[Xmca-l] Re: The Ideological Footprint of Artifacts

Fri Jun 5 08:03:06 PDT 2015

Hi Andy,

Thank you for the challenges☺

In this case, I am not talking about the use of the word ideology, I am talking about the nature of ideology in the political and social realms. People use the word in many different ways, and define the phenomenon in many different ways. Ideology is an institution, a system of ideas, guiding principles, etc., many things. I will stop short now of a full treatise on this topic. In the professional realms ideology is used in a very different ways. The most important implication is that the professional ideology is a system of ideas that might or may not be based on science. Just guiding principles that a person has endorsed, assimilated, and started to use.

Good science should not be ideological because the two institutions are incompatible. They have different functions in society. Both institutions develop ideas, but the purposes and the methods are completely different. The fact that both institutions develop ideas doesn’t tell us much. Literature also develops ideas, as well as mythology and folklore. But they are neither science nor ideologies.

Lubo

From: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 10:51 AM
To: Lubomir Savov Popov; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: The Ideological Footprint of Artifacts

Well, this is the whole issue of the ambiguity in how people use the word "ideology" isn't it, Lubmir?
You use "ideology" in the pejorative sense, therefore good science cannot be ideological, only bad science.
Fair enough. But I would go part way to the way David uses the word, ideology is a system of ideas, and science most certainly is a system of ideas, and also characteristic of a certain social strata or institution, but not thereby self-serving, dangerous, etc.

:)
Andy
________________________________
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 6/06/2015 12:43 AM, Lubomir Savov Popov wrote:

Hi Andy,

Ideologies might include laws of nature (including the social nature of society) but this is not a requirement. Ideologies are systems of principles or ideas that justify political talk, action, and behavior in order to defend or obtain a bigger piece of the pie (put it simply).

In this case, the natural science law by itself is not ideological. It becomes ideological when it is included in the body of an ideology, when it is appropriated by a group of people to serve their objectives. But this doesn't make a natural law ideological by itself. Now, you might say that the discovery or formulation of a natural science law might be influenced by political ideology. This is a completely different talk. Bolshevik ideology influenced the discovery of the principle of the leading role of the proletariat. You can tell me if this this is a real law in the social realm or an ideological construct. Certain social "discoveries" in totalitarian or authoritarian countries claimed to be based on science and to be scientific laws of nature, but in effect these were ideological constructions in disguise.

There is a major difference between science and ideology as social institutions. The goal of science is to understand the world as it is (or the closest approximation); the goal of ideology is to defend our socioeconomic position at any rate, no matter what. Ideology can use science or might pretend to be using science, which is most often the case. If we mix science and ideology, if we idologize science, we make a dangerous mix that can kill billions of people (so far only a few hundred million in and around two world wars).

Best wishes,

Lubo

-----Original Message-----

From: xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden

Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 10:31 AM

To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>

Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Ideological Footprint of Artifacts

So for example, Lubomir, if a natural scientist formulates a law of nature which stands up to the test of time for over a century (e.g. Darwin), it surely is ideological, but would you claim that it reflects the interests of Charles Darwin (and maybe other biologists) and does not have within it a universal truth. (NB not = objective or universal truth, but "has within it" or "has a basis in universal experience,"

etc.) Is it really all relative??

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------

*Andy Blunden*

http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/

On 6/06/2015 12:19 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote:

I don't know if this helps but in researching this term a few years ago with a student we found the term emerged right after the French revolution.  Instead of basing a social system on the activities of the populace and building up from these there was a movement to base the political system on a set of ideals.  This was disparaged I guess by a number of the more intense revolutionaries and they began to call this group of idealists ideologues - leading to the idea of basing your vision of government (or expanded to almost anything) in a set of abstract ideals.  I believe it was Marx who remarked that these French ideologues were walking on their heads - the goal of Marxists was to flip them back over so they are walking on their feet again (I believe this is what people often confuse as Marx flipping Hegel on his head - I have never been able to find a quote that backs that up.  If anybody does know of it please let me know).

Interestingly side note is that Thomas Jefferson was in France at the time and brought back the idea of ideology to the United States wanting to develop a system based on ideology and not practice.  The French eventually flipped over a few times, but in the United States we have been mired in ideology since Jefferson's return.

Michael

-----Original Message-----

From: xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>

[mailto:xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu]

On Behalf Of Lubomir Savov Popov

Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 10:03 AM

To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity

Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Ideological Footprint of Artifacts

Hello everyone,

A core definition of ideology in the political sense should highlight that it is a system for defending the social position/status that individuals and groups acquire in the economic process. All the rest is derivative. In that light, politics is also an instrument for defending or obtaining a desired position in the socio-economic process.

In the professions, the word/term ideology is often used to denote a system of general believes and principles that drive professional decision making.

Political ideologies affect design decision making and in that way affect the organization of artifact functions and morphology. And of course, professional ideologies drive this process overtly.

Best wishes,

Lubomir