[Xmca-l] Re: Asia tops global school rankings

[mike cole]

For a CHAT approach to cheating, see

http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Mail/xmcamail.2008_12.dir/att-0247/Yrjo.dev.pdf


mike

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:18 PM, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Carol:
>
> I think that programmes like PISA and TIMMS are not designed to, and do not
> actually claim to, predict individual academic success for the purposes of
> gate-keeping. Every study using PISA and TIMMS that I have read have used
> the tests as they were designed, to evaluate the overall effects of
> instruction on a whole society and to compare it with other societies.
>
> Like Haydi, I believe in testing, and I think LSV did too. But Vygotsky
> knew that academic success is by its very nature not individual. So if you
> want to really predict academic success on an individual scale, you can't
> do it by looking at what the child has already internalized, because that
> has been already individualized and is no longer predictive of future
> academic prowess.
>
> When I read Cole and Scribner (and also Stephen J. Gould), I find that what
> they have done is to take this argument and extend Vygotsky's skepticism
> about the predictive potential of testing beyond the individual and the
> interpersonal to the social and cultural. That is, if you really want to
> measure what it is to be a thinking, speaking person, you can't even
> confine yourself to looking at what a society has internalized and codified
> in its academic rituals; you need some measure that will look at very
> different societies and be able to see human progress in all its complex
> potential independent of one specific model. I think that the PISA and the
> TIMMS are NOT designed to do this, but I think that, oddly enough, they
> were pretty well designed to work in a modern Korean context. (China is a
> very different matter, though.)
> .
> I have never really studied the GRE, but I remember my wife taking it to
> get into graduate school in the USA. The mathematics portion has no
> predictive power over here in Asia (because of the ceiling effect) and the
> verbal quotient is mostly a test of language ability. Tests of language
> ability have been shown not to correlate with students' grades after the
> first semester or so of study, because the verbal ability of people who go
> and study in the USA changes quite rapidly.My wife also had to take a
> "literature" GRE test. In preparation, she read the whole of "Clarissa", an
> eighteenth century novel by Samuel Richardson in nine volumes (it has to be
> said that she's rather fond of that sort of thing, and I suspect she really
> just used GRE preparation as a pretext). There was only one question on
> Richardson in the whole test, and you could answer it without reading any
> book at all (I think it was something like "Who was the author of
> 'Pamela'?")
>
> David Kellogg
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear David
> >
> > I have been looking at the report on BBC.com at the moment.  I am not
> quite
> > clear about what you imply, in your dense text. Are we to discount this
> new
> > league table because of the nature of PISA and TIMMS assessments?
> >
> > I fully endorse you view of the "sat" nature of SAT.  Does the same apply
> > to the GRE? Are they in the same stable?
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> > On 13 May 2015 at 13:58, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am rooting--quite unironically--for the cheaters; since the
> psychology
> > > profession, with a few noble exceptions (such as Bernard Spolsky and
> > > Stephen J. Gould), has been largely derelict in its duty to expose the
> > > psychometric frauds, I think the only hope of putting them out of
> > business
> > > permanently lies in the highly ingenious work of Korean and Chinese
> > > test-takers, and I wish them all the best.
> > >
> > > The so-called SAT, whose predecessor was designed to keep Jews out of
> > > academia, now serves much the same purpose with respect to Asians
> (with,
> > I
> > > am pleased to say, about the same degree of success). According to
> > Bernard
> > > Spolsky, the extremely unstable statistical relationship of the "SAT'
> to
> > > either "aptitude" (that is, its ability to predict real academic
> success)
> > > or "achievement" (that is, its correlation with high school grades) is
> so
> > > tenuous that the company no longer claims that "A" actually stands for
> > > anything ("sat" just means you had to sit down and take a test).
> > >
> > > The true "cheating" scandal is the ability of ETS and other agents of
> the
> > > testing industry to sell wares which purport to predict academic
> success
> > > and in fact merely manufacture it for sale.
> > >
> > > David Kellogg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 8:10 PM, rjsp2 <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's all right, Peter. Cheating is a necessary life skill; this
> result
> > > > is measuring the fact that the Asians are better at it than we are,
> > > > hence are bound to succeed in life.
> > > >
> > > > Now where was that irony emoticon...
> > > >
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > On 13/05/2015 11:40, Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> And yet, here it says that cheating is rampant.
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/05/12/new-allegations-of-an-sat-security-breach-this-time-on-a-u-s-test/
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces+smago=uga.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > > >> xmca-l-bounces+smago=uga.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Dr.
> Paul
> > C.
> > > >> Mocombe
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 6:36 AM
> > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Asia tops global school rankings
> > > >>
> > > >> Asia tops global school rankings
> > > >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32608772
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> > > >> President
> > > >> The Mocombeian Foundation, inc.
> > > >> www.mocombeian.com
> > > >> www.readingroomcurriculum.com
> > > >> www.paulcmocombe.info
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > -- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391),
> an
> > > > exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in
> Scotland
> > > (SC
> > > > 038302). The Open University is authorised and regulated by the
> > Financial
> > > > Conduct Authority.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> > Developmental psycholinguist
> > Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> > Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> >
>



-- 

All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes
you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something
that isn't even visible. N. McLean, *A River Runs Through it*