rank > among the very best, certainly the clearest, most astute expositions of > Michail Bakhtin?s writings. Her aim is not simply to explicate the Russian > thinker?s wide-ranging, at times seemingly contradictory, essays but to > depict his worldview and the ethical implications that derive from his > commitment to the ever-shifting dialogical dimensions of human life ? to > encounters that resist definition, as definition is demanded. Bandlamudi > accepts, indeed elaborates, the challenges to the staid visions of the > human sciences that Bakhtin poses. As such she challenges those same staid > assumptions that govern so much of our lives. Her work is transformative. > Vincent Crapanzano. Distinguished Professor of Comparative Literature and > Anthropology. Graduate Center, CUNY? > > > ? > Also, here are the chapter headings: > > > ? > CONTENTS > > ? > > Preface > > ?Acknowledgements > > ?Chapter 1. Introduction: Dialogue = Development > > ?Chapter 2. The Novel & The Hero: Developmental Narrative & The Developing > Subject > > ?Chapter 3. Creative Living and Aesthetic Vision:?Cultivating Finer > Sensibilities > > ?Chapter 4. Carnivalization of Consciousness: A Catalyst for Development > > ?Chapter 5. Authoring the Self ? Answering the Other:?Epistemological > Necessities and Ethical Obligations > > ?Chapter 6. Dialogic Method for Human Sciences:?Between the Message Giver > ? Message ? Messenger ? and Message Receiver > > ?Chapter 7. Differences as the Will to Power and Freedom to Choose > > > > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:20 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane < > anamshane@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear XMCAers? > > > > Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus ?Sociocultural > Theories in Education.? Attached please find my ?final draft? of it ? > actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the > end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic > governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won?t be > late. > > > > Take care, > > > > Eugene > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > > Associate Professor of Education > > Chestnut Hill College > > phone: 267-334-2905 > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 9781138805927.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 85797 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/ > attachments/20160816/a485a195/attachment-0003.jpg > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:49:29 -0400 > From: "FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > Mei04d8rBUs3Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > As someone who has always identified as an Irish American (no hyphen), I am > so glad to hear this. Thank you for responding. > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact > measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. > > Frederick Douglass > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > Hi Francis, > > > > Yes - Irish is doing ok. My Irish is poor but my daughter is fluent. > She, > > and many people her age (she's a teenager), go to Irish language schools > > and that, in my view, has given the language a real boost. > > > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:52 PM, FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN < > fsulliva@temple.edu> > > wrote: > > > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > > are > > > the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > > Irish > > > citizens? > > > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > > Associate Professor > > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > > College of Education > > > Temple University > > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > > wrote: > > > > > > > HI Peter, > > > > e > > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > the > > > > beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. If > > it > > > > would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > together > > > for > > > > you. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Stephen > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > public > > > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > systems, > > > > > with a question. > > > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > > "English" > > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > > authors, > > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > course), > > > > > writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study (of the > > > > English > > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > is > > > not > > > > > ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the language > of > > > > > English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > Russian > > > > > literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the following: > > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > studied > > > > > linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third component was > > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > writing > > > > > and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, like Dutch > > > > > Language and culture > > > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > > (literature, > > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > > curriculum)? > > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:15:55 +0000 > From: David H Kirshner > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > namprd06.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and now is > spoken mainly in western Scotland. > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys in a > Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute drive > whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > Irish citizens? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > wrote: > > > HI Peter, > > e > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > together for you. > > > > Best regards, > > Stephen > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > wrote: > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > > systems, with a question. > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called "English" > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > authors, > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study > > > (of the > > English > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > > not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > following: > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > component was > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > (literature, > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > curriculum)? > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:04:53 -0400 > From: "FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or > "Englic"? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact > measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. > > Frederick Douglass > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and now > is > > spoken mainly in western Scotland. > > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys in a > > Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute drive > > whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? What > > are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken language among > > Irish citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > > together for you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with public > > > > school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) education > > > > systems, with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language study > > > > (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject is > > > > not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > > following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > > component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:51:17 +0000 > From: David H Kirshner > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > namprd06.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > All I can figure is that the prosody of Gaelic and deeply Scottish-accent > English is nearly identical. > So, no code switching, just 3 guys having a conversation among themselves. > It sounded like I should understand what they were saying, but I couldn't > quite put the phonemes together into lexical items. > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:05 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or > "Englic"? > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Teaching and Learning > College of Education > Temple University > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact > measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. > > Frederick Douglass > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner wrote: > > > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and > > now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. > > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys > > in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute > > drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? > > What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken > > language among Irish citizens? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > wrote: > > > > > HI Peter, > > > e > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > > together for you. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Stephen > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > > > > public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) > > > > education systems, with a question. > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > "English" > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > authors, > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > > > > study (of the > > > English > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > > > > is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > > following: > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > > component was > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > (literature, > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > curriculum)? > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:48:59 +1000 > From: Helen Grimmett > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > My Scottish neighbour Rab is a builder, and when he showed up briefly on > our Australian home reno reality TV series "The Block" they put subtitles > up every time he spoke because his accent was so thick! My husband and I > were wishing that this facility was available in real life for our 'over > the fence' conversations! I understand completely David your feeling that > you should understand what is being said, but not having the foggiest idea > what is going on. > > Sorry Peter, we seem to have derailed your thread... > > In Australia, English is much as you describe (the tripod) and is > compulsory through to Year 12. However, in recent times (at least in the > state of Victoria), Year 11 & 12 students can now choose between > 'mainstream' English (the tripod), Literature (mostly text analysis), > English Language (the 'science' of language and language acquisition) or > English as an Additional Language (for students with less than 7 years > instruction in English speaking schools - except in the case of indigenous > and hearing-impaired students) to meet this compulsory requirement. > All schools teach mainstream English, most would offer Literature and EAL > if they have enough students wanting to do them, but relatively few offer > English Language. > > Cheers, > Helen > > -- > *Dr HELEN GRIMMETT * > Lecturer in Primary and Early Years Education > Professional Experience Liaison - Primary > > *Education* > Monash University > Room 159, Building 902, Berwick Campus > 100 Clyde Road > Berwick VIC 3806 > Australia > > T: +61 3 9904 7171 > E: helen.grimmett@monash.edu > monash.edu > > *Recent work:* > Helen Grimmett (2016): The Problem of ?Just Tell Us?: Insights from Playing > with Poetic Inquiry and Dialogical Self Theory, *Studying Teacher > Education*, > DOI: 10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 > http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17425964.2016.1143810 > > Helen Grimmett (2014), The Practice of Teachers' Professional Development: > A Cultural-Historical Approach > professional-learning-1/the-practice-of-teachers-professional-development/ > > > , > Rotterdam: Sense Publishers > > > > > On 17 August 2016 at 08:51, David H Kirshner wrote: > > > All I can figure is that the prosody of Gaelic and deeply Scottish-accent > > English is nearly identical. > > So, no code switching, just 3 guys having a conversation among > themselves. > > It sounded like I should understand what they were saying, but I couldn't > > quite put the phonemes together into lexical items. > > David > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:05 PM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > > > Wow, so were the code-switching? Should we coin the term "Gaelish" or > > "Englic"? > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > College of Education > > Temple University > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > > > Find out what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact > > measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. > > > > Frederick Douglass > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David H Kirshner > wrote: > > > > > Gaelic was brought from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries AD and > > > now is spoken mainly in western Scotland. > > > I was picked up hitchhiking in Scotland many years ago by three guys > > > in a Volkswagen, and could not tell for the duration of the 30 minute > > > drive whether they were conversing in English or Gaelic. > > > David > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of FRANCIS J. SULLIVAN > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 12:53 PM > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "English" as a school subject > > > > > > And isn't it also true that "Irish" (Is that the same as "Gaelic"? > > > What are the differences?) has mad a real comeback as a spoken > > > language among Irish citizens? > > > > > > Francis J. Sullivan, Ph.D. > > > Associate Professor > > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > > College of Education > > > Temple University > > > Philadelphia, PA 19122 > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Walsh > > > wrote: > > > > > > > HI Peter, > > > > e > > > > In Ireland all schoolchildren study 'Irish'. It is compulsory form > > > > the beginning of primary education to the end of secondary education. > > > > If it would be helpful to have more detail I can put some more info > > > > together for you. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Stephen > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Peter Smagorinsky > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, I'm writing mainly to my colleagues who are familiar with > > > > > public school, pre-university (what we call K-12 in the US) > > > > > education systems, with a question. > > > > > > > > > > In English-speaking nations, there is a school subject called > > "English" > > > > > that involves the study of literature (much from English-speaking > > > > authors, > > > > > rather than "world literature" which may have its own separate > > > > > course), writing (or now, multimodal composing), and language > > > > > study (of the > > > > English > > > > > language, often in the form of grammar instruction). This subject > > > > > is not ESL, EFL, TESOL, or other way of describing learning the > > > > > language of English by speakers of other languages. > > > > > > > > > > My question: I know that in Russia there are school subjects of > > > > > Russian literature and language; in the Netherlands there is the > > > following: > > > > > The Study Dutch Language & Literature (Dutch: Nederlandse Taal- en > > > > > Letterkunde) can be found at each Dutch university. Formerly you > > > > > studied linguistics and literature, from about 1975 a third > > > > > component was > > > > > introduced: Taalbeheersing (Dutch for language skills, especially > > > > > writing and argumentation). Nowadays the studies have new names, > > > > > like Dutch Language and culture > > > > > > > > > > Do other nations dedicate a school subject to this discipline > > > > (literature, > > > > > writing, language study in L1 and generally nationalistic in > > > curriculum)? > > > > > If so, what is it called, and what does it comprise? > > > > > > > > > > Thx,Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 02:53:03 +0000 > From: Martin John Packer > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: <452899F5-04C3-4BA1-992D-E247EFF3D97C@uniandes.edu.co> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mark, > > I think what Greg and I are each pointing towards is that a line-by-line > analysis, *guided* by theory, is going to provide more insight into what is > going on than an attempt to ?prove? that it is one or another theoretical > ?category' of dialogue. > > Martin > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Greg Thompson > wrote: > > > > Mark, > > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > > the previous turn? > > > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > unclear > > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > > -greg > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Martin John Packer < > > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> wrote: > > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > >>> > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > >> > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > >> > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > >> attachment > >>> in the forum) > >> > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:36:12 +0900 > From: Mark de Boer > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: Lplarry , xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Message-ID: > T+b5wFQ3Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Larry, > > Thank you for your reply. > I'm not creating objectives per se, the objective of the activity is for > the learners to decide what to do. Inevitably, they need to give a poster > presentation, a powerpoint presentation and a report on their findings. The > topic is laid out with the rest up to them. I let them be students with > very little interference from me. > > I wanted to observe their collaboration, I use this term in the sense of > their working together towards a common goal. They need to decide what to > research, their schedule, what to present. What I observe is what they do > with the language, how they share information, how they 'assess' each > other, and what they do to move their 'object' to completion. Much like any > other research on dynamic assessment, I want to understand their process, > but in my case, sans teacher and without the focus on grammar. > > I've been along the track of Engestrom's expansive learning, viewing their > movements as (based on Engestrom's 5 principles) 'an artifact-mediated and > object-oriented activity system, seen in its network relations to other > activity systems' and 'a multi -voicedness' and 'the central role of > contradictions'. (I don't have Engestrom's 1999 Keynote address Changing > practice through research: Changing research through practice, so I cannot > expand much further than cited sources). > > If you want to view the object (the improvable object) as something that > permeates between systems, then it would serve to view each individual > learner as their own system, but part of a larger system. (attached). > Because of the learner's different perspectives, mediation is important. > They are constructing a shared object, (later they diverge as one of the > group members specifically divides the topics up and assigns them to > individual members - yet the objects come together at the end). If a > metaphor could describe this, it could be pictured as a group of students > sitting around a table sharing ideas. One puts an idea down on the table, > another one picks it up (or all of them), makes comments, adds information, > and puts it down again. As they do this they 'say something'. In some cases > the idea is returned to table without changes, but comments suggest changes > and the changes are made. The students have their own access to sources of > information, they can discuss information with the group or research > information elsewhere. It is a very open dynamic environment with the > object at the center. No one needs to say anything really, they can just > pass the document back and forth. But that is not what happens. And this is > not an isolated case, all groups (11 groups in all) behaved in the same > way. And looking over a number of years, each year, the presentations and > reports are completely different, but the learners go through the same > process. > > As I have argued, the focus is on the object, not who is doing what, but > what is being done. The object is key to how they communicate or > collaborate. You might be able to say that there are pulling dynamics, the > dynamics of the group with impending deadlines force the learners to > collaborate, but the dialogue is very specific. The learners are very > detailed about what they discuss, what changes were made, what needs to be > done. I've also brought Feuerstein's MLE into the equation, because it > needs to be argued that they are 'interactionists', assessing each other > through their perspectives, and assisting each other in developing both > language and skills. The text in the forums, the text in the object that > they are building are just different modalities. But these different > modalities end up serving the other. I'm not sure if 'permeable > demarcations' is something that can be applied here. > > My perspective may be very narrow, but without much collaboration with the > outside world on this topic, I may have developed a slight tunnel vision. > Hence my plea to the xmca list. Every aspect I examine always seems to > bring me back to the same place I started. > > Mark > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Lplarry wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > I may be going way off course in my stream of thought creating an ox-bow > > formation that is irrelevant in this stream of your reflections and > > questions. If so just ignore my think-aloud. > > > > > > > > In recent posts if you were listening in to Rien Raud?s exploration of * > > *ity** your theme can be seen to circulate between specific/ity and > > general/ity in the dynamics of creating objective/ity. > > > > > > > > To construct the (object) of activity are you creating objectives? Are > > these objectives developing THROUGH the process of objective/ity? > > > > You want to show or demonstrate that there are a number (count **them**) > > of activity systems at work. > > > > > > > > Content pushes dialogue & dialogue pushes content? > > > > > > > > Is there also **pulling** dynamics **drawing** us to become absorbed or > > enter into a number of *systems*. > > > > > > > > My question hinges on the > > > > * permeability* of each of these (systems) that are demarcating the > > topography or structure of each (specific) system. What we (place) > inside a > > particular system that occurs with systematic/ity **in order to** make > > sense of the many activity systems that are creating (producing, > > constructing) the *object* as our objective. The objects particular * > > *objective/ity** that develops within this dynamic process. > > > > I will pause here and leave my stream of thought as an ox-bow phenomena > > cut off from the source of this flow of dialogue and joint participation. > > > > The exploration of the relation of (objects) and objectives and > > (objective/ity) > > > > THROUGH a number of permeable demarcations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > > > > > *From: *Mark de Boer > > *Sent: *August 16, 2016 7:06 AM > > *To: *xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] 3rd generation activity theory > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > I have not posted in a very long time. I am hoping that someone can help > > > > out with my question(s). > > > > > > > > I am working with data from a group of 4 students, they are > collaboratively > > > > working on a project. Most of their collaboration is done using an online > > > > forum, although there is some-face-to-face time. They are working in the > > > > L2, English, their L1 is Japanese. Their project was to investigate pet > > > > bottle use on campus and give a poster presentation on their findings. > > > > > > > > They have done some preliminary work, such as a survey to students, some > > > > interviews, some general research and have begun to work on their poster. > > > > (all dialogue is being shared in the online forum). > > > > > > > > The dialogue in the forum looks something like this: > > > > > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > > > in the forum) > > > > 3. Student C: 'I've made some small changes, and I added some > information' > > > > (poster2 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster1) > > > > 4. Student D: 'Student C's ideas are good, I made some changes too.' > > > > (poster3 file an attachment in the forum, originally poster 2) > > > > 5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3) > > > > > > > > And so forth. This occurs the bouncing back and forth of the file, each > > > > student adding or changing something, expressing what they have done in > the > > > > online forum. There are about 120 lines of data, with over 80 files being > > > > shared. > > > > > > > > I have used Longacre's analysis to prove that this is procedural > dialogue, > > > > and Bereiter's discussions of progressive dialogue to prove that this is > > > > progressive dialogue, but I have gotten stuck on the concept of 3rd > > > > generation activity theory to show that this is a joint construction of > the > > > > object of the activity, and that there are a number activity systems at > > > > work. > > > > > > > > What I want to show is that there is evidence of dialogue that pushes the > > > > creation of content. The learners are working from basically nothing, > they > > > > only have been given a project of what to investigate, but the rest of > what > > > > they do is up to them. They decide content, they decide what to present, > > > > and they decide who does what within their group. So, as someone makes a > > > > suggestion, as in 1 and 5, content follows based on the suggestion. > > > > I also want to show that there is evidence that the content created also > > > > causes more dialogue to occur. So as content is uploaded, as in 2, 3, 4, > > > > and 6, students respond with evaluation, changes to the content, and > > > > additions to the content. > > > > > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. In 2, B uploads a file and > > > > requests evaluation. C downloads the content, makes changes, and uploads > it > > > > in 3. The language in the forum in 2, I would like to argue that it is a > > > > tool, to inform the others that there is content for them to look at, but > > > > that this is actually a case of the content in 2 creating the reason for > > > > dialogue in 3. But at the same time, content is changed and uploaded in > 3. > > > > > > > > In my efforts to understand this data, I have turned to two places, > > > > Engestrom's chapter from 1999, Innovative learning in work teams, and > > > > Daniels book 2001, Vygotsky and Pedagogy, mostly chapter 3, the > discussions > > > > of Activity theory 3rd generation as a starting point. > > > > > > > > I want to argue that the learners are jointly constructing the object of > > > > the activity, and that object is what Bereiter and Wells refer to as the > > > > improvable object. The dialogue influences the content and the content > > > > influences the dialogue. Can this be argued as 3rd generation activity > > > > theory? I am thinking it can be, I actually think it is a perfect fit to > > > > the model, but I am alone reading these materials without anyone to > bounce > > > > these ideas off of. My confusion lies in that this is with second > language > > > > learners in a general English course, and most of the instances of > language > > > > learning discussions center around the structure of the language, not the > > > > use of the language. > > > > > > > > Eventually, my final argument is that through this interaction, instances > > > > of dynamic assessment occurs between learners, because not only are they > > > > sharing files and constantly changing them, but occasionally Student B > may > > > > upload a file with content and Student A (or other) will make a > suggestion > > > > to Student B who will then change their poster file again and upload it. > > > > Again, much of the discussion of dynamic assessment and language learning > > > > occurs around the structure of the language, so I'm certain that this is > a > > > > new field of study with respect to joint construction of an object > coupled > > > > with instances of dynamic assessment in a language learning environment. > > > > > > > > I know there is probably much more I can write, but not to bog down the > > > > readers here, I am interested in thoughts or opinions on what is > happening > > > > with the data. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: activity systems.png > Type: image/png > Size: 101564 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/ > attachments/20160817/310e4df2/attachment-0001.png > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:14:12 +0000 > From: Stephen Diaz > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: > grad seminar > To: "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov > , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Message-ID: > namprd08.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks for posting Gene's syllabus. I just want to comment on the glaring > gap in the curricular map. That is the absence of the work of Michael > Cole's work in the syllabus. It is good that Gene allows students to > introduce and pursue their own perspectives and interests because one of > the first changes I would make as a student would be to include Cole's work > in the curricular map. Gene's syllabus is great contribution to those of > us who teach in this area. Thank you. > > Esteban Diaz > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:19 AM > To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > > Dear XMCAers- > > > > Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus "Sociocultural > Theories in Education." Attached please find my "final draft" of it - > actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the > end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic > governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won't be > late. > > > > Take care, > > > > Eugene > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > > Associate Professor of Education > > Chestnut Hill College > > phone: 267-334-2905 > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:14:12 +0000 > From: Stephen Diaz > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: > grad seminar > To: "xmca-l@ucsd.edu" , Eugene Matusov > , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > Message-ID: > namprd08.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks for posting Gene's syllabus. I just want to comment on the glaring > gap in the curricular map. That is the absence of the work of Michael > Cole's work in the syllabus. It is good that Gene allows students to > introduce and pursue their own perspectives and interests because one of > the first changes I would make as a student would be to include Cole's work > in the curricular map. Gene's syllabus is great contribution to those of > us who teach in this area. Thank you. > > Esteban Diaz > > > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Ana Marjanovic-Shane > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:19 AM > To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu; Eugene Matusov > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: FW: Syllabus on sociocultural theories: grad seminar > > Dear XMCAers- > > > > Thanks a lot for your help with my grad seminar syllabus "Sociocultural > Theories in Education." Attached please find my "final draft" of it - > actually, the final draft will be developed by my students and me *at the > end of the course *because we are going to change it via democratic > governance of the class. So, if you get new ideas to share, you won't be > late. > > > > Take care, > > > > Eugene > ---------------------------- > > Eugene Matusov, PhD, ematusov@udel.edu > > Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > Professor of Education > > School of Education > > 16 W Main st > > University of Delaware > > Newark, DE 19716, USA > > > > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm > > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu > > DPJ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/DPJ.two/ > > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > > Associate Professor of Education > > Chestnut Hill College > > phone: 267-334-2905 > -- > *Ana Marjanovic-Shane* > Dialogic Pedagogy Journal editor (dpj.pitt.edu) > Associate Professor of Education > Chestnut Hill College > phone: 267-334-2905 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:37:19 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > This ad struck me as an interesting indication of a domain in which a lot > of our discussions about mediation, cooperation, communication, > collaboration find a natural home. > > mike > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Polycom Inc. > Date: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:33 AM > Subject: 78% of workers struggle with collaboration > To: mcole@ucsd.edu > > > > The traditional office space is dead. Welcome a new world of shared, open > spaces. > > [image: logo] > f3b06f1da72549ae8d046096140da1ef&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664 > f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > > [image: img] > [image: The Incredible Shrinking Office: Transforming Workspaces to Empower > Collaboration] > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=5388874bbb2943cdb2695b01a9601c > 1b&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > > new Report The Incredible Shrinking Office: Transforming Workspaces to > Empower Collaboration > > > Various studies show that up to 82% of knowledge workers feel they need to > collaborate with others throughout the day to get work done. Yet, > according to an IBM study, 78% say they struggle to effectively connect > their workplace and help people collaborate?either virtually or > face-to-face. Why? The answer is not all collaboration is alike. > > Go to the report > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=d1154cbd7e19437fb58df4fbb7265d > 77&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > to > get the latest trends in office space utilization and learn about the three > main types of collaboration and how they need to be supported differently > in the work environment. > > go to report > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=cc7a45c443024804947ae857aa764c > bb&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > > [image: img] > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=5df3514824434a77aa60654f07ebb3 > ac&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > > Collaborate in a circle, regardless of location > > Witness the power of meeting in the round in this interactive demo of > Polycom? RealPresence Centro?. > Go to Demo > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=28cdfb48b7ac45cabcb2f20243822d > eb&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > [image: img] > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=911db5430ffd427cb6192bf6ee9598 > 84&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > > NATO embraces a new way of working > > NATO Communications and Information (NCI) agency is changing how global > participants meet and interact. > Watch Video > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=9fb7a5b26ece44b89f2dede692f5ff > da&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > [image: img] > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=5ceb59764b72450b9412557f67ebc1 > 51&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > > Polycom Experience Center Open House - Upcoming Dates > > Visit a Polycom experience center to see demonstrations of the latest > innovations in group video collaboration. > See Dates & Locations > elqcontact=CPOLY000001951974&elqTrackId=e6fe2e0fa18444489f1ae7bbee7cdc > d4&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > Polycom, Inc. > 6001 America Center Drive, San Jose, CA 95002 > Tel: 1.800.POLYCOM | Web: http://www.polycom.com > 43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=6025> > You are subscribed as mcole@ucsd.edu. > Online Version > d00b4c3fd6954bfa856635f795bcd8eb&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664 > f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1> > | Privacy Policy > 574c969d17e34314aeec1a1115ad98e3&elq=43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664 > f8&elqaid=25760&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=6025> > | Unsubscribe > 43bb8b4625c74d29808ce336465664f8> > ?2016 Polycom, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All other brands, products, or > service names are or may be trademarks or service marks of, and are used to > identify, products or services of their respective owners. > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:00:06 +0900 > From: Mark de Boer > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Message-ID: > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello! > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > below each of your messages. > > > Hi Mark, > > I think the issue is really complex. > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > presentation > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to create > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > the > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > poster means a better grade). > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > changing each other's > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > the dialogue you > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > for progressive > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity theory. > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > interesting stuff on this. > Take a look at some of their articles. > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > but as they are doing this, > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > data are facts concerning pet > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > them. So although the dialogue > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > not shown in my short example), > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > done, what message should be put in the poster, > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > is influence of content, content added > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > Hi Mark > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > Mike > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > offer. > > Carol > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > in the forums, and came up > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > thinking came from reading > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > as learners are working on their > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > (tools-and-results activity). > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > data. > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer wrote: > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. But > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > attachment > > in the forum) > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > Martin > > Dear Martin, > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > a poster as a group, they > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > create 'their part of the poster', > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > made my poster' (contribution to the > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > divides the work of the poster into > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > assign these topics to the other > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > created - moving from student to > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > dialogue shows evidence that the > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > what gets written, and in > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > are printed and put on the wall > > ready for presenting. > > > > > Mark, > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > use) Please give me your opinion. > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 file > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > the previous turn? > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is unclear > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > -greg > > Dear Greg, > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > get developed, the leader of > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > information, but now student C takes that poster > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > begins to link the different topics together. > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > the forum as changes are made. > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > Warm regards, > > Mark > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:20:39 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > Vf8g@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Mark -- > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I am > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > with my understanding. > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it form > disparate people! > > mike > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > > > Hello! > > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > below each of your messages. > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > I think the issue is really complex. > > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > presentation > > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > create > > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > > the > > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > poster means a better grade). > > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > changing each other's > > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > the dialogue you > > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > > for progressive > > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > theory. > > > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > interesting stuff on this. > > Take a look at some of their articles. > > > > Michael > > > > > > Hello Michael, > > > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > > but as they are doing this, > > > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > data are facts concerning pet > > > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > > them. So although the dialogue > > > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > not shown in my short example), > > > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > > done, what message should be put in the poster, > > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > is influence of content, content added > > > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > > > > > Hi Mark > > > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > Mike > > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > > offer. > > > > Carol > > > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > in the forums, and came up > > > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > thinking came from reading > > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > > as learners are working on their > > > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > (tools-and-results activity). > > > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > > > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > attachment > > > in the forum) > > > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > > Martin > > > > Dear Martin, > > > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > > a poster as a group, they > > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > create 'their part of the poster', > > > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > > made my poster' (contribution to the > > > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > divides the work of the poster into > > > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > assign these topics to the other > > > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > created - moving from student to > > > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > dialogue shows evidence that the > > > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > > what gets written, and in > > > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > are printed and put on the wall > > > > ready for presenting. > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > > the previous turn? > > > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > unclear > > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > > -greg > > > > Dear Greg, > > > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > get developed, the leader of > > > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > information, but now student C takes that poster > > > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > begins to link the different topics together. > > > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > > the forum as changes are made. > > > > > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:59 -0600 > From: HENRY SHONERD > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Mike, > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my own > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not ignorance, > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > Henry > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Mark -- > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > am > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > > with my understanding. > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > form > > disparate people! > > > > mike > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > wrote: > > > >> Hello! > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > >> > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > >> below each of your messages. > >> > >> > >> Hi Mark, > >> > >> I think the issue is really complex. > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > >> presentation > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > create > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > >> the > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > >> poster means a better grade). > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > >> changing each other's > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > >> the dialogue you > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > >> for progressive > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > theory. > >> > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > >> interesting stuff on this. > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> Hello Michael, > >> > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > >> but as they are doing this, > >> > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > >> data are facts concerning pet > >> > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > >> > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > >> them. So although the dialogue > >> > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > >> not shown in my short example), > >> > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > >> is influence of content, content added > >> > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > >> > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Mark > >> > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > >> Mike > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > >> offer. > >> > >> Carol > >> > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > >> > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > >> in the forums, and came up > >> > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > >> thinking came from reading > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > >> as learners are working on their > >> > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > >> > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > >> > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > >> > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > >> (tools-and-results activity). > >> > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > >> data. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > >>> > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > >> > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > >> > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > >> attachment > >>> in the forum) > >> > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> Dear Martin, > >> > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > >> a poster as a group, they > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > >> create 'their part of the poster', > >> > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > >> > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > >> divides the work of the poster into > >> > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > >> assign these topics to the other > >> > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > >> created - moving from student to > >> > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > >> > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > >> what gets written, and in > >> > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > >> are printed and put on the wall > >> > >> ready for presenting. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mark, > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > >> > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > bottle > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > >> > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates > to > >> the previous turn? > >> > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > unclear > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > >> > >> -greg > >> > >> Dear Greg, > >> > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > >> get developed, the leader of > >> > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > >> > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > >> > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > >> > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > >> > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > >> begins to link the different topics together. > >> > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > >> > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > >> > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > >> > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > >> the forum as changes are made. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > >> > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > >> > >> Warm regards, > >> > >> Mark > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 32 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:07:30 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > OCnmrKWoXg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Perhaps, Henry. > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a single > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > additional apparatus. > > mike > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > > > Mike, > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > own > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > ignorance, > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > between > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > > am > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > accords > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > > form > > > disparate people! > > > > > > mike > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello! > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > >> > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > >> below each of your messages. > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > >> presentation > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type > of > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > > create > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to > use > > >> the > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > >> poster means a better grade). > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > >> changing each other's > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > >> the dialogue you > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > > >> for progressive > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > theory. > > >> > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > >> > > >> Michael > > >> > > >> > > >> Hello Michael, > > >> > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > > >> but as they are doing this, > > >> > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > >> > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > >> > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > >> > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > >> not shown in my short example), > > >> > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > >> is influence of content, content added > > >> > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > >> > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Mark > > >> > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > >> Mike > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have > to > > >> offer. > > >> > > >> Carol > > >> > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > >> > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > >> in the forums, and came up > > >> > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > >> thinking came from reading > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > > >> as learners are working on their > > >> > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > >> > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > >> > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > >> > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > >> > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of > the > > >> data. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > > But > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > >> > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > >> > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > >> attachment > > >>> in the forum) > > >> > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > >> > > >> Martin > > >> > > >> Dear Martin, > > >> > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > > >> a poster as a group, they > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > >> > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > >> > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > >> > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > >> assign these topics to the other > > >> > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > >> created - moving from student to > > >> > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > >> > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > > >> what gets written, and in > > >> > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > >> > > >> ready for presenting. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Mark, > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > >> > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in > our > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > bottle > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > > file > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > >> > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or > was > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce > to > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > something > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > students > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates > > to > > >> the previous turn? > > >> > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > > unclear > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > about > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > >> > > >> -greg > > >> > > >> Dear Greg, > > >> > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > >> get developed, the leader of > > >> > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > >> > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > >> > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > >> > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > >> > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > >> > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > >> > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > >> > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > >> > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > >> > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > >> > > >> Warm regards, > > >> > > >> Mark > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 33 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:25:11 -0400 > From: Christopher Schuck > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose work > partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been > discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the > introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or > would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity > system? > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > Perhaps, Henry. > > > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a > single > > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > > additional apparatus. > > > > mike > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > > wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not > mistaken, > > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > > own > > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On > the > > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education > in > > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the > zone > > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > > ignorance, > > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > > between > > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. > Perhaps I > > > am > > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > > accords > > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of > it > > > form > > > > disparate people! > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer < > mark.yomogi@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hello! > > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > > >> > > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > > >> below each of your messages. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Mark, > > > >> > > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > > >> presentation > > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the > type > > of > > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > > > create > > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to > > use > > > >> the > > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > > >> poster means a better grade). > > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > > >> changing each other's > > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > > >> the dialogue you > > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented > thinking, > > > >> for progressive > > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > > theory. > > > >> > > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > > >> > > > >> Michael > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hello Michael, > > > >> > > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the > poster, > > > >> but as they are doing this, > > > >> > > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > > >> > > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > > >> > > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop > using > > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > > >> > > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > > >> not shown in my short example), > > > >> > > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should > be > > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > > >> is influence of content, content added > > > >> > > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. > The > > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > > >> > > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, > they > > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Mark > > > >> > > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > > >> Mike > > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of > labour, > > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your > situation, > > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss > to > > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might > have > > to > > > >> offer. > > > >> > > > >> Carol > > > >> > > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > > >> > > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > > >> in the forums, and came up > > > >> > > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > > >> thinking came from reading > > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by > Engestrom, > > > >> as learners are working on their > > > >> > > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > > >> > > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to > show > > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > > >> > > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > > >> > > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > > >> > > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of > > the > > > >> data. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple > case. > > > But > > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > >> > > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > >> > > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > > >> attachment > > > >>> in the forum) > > > >> > > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > >> > > > >> Martin > > > >> > > > >> Dear Martin, > > > >> > > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are > developing > > > >> a poster as a group, they > > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > > >> > > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to > 'I > > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > > >> > > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > > >> > > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > > >> assign these topics to the other > > > >> > > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > > >> created - moving from student to > > > >> > > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > > >> > > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions > about > > > >> what gets written, and in > > > >> > > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > > >> > > > >> ready for presenting. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Mark, > > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > >> > > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in > > our > > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > > bottle > > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' > (poster4 > > > file > > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > >> > > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or > > was > > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce > > to > > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > > something > > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > > students > > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn > relates > > > to > > > >> the previous turn? > > > >> > > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > > > unclear > > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > > about > > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > >> > > > >> -greg > > > >> > > > >> Dear Greg, > > > >> > > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > > >> get developed, the leader of > > > >> > > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running > though > > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > > >> > > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > > >> > > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already > there). > > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > > >> > > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > > >> > > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > > >> > > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > > >> > > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, > etc, > > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > > >> > > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned > (although > > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > > >> > > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it > to > > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > > >> > > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would > be > > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > > >> > > > >> Warm regards, > > > >> > > > >> Mark > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > > object > > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 34 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:18:33 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Interesting question, Christopher. Maybe an expert will have the answer! > mike > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Christopher Schuck < > schuckthemonkey@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose > work > > partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been > > discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the > > introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or > > would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity > > system? > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:07 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > Perhaps, Henry. > > > > > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a > > single > > > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > > > additional apparatus. > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what > you > > > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not > > mistaken, > > > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a > time. > > > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am > mistaken.?? > > > > > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life > my > > > own > > > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be > called > > > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In > the > > > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On > > the > > > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, > education > > in > > > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of > Daniels > > > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the > > zone > > > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > > > ignorance, > > > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mark -- > > > > > > > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions > > > between > > > > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. > > Perhaps I > > > > am > > > > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that > > > accords > > > > > with my understanding. > > > > > > > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of > > it > > > > form > > > > > disparate people! > > > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > > > > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer < > > mark.yomogi@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hello! > > > > >> Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in > my > > > > >> mailbox, so I am consolidating > > > > >> > > > > >> the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > > > >> below each of your messages. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Hi Mark, > > > > >> > > > > >> I think the issue is really complex. > > > > >> Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better > for > > > > >> presentation > > > > >> or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > > > >> If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the > > type > > > of > > > > >> progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking > to > > > > create > > > > >> through student interactions. It is instead the students looking > to > > > use > > > > >> the > > > > >> technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > > > >> poster means a better grade). > > > > >> On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > > > >> changing each other's > > > > >> thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can > from > > > > >> the dialogue you > > > > >> presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented > > thinking, > > > > >> for progressive > > > > >> development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > > > > theory. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some > really > > > > >> interesting stuff on this. > > > > >> Take a look at some of their articles. > > > > >> > > > > >> Michael > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Hello Michael, > > > > >> > > > > >> The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the > > poster, > > > > >> but as they are doing this, > > > > >> > > > > >> the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. > the > > > > >> data are facts concerning pet > > > > >> > > > > >> bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > > > >> message that pet bottles are harmful for > > > > >> > > > > >> the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop > > using > > > > >> them. So although the dialogue > > > > >> > > > > >> I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that > is > > > > >> not shown in my short example), > > > > >> > > > > >> the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what > should > > be > > > > >> done, what message should be put in the poster, > > > > >> but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that > there > > > > >> is influence of content, content added > > > > >> > > > > >> often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. > > The > > > > >> issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > > > >> > > > > >> and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, > > they > > > > >> are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Hi Mark > > > > >> > > > > >> It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen > AT. > > > > >> Mike > > > > >> I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity > being > > > > >> negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of > > labour, > > > > >> subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your > > situation, > > > > >> where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a > loss > > to > > > > >> offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > > > >> dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might > > have > > > to > > > > >> offer. > > > > >> > > > > >> Carol > > > > >> > > > > >> Hello Mike and Carol, > > > > >> > > > > >> Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were > doing > > > > >> in the forums, and came up > > > > >> > > > > >> with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > > > >> thinking came from reading > > > > >> 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by > > Engestrom, > > > > >> as learners are working on their > > > > >> > > > > >> understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are > going > > > > >> to present on. I showed division of labour, > > > > >> > > > > >> subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to > > show > > > > >> that on one side there was the language which was driving > > > > >> > > > > >> the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > > > >> analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > > > >> > > > > >> collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > > > >> easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > > > >> they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for > the > > > > >> collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > > > >> they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > > > >> I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > > > >> product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > > > >> (tools-and-results activity). > > > > >> > > > > >> I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > > > >> literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > > > >> now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis > of > > > the > > > > >> data. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple > > case. > > > > But > > > > >>> between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > > >> > > > > >>> 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > > >>> 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > > > >> attachment > > > > >>> in the forum) > > > > >> > > > > >> How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > > >> > > > > >> Martin > > > > >> > > > > >> Dear Martin, > > > > >> > > > > >> Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are > > developing > > > > >> a poster as a group, they > > > > >> (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > > > >> create 'their part of the poster', > > > > >> > > > > >> so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to > > 'I > > > > >> made my poster' (contribution to the > > > > >> > > > > >> group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > > > >> divides the work of the poster into > > > > >> > > > > >> topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > > > >> assign these topics to the other > > > > >> > > > > >> students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > > > >> created - moving from student to > > > > >> > > > > >> student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > > > >> dialogue shows evidence that the > > > > >> > > > > >> students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions > > about > > > > >> what gets written, and in > > > > >> > > > > >> some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the > posters > > > > >> are printed and put on the wall > > > > >> > > > > >> ready for presenting. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark, > > > > >> I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > > >> > > > > >> "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents > in > > > our > > > > >> poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet > > > > bottle > > > > >> use) Please give me your opinion. > > > > >> 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' > > (poster4 > > > > file > > > > >> an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > > >> > > > > >> How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". > Or > > > was > > > > >> poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to > introduce > > > to > > > > >> everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" > > > something > > > > >> that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the > > > students > > > > >> not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn > > relates > > > > to > > > > >> the previous turn? > > > > >> > > > > >> The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what > is > > > > unclear > > > > >> to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 > suggests > > > > >> continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster > > > about > > > > >> (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > > >> > > > > >> -greg > > > > >> > > > > >> Dear Greg, > > > > >> > > > > >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting > to > > > > >> get developed, the leader of > > > > >> > > > > >> the group decides that there should be specific themes running > > though > > > > >> the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > > > >> > > > > >> and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > > > >> information, but now student C takes that poster > > > > >> > > > > >> and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already > > there). > > > > >> So the poster begins to get built by adding > > > > >> > > > > >> topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > > > >> information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > > > >> > > > > >> Later some of the students also put information into the poster > that > > > > >> begins to link the different topics together. > > > > >> > > > > >> At one point though the group leader decides that instead of > listing > > > > >> topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > > > >> > > > > >> adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, > > etc, > > > > >> and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > > > >> > > > > >> The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned > > (although > > > > >> some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > > > >> > > > > >> work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading > it > > to > > > > >> the forum as changes are made. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, > would > > > > >> someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > > > >> > > > > >> take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I > would > > be > > > > >> very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this > post. > > > > >> > > > > >> Warm regards, > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with > an > > > > object > > > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > > object > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 35 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:03:18 -0600 > From: Greg Thompson > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Small point here Mark about the 5/6 transition, but as an American English > speaker, and given the further clarification that you just provided, I feel > like Student C's comment in 6 is lacking something about how to connect it > to what came before. I would have expected some kind of linking clause or > transition like "[to student B] that's a great idea. I am attaching a > poster..." > > I would suggest two possibilities for why this didn't happen: > 1a. this is a metapragmatic difference between their native tongue and > English. > 1b. they don't have the linguistic resources to accomplish this kind of > bridging (although "that's a great idea seems grammatically and > semantically simple enough that I would assume that, based on their other > utterances, would have been easy enough to produce). > 2. It is unnecessary given the medium in which they are working (i.e., the > collaborative nature of Student C's comment in 6 is obvious given what has > come before). > > Of course there may be others, but each of these options point to how > collaboration is mediated by the means of communication (whether the means > are metapragmatics, linguistic resources, or the medium of communication). > That doesn't get you to 3rd gen activity theory but it seems to be > something that is old school activity theory. It seems to be clearly there > in the data. What's more, it is this aspect of collaboration that is > entirely left out of many models of collaboration (see the virtual > communication system that Mike sent an email about shortly ago). > > Just one thought among many. > > -greg > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:00 PM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > > > Hello! > > Thank you for your replies. For some reason I did not get them in my > > mailbox, so I am consolidating > > > > the mail here from the XMCA archive site and replying to everyone > > below each of your messages. > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > I think the issue is really complex. > > Are the students using the open forum to make the poster better for > > presentation > > or to advance the thinking that the poster represents. > > If it is the first then I don't think you can think of it as the type of > > progressive thinking the Knowledge Forum for instance is looking to > create > > through student interactions. It is instead the students looking to use > > the > > technology to advance their needs within the larger system (a good > > poster means a better grade). > > On the other hand if you can show that the students are really > > changing each other's > > thinking about what's on the poster (and I am not sure you can from > > the dialogue you > > presented here) then you can make an argument for augmented thinking, > > for progressive > > development of thinking, I am guessing for 3rd generation activity > theory. > > > > I think Kai Hakkarainnen and Sammi Paavola have written some really > > interesting stuff on this. > > Take a look at some of their articles. > > > > Michael > > > > > > Hello Michael, > > > > The students are doing both. They use the forum to better the poster, > > but as they are doing this, > > > > the poster is evolving to change from data to 'a message', i.e. the > > data are facts concerning pet > > > > bottle manufacturing, recycling, and usage, which evolves into a > > message that pet bottles are harmful for > > > > the environment, harmful for our bodies, and that we should stop using > > them. So although the dialogue > > > > I showed here doesn't show this (there is a lot of dialogue that is > > not shown in my short example), > > > > the majority of the dialogue moves the process forward, what should be > > done, what message should be put in the poster, > > but the content in the posters provides the most evidence that there > > is influence of content, content added > > > > often has an influence on other content, and the message evolves. The > > issue is complex, it is a language learning classroom, > > > > and I am attempting to show that through the student interaction, they > > are dynamically assessing each other. > > > > > > > > Hi Mark > > > > It is not clear to me from your explication why you need 3rd gen AT. > > Mike > > I concur with Mike, Mark. There is not a *system *of activity being > > negotiated here as I see. Beliefs, motives, goals, division of labour, > > subject, object, outcomes. It's seems like overkill in your situation, > > where content is being negotiated and renegotiated. I am at a loss to > > offer you anything more than what you are dealing with in terms of > > dialogue, except you might like to see what Eugene Matusov might have to > > offer. > > > > Carol > > > > Hello Mike and Carol, > > > > Originally, my thoughts were to examine what the learners were doing > > in the forums, and came up > > > > with the conclusion that this was an object oriented activity. The > > thinking came from reading > > 'Toward overcoming the encapsulation of school learning' by Engestrom, > > as learners are working on their > > > > understanding of the different concepts of the topics they are going > > to present on. I showed division of labour, > > > > subject, object outcomes, tools. My dilemma, was that I wanted to show > > that on one side there was the language which was driving > > > > the process forward, this can be easily proven using different > > analytical tools, but I also wanted to show that as a result of > > > > collaboration, the students would develop content.(this can also > > easily be seen from the data). But as they developed content, > > they would discuss it, thus the content was also responsible for the > > collaboration. This would be done up to the point of where > > they would present. Thus the division of systems (in my mind). > > I also wanted to show that the object (poster) was not the end > > product, it was used as a tool for their presentation > > (tools-and-results activity). > > > > I am confused now, because I have written, submitted, and passed 2 > > literature reviews towards my PhD with these concepts in mind and > > now I am currently writing the final paper, showing the analysis of the > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Mark de Boer > wrote: > > > > > > I can understand what happens between 1 and 2. This is a simple case. > But > > > between 2, 3, and 4 it becomes complicated. > > > > Mark, I don?t yet understand what happens between 1 and 2! > > > > > 1. Student A: 'Let's begin working on our poster' > > > 2. Student B: 'I made my poster, please check' (poster1 file an > > attachment > > > in the forum) > > > > How did ?our poster? become ?my poster?? > > > > Martin > > > > Dear Martin, > > > > Because this is a group of 4 students, even though they are developing > > a poster as a group, they > > (as is seen later on) end up dividing the work and each start to > > create 'their part of the poster', > > > > so the dialogue moves from 'let's make our poster' (as a group) to 'I > > made my poster' (contribution to the > > > > group's whole poster). Later on in the dialogue, the group leader > > divides the work of the poster into > > > > topics as I showed, but then after a number of days, he decides to > > assign these topics to the other > > > > students in the group. The dialogue moves from one poster being > > created - moving from student to > > > > student, to 4 sub posters being created by 4 students, and the > > dialogue shows evidence that the > > > > students are looking at each others posters, making suggestions about > > what gets written, and in > > > > some cases altering other student's posters. At the end the posters > > are printed and put on the wall > > > > ready for presenting. > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > I don't understand what happens between 5 and 6: > > > > "5. Student B: 'I think that we should put the following contents in our > > poster (suggesting a list of topics concerning pet bottles and pet bottle > > use) Please give me your opinion. > > 6. Student C: 'I made a poster about (topic a), please check' (poster4 > file > > an attachment in the forum, originally poster3)" > > > > How did poster3 get changed into poster4 that is "about topic a". Or was > > poster3 already about topic a? If so, then why the need to introduce to > > everyone with "I made a poster about (topic a)"? Was "topic a" something > > that was introduced by Student B in turn #5? Is this due to the students > > not having the resources in English to indicate how their turn relates to > > the previous turn? > > > > The continuity/discontinuity (aka "old/new information") is what is > unclear > > to me. The fact that this poster4 is a revision of poster3 suggests > > continuity and old information. But the statement "I made a poster about > > (topic a)" suggests discontinuity and new information. > > > > -greg > > > > Dear Greg, > > > > I'm sorry I wasn't clear here. Even though the poster is starting to > > get developed, the leader of > > > > the group decides that there should be specific themes running though > > the poster, thus topics (a-d) are decided > > > > and written into the forum. Poster 3 file already contains some > > information, but now student C takes that poster > > > > and adds topic-a information. (Topic b information was already there). > > So the poster begins to get built by adding > > > > topic information. So although there is continuity and old > > information, there is discontinuity and new information added. > > > > Later some of the students also put information into the poster that > > begins to link the different topics together. > > > > At one point though the group leader decides that instead of listing > > topics and having a free-for-all, each student randomly > > > > adding information, he assigns the topics Student A gets topic a, etc, > > and then there is a discontinuity and new information. > > > > The poster that they have been sharing is somewhat abandoned (although > > some information is pulled) and each student begins to > > > > work on their own topic as a completely separate file, uploading it to > > the forum as changes are made. > > > > > > > > Thank you everyone for your replies. If it is at all possible, would > > someone be willing to skype about this? I promise not to > > > > take up much of your time. My skype handle is yomogi-cello. I would be > > very grateful for any help or advice after you have read this post. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Mark > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 36 > Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:20:10 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the > Listserv > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > A job > Mike > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *Connell, Deborah A* > Date: Tuesday, 16 August 2016 > Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Faculty Job Posting for the Listserv > To: "cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org" > Cc: "Connell, Deborah A" > > > Hello: > > > > I would like to post the attached faculty position on your Listserv. I have > also included the text within this email. If you need a name of someone in > good standing, you can refer to Dr. Julie Fiez. Please let me know if there > is any other information that you need. Thank you! > > > > Best, > > > > Debbie > > > > *------------------------------* > > *Deborah Connell* > > Assistant to Daniel S. Shaw, Chairman ? Department of Psychology > > University of Pittsburgh ? 210 South Bouquet Street > > 3129 Sennott Square ? Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > > > > Phone: 412-624-4337 > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > The Department of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh announces a > tenure track position at the *Assistant Professor* level, pending budgetary > approval, for an individual with a program of research focusing on* > developmental psychology*. Outstanding candidates with strong expertise in > prenatal, infant, child, and/or adolescent development will be considered > with a strong theoretical orientation, with emphasis in any of the > following areas especially welcomed: > > > > ? Socioemotional, cognitive (including attention), or > social-cognitive development, including problematic or non-normative > development > > ? Epigenetic influences > > ? Developmental neuroscience (cognitive or affective) > > ? Advanced quantitative expertise; or who use neuroimaging or > physiological methods; or who conduct applied or policy-relevant research > > ? > > As the ability to complement and extend the current strengths of the > Psychology Department is also essential, optimal candidates should have > cross-disciplinary interests that intersect with other departmental program > areas. > > > > The Psychology Department (http://www.psychology.pitt.edu) is committed to > excellence in research and in teaching at both the graduate and > undergraduate levels. The Department has 38 tenure-stream faculty and > houses five graduate training programs: Biological and Health, Clinical, > Cognitive, Developmental, and Social, along with cross-program training > opportunities. The interdisciplinary nature of psychological science is > reflected in both faculty research interests and collaborations and > training options afforded to graduate students. > > > > The review of applications will begin immediately, with complete > applications received by October 15, 2016 receiving full consideration. > Applications should be submitted electronically by sending a cover letter, > CV, statements of research and teaching interests, three letters of > recommendation, and up to three representative publications to > *psyrecr@pitt.edu > *. The subject heading > of > recommendation letters should include the applicant?s last name and the > word Recommendation*.* Inquiries regarding the position can be addressed > to the Chair of the Search Committee, Professor Jana Iverson ( > jiverson@pitt.edu ). > The > University of Pittsburgh is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity > Employer and values equality of opportunity, human dignity and diversity. > EEO/AA/M/F/Vets/Disabled. > > > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: DevelopmentalAd.pdf > Type: application/pdf > Size: 368008 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/ > attachments/20160819/ced68294/attachment.pdf > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > xmca-l mailing list > xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l > > > End of xmca-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 3 > ************************************* > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 19 09:13:36 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:13:36 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Immediate Post-Doctoral Fellowship Available: Temple University Infant and Child Lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent post doc for the right person mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tara Saunders Date: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:59 AM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Immediate Post-Doctoral Fellowship Available: Temple University Infant and Child Lab To: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org ***Immediate Post-Doctoral Fellowship Available: Temple University Infant and Child Lab*** The Temple University Infant and Child Laboratory at Ambler is looking for a post-doctoral fellow to work on projects with Dr. Kathy Hirsh-Pasek and Dr. Roberta Golinkoff. This is a fabulous opportunity to hone your research experience and gain additional publications and presentations. The project is an IES-funded collaborative study between Temple University and University of Delaware, investigating preschool spatial skills training by examining various strategies for teaching spatial skills and comparing the delivery of those strategies in concrete and digital formats. Because the training involves language and gesture, as well as digital applications, applicants with a wide range of experience will be considered for the position. This position has a 1-year minimum, with the possibility of extending to 2 years. As the project manager, the post-doctoral fellow will be expected to participate at all levels of the project. The responsibilities include: - Data collection at preschool sites, - Training and supervision of undergraduate and graduate RAs and other project staff, - Data coding and analysis, - Write-up and dissemination of results for internal reports and peer-reviewed publications, - Presentation of findings in national and international conferences, Required qualifications: - Ph.D. in Psychology, Education, or a related field - Experience working with young children in research/preschool settings - Training in a wide range of areas including, early cognitive development with an emphasis on spatial learning, early mathematical readiness, play and learning, language and gestural development - Excellent interpersonal, leadership, writing, and organizational skills - Ability to interact with a diverse population of participants - Proficiency with SPSS, SAS, and/or R Please send a resume/CV, cover letter, and research statement to Jelani Medford, Lab Coordinator, at jelani.medford@temple.edu. Applications will be accepted until the position has been filled. Please visit our website ( www.temple.edu/infantlab) for more information about the lab. -- *Tara Saunders* Child's Play, Learning and Development Lab School of Education 224 Willard Hall University of Delaware Newark, DE 19716 (302) 831-2073 _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 19 11:47:18 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:47:18 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: 11 New Education Research Jobs In-Reply-To: <78.1695.502899.193940.74446567.1457@aeramail.org> References: <78.1695.502899.193940.74446567.1457@aeramail.org> Message-ID: more jobs mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: AERA Jobs Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 11:19 AM Subject: 11 New Education Research Jobs To: lchcmike@gmail.com August Jobs E-Newsletter *Search Jobs * *Post Jobs * *Access / Create Account * Employers, include your open positions in the next Jobs E-Newsletter! *Learn More ?* Below are some of the hundreds of exciting professional opportunities available on *American Educational Research Association - AERA Career Center* . Professor of Educational Psychology and Assessment * Aliso Viejo, California * Soka University of America View Job Professor of Comparative and International Education and Leadership * Aliso Viejo, California * Soka University of America View Job Dean, School of Education and Social Policy * Evanston, Illinois * Northwestern University View Job Assistant Dean for Research * Los Angeles, California * USC Rossier School of Education View Job Assistant Dean for Assessment and Accreditation * Cortland, New York * SUNY College at Cortland View Job Assistant Professor * South Bend, United States * University of Notre Dame View Job Analyst in Education Policy Improvement * Washington, Dist. Columbia * Congressional Research Service View Job Director, Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy * Tucson, Arizona * University of Arizona View Job Associate Director of Research & Evaluation, BECI * Omaha, Nebraska * University of Nebraska View Job PSYCHOMETRICIAN * Ottawa, Canada * The Medical Council of Canada View Job Postdoctoral Research Fellowships in Education Policy and School Improvement * Riverside, California * University of California, Riverside View Job View All Jobs Be sure to update your resume on American Educational Research Association - AERA, so employers can contact you privately about job opportunities. Your email address has not been given to any third parties. You are receiving this email because you created a jobseeker profile on the American Educational Research Association - AERA. Unsubscribe. American Educational Research Association - AERA, 1430 K Street, NW, Suite 1200, Washington, Dist. Columbia 20005 ------------------------------ This email was sent to lchcmike@gmail.com. You are receiving this email because of your association with AERA. Click the following link to change your preference or opt out of AERA emails: preferences American Educational Research Association 1430 K Street, NW, Suite 1200 Washington, DC 20005 www.aera.net -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mark.yomogi@gmail.com Tue Aug 23 04:04:47 2016 From: mark.yomogi@gmail.com (Mark de Boer) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:04:47 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: xmca-l Digest, Vol 37, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello everyone, Again, thank you for your replies. I have not had internet for a few days, hence my delayed reply. Dear Martin, Thank you for the advice. I have taken a few days away from that part of the writing, going through the data again, and revisiting the interactions. This has helped put me back on track. The data is very complicated, to set up and follow the trail of interaction between students as well as identify the changes made from step to step has been very enlightening. For the moment I have eliminated all AT theory from my mind and going through the data once more. Message: 24 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 02:53:03 +0000 From: Martin John Packer Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Message-ID: <452899F5-04C3-4BA1-992D-E247EFF3D97C@uniandes.edu.co> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mark, I think what Greg and I are each pointing towards is that a line-by-line analysis, *guided* by theory, is going to provide more insight into what is going on than an attempt to ?prove? that it is one or another theoretical ?category' of dialogue. Martin Mike, Thank you for the article. I'm sure the mistake lies on my end, and as Martin has pointed out, I think I should revisit the data line by line to see what it is telling me. The discussions here have certainly put me along a different track, and I think much better train of thought and action. 3rd generation activity theory does appear to be a bit of overkill, I think I need to revisit not what is happening, but why is it happening? as a different approach. The idea that dynamic assessment is occurring between learners is not far-fetched, so I still think there is some sort of activity system. Mark -- > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I am > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > with my understanding. > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it form > disparate people! > > mike > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:32:59 -0600 > From: HENRY SHONERD > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: <18E7486D-60E0-404A-87B4-DB40703EFC67@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Mike, > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my own > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not ignorance, > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > Henry > > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > Mark -- > > > > I take "third generation activity theory" to involve interactions between > > activity systems in addition to the principles you enumerate. Perhaps I > am > > mistaken. A brief paper by Harry Daniels contains a summary that accords > > with my understanding. > > > > It can be confusing to ask for advice on xmca when you get a lot of it > form > > disparate people! > > > > mike > > > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/research/liw/resources/Models% > 20and%20principles%20of%20Activity%20Theory.pdf > > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Mark de Boer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 32 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:07:30 -0700 > From: mike cole > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > OCnmrKWoXg@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Perhaps, Henry. > > I thought that Mark was concentrating on the joint activity within a single > activity system. Perfectly fine. I was uncertain why he needed the > additional apparatus. > > mike > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 12:32 PM, HENRY SHONERD > wrote: > > > Mike, > > Figure 3 of Daniels, with its two triangles, depicts VISUALLY what you > > call ?interactions between activity systems??t Yet, if I am not mistaken, > > from that figure to the the final paragraph he describes IN WRITING > > interactions almost entirely within only ONE activity system at a time. > > Does this touch in any way on your qualifier: ?Perhaps I am mistaken.?? > > > > I ask this not only for theoretical reasons, but because in my life my > own > > commitments to projects have been very much affected by ?contending? > > projects. A prime example is the push and pull of what might be called > > neoliberal and more collectivist solutions to economic problems. In the > > 60s, as a grad student in economics at UC Berkeley, I was much more > > convinced of collectivist, centralized approaches than I am today. On the > > other hand, even Milton Friedman thought that some problems, education in > > particular, cannot be solved purely by market forces. > > > > I look at my previous paragraph and I realize that I am construing my > > journey (and Friedman?s?) as individual. The final paragraph of Daniels > > construes the journey as collective: "A full cycle of expansive > > transformation may be understood as a collective journey through the zone > > of proximal development of the activity.? It seems to me that the > > contending projects that students bring into the classroom, not > ignorance, > > make or break dialog in the classroom. > > > > Henry > > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 33 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:25:11 -0400 > From: Christopher Schuck > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Would the fact that Mark has been seeking help from a community whose work > partly involves understanding activity systems, and that we have been > discussing and becoming involved in his project, constitute the > introduction of an additional activity system and interaction with it? Or > would this be trivializing what it means for something to be an "activity > system? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Dear Greg, The level of the students is very low, although your comments certainly point out that some of the utterances should be easy enough to produce. Asynchronous dialogue provides (or should provide) the students with the opportunities to think about what they write before uploading. There is research that points to this, but the research tends to be on the question/answer, focus on form exercises with word count being one parameter. Although in this case, what I have been discovering is that the focus is no longer on the text in the forum, but instead on the object (files, speech script, data). The forum is the medium in which the basic message is relayed, and the object is the real focus. Looking at your text below, 1b or even 2 seem to be the most obvious in the data. The example I gave was not copied directly from the student data, the example was just an example, a framework so to speak of what the data was doing. > Message: 35 > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:03:18 -0600 > From: Greg Thompson > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 3rd generation activity theory > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Message-ID: > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Small point here Mark about the 5/6 transition, but as an American English > speaker, and given the further clarification that you just provided, I feel > like Student C's comment in 6 is lacking something about how to connect it > to what came before. I would have expected some kind of linking clause or > transition like "[to student B] that's a great idea. I am attaching a > poster..." > > I would suggest two possibilities for why this didn't happen: > 1a. this is a metapragmatic difference between their native tongue and > English. > 1b. they don't have the linguistic resources to accomplish this kind of > bridging (although "that's a great idea seems grammatically and > semantically simple enough that I would assume that, based on their other > utterances, would have been easy enough to produce). > 2. It is unnecessary given the medium in which they are working (i.e., the > collaborative nature of Student C's comment in 6 is obvious given what has > come before). > > Of course there may be others, but each of these options point to how > collaboration is mediated by the means of communication (whether the means > are metapragmatics, linguistic resources, or the medium of communication). > That doesn't get you to 3rd gen activity theory but it seems to be > something that is old school activity theory. It seems to be clearly there > in the data. What's more, it is this aspect of collaboration that is > entirely left out of many models of collaboration (see the virtual > communication system that Mike sent an email about shortly ago). > > Just one thought among many. > > -greg > > > From sukantamajumdar@aim.com Wed Aug 24 00:03:18 2016 From: sukantamajumdar@aim.com (Sukanta Majumdar) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 03:03:18 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Lewin's Field Theoretical vs Transcendental Phenology Message-ID: <156bb5c3a18-1130-add@webprd-m19.mail.aol.com> Does anybody have idea about: What is the difference between Kurt Lewin's Field Theoretical and Transcendental Phenomenology? Sukanta Majumdar From lpscholar2@gmail.com Wed Aug 24 10:43:02 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:43:02 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System Message-ID: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> This is an extension to the engagement with Rein Raud and the mention of various ways to approach identity, subjectivity, selfhood, and personhood. >From that conversation, one of the sources to consider (but not the preferred choice) was Vincent Colapietro?s book *Peirce?s Theory of the self: A Semiotic Perspective on Human Subjectivity* Vincent Colapietro draws attention to the *ambiguity* and tension in Peirce?s desire to be BOTH scientific and systematic. Dispositions that are out of step with many current ways of philosophizing. Peirce in correspondence with James confessed: Pluralism does not satisfy either my head or my heart. Yet in another letter to James he acknowledged his debt to Schelling noting: One thing I admire about him (Schelling) is his freedom from the trammels of system, and his holding himself UNCOMMITTED to any previous utterance. In that, he is like a scientific man. Vincent notices it is all too easy for those who have studied intensively the writings of Peirce to get so caught up in his *system* that they come to see it as a PLACE TO DWELL rather than a point from which to proceed. I share this as an expression (a creative expression) of the way the places where we dwell *institute* us. These ambiguous places from which we move back and forth (repetition) in order to DEVELOP our self, subjectivity, identity, personhood. This circles back to perizhevanie, ity, and I will add Merleau Ponty?s notion of *institution* (in contrast to constituting). The relation of subjectivity and objectivity and the (in between) This is the limit for a single post. I send this in anticipation of the next theme emerging - perezhivanie Sent from my Windows 10 phone From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Aug 24 13:33:28 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:33:28 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Postdoctoral Fellowship Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Super post doc Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Beth Warren* Date: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 Subject: Postdoctoral Fellowship Announcement To: Beth Warren Dear Colleagues, I am writing to share the attached announcement inviting applications for our Postdoctoral Fellowship in Education program. The program is a two-year residency with the Education Research Collaborative at TERC, and is focused broadly on transformative research on teaching and learning that intentionally seeks to expand formal and/or informal educational opportunities for children, youth and adults from historically underrepresented communities. We are particularly interested in research focused in the sciences, technology, engineering, or mathematics (STEM) or interdisciplinary/transdisciplinary studies across the sciences, mathematics, humanities, and arts. A distinctive feature of the program is strong and steady mentoring directed at supporting the development of fellows as early career scholars, with academic writing for publication and grant writing as main emphases. Past fellows have also had opportunities to teach as an integral part of mentors' research projects and at local universities. We would be grateful if you would distribute this announcement to your students and networks. Further information on the program can be found at: https://www.terc.edu/display/About/The+ERC+Postdoctoral+Fellowship Any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Thank you! Beth Beth Warren Co-Director Ch?che Konnen Center TERC 2067 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02140 Beth_Warren@terc.edu 617 873 9739 (tel) Associate Professor Literacy and Language School of Education Boston University bwarren@bu.edu -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ERC Fellowship Ad 2016.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 60132 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20160824/6949d49d/attachment.pdf From mcole@ucsd.edu Wed Aug 24 17:26:42 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 17:26:42 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System In-Reply-To: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> References: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: What is MP's idea of institution versus constitution, Larry? Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Wednesday, 24 August 2016 Subject: [Xmca-l] Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System To: eXtended Activity This is an extension to the engagement with Rein Raud and the mention of various ways to approach identity, subjectivity, selfhood, and personhood. >From that conversation, one of the sources to consider (but not the preferred choice) was Vincent Colapietro?s book *Peirce?s Theory of the self: A Semiotic Perspective on Human Subjectivity* Vincent Colapietro draws attention to the *ambiguity* and tension in Peirce?s desire to be BOTH scientific and systematic. Dispositions that are out of step with many current ways of philosophizing. Peirce in correspondence with James confessed: Pluralism does not satisfy either my head or my heart. Yet in another letter to James he acknowledged his debt to Schelling noting: One thing I admire about him (Schelling) is his freedom from the trammels of system, and his holding himself UNCOMMITTED to any previous utterance. In that, he is like a scientific man. Vincent notices it is all too easy for those who have studied intensively the writings of Peirce to get so caught up in his *system* that they come to see it as a PLACE TO DWELL rather than a point from which to proceed. I share this as an expression (a creative expression) of the way the places where we dwell *institute* us. These ambiguous places from which we move back and forth (repetition) in order to DEVELOP our self, subjectivity, identity, personhood. This circles back to perizhevanie, ity, and I will add Merleau Ponty?s notion of *institution* (in contrast to constituting). The relation of subjectivity and objectivity and the (in between) This is the limit for a single post. I send this in anticipation of the next theme emerging - perezhivanie Sent from my Windows 10 phone -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 25 09:07:26 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:07:26 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Full-time Instructor position in Developmental Psychology at the University of Calgary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: another job mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Susan Graham Date: Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 6:17 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Full-time Instructor position in Developmental Psychology at the University of Calgary To: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org *Instructor - Developmental Psychology. * The Faculty of Arts, Department of Psychology invites applications for a full-time limited-term (4-year) position at the rank of *Instructor*, in the area of *Developmental Psychology*. The anticipated start date is *July 1, 2017. * We are seeking a candidate who is focused on teaching and teaching innovation in the area of developmental psychology with a focus on child and/or adolescent human development. Preference will be given to applicants with a focus on social development; however, applicants with other areas of expertise within child/adolescent developmental psychology are encouraged to apply. Duties will include teaching at the undergraduate level including large, first- year courses as well as 3rd and 4th- year courses designed for our program majors. Participation in curriculum development and administrative duties, departmental and university service, and active support for our undergraduate program including mentoring and inspiring students in the subject area is expected. The successful candidate will have a Ph.D. in Developmental Psychology and demonstrate evidence of, or strong potential for, teaching effectiveness, experience in student mentoring, innovation in teaching at the university level, and facility with the use of technology in classroom instruction. Applications should be sent as a single .pdf document and must include a current curriculum vita, a statement of teaching philosophy, teaching dossier, up to three samples of peer- reviewed work that demonstrates integration of teaching and scholarly expertise, and the names and contact information for 3-5 referees. The materials should be sent electronically to ljwother@ucalgary.ca, directed to: *Chair, Developmental Search Committee * *Department of Psychology * *University of Calgary * *2500 University Drive NW * *Calgary, Alberta Canada T2N 1N4 * To ensure full consideration, complete applications must be received by *October 31, 2016. * For more information about the Department and the University of Calgary, please see our websites: http://psyc.ucalgary.ca/ and http://www.ucalgary.ca/. The Department of Psychology is administratively located within the Faculty of Arts (http://arts.ucalgary.ca/) at the University of Calgary. Susan A. Graham, Ph.D., R. Psych. Professor Dept. of Psychology Alberta Children's Hospital Research Institute Hotchkiss Brain Institute University of Calgary 403-220-7188 (office) 403-220-4955 (lab) http://psychology.ucalgary.ca/lcdlab/ _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From lpscholar2@gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:14:40 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:14:40 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System In-Reply-To: References: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57bf5fd2.0757420a.75dc3.f5c9@mx.google.com> Mike, The question: What is Merleau-Panty's notion of institution versus constitution? My answer will go through Kym Maclaren and how she developed an answer to this question. Kym Maclaren wrote a paper *The Entre-Deux of Emotions: Emotions As Institutions (available at academia.edu) that explores the way M-P in his book (The Phenomenology of Perception) used the term *constitution* to mean two different things ( two different meanings or relational notions). As his philosophy developed he came to distinguish the meaning of *constitution* from the meaning of *institution*. He elaborated this distinction in his lecture course on *institution*. (referred to as the *Institution Lectures*. Kym takes the meaning of institution developed in these lectures and turns back to the Phenomenology to show how M-P was at this earlier period using the same term *constitution* with two distinct meanings. He had not yet found the vocabulary to make a clear distinction between constitution and institution. I believe this distinction may be relevant in the coming conversation on the meaning of perezhevanie. Kym and M-P are moving away from a focus on either consciousness as primary or of the objective world as primary to refocus on the *entre-deux* (the in-between) as primary. This shift of focus where NOT a subject, but events, endow experience with *durable* or *crystallized* or *instituted* forms of meaning in relation to which (as themes) a whole series of other experiences will make sense (will form a thinkable sequel (a history). This institution is the creative endowment of meaningful dimensions that provide frameworks for further sense-making and this movement allows new perceptual objects to emerge/arise within experience. It is this creative movement M-P comes to call institution in his later Institution Lectures. The question then becomes: How do events do this work of instituting? Kym says M-P?s lectures on institution explicitly and clearly express the subterranean logic of institution at work in events. This logic is subterranean because it operates outside the knowledge & intentions of the subject. When institution occurs -when a new dimension of meaning (that sets the terms) for future development occurs ? we can then and only then see *retrospectively* how the past anticipated the future, anticipated this development, and answered the question posed by the past. When the question is posed the answer?s meaning is only potential, in the realm of the not-yet but could-be. What is central is that this perspective is *accessible* only from the standpoint of the new institution. ? only retrospectively.. The past did not contain it's own answer. The answer *exceeds* the past, transforms the very terms with which the past functioned and this answer could never have been predicted or forseen ? from THAT past. (even though it answers to THAT past). In other words, it is only retrospectively that it is even clear what we were asking (what question was being posed). In exchange for what we had imagined, life gives us something else (that M-P says was secretly wanted and subterranean). REALIZATION is not what was forseen, but all the same, was wanted or desired. THIS IS THE PLACE TO PAUSE AND STOP READING AS THE OPENING ANSWER TO MIKE?S QUESTION. Institution goes through events, not subjects or objects. To read on is my attempt to summarize Kym?s way of developing the notion of emotion as institution. I believe her approach has merit but I may be saying more than was asked. In Kym?s paper she 1st turns to two other forms of institution (artistic expression) and (perception) in order to show concretely how the logic of institution is distinct from the logic of constitution. I will not get to these concrete examples but will introduce the topic. Kym shows how this logic is already at work in the Phenomenology as a central theme. However, at this earlier point he referred to both logics as constituting logic. It is his quest to clarify these two distinct meanings of constitution that are worked out in the Institution lectures and institution is given its own vocabulary as distinct from the vocabulary of constitution I will give an outline of the points Kym Maclaren develops in her reflections on emotion as institution that critiques emotion as constitution: The notion of institution is the way in which M-P seeks to criticize intellectualism with it's idea of a constituting subject and offer an alternative account of subjectiv/ity that may be a resource for understanding perezhivanie and *ity*. Kym is asking us to think about emotion as institution. Emotional transformation on this institutional account needs to be understood as coming from *beyond* the subject, rather than being the result of the subject?s own autonomous powers.. For the constituting subject the meaning of its object comes into being on the basis of the subject?s own powers. The object is only a reflection of the powers and acts of that autonomous consciousness. In the place of this notion of a constituting subject M-P argues for a conception of a subject who animates him/her self with another meaning and this other meaning coming into form as transcendent meaning transforms the person who comes to dwell within this meaning. To dwell within the person?s *I think* and in his/her body is analogous to the way meaning dwells in a book or dwells in a cultural object. M-P is positing *meaningful cores* (themes?) that transcend and transfigure the persons natural powers and becoming powers of institution. These meaningful cores outstrip or overflow or *exceed* the subject and the subject is (caught up in) (dispossessed) or (exposed) by these transcendent meanings (beyond the self itself) However what is central, is that as this is occurring, the person is also taking up or resuming those transcendent meanings that help *realize* new ways of making sense of the world and others. A focus for M-P in all his work is a crtique of the philosophy of consciousness with it's central theme of a constituting subject and the language of constitution to express *coming to be*. In his earlier work he is still using the same term *constituting* to express these two distinct meanings. The intellectualist notion of coming to be AND also using *constitution* when speaking of a new way of coming to perceive a perceptual object. In the Institutional Lectures M-P develops a new language to speak of the coming to be of the institution of new meanings. Institutions occur within both public history & personal/intersubjective history as two sides of the same coin. Kym stays within the personal/intersubjective side in her paper and limits her reflections to the personal/intersubjective. There is a similar logic of institution at work in aesthetic expression, in perception, and in emotion as ways of creative expression. Institutions are those transformative moments in our lives when a new configuration of meaning and a new form of agency is developing. M-P is exploring the *subterranean* movement of this logic of institution. Key terms for M-P are *expression* and *perception* which involve not the constitution of a meaning by a subject but rather the institution of a *form* in the *in-between* of embodied being and environment. The institution of a form simultaneously transforms the situation and the embodied being rather than the form being simply constituted by that being. Kym Maclaren shows that the commonly held belief that an emotional subject is constituting others and situations in terms of the subjects own conscious emotions is suspect. In contrast Kym argues the emotional situation comes to be in the *in-between* (entre-deux) and is not the result of the subject?s own projection. An inherent feature of institution of forms is there own overcoming. So emotional institution of new emotions are transformations forming new emotions in response to the older crystallized emotions. Therefore the development of one?s emotional life is not primarily the result of an autonomous subject?s reflections and constitutions. Emotional institution rather emerges out of the subterranean logic worked out in the repetition and reiteration of the tension experienced within *old* institutions. The back and forth to earlier forms and emerging forms..Emotional transformation comes largely from beyond the subject, the situation of the event facilitating the subject to develop her subjectiv/ITY rather than being the result of her own autonomous constituting powers. M-P speaks of a subject investing and animating subjectiv/ity with another meaning that transforms the subject and which is transcendent to this person?s current subjectivi/ity. (i.e. Succeeds in making a meaning which dwells in her *I Think* and in her body as a meaning dwells in a book and a meaning dwells in a cultural object. In the Institution Lectures M-P develops a language that better emphasizes and clarifies the *passivity* of the subject and the ways in which the meaning that the subject realizes always *exceeds* the embodied subject. M-P is contrasting the inseparability of the instituting and instituted subject and contrasts this subject with the constituting subject. M-P by the time of the institution lectures has developed a systematic language for making the distinction between constitution and institution. The institution of the subject is the *coming to be* of a new form of subjectivity in the way we can talk of new forms *coming to be* such as (new perception, new emotion, new aesthetic expression, new object) that are becoming crystallized. In M-P?s earlier work (the Phenomenology of Perception) he is still conceiving the two ways of understanding the *emergence of meaning* as constitution. Institution remains more an operative concept as institution has not yet acquired a central core univocal voice (not yet a thematic voice in terms of which other concepts are measured). With the benefit of the Institution Lectures in hand, Kym Maclaren is able to go back to the Phenomenology of Perception book to show the logic of institution at work in this earlier book. To repeat: The constituting subject is the subject of (and conceived by) intellectualism who constitutes objects. In the Phenomenology book M-P is arguing for a different kind of *constitution* which in later works he refers to as *institution* because the sense of meaning achieved is not given by consciousness. The meaning *comes to be* in the embodied exchange between a self-in-the-making & an object-in-the-making. The coming-to-be of the subject is inseparable from the coming-to-be of the object. We are moving away from a focus on consciousness as primary or of the objective world as primary to a focus on the *in-between* (the entre-deux) as primary. Not a subject but *events* endow experience with durable dimensions in relation to which a whole series of other experiences will make sense. To repeat institution is: This endowment of a meaningful dimension that provides a framework for further sense-making and this allows new perceptual objects to emerge *within experience* is what in M-P?s later works he come to call *institution* The logic of institution is subterranean as events do this work of instituting meanings unforseen (repeat unforseen) by the subject involved because this logic operates outside the knowledge and intentions of that subject. When institution occurs ? when a new dimension of meaning that sets the terms for future developments occurs ? we can see *retrospectively* how the past *anticipated* this development, how this development responded to the past and *answered a question* posed by this past. An interesting note is where M-P places *errors* and *failures*. In exchange for what we imagined life gives us something else that was secretly wanted. Such realization (or epiphany) comes about through errors and failures. By means of a kind of blind groping on the part of a living subject, the subject is diverted through various impasses arrived at through various investigations. And it is only retrospectively (once again) that these inquiries REVEAL their common *theme* Somehow, and this is the marvel of institution ? all these errors and failures open up a space for a new realization, a new meaning. Errors open up a new space for a new realization can be put another way: Caught up in old crystallized institutions, we respond to the problems that present themselves by *repeating* in varios ways, those old ways of making sense. These repetitions disclose their own inadequacies, thereby opening up a space where something else, something new, something unknowingly awaited can announce itself. The event is that moment in which the openess that constitutes seeking without ever really knowing what the question is, something contingent arises as an occurence or an event ushering in a new way of life, a new way of seeing, a new configuration of meaning, a new institution. Thus, any particular institution tends or inclines (with the help of contingent happenings) towards the institutions own overcoming. Though an expression of the past, institution is inherently anticipating the future, which cannot be grasped except retrospectively. I will STOP here. Kym in her paper turns to concrete examples of human experiences to elaborate the notion of institution within artistic expression and perception. This in preparation for an understanding of emotion that follows this same logic of institution. I will just add that a logic of Eros can be explored through a logic of institution. To explore the somethings we love that becomes instituted in our deepest meanings. This proceeding extended think aloud also can be intertwined with Dewey?s (having an experience). What I have left unsaid is the relation of institution to perezhivanie. M-P may have something to contribute to that notion that is now coming into form To be continued .... The question of constitution versus institution is a topic for conversation Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole Sent: August 24, 2016 5:29 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System What is MP's idea of institution versus constitution, Larry? Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Wednesday, 24 August 2016 Subject: [Xmca-l] Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System To: eXtended Activity This is an extension to the engagement with Rein Raud and the mention of various ways to approach identity, subjectivity, selfhood, and personhood. >From that conversation, one of the sources to consider (but not the preferred choice) was Vincent Colapietro?s book *Peirce?s Theory of the self: A Semiotic Perspective on Human Subjectivity* Vincent Colapietro draws attention to the *ambiguity* and tension in Peirce?s desire to be BOTH scientific and systematic. Dispositions that are out of step with many current ways of philosophizing. Peirce in correspondence with James confessed: Pluralism does not satisfy either my head or my heart. Yet in another letter to James he acknowledged his debt to Schelling noting: One thing I admire about him (Schelling) is his freedom from the trammels of system, and his holding himself UNCOMMITTED to any previous utterance. In that, he is like a scientific man. Vincent notices it is all too easy for those who have studied intensively the writings of Peirce to get so caught up in his *system* that they come to see it as a PLACE TO DWELL rather than a point from which to proceed. I share this as an expression (a creative expression) of the way the places where we dwell *institute* us. These ambiguous places from which we move back and forth (repetition) in order to DEVELOP our self, subjectivity, identity, personhood. This circles back to perizhevanie, ity, and I will add Merleau Ponty?s notion of *institution* (in contrast to constituting). The relation of subjectivity and objectivity and the (in between) This is the limit for a single post. I send this in anticipation of the next theme emerging - perezhivanie Sent from my Windows 10 phone -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Thu Aug 25 15:34:45 2016 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:34:45 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System In-Reply-To: <57bf5fd2.0757420a.75dc3.f5c9@mx.google.com> References: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> , <57bf5fd2.0757420a.75dc3.f5c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1472164487862.40463@iped.uio.no> Larry, I always am amazed by the depth and width of your knowledgeability when it comes to phenomenological literature, and how you bring it to bear into CHAT related questions. Thanks so much for sharing it! I do totally agree that what you describe concerning institution and the primacy of the event is very relevant to the discussion on perezhivanie. Thanks for sharing Maclaren's reference, I will look at it with enthusiasm. Two associations immediately come to mind, however. The first one is Souriau's notion of *instauration*, which he discusses in the context of the artistic creation. Instead of a construction, which immediately presupposes a subject constructing and an object being constructed, instauration points to what I read you referring to as "entre-deux". Instauration in Souriua may be (I have not yet tested this hypothesis) akin to institution in the way you (Kym, M-P) describe it. In instauration, there is not something internal to the person that then becomes externalized in the situation; rather the "dramatic event" is primary over person and situation, it provides for both, so that "What made Michelangelo or Beethoven great, what made them geniuses, was not their own genius, but their attention to the qualities of genius residing in the work" (Souriau, 2015, p 211). The second notion that comes to mind (again, before I have properly dwelled into the issues you bring up), and one that is totally relevant to the question of perezhivanie, is Politzer's idea of drama as a fundamental category in the establishment of a scientific psychology. According to Politzer (1928), who had an important influence in Vygotsky (see, for example, Vygotsky's 1989 Concrete Human Psychology), the "psychological fact" cannot be something that is accounted for by a first person ("je") in the abstract (neither the empiricist "I," nor the trascendental "I"). Instead, it has to be with regard to the dramatic event that the *particular individual* [segments de la vie de l'individu particulier], the unity of which cannot be broken without loosing the psychological signification of any psychological fact. The reminiscences to Dewey's notion of *an* experience are obvious. If perezhivanie has anything to do with the unity of person and environment, I think the idea of attending to the primacy of the [instauration/institution] of events should be productive. For all that matters to advancing Vygotsky's legacy, I would like to explore how all these ideas relate to Vygotsky's concern with the problem of consciousness, and particularly with his remarks that: "Consciousness arises out of life and forms only one of its features. But once awakened, thought itself defines life. Or more accurately, a thinking life defines itself through consciousness" (Vygotsky, 1993, p. 237). If there is something like a thinking life, must not be that of dramatic events? And if so, does not that give us a very concrete set of research questions that (in my humble view) are not addressed when the focus seems more often to be on artifacts, objects, etc? Like, for example, how do events begin? how do they end? I think all those questions relate to perezhivanie and belong to a psychology a la Vygotsky that, I think, is quite unexplored. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of lpscholar2@gmail.com Sent: 25 August 2016 23:14 To: mike cole; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System Mike, The question: What is Merleau-Panty's notion of institution versus constitution? My answer will go through Kym Maclaren and how she developed an answer to this question. Kym Maclaren wrote a paper *The Entre-Deux of Emotions: Emotions As Institutions (available at academia.edu) that explores the way M-P in his book (The Phenomenology of Perception) used the term *constitution* to mean two different things ( two different meanings or relational notions). As his philosophy developed he came to distinguish the meaning of *constitution* from the meaning of *institution*. He elaborated this distinction in his lecture course on *institution*. (referred to as the *Institution Lectures*. Kym takes the meaning of institution developed in these lectures and turns back to the Phenomenology to show how M-P was at this earlier period using the same term *constitution* with two distinct meanings. He had not yet found the vocabulary to make a clear distinction between constitution and institution. I believe this distinction may be relevant in the coming conversation on the meaning of perezhevanie. Kym and M-P are moving away from a focus on either consciousness as primary or of the objective world as primary to refocus on the *entre-deux* (the in-between) as primary. This shift of focus where NOT a subject, but events, endow experience with *durable* or *crystallized* or *instituted* forms of meaning in relation to which (as themes) a whole series of other experiences will make sense (will form a thinkable sequel (a history). This institution is the creative endowment of meaningful dimensions that provide frameworks for further sense-making and this movement allows new perceptual objects to emerge/arise within experience. It is this creative movement M-P comes to call institution in his later Institution Lectures. The question then becomes: How do events do this work of instituting? Kym says M-P?s lectures on institution explicitly and clearly express the subterranean logic of institution at work in events. This logic is subterranean because it operates outside the knowledge & intentions of the subject. When institution occurs -when a new dimension of meaning (that sets the terms) for future development occurs ? we can then and only then see *retrospectively* how the past anticipated the future, anticipated this development, and answered the question posed by the past. When the question is posed the answer?s meaning is only potential, in the realm of the not-yet but could-be. What is central is that this perspective is *accessible* only from the standpoint of the new institution. ? only retrospectively.. The past did not contain it's own answer. The answer *exceeds* the past, transforms the very terms with which the past functioned and this answer could never have been predicted or forseen ? from THAT past. (even though it answers to THAT past). In other words, it is only retrospectively that it is even clear what we were asking (what question was being posed). In exchange for what we had imagined, life gives us something else (that M-P says was secretly wanted and subterranean). REALIZATION is not what was forseen, but all the same, was wanted or desired. The ?Entre-Deux? of Emotions: Emotions as Institutions.THIS IS THE PLACE TO PAUSE AND STOP READING AS THE OPENING ANSWER TO MIKE?S QUESTION. Institution goes through events, not subjects or objects. To read on is my attempt to summarize Kym?s way of developing the notion of emotion as institution. I believe her approach has merit but I may be saying more than was asked. In Kym?s paper she 1st turns to two other forms of institution (artistic expression) and (perception) in order to show concretely how the logic of institution is distinct from the logic of constitution. I will not get to these concrete examples but will introduce the topic. Kym shows how this logic is already at work in the Phenomenology as a central theme. However, at this earlier point he referred to both logics as constituting logic. It is his quest to clarify these two distinct meanings of constitution that are worked out in the Institution lectures and institution is given its own vocabulary as distinct from the vocabulary of constitution I will give an outline of the points Kym Maclaren develops in her reflections on emotion as institution that critiques emotion as constitution: The notion of institution is the way in which M-P seeks to criticize intellectualism with it's idea of a constituting subject and offer an alternative account of subjectiv/ity that may be a resource for understanding perezhivanie and *ity*. Kym is asking us to think about emotion as institution. Emotional transformation on this institutional account needs to be understood as coming from *beyond* the subject, rather than being the result of the subject?s own autonomous powers.. For the constituting subject the meaning of its object comes into being on the basis of the subject?s own powers. The object is only a reflection of the powers and acts of that autonomous consciousness. In the place of this notion of a constituting subject M-P argues for a conception of a subject who animates him/her self with another meaning and this other meaning coming into form as transcendent meaning transforms the person who comes to dwell within this meaning. To dwell within the person?s *I think* and in his/her body is analogous to the way meaning dwells in a book or dwells in a cultural object. M-P is positing *meaningful cores* (themes?) that transcend and transfigure the persons natural powers and becoming powers of institution. These meaningful cores outstrip or overflow or *exceed* the subject and the subject is (caught up in) (dispossessed) or (exposed) by these transcendent meanings (beyond the self itself) However what is central, is that as this is occurring, the person is also taking up or resuming those transcendent meanings that help *realize* new ways of making sense of the world and others. A focus for M-P in all his work is a crtique of the philosophy of consciousness with it's central theme of a constituting subject and the language of constitution to express *coming to be*. In his earlier work he is still using the same term *constituting* to express these two distinct meanings. The intellectualist notion of coming to be AND also using *constitution* when speaking of a new way of coming to perceive a perceptual object. In the Institutional Lectures M-P develops a new language to speak of the coming to be of the institution of new meanings. Institutions occur within both public history & personal/intersubjective history as two sides of the same coin. Kym stays within the personal/intersubjective side in her paper and limits her reflections to the personal/intersubjective. There is a similar logic of institution at work in aesthetic expression, in perception, and in emotion as ways of creative expression. Institutions are those transformative moments in our lives when a new configuration of meaning and a new form of agency is developing. M-P is exploring the *subterranean* movement of this logic of institution. Key terms for M-P are *expression* and *perception* which involve not the constitution of a meaning by a subject but rather the institution of a *form* in the *in-between* of embodied being and environment. The institution of a form simultaneously transforms the situation and the embodied being rather than the form being simply constituted by that being. Kym Maclaren shows that the commonly held belief that an emotional subject is constituting others and situations in terms of the subjects own conscious emotions is suspect. In contrast Kym argues the emotional situation comes to be in the *in-between* (entre-deux) and is not the result of the subject?s own projection. An inherent feature of institution of forms is there own overcoming. So emotional institution of new emotions are transformations forming new emotions in response to the older crystallized emotions. Therefore the development of one?s emotional life is not primarily the result of an autonomous subject?s reflections and constitutions. Emotional institution rather emerges out of the subterranean logic worked out in the repetition and reiteration of the tension experienced within *old* institutions. The back and forth to earlier forms and emerging forms..Emotional transformation comes largely from beyond the subject, the situation of the event facilitating the subject to develop her subjectiv/ITY rather than being the result of her own autonomous constituting powers. M-P speaks of a subject investing and animating subjectiv/ity with another meaning that transforms the subject and which is transcendent to this person?s current subjectivi/ity. (i.e. Succeeds in making a meaning which dwells in her *I Think* and in her body as a meaning dwells in a book and a meaning dwells in a cultural object. In the Institution Lectures M-P develops a language that better emphasizes and clarifies the *passivity* of the subject and the ways in which the meaning that the subject realizes always *exceeds* the embodied subject. M-P is contrasting the inseparability of the instituting and instituted subject and contrasts this subject with the constituting subject. M-P by the time of the institution lectures has developed a systematic language for making the distinction between constitution and institution. The institution of the subject is the *coming to be* of a new form of subjectivity in the way we can talk of new forms *coming to be* such as (new perception, new emotion, new aesthetic expression, new object) that are becoming crystallized. In M-P?s earlier work (the Phenomenology of Perception) he is still conceiving the two ways of understanding the *emergence of meaning* as constitution. Institution remains more an operative concept as institution has not yet acquired a central core univocal voice (not yet a thematic voice in terms of which other concepts are measured). With the benefit of the Institution Lectures in hand, Kym Maclaren is able to go back to the Phenomenology of Perception book to show the logic of institution at work in this earlier book. To repeat: The constituting subject is the subject of (and conceived by) intellectualism who constitutes objects. In the Phenomenology book M-P is arguing for a different kind of *constitution* which in later works he refers to as *institution* because the sense of meaning achieved is not given by consciousness. The meaning *comes to be* in the embodied exchange between a self-in-the-making & an object-in-the-making. The coming-to-be of the subject is inseparable from the coming-to-be of the object. We are moving away from a focus on consciousness as primary or of the objective world as primary to a focus on the *in-between* (the entre-deux) as primary. Not a subject but *events* endow experience with durable dimensions in relation to which a whole series of other experiences will make sense. To repeat institution is: This endowment of a meaningful dimension that provides a framework for further sense-making and this allows new perceptual objects to emerge *within experience* is what in M-P?s later works he come to call *institution* The logic of institution is subterranean as events do this work of instituting meanings unforseen (repeat unforseen) by the subject involved because this logic operates outside the knowledge and intentions of that subject. When institution occurs ? when a new dimension of meaning that sets the terms for future developments occurs ? we can see *retrospectively* how the past *anticipated* this development, how this development responded to the past and *answered a question* posed by this past. An interesting note is where M-P places *errors* and *failures*. In exchange for what we imagined life gives us something else that was secretly wanted. Such realization (or epiphany) comes about through errors and failures. By means of a kind of blind groping on the part of a living subject, the subject is diverted through various impasses arrived at through various investigations. And it is only retrospectively (once again) that these inquiries REVEAL their common *theme* Somehow, and this is the marvel of institution ? all these errors and failures open up a space for a new realization, a new meaning. Errors open up a new space for a new realization can be put another way: Caught up in old crystallized institutions, we respond to the problems that present themselves by *repeating* in varios ways, those old ways of making sense. These repetitions disclose their own inadequacies, thereby opening up a space where something else, something new, something unknowingly awaited can announce itself. The event is that moment in which the openess that constitutes seeking without ever really knowing what the question is, something contingent arises as an occurence or an event ushering in a new way of life, a new way of seeing, a new configuration of meaning, a new institution. Thus, any particular institution tends or inclines (with the help of contingent happenings) towards the institutions own overcoming. Though an expression of the past, institution is inherently anticipating the future, which cannot be grasped except retrospectively. I will STOP here. Kym in her paper turns to concrete examples of human experiences to elaborate the notion of institution within artistic expression and perception. This in preparation for an understanding of emotion that follows this same logic of institution. I will just add that a logic of Eros can be explored through a logic of institution. To explore the somethings we love that becomes instituted in our deepest meanings. This proceeding extended think aloud also can be intertwined with Dewey?s (having an experience). What I have left unsaid is the relation of institution to perezhivanie. M-P may have something to contribute to that notion that is now coming into form To be continued .... The question of constitution versus institution is a topic for conversation Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole Sent: August 24, 2016 5:29 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System What is MP's idea of institution versus constitution, Larry? Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Wednesday, 24 August 2016 Subject: [Xmca-l] Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System To: eXtended Activity This is an extension to the engagement with Rein Raud and the mention of various ways to approach identity, subjectivity, selfhood, and personhood. >From that conversation, one of the sources to consider (but not the preferred choice) was Vincent Colapietro?s book *Peirce?s Theory of the self: A Semiotic Perspective on Human Subjectivity* Vincent Colapietro draws attention to the *ambiguity* and tension in Peirce?s desire to be BOTH scientific and systematic. Dispositions that are out of step with many current ways of philosophizing. Peirce in correspondence with James confessed: Pluralism does not satisfy either my head or my heart. Yet in another letter to James he acknowledged his debt to Schelling noting: One thing I admire about him (Schelling) is his freedom from the trammels of system, and his holding himself UNCOMMITTED to any previous utterance. In that, he is like a scientific man. Vincent notices it is all too easy for those who have studied intensively the writings of Peirce to get so caught up in his *system* that they come to see it as a PLACE TO DWELL rather than a point from which to proceed. I share this as an expression (a creative expression) of the way the places where we dwell *institute* us. These ambiguous places from which we move back and forth (repetition) in order to DEVELOP our self, subjectivity, identity, personhood. This circles back to perizhevanie, ity, and I will add Merleau Ponty?s notion of *institution* (in contrast to constituting). The relation of subjectivity and objectivity and the (in between) This is the limit for a single post. I send this in anticipation of the next theme emerging - perezhivanie Sent from my Windows 10 phone -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Thu Aug 25 16:37:44 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:37:44 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System In-Reply-To: <57bf5fd2.0757420a.75dc3.f5c9@mx.google.com> References: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> <57bf5fd2.0757420a.75dc3.f5c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks very much for that extended discussion of constitution and institution, Larry. Unfortunately, I am not as versed as you or Alfredo in phenomenology so I can only keep asking my xmca101-style questions. I have the *Phenomenology of Perception*, but not those lectures you refer to which I gather are titled *Institution and Passivity. *I also downloaded the Maclaren article which I have read through, but remain stuck back near the starting gate. I can see several ideas that I recognize and perhaps appreciate to a small extent. The idea of entre-deux is strongly reminiscent of Vygotsky's comment at the end of the *Thinking and Speech:* ?In consciousness, the word is what *?? *in Feuerbach?s words *?? *is absolutely impossible for one person but possible for two. The word is the most direct manifestation of the historical nature of human consciousness? (Coll. Works, Vol. 1, p. 285). I still have not put my mind around connecting this thought with the thought quoted by Alfredo: "Consciousness arises out of life and forms only one of its features. But once awakened, thought itself defines life. Or more accurately, a thinking life defines itself through consciousness" (Vygotsky, 1993, p. 237). In trying to understand your, M-P's, and Maclearen's ideas I struggle with the definition (theory) of constitution which it seems I have to understand well in order to understand how the term institution is being used. You and Maclearen spend more time talking about institution and I am getting hung up on what is mean there. I gather what is being critiqued is a notion of constitution that has an individual agent making something up. This is what I take away from A focus for M-P in all his work is a critique of the philosophy of consciousness with it's central theme of a constituting subject and the language of constitution to express **coming to be**. In his earlier work he is still using the same term **constituting** to express these two distinct meanings. The intellectualist notion of coming to be AND also using **constitution** when speaking of a new way of coming to perceive a perceptual object. My own history of experience of the word constitution does not have the strong "intellectualist bias" of assuming a constituting subject. Rather, it seems closer to this definition cadged from the OED: The way in which anything is constituted or made up; the arrangement or combination of its parts or elements, as determining its nature and character; make, frame, composition. *constitution of nature*, *constitution of the world*, *constitution of the universe*, *constitution of things* (the actual existing order); so *constitution of society*, etc. In this sort of definition, there is no claim about a constituting subject. Rather, it seems compatible, at least, with Maclearen's account when she writes: This account of emotion proposes itself as a refutation of a philosophy of consciousness and the idea of a constituting subject. *For the emotional institutions that are realized in our lives constitute us as much as or more than we constitute them;* I have not been able to figure out what it means when Maclearen writes that *the dialectic that these institutions undergo *is a process driven not by self-reflection and the subject?s unilateral constitution of meaning, but by contingency, repetition, and the indeterminate but fundamental question that our being in the world with others both poses and secretly, implicitly, ambiguously strives to work out. I'll try to resolve these questions so that I can link up more effectively with a lot in your message and the discussion of the centrality of events along with Alfredo's invocation of Politzer that I have long thought important. Any help you can offer with respect to constituting gratefully accepted. mike On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:14 PM, wrote: > Mike, > > The question: > > What is Merleau-Panty's notion of institution versus constitution? > > My answer will go through Kym Maclaren and how she developed an answer to > this question. > > Kym Maclaren wrote a paper *The Entre-Deux of Emotions: Emotions As > Institutions (available at academia.edu) that explores the way M-P in his > book (The Phenomenology of Perception) used the term **constitution** to > mean two different things ( two different meanings or relational notions). > As his philosophy developed he came to distinguish the meaning of * > *constitution** from the meaning of **institution**. He elaborated this > distinction in his lecture course on **institution**. (referred to as the > **Institution Lectures**. > > Kym takes the meaning of institution developed in these lectures and turns > back to the Phenomenology to show how M-P was at this earlier period using > the same term **constitution** with two distinct meanings. He had not > yet found the vocabulary to make a clear distinction between constitution > and institution. > > I believe this distinction may be relevant in the coming conversation on > the meaning of perezhevanie. > > > > Kym and M-P are moving away from a focus on either consciousness as > primary or of the objective world as primary to refocus on the * > *entre-deux** (the in-between) as primary. This shift of focus where NOT > a subject, but events, endow experience with **durable** or * > *crystallized** or **instituted** forms of meaning in relation to which > (as themes) a whole series of other experiences will make sense (will form > a thinkable sequel (a history). > > This institution is the creative endowment of meaningful dimensions that > provide frameworks for further sense-making and this movement allows new > perceptual objects to emerge/arise within experience. It is this creative > movement M-P comes to call institution in his later Institution Lectures. > > > > The question then becomes: > > > > How do events do this work of instituting? Kym says M-P?s lectures on > institution explicitly and clearly express the subterranean logic of > institution at work in events. This logic is subterranean because it > operates outside the knowledge & intentions of the subject. > > > > When institution occurs -when a new dimension of meaning (that sets the > terms) for future development occurs ? we can then and only then see * > *retrospectively** how the past anticipated the future, anticipated this > development, and answered the question posed by the past. When the question > is posed the answer?s meaning is only potential, in the realm of the > not-yet but could-be. > > What is central is that this perspective is **accessible** only from the > standpoint of the new institution. ? only retrospectively.. The past did > not contain it's own answer. The answer **exceeds** the past, transforms > the very terms with which the past functioned and this answer could never > have been predicted or forseen ? from THAT past. (even though it answers to > THAT past). > > In other words, it is only retrospectively that it is even clear what we > were asking (what question was being posed). > > > > In exchange for what we had imagined, life gives us something else (that > M-P says was secretly wanted and subterranean). REALIZATION is not what was > forseen, but all the same, was wanted or desired. > > > > THIS IS THE PLACE TO PAUSE AND STOP READING AS THE OPENING ANSWER TO > MIKE?S QUESTION. Institution goes through events, not subjects or objects. > To read on is my attempt to summarize Kym?s way of developing the notion > of emotion as institution. I believe her approach has merit but I may be > saying more than was asked. > > > > > > In Kym?s paper she 1st turns to two other forms of institution (artistic > expression) and (perception) in order to show concretely how the logic of > institution is distinct from the logic of constitution. I will not get to > these concrete examples but will introduce the topic. > > > > Kym shows how this logic is already at work in the Phenomenology as a > central theme. However, at this earlier point he referred to both logics as > constituting logic. It is his quest to clarify these two distinct meanings > of constitution that are worked out in the Institution lectures and > institution is given its own vocabulary as distinct from the vocabulary of > constitution > > > > I will give an outline of the points Kym Maclaren develops in her > reflections on emotion as institution that critiques emotion as > constitution: > > The notion of institution is the way in which M-P seeks to criticize > intellectualism with it's idea of a constituting subject and offer an > alternative account of subjectiv/ity that may be a resource for > understanding perezhivanie and **ity**. > > Kym is asking us to think about emotion as institution. Emotional > transformation on this institutional account needs to be understood as > coming from **beyond** the subject, rather than being the result of the > subject?s own autonomous powers.. > > > > For the constituting subject the meaning of its object comes into being on > the basis of the subject?s own powers. The object is only a reflection of > the powers and acts of that autonomous consciousness. > > > > In the place of this notion of a constituting subject M-P argues for a > conception of a subject who animates him/her self with another meaning and > this other meaning coming into form as transcendent meaning transforms the > person who comes to dwell within this meaning. > > To dwell within the person?s **I think** and in his/her body is analogous > to the way meaning dwells in a book or dwells in a cultural object. > > M-P is positing **meaningful cores** (themes?) that transcend and > transfigure the persons natural powers and becoming powers of institution. > These meaningful cores outstrip or overflow or **exceed** the subject and > the subject is (caught up in) (dispossessed) or (exposed) by these > transcendent meanings (beyond the self itself) > > However what is central, is that as this is occurring, the person is also > taking up or resuming those transcendent meanings that help **realize** > new ways of making sense of the world and others. > > > > A focus for M-P in all his work is a crtique of the philosophy of > consciousness with it's central theme of a constituting subject and the > language of constitution to express **coming to be**. In his earlier work > he is still using the same term **constituting** to express these two > distinct meanings. The intellectualist notion of coming to be AND also > using **constitution** when speaking of a new way of coming to perceive > a perceptual object. > > In the Institutional Lectures M-P develops a new language to speak of the > coming to be of the institution of new meanings. > > Institutions occur within both public history & personal/intersubjective > history as two sides of the same coin. Kym stays within the > personal/intersubjective side in her paper and limits her reflections to > the personal/intersubjective. > > > > There is a similar logic of institution at work in aesthetic expression, > in perception, and in emotion as ways of creative expression. > > Institutions are those transformative moments in our lives when a new > configuration of meaning and a new form of agency is developing. M-P is > exploring the **subterranean** movement of this logic of institution. > > Key terms for M-P are **expression** and **perception** which involve not > the constitution of a meaning by a subject but rather the institution of a * > *form** in the **in-between** of embodied being and environment. > > The institution of a form simultaneously transforms the situation and the > embodied being rather than the form being simply constituted by that being. > > Kym Maclaren shows that the commonly held belief that an emotional subject > is constituting others and situations in terms of the subjects own > conscious emotions is suspect. > > In contrast Kym argues the emotional situation comes to be in the * > *in-between** (entre-deux) and is not the result of the subject?s own > projection. > > > > An inherent feature of institution of forms is there own overcoming. So > emotional institution of new emotions are transformations forming new > emotions in response to the older crystallized emotions. > > Therefore the development of one?s emotional life is not primarily the > result of an autonomous subject?s reflections and constitutions. Emotional > institution rather emerges out of the subterranean logic worked out in the > repetition and reiteration of the tension experienced within **old** > institutions. The back and forth to earlier forms and emerging > forms..Emotional transformation comes largely from beyond the subject, the > situation of the event facilitating the subject to develop her > subjectiv/ITY rather than being the result of her own autonomous > constituting powers. > > M-P speaks of a subject investing and animating subjectiv/ity with another > meaning that transforms the subject and which is transcendent to this > person?s current subjectivi/ity. (i.e. Succeeds in making a meaning which > dwells in her **I Think** and in her body as a meaning dwells in a book > and a meaning dwells in a cultural object. > > > > In the Institution Lectures M-P develops a language that better emphasizes > and clarifies the **passivity** of the subject and the ways in which the > meaning that the subject realizes always **exceeds** the embodied subject. > > M-P is contrasting the inseparability of the instituting and instituted > subject and contrasts this subject with the constituting subject. M-P by > the time of the institution lectures has developed a systematic language > for making the distinction between constitution and institution. The > institution of the subject is the **coming to be** of a new form of > subjectivity in the way we can talk of new forms **coming to be** such > as (new perception, new emotion, new aesthetic expression, new object) > that are becoming crystallized. > > > > In M-P?s earlier work (the Phenomenology of Perception) he is still > conceiving the two ways of understanding the **emergence of meaning** as > constitution. Institution remains more an operative concept as institution > has not yet acquired a central core univocal voice (not yet a thematic > voice in terms of which other concepts are measured). With the benefit of > the Institution Lectures in hand, Kym Maclaren is able to go back to the > Phenomenology of Perception book to show the logic of institution at work > in this earlier book. > > > > To repeat: The constituting subject is the subject of (and conceived by) > intellectualism who constitutes objects. > > In the Phenomenology book M-P is arguing for a different kind of * > *constitution** which in later works he refers to as **institution** > because the sense of meaning achieved is not given by consciousness. The > meaning **comes to be** in the embodied exchange between a > self-in-the-making & an object-in-the-making. The coming-to-be of the > subject is inseparable from the coming-to-be of the object. > > > > We are moving away from a focus on consciousness as primary or of the > objective world as primary to a focus on the **in-between** (the > entre-deux) as primary. > > > > Not a subject but **events** endow experience with durable dimensions in > relation to which a whole series of other experiences will make sense. > > > > To repeat institution is: > > This endowment of a meaningful dimension that provides a framework for > further sense-making and this allows new perceptual objects to emerge **within > experience** is what in M-P?s later works he come to call **institution** > > > > The logic of institution is subterranean as events do this work of > instituting meanings unforseen (repeat unforseen) by the subject involved > because this logic operates outside the knowledge and intentions of that > subject. > > When institution occurs ? when a new dimension of meaning that sets the > terms for future developments occurs ? we can see **retrospectively** how > the past **anticipated** this development, how this development responded > to the past and **answered a question** posed by this past. > > > > An interesting note is where M-P places **errors** and **failures**. In > exchange for what we imagined life gives us something else that was > secretly wanted. Such realization (or epiphany) comes about through errors > and failures. By means of a kind of blind groping on the part of a living > subject, the subject is diverted through various impasses arrived at > through various investigations. And it is only retrospectively (once again) > that these inquiries REVEAL their common **theme** > > > > Somehow, and this is the marvel of institution ? all these errors and > failures open up a space for a new realization, a new meaning. Errors open > up a new space for a new realization can be put another way: > > Caught up in old crystallized institutions, we respond to the problems > that present themselves by **repeating** in varios ways, those old ways > of making sense. These repetitions disclose their own inadequacies, thereby > opening up a space where something else, something new, something > unknowingly awaited can announce itself. > > > > The event is that moment in which the openess that constitutes seeking > without ever really knowing what the question is, something contingent > arises as an occurence or an event ushering in a new way of life, a new way > of seeing, a new configuration of meaning, a new institution. > > > > Thus, any particular institution tends or inclines (with the help of > contingent happenings) towards the institutions own overcoming. Though an > expression of the past, institution is inherently anticipating the future, > which cannot be grasped except retrospectively. > > > > I will STOP here. Kym in her paper turns to concrete examples of human > experiences to elaborate the notion of institution within artistic > expression and perception. This in preparation for an understanding of > emotion that follows this same logic of institution. > > I will just add that a logic of Eros can be explored through a logic of > institution. > > To explore the somethings we love that becomes instituted in our deepest > meanings. > > > > This proceeding extended think aloud also can be intertwined with Dewey?s > (having an experience). What I have left unsaid is the relation of > institution to perezhivanie. M-P may have something to contribute to that > notion that is now coming into form > > To be continued .... > > The question of constitution versus institution is a topic for conversation > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > *From: *mike cole > *Sent: *August 24, 2016 5:29 PM > *To: *eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System > > > > What is MP's idea of institution versus constitution, Larry? > > Mike > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: > > Date: Wednesday, 24 August 2016 > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System > > To: eXtended Activity > > > > > > This is an extension to the engagement with Rein Raud and the mention of > > various ways to approach identity, subjectivity, selfhood, and personhood. > > >From that conversation, one of the sources to consider (but not the > > preferred choice) was Vincent Colapietro?s book *Peirce?s Theory of the > > self: A Semiotic Perspective on Human Subjectivity* > > > > Vincent Colapietro draws attention to the *ambiguity* and tension in > > Peirce?s desire to be BOTH scientific and systematic. Dispositions that are > > out of step with many current ways of philosophizing. > > > > Peirce in correspondence with James confessed: > > Pluralism does not satisfy either my head or my heart. > > Yet in another letter to James he acknowledged his debt to Schelling > noting: > > One thing I admire about him (Schelling) is his freedom from the trammels > > of system, and his holding himself UNCOMMITTED to any previous utterance. > > In that, he is like a scientific man. > > > > Vincent notices it is all too easy for those who have studied intensively > > the writings of Peirce to get so caught up in his *system* that they come > > to see it as a PLACE TO DWELL rather than a point from which to proceed. > > > > I share this as an expression (a creative expression) of the way the places > > where we dwell *institute* us. These ambiguous places from which we move > > back and forth (repetition) in order to DEVELOP our self, subjectivity, > > identity, personhood. > > This circles back to perizhevanie, ity, and I will add Merleau Ponty?s > > notion of *institution* (in contrast to constituting). > > The relation of subjectivity and objectivity and the (in between) > > > > This is the limit for a single post. I send this in anticipation of the > > next theme emerging - perezhivanie > > > > > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi Fri Aug 26 08:22:50 2016 From: jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi (=?utf-8?Q?Jaakko_Hilpp=C3=B6?=) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:22:50 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_Per?= =?utf-8?q?so=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= Message-ID: Dear fellow list members, I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too :) of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the 1978 english translation of the book. Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? Thanks for any leads on the matter! Jake :) Jaakko Hilpp? jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu Post Doctoral Fellow FUSE https://www.fusestudio.net LIME Research Lab Walter Annenberg Hall 2120 Campus Drive Evanston, Illinois 60208 224.432.4400 www.sesp.northwestern.edu From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 26 08:27:01 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:27:01 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it does not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East European psych if someone sends a pdf. mike On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? wrote: > Dear fellow list members, > > I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too :) > of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, > personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische > Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the 1978 > english translation of the book. > > Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? > > Thanks for any leads on the matter! > Jake :) > > > Jaakko Hilpp? > jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu > Post Doctoral Fellow > > FUSE > https://www.fusestudio.net > > LIME Research Lab > Walter Annenberg Hall > 2120 Campus Drive > Evanston, Illinois 60208 > 224.432.4400 > www.sesp.northwestern.edu -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From ablunden@mira.net Fri Aug 26 08:32:18 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 01:32:18 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3c4a7eac-94fc-3cde-6402-b3700d721500@mira.net> https://www.marxists.org/archive/leontev/works/1978/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 27/08/2016 1:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? wrote: > Dear fellow list members, > > I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too :) of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the 1978 english translation of the book. > > Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? > > Thanks for any leads on the matter! > Jake :) > > > Jaakko Hilpp? > jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu > Post Doctoral Fellow > > FUSE > https://www.fusestudio.net > > LIME Research Lab > Walter Annenberg Hall > 2120 Campus Drive > Evanston, Illinois 60208 > 224.432.4400 > www.sesp.northwestern.edu > From jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi Fri Aug 26 08:31:12 2016 From: jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi (=?utf-8?Q?Jaakko_Hilpp=C3=B6?=) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:31:12 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> Hi Mike, Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is available at www.marxists.org https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf If it could be translated, that would be great! Jake :) > mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello 10.27: > > Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it does > not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East European > psych if someone sends a pdf. > > mike > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? > wrote: > >> Dear fellow list members, >> >> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too :) >> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, >> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische >> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the 1978 >> english translation of the book. >> >> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? >> >> Thanks for any leads on the matter! >> Jake :) >> >> >> Jaakko Hilpp? >> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu >> Post Doctoral Fellow >> >> FUSE >> https://www.fusestudio.net >> >> LIME Research Lab >> Walter Annenberg Hall >> 2120 Campus Drive >> Evanston, Illinois 60208 >> 224.432.4400 >> www.sesp.northwestern.edu > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 26 08:39:02 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:39:02 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> References: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: Jaako/Andy-- Seems like we should be able to access the Russian so that we do not have more games of translations of translations. Who has a Russian copy of the book so we can get that chapter?? mike On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? wrote: > Hi Mike, > > > Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is available at > www.marxists.org > > https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/ > anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf > > If it could be translated, that would be great! > > Jake :) > > > mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello 10.27: > > > > Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it does > > not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East European > > psych if someone sends a pdf. > > > > mike > > > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < > jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi> > > wrote: > > > >> Dear fellow list members, > >> > >> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too > :) > >> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, > >> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische > >> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the > 1978 > >> english translation of the book. > >> > >> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? > >> > >> Thanks for any leads on the matter! > >> Jake :) > >> > >> > >> Jaakko Hilpp? > >> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu > >> Post Doctoral Fellow > >> > >> FUSE > >> https://www.fusestudio.net > >> > >> LIME Research Lab > >> Walter Annenberg Hall > >> 2120 Campus Drive > >> Evanston, Illinois 60208 > >> 224.432.4400 > >> www.sesp.northwestern.edu > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From lpscholar2@gmail.com Fri Aug 26 09:07:02 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:07:02 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Peirce's Approach to Pluralism and System In-Reply-To: References: <57bddcb8.874a620a.6504e.e09e@mx.google.com> <57bf5fd2.0757420a.75dc3.f5c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57c06939.4e16620a.55377.c832@mx.google.com> Mike, Alfredo, I also am dipping my toe into this topic or theme so will explore with you what this means and where this meaning leads us as we walk along the path that Kym Maclaren opens before us. Vygotsky said, the word is the direct manifestation of the historical nature of consciousness. What if Vygotsky had said, Human consciousness is the direct manifestation of the historical nature of the word. There seems to be 3 parts or elements here in the way or arrangement or combination that are determining the actual existing order. 1) The word 2) Human consciousness' 3) The in-between We can post that human consciousness is the direct manifestation of the nature of the word OR We can post that the word is the direct manifestation of the nature of human consciousness OR We can post that both the word and human consciousness manifest (arise) simultaneously within the *in-between* Each of these frameworks shifts what is primary and where we focus attention. The next question: thinking life defines *itself* through consciousness. Is *thinking life* itself -life itself? OR is thinking life itself emerging from somewhere that is subterranean. Life itself may *exceed* thinking life itself. The thinking life *defines* itself, gives definition to itself through frameworks that are instituted ( a word used I think to go beyond thinking life defining *itself*). Events must also be considered and events occur in happenings not of our own choosing. The actual existing order and the way in which anything is *made up* determine the things nature and character. Merleau Ponty and Kym Maclaren are inviting us to use the model of institution to become clearer on the distinctions with other Models of *made up*. Now the tension between *made up* and *making up* (the coming to be and the overcoming of the limits of the currently available *made up* are also central to Merleau Ponty?s model. The actual existing order (of meaning) is in tension with meaning *potential* that is over the horizon but coming to be. It is only retrospectively that we come to see the newly instituted order and we arrive at this new order *through* the old order. This is a language of frame/works and trans/form/ation of meanings in which we dwell. The emotional institutions that are being realized (coming to consciousness) are becoming realized/instituted within a subterranean process which come to fruition within events beyond the purview of the *I think*. To have this transformation come to consciousness occurs after the happening of the event. However, the arising of the new institution arises *through* the older crystallized institution that is overcome. The dialectic that these emotional institutions *undergo* is driven not by self-reflection (which is retrospective) but by events (contingency, back and forth repetion, the living indeterminate ambiguous relations of being in the world with actual others within the older frame/work of habituated meaning AND this *movement* occurs in a subterranean way (beyond) I think -itself. This movement beyond the I think -itself is a back and forth movement of regression to older frameworks and anticipation of newer frameworks which arise/arrive when events happen that crystallize a new emotional institution on it's way to becoming overcome. Mike, Alfredo, Within M-P?s model meaning *cores* and meaning *potential* shift within *events*. Meaning is also central to perezhivanie and therefore the paths of institution and perezhivanie may possibly interweave as occurring in the realm of the *in-between* where both objectiv/ity and subjectiv/ity arise simultaneously. Through dialogue both the meaning of institution and perezhivanie ( meanings which we come to inhabit) may become clearer Possibly? Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: mike cole From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 26 09:26:45 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:26:45 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] An0ther job Message-ID: http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AOL133/assistant-professor-in-socio-cultural-anthropology/ ?mike? -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From annalisa@unm.edu Fri Aug 26 12:53:07 2016 From: annalisa@unm.edu (Annalisa Aguilar) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 19:53:07 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Oliver Sacks in NYT Message-ID: We need a little more love and gratitude rhetoric in the world, so here's some: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/opinion/sunday/out-late-with-oliver-sacks.html From jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi Fri Aug 26 13:03:48 2016 From: jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi (=?utf-8?Q?Jaakko_Hilpp=C3=B6?=) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 15:03:48 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <08942C72-44BD-4C69-A5A5-DF075F0E8612@helsinki.fi> My colleague Liubov Vetoshkina (CRADLE, University of Helsinki) kindly helped me to track down a few potential original sources fo the translated chapter online: A shortened version can be found at: ? ??????? ? ?????????????? ?????? [????????] // ??????????????? ????? ? ???????????. 1997, ? 1. ?. 11?14 http://psyjournals.ru/psyedu/1997/n1/Leontev.shtml And a longer version from: ??????????????? ??????? ?????????????? ?????? // ???????? ?????????? ?????????. ?.; ?., 1947, ?. 3?40. (???????? ??? ?????, ???. 7). http://www.anleontiev.smysl.ru/pervoist/038.htm Thanks Liubov! Jake :) > mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello 10.39: > > Jaako/Andy-- > > Seems like we should be able to access the Russian so that we do not have > more games of translations of translations. > > Who has a Russian copy of the book so we can get that chapter?? > > mike > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? > wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> >> Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is available at >> www.marxists.org >> >> https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/ >> anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf >> >> If it could be translated, that would be great! >> >> Jake :) >> >>> mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello 10.27: >>> >>> Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it does >>> not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East European >>> psych if someone sends a pdf. >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < >> jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear fellow list members, >>>> >>>> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too >> :) >>>> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, >>>> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische >>>> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the >> 1978 >>>> english translation of the book. >>>> >>>> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any leads on the matter! >>>> Jake :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Jaakko Hilpp? >>>> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu >>>> Post Doctoral Fellow >>>> >>>> FUSE >>>> https://www.fusestudio.net >>>> >>>> LIME Research Lab >>>> Walter Annenberg Hall >>>> 2120 Campus Drive >>>> Evanston, Illinois 60208 >>>> 224.432.4400 >>>> www.sesp.northwestern.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >> object >>> that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> >> >> > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From gardner.campbell@gmail.com Fri Aug 26 13:10:49 2016 From: gardner.campbell@gmail.com (Gardner Campbell) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 16:10:49 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AC67252-2052-4F9C-99F4-AB9AACD4621B@gmail.com> Thank you. (from mobile) > On Aug 26, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Annalisa Aguilar wrote: > > > > We need a little more love and gratitude rhetoric in the world, so here's some: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/opinion/sunday/out-late-with-oliver-sacks.html > > From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Fri Aug 26 13:15:23 2016 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 20:15:23 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1472242531364.6754@iped.uio.no> Just made me laugh and cry. And think. Thank you for sharing. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: 26 August 2016 21:53 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Oliver Sacks in NYT We need a little more love and gratitude rhetoric in the world, so here's some: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/opinion/sunday/out-late-with-oliver-sacks.html From jkindred@cnr.edu Fri Aug 26 13:40:15 2016 From: jkindred@cnr.edu (Kindred, Jessica Dr.) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 20:40:15 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes! Many thanks! ________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 3:53:07 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Oliver Sacks in NYT We need a little more love and gratitude rhetoric in the world, so here's some: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/opinion/sunday/out-late-with-oliver-sacks.html From hernandez.saca@gmail.com Fri Aug 26 13:50:05 2016 From: hernandez.saca@gmail.com (David Hernandez) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 15:50:05 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> Thanks!! ---------------------------------- Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any typos > On Aug 26, 2016, at 3:40 PM, Kindred, Jessica Dr. wrote: > > > Yes! Many thanks! > ________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Annalisa Aguilar > Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 3:53:07 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Oliver Sacks in NYT > > > > We need a little more love and gratitude rhetoric in the world, so here's some: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/opinion/sunday/out-late-with-oliver-sacks.html > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Fri Aug 26 16:10:57 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 16:10:57 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: <08942C72-44BD-4C69-A5A5-DF075F0E8612@helsinki.fi> References: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> <08942C72-44BD-4C69-A5A5-DF075F0E8612@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: Great. Let's see if we can get it translated. I have forwarded it to the proper gremlins Mike On Friday, 26 August 2016, Jaakko Hilpp? wrote: > My colleague Liubov Vetoshkina (CRADLE, University of Helsinki) kindly > helped me to track down a few potential original sources fo the translated > chapter online: > > A shortened version can be found at: > > ? ??????? ? ?????????????? ?????? [????????] // ??????????????? ????? ? > ???????????. 1997, ? 1. ?. 11?14 > > http://psyjournals.ru/psyedu/1997/n1/Leontev.shtml > > And a longer version from: > > ??????????????? ??????? ?????????????? ?????? // ???????? ?????????? > ?????????. ?.; ?., 1947, ?. 3?40. (???????? ??? ?????, ???. 7). > > http://www.anleontiev.smysl.ru/pervoist/038.htm > > Thanks Liubov! > > Jake :) > > > mike cole > kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello > 10.39: > > > > Jaako/Andy-- > > > > Seems like we should be able to access the Russian so that we do not have > > more games of translations of translations. > > > > Who has a Russian copy of the book so we can get that chapter?? > > > > mike > > > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < > jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi > > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Mike, > >> > >> > >> Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is available at > >> www.marxists.org > >> > >> https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/ > >> anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf > >> > >> If it could be translated, that would be great! > >> > >> Jake :) > >> > >>> mike cole > kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello > 10.27: > >>> > >>> Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it > does > >>> not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East > European > >>> psych if someone sends a pdf. > >>> > >>> mike > >>> > >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < > >> jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear fellow list members, > >>>> > >>>> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do > too > >> :) > >>>> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, > >>>> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische > >>>> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the > >> 1978 > >>>> english translation of the book. > >>>> > >>>> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for any leads on the matter! > >>>> Jake :) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jaakko Hilpp? > >>>> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu > > >>>> Post Doctoral Fellow > >>>> > >>>> FUSE > >>>> https://www.fusestudio.net > >>>> > >>>> LIME Research Lab > >>>> Walter Annenberg Hall > >>>> 2120 Campus Drive > >>>> Evanston, Illinois 60208 > >>>> 224.432.4400 > >>>> www.sesp.northwestern.edu > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > >> object > >>> that creates history. Ernst Boesch > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi Fri Aug 26 16:34:16 2016 From: jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi (=?utf-8?Q?Jaakko_Hilpp=C3=B6?=) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 18:34:16 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> <08942C72-44BD-4C69-A5A5-DF075F0E8612@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: Much obliged! Jake :) > mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello 18.10: > > Great. Let's see if we can get it translated. I have forwarded it to the > proper gremlins > Mike > > On Friday, 26 August 2016, Jaakko Hilpp? > wrote: > >> My colleague Liubov Vetoshkina (CRADLE, University of Helsinki) kindly >> helped me to track down a few potential original sources fo the translated >> chapter online: >> >> A shortened version can be found at: >> >> ? ??????? ? ?????????????? ?????? [????????] // ??????????????? ????? ? >> ???????????. 1997, ? 1. ?. 11?14 >> >> http://psyjournals.ru/psyedu/1997/n1/Leontev.shtml >> >> And a longer version from: >> >> ??????????????? ??????? ?????????????? ?????? // ???????? ?????????? >> ?????????. ?.; ?., 1947, ?. 3?40. (???????? ??? ?????, ???. 7). >> >> http://www.anleontiev.smysl.ru/pervoist/038.htm >> >> Thanks Liubov! >> >> Jake :) >> >>> mike cole > kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello >> 10.39: >>> >>> Jaako/Andy-- >>> >>> Seems like we should be able to access the Russian so that we do not have >>> more games of translations of translations. >>> >>> Who has a Russian copy of the book so we can get that chapter?? >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < >> jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is available at >>>> www.marxists.org >>>> >>>> https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/ >>>> anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf >>>> >>>> If it could be translated, that would be great! >>>> >>>> Jake :) >>>> >>>>> mike cole > kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello >> 10.27: >>>>> >>>>> Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it >> does >>>>> not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East >> European >>>>> psych if someone sends a pdf. >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < >>>> jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear fellow list members, >>>>>> >>>>>> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do >> too >>>> :) >>>>>> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, >>>>>> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische >>>>>> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the >>>> 1978 >>>>>> english translation of the book. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for any leads on the matter! >>>>>> Jake :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaakko Hilpp? >>>>>> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu > jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu > >>>>>> Post Doctoral Fellow >>>>>> >>>>>> FUSE >>>>>> https://www.fusestudio.net >>>>>> >>>>>> LIME Research Lab >>>>>> Walter Annenberg Hall >>>>>> 2120 Campus Drive >>>>>> Evanston, Illinois 60208 >>>>>> 224.432.4400 >>>>>> www.sesp.northwestern.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >>>> object >>>>> that creates history. Ernst Boesch >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >> object >>> that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> >> >> > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From ablunden@mira.net Fri Aug 26 19:41:20 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 12:41:20 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <47ab3630-e672-d604-81d3-98c438386209@mira.net> https://www.marxists.org/russkij/leontiev/1975/dyeatyelnost/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 27/08/2016 1:39 AM, mike cole wrote: > Jaako/Andy-- > > Seems like we should be able to access the Russian so that we do not have > more games of translations of translations. > > Who has a Russian copy of the book so we can get that chapter?? > > mike > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? > wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> >> Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is available at >> www.marxists.org >> >> https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/ >> anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf >> >> If it could be translated, that would be great! >> >> Jake :) >> >>> mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello 10.27: >>> >>> Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in English, but if it does >>> not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian and East European >>> psych if someone sends a pdf. >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < >> jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear fellow list members, >>>> >>>> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and finnish will do too >> :) >>>> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, consciousness, >>>> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? Psychologische >>>> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not included in the >> 1978 >>>> english translation of the book. >>>> >>>> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush up my german? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any leads on the matter! >>>> Jake :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Jaakko Hilpp? >>>> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu >>>> Post Doctoral Fellow >>>> >>>> FUSE >>>> https://www.fusestudio.net >>>> >>>> LIME Research Lab >>>> Walter Annenberg Hall >>>> 2120 Campus Drive >>>> Evanston, Illinois 60208 >>>> 224.432.4400 >>>> www.sesp.northwestern.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >> object >>> that creates history. Ernst Boesch >> >> > From ablunden@mira.net Fri Aug 26 19:43:43 2016 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 12:43:43 +1000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?utf-8?q?Chapter_7_of_Ta=CC=88tigkeit=2C_Bewu=C3=9Ftsein=2C_?= =?utf-8?q?Perso=CC=88nlichkeit_=281982=29?= In-Reply-To: <47ab3630-e672-d604-81d3-98c438386209@mira.net> References: <979E1642-EA5B-4902-931F-7C37EA189071@helsinki.fi> <47ab3630-e672-d604-81d3-98c438386209@mira.net> Message-ID: My apologies. This only goes to chapter 5. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making On 27/08/2016 12:41 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > https://www.marxists.org/russkij/leontiev/1975/dyeatyelnost/index.htm > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Andy Blunden > http://home.mira.net/~andy > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making > > On 27/08/2016 1:39 AM, mike cole wrote: >> Jaako/Andy-- >> >> Seems like we should be able to access the Russian so >> that we do not have >> more games of translations of translations. >> >> Who has a Russian copy of the book so we can get that >> chapter?? >> >> mike >> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> >>> Thanks for the fast response! I believe the full text is >>> available at >>> www.marxists.org >>> >>> https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/leontjew/1974/ >>> anl1982-deutsch-1.pdf >>> >>> If it could be translated, that would be great! >>> >>> Jake :) >>> >>>> mike cole kirjoitti 26.8.2016 kello >>>> 10.27: >>>> >>>> Jaakko -- I have no idea if the chapter exists in >>>> English, but if it does >>>> not, we can get it translated in the Journal of Russian >>>> and East European >>>> psych if someone sends a pdf. >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Jaakko Hilpp? < >>> jaakko.hilppo@helsinki.fi> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear fellow list members, >>>>> >>>>> I?m looking for an english translation (swedish and >>>>> finnish will do too >>> :) >>>>> of the 1982 german version of Leont?ev?s Activity, >>>>> consciousness, >>>>> personality, more specifically its chapter 7 (Anhang ? >>>>> Psychologische >>>>> Fragen der Bewu?theit des Lernprozesses) which is not >>>>> included in the >>> 1978 >>>>> english translation of the book. >>>>> >>>>> Does such a translation excist or do I need to brush >>>>> up my german? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any leads on the matter! >>>>> Jake :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jaakko Hilpp? >>>>> jaakko.hilppo@northwestern.edu >>>>> >>>>> Post Doctoral Fellow >>>>> >>>>> FUSE >>>>> https://www.fusestudio.net >>>>> >>>>> LIME Research Lab >>>>> Walter Annenberg Hall >>>>> 2120 Campus Drive >>>>> Evanston, Illinois 60208 >>>>> 224.432.4400 >>>>> www.sesp.northwestern.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural >>>> science with an >>> object >>>> that creates history. Ernst Boesch >>> >>> >> > > > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sat Aug 27 08:55:00 2016 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (lpscholar2@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:55:00 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> References: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> This movement of public and private -intertwining. With gratitude Sent from my Windows 10 phone From: David Hernandez From mcole@ucsd.edu Sat Aug 27 11:10:48 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 11:10:48 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> References: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> Message-ID: He was a very private, shy man. Neat, enriching story. mike On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 8:55 AM, wrote: > This movement of public and private -intertwining. With gratitude > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone > > From: David Hernandez -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From hshonerd@gmail.com Sat Aug 27 11:27:36 2016 From: hshonerd@gmail.com (HENRY SHONERD) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 12:27:36 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: References: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9ED84E24-8352-4B20-A374-B0BC2A5515D2@gmail.com> Private as ?O? to his longtime partner, but a giant public figure as Oliver Sacks who brought small, private epiphanies to light. Makes me think of Emily Dickinson and Mary Oliver. Henry > On Aug 27, 2016, at 12:10 PM, mike cole wrote: > > He was a very private, shy man. > Neat, enriching story. > mike > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 8:55 AM, wrote: > >> This movement of public and private -intertwining. With gratitude >> >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone >> >> From: David Hernandez > > > > > -- > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object > that creates history. Ernst Boesch From schuckthemonkey@gmail.com Sat Aug 27 13:49:56 2016 From: schuckthemonkey@gmail.com (Christopher Schuck) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 16:49:56 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Oliver Sacks in NYT In-Reply-To: <9ED84E24-8352-4B20-A374-B0BC2A5515D2@gmail.com> References: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> <9ED84E24-8352-4B20-A374-B0BC2A5515D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: One of the cool things about this story was how he encounters his own public persona (as so regularly occurs with celebrities), but in a completely unexpected and counter-intuitive way. It must be a strange and amazing thing to learn, at the very end of your life, that people across the street are paying tribute to you - not for your unique accomplishments per se, but for something entirely different that you share *in* *common *with many others. A tribute to identity not persona. Thanks for this. On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 2:27 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote: > Private as ?O? to his longtime partner, but a giant public figure as > Oliver Sacks who brought small, private epiphanies to light. Makes me think > of Emily Dickinson and Mary Oliver. > Henry > > > > On Aug 27, 2016, at 12:10 PM, mike cole wrote: > > > > He was a very private, shy man. > > Neat, enriching story. > > mike > > > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 8:55 AM, wrote: > > > >> This movement of public and private -intertwining. With gratitude > >> > >> Sent from my Windows 10 phone > >> > >> From: David Hernandez > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an > object > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch > > > From mcole@ucsd.edu Mon Aug 29 16:00:28 2016 From: mcole@ucsd.edu (mike cole) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 16:00:28 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Assistant Prof, Dev Psych - Pittsburgh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems like a lot of job for developmentalists these days. This is another good one. mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brownell, Celia Date: Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 12:47 PM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Assistant Prof, Dev Psych - Pittsburgh To: "cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org" The *Department of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh* announces a t enure track position at the *Assistant Professor *level, pending budgetary a pproval, for an individual with a program of research focusing on *developmental psychology*. Outstanding candidates with a strong theoretical orientation and expertise in prenatal, infant, child, and/or adolescent development will be considered. Emphasis in any of the following areas is especially welcomed: ? Socioemotional, cognitive (including attention), or social-cognit ive development, including problematic or non-normative development ? Epigenetic influences ? Developmental neuroscience (cognitive or affective) ? Advanced quantitative expertise; or neuroimaging or physiological methods; or applied or policy-relevant research As the ability to complement and extend the current strengths of the Psychol ogy Department is also essential, optimal candidates should have cross-disci plinary interests that intersect with other departmental program areas. The Psychology Department (http://www.psychology.pitt.edu) is committed to excellence in research and in teaching at both the graduate and undergraduat e levels. The Department has 38 tenure-stream faculty and houses five gradua te training programs: Biological and Health, Clinical, Cognitive, Developmen tal, and Social, along with cross-program training opportunities. The interd isciplinary nature of psychological science is reflected in both faculty re search interests and collaborations and training options afforded to graduat e students. Review of applications will begin immediately, with complete applications re ceived by October 15, 2016 receiving full consideration. Applications should be submitted electronically by sending a cover letter, CV, statements of res earch and teaching interests, three letters of recommendation, and up to thr ee representative publications to *p**syrecr@pitt.edu* . The subject heading of recommendation letters should include the applicant?s last name and the word Recommendation*. *Inquiries regarding the position c an be addressed to the Chair of the Search Committee, Professor Jana Iverson (jiverson@pitt.edu). The University of Pittsburgh is an Affirmative Action/E qual Opportunity Employer and values equality of opportunity, human dignity and diversity. EEO/AA/M/F/Vets/Disabled. _______________________________________________ To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@lists.cogdevsoc.org (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To subscribe or unsubscribe from the listserv, visit: http://lists.cogdevsoc.org/listinfo.cgi/cogdevsoc-cogdevsoc.org -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch From mpacker@uniandes.edu.co Wed Aug 31 16:22:50 2016 From: mpacker@uniandes.edu.co (Martin John Packer) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:22:50 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] =?utf-8?q?La_Ciencia_de_la_Investigaci=C3=B3n_Cualitativa?= In-Reply-To: References: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> <9ED84E24-8352-4B20-A374-B0BC2A5515D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5B3DAF95-D242-4D72-B996-AC2CA693563B@uniandes.edu.co> Me gustar?a compartir con ustedes, especialmente con los hispano-hablantes de nuestro grupo, el hecho de que la traducci?n al espa?ol de mi libro, La Ciencia de la Investigaci?n Cualitativa, est? ahora disponible como un libro electr?nico. saludos Martin From a.j.gil@iped.uio.no Wed Aug 31 16:43:05 2016 From: a.j.gil@iped.uio.no (Alfredo Jornet Gil) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:43:05 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: =?iso-8859-1?q?La_Ciencia_de_la_Investigaci=F3n_Cualitativa?= In-Reply-To: <5B3DAF95-D242-4D72-B996-AC2CA693563B@uniandes.edu.co> References: <40815649-2C0A-4266-BACD-EA2B8B0CA2B2@gmail.com> <57c1b7e7.0198620a.e0632.a074@mx.google.com> <9ED84E24-8352-4B20-A374-B0BC2A5515D2@gmail.com> , <5B3DAF95-D242-4D72-B996-AC2CA693563B@uniandes.edu.co> Message-ID: <1472687013081.56387@iped.uio.no> Enhorabuena por la publicaci?n y muchas gracias por compartirlo. Alfredo ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Martin John Packer Sent: 01 September 2016 01:22 To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] La Ciencia de la Investigaci?n Cualitativa Me gustar?a compartir con ustedes, especialmente con los hispano-hablantes de nuestro grupo, el hecho de que la traducci?n al espa?ol de mi libro, La Ciencia de la Investigaci?n Cualitativa, est? ahora disponible como un libro electr?nico. saludos Martin