[Xmca-l] Re: Two paths of mediation, or perhaps three

[Huw Lloyd]

I wouldn't have thought that a prior meaning blocks the path to the primary
meaning necessarily.  The norm, it seems, is that we are unaware of the
etymological roots of words.  And that unless one was practiced at
questioning the structure of the word forms then a discovery is not really
blocked as so much as never sought in the first place.  Personally, it
seems to me that when I enquire into an etymological meaning and find it
consonant with a a more pervasive (though little understood) understanding,
I take some temporary satisfaction in one more accounting in the reckoning
against our stupid society.

As for (sauer)kraut, I think we could say the same for the more
contemporary neo-liberal.  Both terms point back to the speaker (and
artificer) of the word's confusions and sour-grapes which are projected
onto the protagonist  -- such is war and politics.

Huw










On 24 November 2015 at 06:17, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> You've got a good head on your shoulders, Mike!
> andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>
> On 24/11/2015 3:25 PM, mike cole wrote:
>
>> Oops, i should have proof read before rushing off. here is a slightly
>> cleaner text. Same ideas. :-)
>> mike
>> -------------
>>
>> Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
>>
>>
>>
>> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I said,
>> "Lets make that a part of the repertoire and my mind drifted to a search
>> for other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time. "Shi," I
>> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi" Sheila
>> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has good
>> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like." Then I
>> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into Russian.
>> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
>> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage soup,
>> or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to myself,
>> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
>>
>>
>>
>> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
>> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage, even
>> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of course say
>> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
>> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
>>
>>
>>
>> My strong hunch is that the answer lies with the fact that I experienced
>> WWII as a preschooler who became obsessed with the war. All during my
>> boyood I read countless fictional and historical accounts of the war. The,
>> and in later years that war was depicted over and over again in films from
>> the Guns of Navaronne to Private Ryan's war in a manner that fit with my
>> childhood image of WW II German soldiers, the SS, the Wermacht --
>> "krauts."
>> To me, the image of the word kraut, seems to have retained this primitive,
>> early, persistent, organizing image.
>>
>>
>>
>> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of shi, I
>> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating the
>> knowledge that
>>
>> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbage.
>>
>>
>>
>> Odd how mediation works.
>>
>> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary for the
>> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
>>
>>
>>
>> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
>> family,including many
>> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:16 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>
>> the following observations might be of interest. I wonder if others have
>>> had similar experiences. The dynamics of language and the paths of
>>> mediation seem to be clear to me, but maybe that is just an illusory
>>> artifact of reporting on introspective reports.
>>>
>>> what, as Dr. Matusov is fond of asking, do you think?
>>> mike
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>   Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I said,
>>> "Lets make that a part of the repetoir and my mind drifted to a search
>>> for
>>> other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time. "Shi," I
>>> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi" Sheila
>>> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has good
>>> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like." Then
>>> I
>>> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
>>> Russian.
>>> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
>>> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage
>>> soup, or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to
>>> myself,
>>> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
>>> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage, even
>>> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of course say
>>> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
>>> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My strong hunch is that, because I experienced WWII as a preschooler who
>>> became obsessed with the war. All during my boyood I read fictional and
>>> historical accounts of the war. In later years that war was depicted over
>>> and over again in films from the Guns of Navarone to Private Ryan's war
>>> in
>>> a manner that fit with my childhood image of WW II German soldiers, the
>>> SS,
>>> the Wermacht -- "krauts." To me, the image of the word kraut, seems to
>>> have
>>> retained this primitive, early, persistent, organizing image.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of shi, I
>>> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating the
>>> knowledge that
>>>
>>> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbabe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Odd how mediation works.
>>>
>>> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary for the
>>> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
>>> family,including many
>>>
>>> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
>>>
>>>
>>> ​darn!​
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>