[Xmca-l] Re: Two paths of mediation, or perhaps three
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Tue Nov 24 17:58:23 PST 2015
I suppose I am talking about etymology as an insight into
the institutions rather than the words.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 25/11/2015 12:27 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> Quite so, Andy. But what concept is being used when
> someone refers to their "teacher", "manager" or
> "supervisor". These institutionalised terms have little
> to do with their authentic/innocent meanings. "Team lead"
> is surely on the way too, and presumably "mentor" is under
> assault (to the degree of its co-option in an
> institution). :)
>
> Huw
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 23:57, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> "Not have anything to do with" would not be quite
> right in my view. I have always believed that the
> study of a word's etymology sheds light on the concept
> it names, but mainly because it brings into relief the
> genesis of the concept itself and its interconnections
> - puts the frame back into the movie.
> But to say that the "original" meaning of a word is
> the "true" meaning of the word (or other symbol or
> practice) is called "the genetic fallacy."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> On 25/11/2015 9:11 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
> Now I am confused. How could a word's meaning not
> have anything to do with
> etymology? :)
>
> Huw
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 21:49, mike cole
> <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>
> The word, pickle, never occurred to me, Tom.
> Kisli I immediately equated
> with sour. It was the kraut part that I was
> opaque. That part of my example
> had nothing to do with etymology, Huw. My wife
> reminded me of it when I
> reported the first part.
>
> So complicated to communicate about such
> experiences. And of course open to
> multiple interpretations. Still, I like
> mine...of course! :-)
> Mike
>
> On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Tom Richardson <
> tom.richardson3@googlemail.com
> <mailto:tom.richardson3@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
> To butt in again - surely 'sauer' also
> means 'acidic' - pickled cabbage?
> Tom
> Middlesbrough UK
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 16:31, Huw Lloyd
> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't have thought that a prior
> meaning blocks the path to the
>
> primary
>
> meaning necessarily. The norm, it
> seems, is that we are unaware of the
> etymological roots of words. And that
> unless one was practiced at
> questioning the structure of the word
> forms then a discovery is not
>
> really
>
> blocked as so much as never sought in
> the first place. Personally, it
> seems to me that when I enquire into
> an etymological meaning and find
>
> it
>
> consonant with a a more pervasive
> (though little understood)
>
> understanding,
>
> I take some temporary satisfaction in
> one more accounting in the
>
> reckoning
>
> against our stupid society.
>
> As for (sauer)kraut, I think we could
> say the same for the more
> contemporary neo-liberal. Both terms
> point back to the speaker (and
> artificer) of the word's confusions
> and sour-grapes which are projected
> onto the protagonist -- such is war
> and politics.
>
> Huw
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 06:17, Andy
> Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> You've got a good head on your
> shoulders, Mike!
> andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> On 24/11/2015 3:25 PM, mike cole
> wrote:
>
> Oops, i should have proof read
> before rushing off. here is a
>
> slightly
>
> cleaner text. Same ideas. :-)
> mike
> -------------
>
> Two paths of mediated thought
> through three languages.
>
>
>
> The topic arose because we
> were eating an almost great
> chiappino. I
>
> said,
>
> "Lets make that a part of the
> repertoire and my mind drifted
> to a
>
> search
>
> for other soups I love, but
> have not experienced in a long
> time.
>
> "Shi,"
>
> I
>
> suggested. Shi is a soup made
> from saurkraut. "I don't like shi"
>
> Sheila
>
> replied. "I was think we
> should find a Russian
> restaurant that has
>
> good
>
> shi," I responded. That way,
> you could have something you
> do like."
>
> Then I
>
> thought about the properties
> of good shi and I code
> switched into
>
> Russian.
>
> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a
> heavy emphasis on the word,
> kisli, to
> emphasize that is *sour *
> kapusta in contrast with the
> usual cabbage
>
> soup,
>
> or the kind of cabbage you
> have in borscht. Then I thought to
>
> myself,
>
> kisli-sour ..... oh, the
> *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
>
>
>
> I remarked to Sheila that it
> was remarkable that I had
> somehow never
> connected the word kraut, as
> in sour kraut, with the word
> cabbage,
>
> even
>
> though it you asked me what
> sour kraut was made of, I would of
>
> course
>
> say
>
> cabbage. Why did I have to
> discover that kraut means
> cabbage from
> remembering the delicious
> smell of schi?
>
>
>
> My strong hunch is that the
> answer lies with the fact that I
>
> experienced
>
> WWII as a preschooler who
> became obsessed with the war.
> All during
>
> my
>
> boyood I read countless
> fictional and historical
> accounts of the
>
> war.
>
> The,
>
> and in later years that war
> was depicted over and over
> again in
>
> films
>
> from
>
> the Guns of Navaronne to
> Private Ryan's war in a manner
> that fit
>
> with
>
> my
>
> childhood image of WW II
> German soldiers, the SS, the
> Wermacht --
> "krauts."
> To me, the image of the word
> kraut, seems to have retained this
>
> primitive,
>
> early, persistent, organizing
> image.
>
>
>
> Because the word, kraut, was
> already occupied, when I
> thought of
>
> shi,
>
> I
>
> was, it seems, thinking
> kisli/sour kapusta, without
> incorporating
>
> the
>
> knowledge that
>
> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbage.
>
>
>
> Odd how mediation works.
>
> And odd too, that my name is
> Cole. If you look in the
> dictionary
>
> for
>
> the
>
> definition of the word, cole,
> you will find something like this:
>
>
>
> "any plant belonging to the
> genus Brassica, of the mustard
> family,including many
> economically important
> vegetables, such as
> *cabbage.*.......
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:16
> PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
>
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> the following observations
> might be of interest. I wonder
> if others
>
> have
>
> had similar experiences.
> The dynamics of language
> and the paths of
> mediation seem to be clear
> to me, but maybe that is
> just an
>
> illusory
>
> artifact of reporting on
> introspective reports.
>
> what, as Dr. Matusov is
> fond of asking, do you think?
> mike
> --------------------------------------------
> Two paths of mediated
> thought through three
> languages.
>
>
>
> The topic arose because we
> were eating an almost
> great chiappino. I
>
> said,
>
> "Lets make that a part of
> the repetoir and my mind
> drifted to a
>
> search
>
> for
> other soups I love, but
> have not experienced in a
> long time.
>
> "Shi," I
>
> suggested. Shi is a soup
> made from saurkraut. "I
> don't like shi"
>
> Sheila
>
> replied. "I was think we
> should find a Russian
> restaurant that has
>
> good
>
> shi," I responded. That
> way, you could have
> something you do like."
>
> Then
>
> I
> thought about the
> properties of good shi and
> I code switched into
> Russian.
> "Kisli kapusta, I said,
> with a heavy emphasis on
> the word, kisli,
>
> to
>
> emphasize that is *sour *
> kapusta in contrast with
> the usual
>
> cabbage
>
> soup, or the kind of
> cabbage you have in
> borscht. Then I thought to
> myself,
> kisli-sour ..... oh, the
> *kraut *part of shi means
> cabbage!
>
>
>
> I remarked to Sheila that
> it was remarkable that I
> had somehow
>
> never
>
> connected the word kraut,
> as in sour kraut, with the
> word cabbage,
>
> even
>
> though it you asked me
> what sour kraut was made
> of, I would of
>
> course
>
> say
>
> cabbage. Why did I have to
> discover that kraut means
> cabbage from
> remembering the delicious
> smell of schi?
>
>
>
> My strong hunch is that,
> because I experienced WWII
> as a
>
> preschooler
>
> who
>
> became obsessed with the
> war. All during my boyood
> I read fictional
>
> and
>
> historical accounts of the
> war. In later years that
> war was
>
> depicted
>
> over
>
> and over again in films
> from the Guns of Navarone
> to Private Ryan's
>
> war
>
> in
> a manner that fit with my
> childhood image of WW II
> German soldiers,
>
> the
>
> SS,
> the Wermacht -- "krauts."
> To me, the image of the
> word kraut, seems
>
> to
>
> have
> retained this primitive,
> early, persistent,
> organizing image.
>
>
>
> Because the word, kraut,
> was already occupied, when
> I thought of
>
> shi, I
>
> was, it seems, thinking
> kisli/sour kapusta,
> without incorporating
>
> the
>
> knowledge that
>
> kapusta =kraut-->
> kraut=cabbabe.
>
>
>
> Odd how mediation works.
>
> And odd too, that my name
> is Cole. If you look in
> the dictionary
>
> for
>
> the
>
> definition of the word,
> cole, you will find
> something like this:
>
>
>
>
> "any plant belonging to
> the genus Brassica, of the
> mustard
> family,including many
>
> economically important
> vegetables, such as
> *cabbage.*.......
>
>
> darn!
>
>
>
> --
>
> It is the dilemma of
> psychology to deal as a
> natural science with
>
> an
>
> object that creates
> history. Ernst Boesch
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a
> natural science with an
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
>
>
>
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