[Xmca-l] Re: Interesting to think about: the social springs of giving
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Thu Oct 22 16:58:50 PDT 2015
Yes of course, Jay. I don't know a term (rather than a whole
sentence) to distinguish motivations which develop out of
participation in a congregation along with entire
communities from "I do this so I get into Heaven" (or
something). But it is exactly as you say.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 23/10/2015 3:26 AM, Jay Lemke wrote:
> A follow-up thought about the question of religious motivation for
> altruistic participation in that Arkansas community. In small towns like
> that in that part of the US, it's fairly normal to have regular
> participation in church activities. Churches frequently organize
> philanthropic and community support activities such as visits to sick
> church members, help for families in need, and so on.
>
> I believe this develops a habitus or normal disposition for participating
> in such community activities. Although it would be common for people to
> justify their participation using religious language, I don't think we need
> to assume a direct religious motivation for participation such as with Make
> a Wish. It seems enough that people have developed the habit of
> participating in similar activities through lifelong churchgoing. Even the
> habit of putting a dollar in the collection plate on Sunday provides a
> template for putting a dollar in the Make a Wish collection box.
>
> I offered this observation because although it is important to assess the
> role of religious belief in altruistic behavior, I think we need to
> distinguish action based on such belief from habits of community solidarity
> that depend more on participation in the activities of a church community,
> which may not be specifically based in religious belief as such.
>
> JAY.
>
>
> Jay Lemke
> LCHC/Department of Communication
> University of California - San Diego
> www.jaylemke.com
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:18 AM, Daniel Hyman <daniel.a.hyman.0@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Highly illuminating, Andy, thank you!
>>
>> A semantic quibble and a brief personal story:
>>
>> - "Go back" could mean, as well as "retreat" or "withdraw", "return". A
>> subtle but key shade of meaning.
>>
>> - I have just returned to New York from a remarkable year in Kiev. Easily
>> its most meaningful and rewarding aspect, was being invited to weekly
>> services as cantor of the main Progressive synagogue in Ukraine,
>> Atikva Tsentr. (No ordination, no problem.) Judaism is called a religion,
>> but to my mind (and others') ill fits that category. Atikva is a vibrant
>> cultural and social community. It stands, phoenix-like, within walking
>> distance of Babiy Yar. I suppose one could call my affinity there
>> "religious". Theology or faith per se, however, had very little to do with
>> it. Belonging, thriving, making music and friends there, was a case of
>> being both 5,000 miles from home, and right at home. Social capital emerged
>> from thin air, every Saturday morning.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:52 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike, it is a suggestion that the phenomena manifested by Make-a-Wish in
>>> NE Arkansas may not be portable, and that the kind of social change
>>> achieved requires other means in other places.
>>> After kind of touring the world, Horton went back, more or less, to his
>>> home territory to set up the base to use adult education as an instrument
>>> for social transformation. The merits of beginning from your own roots is
>>> one of the conclusions I drew from my years of ultraleft activity. In the
>>> 1970s, all over the world, people of my generation who had been
>> radicalised
>>> in the mass movements of the 1960s abandoned the professions they would
>>> otherwise have joined after completing university and went to work in
>>> factories based on convictions that this was where social transformation
>>> could be achieved. A big mistake. Just like in many countries our
>> opposite
>>> numbers left the cities and went into the countryside. Big mistake.
>>> This was not a mistake made by the woman who is the inspiration behind
>>> this obsession with Make-a-Wish in NE Arkansas. She was a child who got
>> her
>>> real wish fulfilled and got better after being the subject of a
>> Make-a-Wish
>>> project, and what she decided to do with her life was lots and lots of
>>> Make-a-Wish projects in her home town and surrounds. Good decision.
>>> Now, there is a strong sense of "Only in America" in this story. I am not
>>> much of a theologian, having been raised by Communists myself and never
>>> having been to Damascus. But I think it could only be in a country so
>>> utterly steeped in Christianity as rural U S of A that Make-a-Wish could
>> so
>>> grip entire communities.
>>> In social democratic countries like Australia, Make-a-Wish has a life,
>> but
>>> it is not a big thing and nor is any variety of philanthropy. When people
>>> want to do something to help there is a powerful reflex which says that
>> the
>>> proper way to help is to get government or at the very least some kind of
>>> statutory authority to take on the problem in a permanent, universal
>>> commitment. Which does produce weird phenomena from time to time.
>> Whenever
>>> there is a tsunami or a famine, Australians give billions on a personal
>>> basis and our governments give very little.
>>> Now this brings me to a puzzle which I have wrestled with most of my life
>>> without resolution. Almost everyone I see doing good, selfless community
>>> service, even including self-help and community development work, is
>>> motivated by religion. There are those of us who serve the community
>>> motivated by secular ideals, but we are really a small minority. This is
>> a
>>> real conundrum for those of us motivated by secular ideals because we
>> rely
>>> on the idea that secular ideals are powerful enough to motivate
>> meaningful
>>> life-projects which are not self-serving.
>>> One of the attractions of Make-a-Wish is that it is a
>> project-of-projects.
>>> In fact, most of the participants probably are not even conscious of an
>>> overall project, just "Make-a-Wish".
>>> None of the above goes to the key relation at the centre of each
>>> Make-a-Wish project, the sick child. I am sure a poet-psychologist could
>>> wax lyrical on that theme, but that's not for me. The ability of the sick
>>> child to cut through to the heart of every adult is surely universal. But
>>> Jane Jacobs rated the obligation upon any adult to come to the aid of any
>>> child on the pavement a key characteristic of a healthy city and I agree.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>> On 22/10/2015 1:33 AM, mike cole wrote:
>>>
>>>> larry, Andy
>>>>
>>>> Does Horton's advice provide an explanation for the various phenomena on
>>>> display in that video segment?
>>>>
>>>> I am a little lost here.
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:
>>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andy,
>>>> The wisdom of Myles Norton.
>>>> You must go back. Does this mean retreat or withdraw
>>>> to a simple place? The question of the place being
>>>> simple also seems relevant.
>>>> Also the need for a goal. Is the type of goal required
>>>> an *ethical* goal that is shared?
>>>> THEN the movement and application will take its *own*
>>>> form and structure once we have a place.
>>>> It seems Myles Horton is trusting goals without
>>>> blueprints that give pre/established answers.
>>>> TRUSTING the place and the goals to open
>>>> opportunities of possibility. A simple place
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net
>>>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>>> Sent: 2015-10-20 2:18 AM
>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Interesting to think about: the
>>>> social springs of giving
>>>>
>>>> I watched the story.
>>>> I already knew about Make-a-Wish so it was no
>>>> surprise, but
>>>> Mike's point was of course the way MaW became a
>>>> vehicle for
>>>> a fantastic wave of building social fabric.
>>>> XMCAers are all going to be interested in any idea
>>>> which can
>>>> lead to building this kind of *trust* in a community.
>>>> Trust
>>>> is basically what "social capital" is, but the point
>>>> is only
>>>> how does one go about *building* that trust? Robert Putnam
>>>> says almost any doing-something-together will have this
>>>> effect, and took choir groups as his typical example.
>>>> Personally, I think MaW would do better than choir groups,
>>>> but that's not the point. Putnam's own data in his
>>>> original
>>>> study in Italy actually showed that the best predictor of
>>>> social capital was having a PCI local government,
>>>> which was
>>>> inconvenient for Putnam's theory, so he just excluded this
>>>> from his results.
>>>> The story this week in Australia has been about Tamworth,
>>>> famous for an annual Country Music festival, but
>>>> otherwise a
>>>> typical remote outback town. It is now building a
>>>> Pharmaceutical plant. How did this huge change happen? A
>>>> young boy had bowel cancer and his mother, a good
>>>> member of
>>>> the Country Women's Association, discovered that cannabis
>>>> was the only medication which relieved the pain and nausea
>>>> the boy was suffering. She took up the cause. While
>>>> illegally acquiring cannabis she started lobbying
>>>> government
>>>> to legalise medical cannabis and she won, though the whole
>>>> business will take a year or so to implement. And Tamworth
>>>> will be all set to market it. She has gathered a huge
>>>> social
>>>> movement and local support radiating out from Tamworth.
>>>> My point. Make-a-Wish worked for North East Arkansas,
>>>> partly
>>>> because of one child who lived to champion it. Cannabis
>>>> legalisation and production worked for Tamworth.
>>>> As Myles Horton said:
>>>>
>>>> What you must do is go back, get a simple place,
>>>> move in and you are there. The situation is there.
>>>> You start with this and let it grow. You know your
>>>> goal. It will build its own structure and take its
>>>> own form.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>>> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>>> On 20/10/2015 4:00 AM, mike cole wrote:
>>>> > What did you make of the CBS segment, Jay? Does it
>>>> provide useful example
>>>> > of principle of community's in Turner?
>>>> > Mike
>>>> > Mike
>>>> >
>>>> > On Monday, October 19, 2015, Jay Lemke
>>>> <lemke.jay@gmail.com <mailto:lemke.jay@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> For an interesting approach to "community", I'd
>>>> recommend Edith Turner's
>>>> >> "Communitas". Ethnographic deepening of late Victor
>>>> Turner's concept.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> JAY.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Jay Lemke
>>>> >> LCHC/Department of Communication
>>>> >> University of California - San Diego
>>>> >> www.jaylemke.com <http://www.jaylemke.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Andy Blunden
>>>> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>>>
>>>> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Yes, indeed I am interested, Mike.
>>>> >>> Critiquing the concept of "social capital" and
>>>> developing an alternative
>>>> >>> concept of "social solidarity" and searching for a
>>>> suitable unit of
>>>> >>> analysis was how I got started down the track I
>>>> have been on ever since
>>>> >>> then, about 2003. What is the difference between
>>>> community as in all
>>>> >> people
>>>> >>> living in such and such town, and "real"
>>>> community? Robert Putnam had
>>>> >>> assembled evidence that almost any collective
>>>> activity fosters what he
>>>> >>> called "social capital." The problem was that he
>>>> couldn't distinguish
>>>> >>> between the mafia taking root in a community and a
>>>> community taking
>>>> >> control
>>>> >>> of crime on its streets, etc. His classic
>>>> "example" activity was the
>>>> >>> formation of choir groups, proven promoters of
>>>> collective "wealth".
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Andy
>>>> >>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> >>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>>> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 19/10/2015 2:07 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> I found a segment of the American weekly TV
>>>> program, 60 minutes, more
>>>> >> than
>>>> >>>> usually interesting this evening, and one segment
>>>> in particular
>>>> >>>> seemed to have a lot of relevance to many
>>>> different interests of people
>>>> >> on
>>>> >>>> xmca. The topic was the the activities of the
>>>> "Make a Wish Foundation."
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Of the very many issues that the program
>>>> discusses, one which I found
>>>> >>>> particularly interesting was the ability of the
>>>> organized practice of
>>>> >>>> communities
>>>> >>>> raising money to give seriously ill children "a
>>>> last wish" is one that
>>>> >> has
>>>> >>>> particular relevance to questions about the
>>>> mechanisms of social
>>>> >>>> solidarity. In small towns in northern Arkansas,
>>>> a relatively poor and
>>>> >> out
>>>> >>>> of the part of the US, people raise amazing
>>>> amounts of money to provide
>>>> >>>> special experience for kids who are dying of some
>>>> disease that has not
>>>> >>>> known current cure. What particularly caught my
>>>> attention especially is
>>>> >>>> the
>>>> >>>> powerful effect that participation in the money
>>>> raising and the
>>>> >> ingenious
>>>> >>>> social organization of the activities, has on
>>>> community members across
>>>> >>>> several generations, from peers to grandparents.
>>>> In one sense, it seems
>>>> >>>> that everything is so focuses on the individual
>>>> kid that it is "just a
>>>> >>>> manifestation of late capitalist individualism."
>>>> If effects on the kids
>>>> >> is
>>>> >>>> interesting, but it is the reflected effect on
>>>> the community pretty
>>>> >>>> generally, and the emergence of strong personal
>>>> bonds in particular that
>>>> >>>> caught me most.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Andy might find this interesting as an example of
>>>> a project.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> mike
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/topics/60-minutes/
>>>> click on make a
>>>> >>>> wish
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
>>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
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