[Xmca-l] Re: Blackface and Gayface

[R.J.S.Parsons]

"Food, identity, and culture. Always intertwined never monolithic."

Very true. Over here, until curry and lager came along, the traditional 
English meal was fish and chips and a cup of tea. Tea brought here from 
India. Chips - which you call fries, only ours are much bigger - brought 
here from the Americas. The practice of battering and frying fish 
brought here by Jewish refugees from other parts of Europe. And 
quintessentially English.

Rob

On 25/04/2016 21:09, Greg Mcverry wrote:
> I am in no way a culinary historian or researcher of Southern Black
> Culture.
>
> >From what I have read the greens were some of the few items slaves and then
> tenant farmers could grow and keep. The meat bits were usually scrap or
> innards again being all that was given or afforded.
>
> The recipes origins are of West African descent.
>
> The spread of collard greens is aligned with “Soul Food" growth as the
> African Diaspora moved into cities and out of the South following the Civil
> War, industrialization, and then civil rights movement.
>
> In fact in Beyonce's "Formation" which caused a stir at the Super Bowl for
> its perceived Black Power message celebrates Southern Black culture with
> lyrical reference to "hot sauce in the purse."
>
> Food, identity, and culture. Always intertwined never monolithic.
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 3:58 PM R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that. I can see the historical power of the explanation. I am
>> a bit surprised that some of these were not introduced by other people
>> as well - perhaps there is a more complex process by which they come to
>> be associated exclusively with black slave identity.
>>
>> And how did slaves get to itroduce them? They cant have brought them
>> with them all the way form Africa. And they would not be conducting
>> their own commerce. Interesting.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On 25/04/2016 16:35, Greg Mcverry wrote:
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> Collard Greens were first introduced in the US by African Slaves. It is a
>>> regional dish (though not appealing to Vegans) served in both Southern
>>> cuisine and Soul Food.
>>>
>>> Collard Greens though have taken on a strong metaphorical  role in
>> southern
>>> Black identity.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:12 AM R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is wonderful what you learn on xmca. I had never heard of collard
>>>> greens before. A quick visit to Wikipedia has enlightened me: things I
>>>> eat most days. But the category has no meaning in my life, or in that of
>>>> any other UK resident I am aware of. We eat some, we don't eat others.
>>>>
>>>> Can someone enlighten me as to how and in what way collard greens has
>>>> become a marker of identity in the USA?
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>> On 25/04/2016 15:37, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote:
>>>>> Jacob
>>>>> Now we have to get into the definition of what is black identity?  I am
>>>> native haitian who grew up in the provinces where my grandparents
>> practiced
>>>> vodou and raised me to think as an african.  My world was constituted
>> via
>>>> the universe and vodou.  I simply do not believe in defining myself by
>> my
>>>> skin-color.  By white man, yes I do privilege white experiences of the
>>>> earth and the ideologies and apparatuses they have constituted as a
>> result
>>>> of the experience; blackness in the west was defined in relation to that
>>>> experience. So in order for me to be black in america and join the black
>>>> community what should I do:
>>>>> Join a so-called black church (they discriminate against my vodou
>>>> religion as in vodou we discriminate against them for they practice the
>>>> white man's faith)Eat collard greens, chicken, and macaroni and
>> cheeseSpeak
>>>> AAEVwear skinny jeansListen to rap music and rb
>>>>> OR is Barack Obama a paragon for e. Franklin frazier's the black
>>>> bourgeoisie?
>>>>> I am haitian and My wife is black american and we have two sons... I do
>>>> not let my sons do the black church thing.  My wife attends her
>> protestant
>>>> church every sunday.  But my sons are not allowed to attend;  No AAEV in
>>>> the house; we are vegans so we do not do many of the foods...
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>> From: Jacob McWilliams <jennamcjenna@gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: 4/25/2016  9:46 AM  (GMT-05:00)
>>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Blackface and Gayface
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not, and never will, agree with the arguments that reject Obama's
>>>>> black identity. I find those arguments deeply problematic at minimum,
>> and
>>>>> usually much worse than problematic. However, I do wish that those who
>>>>> argue that Obama is not black would not describe him as a white man. By
>>>> the
>>>>> terms of this argument, whiteness is no more a "real" category than is
>>>>> blackness, and referring to Obama as a "white man," even if done to
>> shock
>>>>> people, serves to feed into the very real, and not at all fictitious,
>>>>> hegemony of whiteness in America and around the world.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>