[Xmca-l] Re: Notes on Blindness

[mike cole]

I am in synch with that interpretation, Larry.

In this regard, note that the key idea behind Luria's so-called "combined
motor method" focused centrally on the *discoordination* of culturally
mediated joint activity.
mike

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike,
> This term "infusion" seems to suggest "permeable" type flowing intonation
> into words. Luria's voice should definitely be added to explore this realm.
>
> Adding  Zinchenko's voice to this chorus, in the book chapter "Thought and
> Word The Approaches of L. S. Vygotsky and G. G. Shpet"  Zinchenko wrote"
> Andrew Bely saw movement and rhythm behind thought. Mikhail Bakhtin saw
> emotion and will behind thought, and he saw intonation IN thought, "the
> truly acting mind is a mind of emotions and volition, a mind of intonation,
> and this intonation essentially PENETRATES all the significant moments of
> thinking" [Bahktin].  He also saw behind thought another person - an
> interlocutor, or participant in a dialogue, "Human thought becomes a true
> thought, an idea, only under conditions of live contact with someone else's
> thought embodied in someone else's voice, which is someone else's mind
> expressed in words .... The idea is a LIVING EVENT, occurring in a point of
> dramatic meeting of two or more minds.  In this regard, the idea is similar
> to word, with which it is dialectically united" [Bahktin]. Vygotsky
> expressed a similar idea about thought as a unity of communication and
> generalization. [page 214]
>
> So the term "boundary" may be an inaccurate metaphor for exploring this
> realm implying two separated places or poles [the verbal and the
> nonverbal].
> The realm we are exploring is trying to convey that ALL living events
> including verbal events are "infused" with rhythm and intonation.
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 3:50 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > Henry,Larry et al -- ​I understand the use of the term "at the boundary
> of
> > the verbal and the nonverbal." I for sure agree that ​intonation is
> > essential to language. The word boundary, I believe, may undercut the
> > equally important idea that intonation *infuses* language. *It* is not on
> > the border. I love watching signers, knowing no sign, because of the
> > intonation and dancing movements that accompany the oral speech.
> >
> > It is significant that Tanya Akhutina is using these ideas because she is
> > one of the leading
> > practitioners of Luria's ideas. In *Man With a Shattered World* and
> > elsewhere, Luria talks of "kinetic melodies" and uses such melodies as
> part
> > of this program of remediation of Zasetski's shattered brain. Oliver
> Sachs
> > has just written a book on music I have not seen yet. It must have a good
> > deal to say here.
> > mike
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Henry,
> > > This quote, especially the aspect:
> > >
> > >  Intonation is always at the boundary of the verbal and the nonverbal,
> > the
> > > spoken and the unspoken. Intonation is oriented in two directions:
> toward
> > > the listener... and toward the object of the utterance as if to a third
> > > living participant.
> > >
> > > This brings in the cornerstone of the 'object" AS IF a third living
> > > participant.  Intonation, attunement, and resonance exploring the
> rhythm
> > AT
> > > the boundary or the margin of this triangulated  "space"  of where
> > > possibility exists. This extralinguistic context with its felt
> structure
> > > which is not yet articulated.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:57 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mike and all,
> > > > I found this quote from Voloshinov (1926) in T.V. AKHUTINA
> > > > The Theory of Verbal Communication in the Works of M.M. Bakhtin and
> > L.S.
> > > > Vygotsky (2003, p. 102):
> > > > "Intonation establishes the close connection between the word and the
> > > > extralinguistic context. Living intonation is virtually able to
> release
> > > the
> > > > word from its verbal limits. . . . Intonation is always at the
> boundary
> > > of
> > > > the verbal and the nonverbal, the spoken and the unspoken. Intonation
> > is
> > > > oriented in two directions: toward the listener... and toward the
> > object
> > > of
> > > > the utterance as if to a third living participant."
> > > >
> > > > I wonder what Bakhtin had to say about non-verbal gesture which
> > > > accompanies speech, which could not be seen by a blind person. Does
> one
> > > > sense become heightened when another is compromised? Does language
> > > provide
> > > > redundancy to help the listener?
> > > >
> > > > Henry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 23, 2015, at 2:02 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > All seems relevant to the imagination thread to me!
> > > > > mike
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Greg Thompson <
> > > > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Larry,
> > > > >> (if you'll allow me this reduction of your post)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Brilliant expansion!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -greg
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Larry Purss <
> lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Greg,
> > > > >>> Memory as requiring the process of reduction of the manifold of
> > > > >> experience
> > > > >>> does seem to an interesting question which may offer a
> possibility
> > > for
> > > > >>> further expansion. I mean this metaphorically as a reciprocal
> > "dance"
> > > > of
> > > > >>> reduction and expansion.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> The "reciprocal" awareness that possibly not only memories but
> also
> > > our
> > > > >>> theories and our conceptions may be relying too much on the
> > processes
> > > > of
> > > > >>> memory [after the fact] and therefore loosing sight of the
> > > > multi-modality
> > > > >>> of experience as it unfolds.
> > > > >>> Greg as you point "out" - to be seen is to be made (cf. Bakhtin's
> > > > notion
> > > > >>> of "consummation").
> > > > >>> Your insight where you say that filling the whole of the audible
> > > > >>> environment is an experience of beauty, which has something to do
> > > with
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>> complexity of the image  in  motion, alive, moving, unfixed, with
> > > > shades
> > > > >>> and textures constantly
> > > > >>> changing.
> > > > >>> Instead of being isolated, cut off, preoccupied, internally, you
> > are
> > > > >>> presented with a world. You are related to a world. You are
> > addressed
> > > > by
> > > > >> a
> > > > >>> world.
> > > > >>> Robert Nichols in exploring the meaning of freedom and
> recognition
> > > > says,
> > > > >>> "To stand in a 'free' relation to the world, to oneself and one's
> > > > ethical
> > > > >>> commitments, is to know that one's standpoint does not exhaust
> the
> > > > total
> > > > >>> range of meaningful, viable, and worthwhile possibilities."  For
> > > Robert
> > > > >>> beauty as 'being-in-the-world' depends on the "extent" to which
> we
> > > > >> actually
> > > > >>> "embody" the world through receptivity, fragility, indeterminacy,
> > and
> > > > >>> interconnectivity. [similar sentiments to the notion of
> "surrender"
> > > or
> > > > >>> "acceptance" as an ethical commitment]
> > > > >>> Robert Nichols perceives an ethical commitment that emerges
> within
> > an
> > > > >>> awareness of how one cares for the world and how one has an
> > > > "attachment"
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>> existence.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Greg, is it possible that memory, and theory "about" how one
> > > re-members
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>> re-cognizes and re-presents and re-duces and then articulates the
> > > world
> > > > >> as
> > > > >>> the "truth"  contributes to being isolated, cut off, preoccupied.
> > > The
> > > > >>> world foreclosed.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Requiring that "we" once again  turn [or re-turn] to being within
> > the
> > > > >> world
> > > > >>> as situated presence. The musical resonance of "attunement"
> within
> > > the
> > > > >>> world prior to re-collecting and re-ducing the world through
> memory
> > > > which
> > > > >>> highlights the salient features.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Greg Thompson <
> > > > >> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Annalisa,
> > > > >>>> Yes, you said it very well, much better than I did in my prior
> > post
> > > > >> which
> > > > >>>> was a bit intellectually garbled (and I missed the article that
> > went
> > > > >>> along
> > > > >>>> with it, so thanks for pointing that out!).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> But I do think that there is an interesting point to be made
> about
> > > the
> > > > >>>> importance of the reduction of the manifold of experience that
> is
> > > > >>> essential
> > > > >>>> to memory.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I once assembled a paper that argued that forgetting should be
> > seen
> > > as
> > > > >> a
> > > > >>>> tool of ethnography since when one reduces one's experience to
> > what
> > > is
> > > > >>>> remembered, one has gotten to something that was somehow
> > important.
> > > > >>>> Reviewers thought it was just an excuse for doing lazy
> > ethnographic
> > > > >>>> research. Perhaps it was...
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> What ever happened to that paper?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I can't remember...
> > > > >>>> -greg
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Annalisa Aguilar <
> > annalisa@unm.edu
> > > >
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Greg!
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Yes the piece is really great and well produced!
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> If you read the article that accompanies the video on the Times
> > > page,
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>> writers indicate that over time as he adjusted to blindness, he
> > > came
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>>>> revel in the other senses to the point that when he was helping
> > > with
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>> movie, he'd forgotten that he'd gone through that painful time,
> > and
> > > > >>>>> apparently wasn't happy to revisit the memories. I think that
> is
> > > the
> > > > >>>> point
> > > > >>>>> of the last scene with the rain (inside), to show that he began
> > to
> > > > >>> "see"
> > > > >>>>> differently, with sound. Maybe? At least, that is how I
> > interpreted
> > > > >> it.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I also thought, as you, it was remarkable that he remembered
> > > > >>> photographs,
> > > > >>>>> maybe these map in memory differently? Like you say because of
> > > > >>> reduction
> > > > >>>> of
> > > > >>>>> modality?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> What also seems significant is that if we don't use those
> organs
> > of
> > > > >>>>> perceptions we lose memories of those perceptions. Which may
> mean
> > > > >> that
> > > > >>>>> memory is something that must be reconstructed with the organ
> > > > >> somehow,
> > > > >>>> even
> > > > >>>>> if we aren't using the organ to perceive externally while
> > retrieval
> > > > >> of
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>> memory? I'm not sure I explained that very well…
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Annalisa
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > > >>>> Assistant Professor
> > > > >>>> Department of Anthropology
> > > > >>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > > >>>> Brigham Young University
> > > > >>>> Provo, UT 84602
> > > > >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > > >> Assistant Professor
> > > > >> Department of Anthropology
> > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > > >> Brigham Young University
> > > > >> Provo, UT 84602
> > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as
> an
> > > > object
> > > > > that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
> object
> > that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
> >
>



-- 
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an object
that creates history. Ernst Boesch.