[Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context

Sat Jan 3 11:24:53 PST 2015

Greg -- that's a great idea.  I think is has been done, but without a label. Want to nominate an example?

Helena

Helena Worthen
helenaworthen@gmail.com

On Jan 3, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:

> Seems to me that Spivak's "Can the subaltern speak?" is just as much a
> question of "Can the Western intellectual hear/listen?"
> 
> Makes me wonder about articulating a Pedagogy of the Oppressors.
> 
> -greg
> 
> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Miguel/Mike,
>> 
>> I think we have a testimonio here. We have questions borne out of a
>> traumatic historical and social episode (WWII), followed by a movement
>> outward "going East," only to discover one's self "Dewey." The self becomes
>> an allegory for the whole. It may seem that Spivak is saying translation is
>> impossible, but I think a testimonio shows the possibility of translation.
>> Thanks for this gift and happy new year!
>> 
>> Aria
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 PM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>> 
>> I inherited such questions as part of my family history and my coming to
>> age during the period of post world war II decolonization, Aria, well
>> before I travelled East, as you suggest. Interestingly, it was in going in
>> East that I discovered Dewey.... such was the form of education that led to
>> my phd.
>> 
>> Concerning misleading translations.
>> I have PLENTY of problems with issues of translating Vygotsky, in words
>> and in practice! Ask any Russian or scholar whose knowledge of Russian was
>> acquired after the age of 20! (Plenty right here on xmca, one I can see
>> logged into gmail right now). There is a piece in MCA a while back on the
>> perils of translating a key term involving eaching/learning/instruction
>> that is part of an ongoing set of questions about the meaning of the term,
>> zone of proximal development.
>> 
>> Peter's note with the distinction between decolonial/postcolonial seems to
>> pick up on some of the themes that various folks who participated in the
>> Migrant program are making.  Gotta check out wikipedia on third spaces. The
>> metaphor sure has a lot of homes in a lot of discourse communities and I
>> suspect that some translation will be needed!
>> 
>> mike
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Mike, would you say that you have been seeking answers to these
>>> questions by "going East"? I think Spivak would agree with the second
>>> question. In "Translating into English" she talks about how
>>> "generations of empiricist English translators have missed the point
>>> with Marx's philosophical presuppositions, translated 'inhaltslos' as
>>> 'slight in content' and thus made nonsense out of the entire
>>> discussion of value. You may have had a smiliar experience translating
>> Vygotsky.
>>> 
>>> Here it is:
>>> 
>>> http://przeklad.nazwa.pl/schowek/spivak2.pdf
>>> 
>>> Aria
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:07 PM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>> 
>>> Aria--- I had not read the Spivak article, although the question she
>>> asks is one I have been asking myself for half a century. And, I would
>>> add, under what conditions?
>>> 
>>> I found the article here in case others share my ignorance.
>>> mike
>>> 
>>> http://www.mcgill.ca/files/crclaw-discourse/Can_the_subaltern_speak.pd
>>> f
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Larry,
>>>> 
>>>> The specific stance that is amplified by the intersections of "third
>>>> space" post-colonial theory, sociocultural theory, and "testimonio"
>>>> is somewhat apparent in the language choice. There is no English
>>>> equivalent because there cannot be an English equivalent. At least,
>>>> there cannot be an "English-Only" equivalent. It represents a
>>>> movement toward an indigenous stance on voice, agency, knowledge,
>>>> certainty, validity, language choice, and learning. I say a "movement
>> toward"
>>>> because Spanish itself carries similar baggage especially within the
>>>> Latin American context. This is the rationale for why some use the
>>>> Aztec idea of Nepantla instead of "Third Space" (e.g., Rochelle
>>>> Guiterrez, Gloria Anzaldua). "Testimonio" further complicates what
>>>> it means for "subalterns" to "reclaim voice" through the dominant
>> voice.
>>>> This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
>>>> subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
>>>> outside" the inscribed institutional roles, together in order to
>>>> move "to the roots of our being human together." Spivak was
>>>> specfically critiqueing "the Western intellectual" voice wondering
>>>> if it truly could be a tool of liberation. It seems like a "core"
>>>> identity question as we move through various historical
>>>> entanglements seeking answers to ontological questions of self in
>>>> relation to other. Also
>>> looking forward to this type of re-search.
>>>> 
>>>> Aria
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
>>>> Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
>>>> Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of Illinois
>>>> at Chicago
>>>> 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607
>>>> 
>>>> Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and Action
>>>> Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
>>>> 
>>>> Webpage: http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
>>>> Tel: 312-413-8373
>>>> Fax: 312-996-8134
>>>> 
>>>> This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
>>>> subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
>>>> outside" the inscribed roles, together in order to move "to the
>>>> roots of our being human together." It seems like a "core" identity
>>>> question as we move through various historical entanglements seeking
>>>> answers to ontological questions of self in relation to other. Also
>>>> looking forward to this type of re-search.
>>>> 
>>>> Aria
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>> xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry
>>>> xmca-l-bounces+Purss
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:08 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>> 
>>>> Aria,
>>>> I want to repeat and amplify your suggestion :
>>>> 
>>>> It is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
>>>> analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g., liminality,
>>>> double consciousness, third place, etc.). The post-colonial uptake
>>>> of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak) within the sociocultural
>>>> theory is a very specific stance and this might be the moment for
>>>> that
>>> conversation as well.
>>>> 
>>>> To focus on the *third space* as a VERY SPECIFIC stance.
>>>> I would like to become clear on the centrality of *witnessing* as
>>>> central or the re-search fades away.
>>>> Also terms such as *mutuality* contrasted with *reciprocity* or
>>>> *transactions*.
>>>> 
>>>> Testimonios as neither subjective [alone] or objective [alone] but a
>>>> hybrid MODE that is a form of witnessing.
>>>> I would also suggest the theme of *gift* as more than transaction or
>>>> echange [in continental philosophy traditions] is relevant.
>>>> 
>>>> There is a *spirit* and a moral virtue within this form of
>>>> witnessing as *third space* that plays around with notions of
>>>> *trans* as moving across forms [horizons] as trans-versals [or
>> trans-verse-als] .
>>>> I have an intuition that this type of witnessing is radical, going
>>>> to the roots of our being human together.
>>>> 
>>>> Aria, I look forward to further re-search Larry
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> For those of us working with Kris' sociocritical perspective,
>>>>> third space has been a valuable construct for thinking about
>>>>> collective learning zopeds and consciousness for that matter. It
>>>>> is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
>>>>> analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g.,
>>>>> liminality, double consciousness, third place, etc.). The
>>>>> post-colonial uptake of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak)
>>>>> within the sociocultural theory is a very specific stance and this
>>>>> might be the moment for that conversation as
>>>> well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
>>>>> Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
>>>>> Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of
>>>>> Illinois at Chicago
>>>>> 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
>>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607
>>>>> 
>>>>> Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and
>>>>> Action Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> Webpage:
>>>>> http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
>>>>> Tel: 312-413-8373
>>>>> Fax: 312-996-8134
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Kris
>>>>> Gutierrez
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:56 PM
>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>> 
>>>>> Annalisa, Manuel initiated the last uptake. (I think others have
>>>>> clarified that now :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike C., Miguel Zavala, Larry Purss and I posted some thoughts
>>>>> before the holidays.  For me it is useful to connect Manuel’s
>>>>> recent post to those earlier thoughts/conversations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some very quick very unedited thoughts following up on Manuel’s post:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michael G., Mike C. correctly points out that the
>>>>> testimonios/autobiographies were not research techniques but
>>>>> generative tools that were indeed a part of the interconnected set
>>>>> of practices that created a collective zoped—a third space if you
>> will.
>>>>> I try to elaborate this idea in the Scribner Lecture piece
>>>>> (sociocritical literacies).  My own work on Third Space, the
>>>>> collective work of the instructional team of MSI, ongoing
>>>>> conversations with Mike C. and Yrjo over the years at the lab, and
>>>>> their work certainly informed this idea of a collective zoped,
>>>>> collective third space  (See Engeström, 1987, 1994 in particular;
>>>>> Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993; Tuomi-Gröhn & Engeström, 2003; Tuomi-
>>>>> Gröhn, Engeström, & Young, 2003; Chaiklin, 2003, Moll, 1990; Moll
>>>>> & Greenberg, 1990 as key examples that certainly inform this work
>>>>> as
>>> well.
>>>> And LSV and Bakhtin are ever present).
>>>>> These, I think, are useful references, all cited in the article.
>>>>> Shirin Vossoughi’s recent MCA piece also is very relevant to this
>>>> discussion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some relevant excerpts from the sociocritical article,
>>>>> 
>>>>> "To illustrate these points and their relation to a collective
>>>>> Third Space, let us examine the MSLI more closely.
>>>>> The activity system, the MSLI, has a specific internal logic
>>>>> organized around expanding the students’ sociohistorical and
>>>>> educational ecology through the collective imagining of a new
>>>>> educational and sociopolitical future.
>>>>> To avoid the “interactional reductionism implicit in much
>>>>> Vygotskian-inspired research” (Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993, p. 284),
>>>>> the specific interactions and practices of the MSLI are understood
>>>>> as what Nicolopoulou and Cole call a “genuinely collective reality”
>>> (p. 284).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here we see the [Migrant] institute as an example of the Third
>>>>> Space, a collective zo-ped, at the larger level of activity the
>>>>> object of which is the sociohistorical reconstruction of what it
>>>>> means to be a migrant student.
>>>>> This movement involves a process of becoming conscious “historical
>>>> actors”
>>>>> (Espinoza, 2003) who invoke the past in order to re-mediate it so
>>>>> that it becomes a resource for current and future action (p. 154)."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Testimonios and their embodiment in Teatro del Oprimido (Boal’s
>>>>> Theatre of the Oppressed that Manuel introduced to us and the
>>>>> program and that he and Vossoughi elaborated) were key means of
>>>>> developing/inciting a new social and pedagogical imagination and
>>>>> for imagining new futures with/for the migrant students, their
>>>>> communities, and indeed for all of us, as Manuel so thoughtfully
>>>>> writes. Teatro served as a collective problem-solving space—a
>>>>> space where the playful imagination helped to make inequities and
>>>>> the roots of social problems visible, while providing an
>>>>> opportunity to re-frame events, re-mediate and enact an imagined
>>>>> future collectively (such as flying collectively/social dreaming).
>>>>> I hope Manuel and Shirin jump in and elaborate these thoughts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Re: Research design:  For me, Migrant was in Yrjo and Mike's
>>>>> approach, a formative experiment; what I term social design
>>>>> experiments—a designed based research approach that foregrounds
>>>>> equity, diversity, historicity, and re-mediation, for example. As
>>>>> Susan Jurow and I wrote and presented at the ICLS conference this
>>>>> summer (a piece that we expect will be part of a larger set of
>>>>> papers with Mike C., Yrjo and Annalisa, and Bill Penuel), social
>>>>> design experiments: aim to make possible a sustainable and
>>>>> dignified life for all humans; address the challenges of
>>>>> leveraging cultural diversity and reducing social inequality; and
>>>>> call for the co-design of new tools and futures with members of
>>>>> non-dominant communities, as but a few key design principles.
>>>>> 
>>>>>     Absolutely, research as re-searching—searching for the answer
>>>>> to a question you have searched for repeatedly without success!
>>>>> Well said, Miguel Cole! Thanks, for your thoughts, Michael Glassman!
>>>>> 
>>>>>     more on sociocritical literacies, later.   kris
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kris Gutierrez
>>>>> gutierkd@gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kris D. Gutiérrez
>>>>> Professor
>>>>> Graduate School of Education
>>>>> 5629 Tolman Hall #1670
>>>>> University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720-1670
>>>>> 
>>>>> Distinguished Professor
>>>>> Learning Sciences and Literacy
>>>>> School of Education
>>>>> University of Colorado, Boulder
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:50 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry for being silly here, but I couldn't help but see that so
>>>>>> far on
>>>>> this thread, there have been appearances by:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> mike, Annalisa, Michael, Luisa, and Miguel!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson