[Xmca-l] Re: Fun &Games
Glassman, Michael
glassman.13@osu.edu
Thu Aug 20 07:31:59 PDT 2015
Thanks Rolf - Calvin and Hobbes was a lot of fun, but not play. A little later I am going to go play basketball with a lot of people who are better than me - which is play but often not a whole lot of fun.
And life goes on.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Rolf Steier
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 10:07 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fun &Games
Some insight from Calvin and Hobbes (series of 3 strips)...
[image: Inline image 1][image: Inline image 2][image: Inline image 4]
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 2:05 PM, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wolfgang Koehler, the Gestalt psychologist whose work on chimpanzees
> so impressed Vygotsky (see, inter alia, Chapter Four of Thinking and
> Speech), remarked that contrary to what Mark Twain said humans are not
> the only species that laughs. Chimpanzees on Tenerife where he worked
> used to offer food to his hens, and then, when the hens tried to eat
> it, they would pull the food away and eat it themselves with a huffing
> sound, which Koehler interpreted as laughter. Anyone who watches
> elementary school children having fun notices almost right away that
> one of the most elementary forms of fun is not at all collusion
> between subversives against the higher powers but precisely the
> opposite: individualistic acts of aggression and aggrandizement
> precisely against children perceived to be more helpless, who offer "fun" with impunity.
>
> So I think the real question, as always, is how higher forms develop
> (and actually, Greg, I was quite serious when I said that I thought
> imaginary situations and abstract rules represented developmentally
> higher forms of play). One possibility that occurs to me is a kind of
> "self parody". That is, if you are looking for fun with impunity, one
> of the few really reliable sources might be making fun of yourself.
> Self-directed fun then becomes something like self-directed speech,
> something that is internalizable as a kind of imaginary situation or even an imaginary self.
>
> But there are always limits to impunity. Over the last few days I've
> been watching with horror the cell phone videos made from apartment
> windows in Tianjin, where twenty tons of TNT went up in a huge
> fireball that was both immediately lethal to over a hundred people and
> toxic to countless others in the long term. The cell phone videos
> always have sound tracks filled with laughter and obscenities (in both
> Chinese and English--some were made by locals and some by
> expatriates). And the sort of things that people exclaim when they are
> having fun. And then the shock wave shatters the apartment window and there is blood everywhere.
>
> David Kellogg
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I think the relationships between play, playfulness, enjoyment and
> > fun
> are
> > important features of social and cultural interactions but slippery
> > and resistant to any kind of definition. Indeed I suspect that we
> > enjoy playfulness and fun partly because it reminds us that
> > seemingly rigid
> rules
> > and constraints can be played with and loosened up. I think there is
> > a
> kind
> > of exuberant playfulness, just one of the layered meanings of fun
> > listed
> in
> > Robert's post, which depends on interaction- when two or more people
> > recognise that they are engaging in a shared exchange of playful
> > interactions they can enter into an escalating spiral, as the 'loosening'
> > of conventional constraints allows them to reveal more of themselves
> > to each other. The mix of enjoyment with a touch of riskiness can
> > build to exuberant hilarity which can also reinforce a feeling of
> > trust between
> the
> > 'players'. Though not always- it can sometimes veer off into teasing
> > and 'making fun OF' someone.
> >
> > I wonder whether the sense of the riskiness of fun might play a part
> > in the negative connotations usually now associated with
> > 'collusion'. People who WORK together (collaborate) are socially
> > safe but people who PLAY together (collude) are socially dangerous
> > because they encourage each
> other
> > to loosen the hold of social constraints and expectations. Which may
> > be more fun for the players than for others outside their circle.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > On 19 Aug 2015 5:22 pm, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> > My queries were going in a direction with yours, Rolf. Play is a
> > leading activity in LSV-Elkonin-Leontiev. But somehow developmental
> > psychologists do not appear to make use of the term and I do not
> > know who does.
> >
> > Robert's etymology is certainly interesting. Modern usage seems to
> > still have a bit of that tricksterism dwelling within it.
> >
> > And, like Helen, the way this confused semantic space is organized
> > in different languages is fascinating. I have been playing with
> > english-russian and then checking various options for backtranslationg.
> >
> > A tangled web, me thinks.
> >
> > I have this feeling that imagination plays different roles in the
> > two domains, however they turn out to be constituted.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> >
> > That's great, Robert.
> >
> > I have been playing with translations and back-translations between
> Russian
> > and English.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Robert Lake <
> boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It is interesting (and fun) to look up word origins in the OED.
> > > which reveals a significant cultural/historically shaped evolution.
> > > See below.
> > > *Robert*
> > >
> > > *Oxford English Dictionary*
> > >
> > > *Etymology:* probably < fun *v.*
> > > <http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/75468#eid3558958>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > †*1.* A cheat or trick; a hoax, a practical joke.
> > >
> > > 1699 B. E. *New Dict. Canting Crew* *Fun*, a Cheat or slippery
> Trick.
> > >
> > > 1719 in T. D'Urfey *Wit & Mirth* V. 259 A Hackney Coachman he did
> buy
> > > her, And was not this a very good Fun.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *2.*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *a.* Diversion, amusement, sport; also, boisterous jocularity or
> gaiety,
> > > drollery. Also, a source or cause of amusement or
> > > pleasure.(Johnson
> 1755
> > > stigmatizes it as ‘a low cant word’; in present use it is merely
> somewhat
> > > familiar.)
> > >
> > > 1727 Swift *Misc. Epit. By-words* Tho' he talk'd much of virtue,
> his
> > > head always run Upon something or other she found better fun.
> > >
> > > 1749 H. Fielding *Tom Jones* III. ix. vi. 354 Partridge..was a
> great
> > > Lover of what is called Fun.
> > >
> > > 1751 E. Moore *Gil Blas* Prol. sig. A3, Don't mind me tho'— For all
> > my
> > > Fun and Jokes.
> > >
> > > 1767 H. Brooke *Fool of Quality* I. 99 Vindex..looked smilingly
> about
> > > him with much fun in his face.
> > >
> > > *a*1774 A. Tucker *Light of Nature Pursued* (1777) III. iii. 10 It
> is
> > > fun to them to break off an ornament, or disfigure a statue.
> > >
> > > 1790 R. Burns *Tam o' Shanter* in *Poems & Songs* (1968) II. 561
> The
> > > mirth and fun grew fast and furious.
> > >
> > > 1836 Dickens *Pickwick Papers* (1837) ii. 7 ‘What's the fun?’ said
> a
> > > rather tall thin young man.
> > >
> > > 1845 S. C. Hall *Bk. Gems* 90 His wit and humour delightful, when
> it
> > > does not degenerate into ‘fun’.
> > >
> > > 1849 E. E. Napier *Excursions Southern Afr.* II. 331 Being better
> > > mounted than the rest of his troop, [he] pushed on to see more of
> > > the
> > fun.
> > >
> > > 1887 M. Shearman *Athletics & Football* 325 Most footballers play
> for
> > > the fun and the fun alone.
> > >
> > > 1889 J. K. Jerome *Idle Thoughts* 42 There is no fun in doing
> nothing
> > > when you have nothing to do.
> > >
> > > 1891 S. Baring-Gould *In Troubadour-land* iv. 50, I do not see the
> > fun
> > > of going to hotels of the first class.
> > >
> > > 1934 *Punch* 9 May 526/1 A Rector in an unapostolic fury is rather
> > fun.
> > >
> > > 1954 *Economist* 20 Mar. His book has all the charm of science
> > fiction;
> > > it is enormous fun.
> > >
> > > 1958 *Listener* 25 Dec. 1085/1 The clothes were Jacobean, and fun
> to
> > > wear.
> > >
> > > *(Hide quotations)*
> > > <
> > >
> >
> http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/75467?rskey=SpD3uz&result=1&isAdvanced=f
> alse
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *b.* Phr. *to make fun of* , *poke fun at* (a person, etc.): to
> > > ridicule. *for or in
> > > fun* : as a joke, sportively, not seriously. *(he, it is) good,
> > > great
> > fun*
> > > :
> > > a source of much amusement. *like fun*: energetically, very
> > > quickly, vigorously. *what fun!* how very amusing! *for the fun of the thing*:
> for
> > > amusement; *to have fun (with)* : to enjoy (a process); *spec.* to
> > > have sexual intercourse.
> > >
> > > 1737 H. Walpole *Corr.* (1820) I. 17, I can't help making fun of
> > > myself.
> > >
> > > 1826 M. M. Sherwood *Lady of Manor* (ed. 2) IV. xxi. 247 Then you
> > won't
> > > make fun of me, will you?
> > >
> > > 1834 S. Smith *Sel. Lett. Major Jack Downing* ix. 24 They put their
> > > hats on and began to laugh like fun.
> > >
> > > 1840 T. Hood *Up Rhine* 145 The American..in a dry way began to
> ‘poke
> > > his fun’ at the unfortunate traveller.
> > >
> > > 1848 J. R. Lowell *Biglow Papers* 1st Ser. iv. 98 Stickin' together
> > > like fun.
> > >
> > > 1848 E. C. Gaskell *Mary Barton* I. v. 73 Carsons' mill is blazing
> > away
> > > like fun.
> > >
> > > 1849 E. Bulwer-Lytton *Caxtons* I. i. iv. 29 You would be very
> sorry
> > if
> > > your mamma was to..break it for fun.
> > >
> > > 1857 T. Hughes *Tom Brown's School Days* ii. iii. 273 The bolts
> went
> > to
> > > like fun.
> > >
> > > 1860 T. P. Thompson *Audi Alteram Partem* III. cxxvi. 82 Who knows
> > but
> > > Volunteer Rifles may make a campaign in the Holy Land, and mount
> > > guard
> > over
> > > the production of the holy fire at Easter? ‘What fun!’
> > >
> > > 1871 B. Jowett tr. Plato *Dialogues* I. 145 He may pretend in fun
> > that
> > > he has a bad memory.
> > >
> > > 1876 M. M. Grant *Sun-maid* I. iii. 104 The races are great fun.
> > >
> > > 1877 *Independent* 19 July 15/2 Little Tad commissioned lieutenant
> by
> > > Stanton, ‘just for the fun of the thing’.
> > >
> > > 1891 N. Gould *Double Event* 1 He's such good fun, and he's so
> > > obliging.
> > >
> > > 1893 J. S. Farmer & W. E. Henley *Slang* III. 86/2 *To have* (or
> > *do*)
> > > *a
> > > bit of fun*, to procure or enjoy the sexual favour.
> > >
> > > 1895 H. A. Kennedy in *19th Cent.* Aug. 331, I suppose the
> > wood-carver
> > > was poking fun at him?
> > >
> > > 1903 M. Beerbohm *Around Theatres* (1924) I. 425 Amateur mimes..go
> in
> > > for private theatricals..just for the fun of the thing.
> > >
> > > 1958 *Times Lit. Suppl.* 7 Feb. 73/4 The clerks..get their own back
> > by
> > > unmasking frauds and..having fun with the low standard of French
> > commercial
> > > honesty.
> > >
> > > 1961 M. Dickens *Heart of London* ii. 198 Ambrosia had pushed Edgar
> > and
> > > the girl in there with the admonition to have some fun, dears.
> > >
> > > *(Hide quotations)*
> > > <
> > >
> >
> http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/75467?rskey=SpD3uz&result=1&isAdvanced=f
> alse
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *c.* Exciting goings-on. Also *fun and games*, freq. used
> > > ironically;
> > > *spec.* amatory play. *colloq.*
> > >
> > > 1879 W. J. Barry *Up & Down* vii. 51 We..had a good passage to
> > > Hong-Kong. When we arrived, the first Chinese war with Britain had
> broken
> > > out, and there was every appearance of plenty of fun to be shortly
> > > had
> > with
> > > the Chinkies.
> > >
> > > 1897 *Daily News* 13 Sept. 7/1 The engineer officers who are
> engaged
> > in
> > > carrying out some of the Sirdar's plans get much more than their
> > > fair
> > share
> > > of ‘the fun’.
> > >
> > > 1898 *Westm. Gaz.* 28 Oct. 3/1 It is possible that there may be
> rare
> > > fun by-and-by on the Nile.
> > >
> > > 1920 ‘Sapper’ *Bull-dog Drummond* vi. 155 We've had lots of fun and
> > > games since I last saw you.
> > >
> > > 1940 N. Mitford *Pigeon Pie* iii. 66 Farther on, however, you come
> to
> > > jolly fun and games—great notices.
> > >
> > > 1948 E. Partridge *Dict. Forces' Slang* 78 *Fun and games*, any
> sort
> > of
> > > brush with the enemy at sea.
> > >
> > > 1948 ‘N. Shute’ *No Highway* iii. 70 ‘Fun and games,’ he said. ‘The
> > > boffin's going mad.’
> > >
> > > 1952 E. Grierson *Reputation for Song* xxix. 260 Beneath the
> orderly
> > > conduct of her bar there was always present the possibility of
> > > ‘fun and games’.
> > >
> > > 1954 C. Armstrong *Better to eat You* ii. 22 If it happened because
> > > somebody is having fun-and-games with Miss Sarah Shepherd,
> > > somebody is going to be sorry.
> > >
> > > 1966 J. Porter *Sour Cream* v. 59, I headed the car in the
> direction
> > of
> > > the coast road. We had the usual fun and games with the local drivers.
> > >
> > > 1970 *Globe & Mail (Toronto) *26 Sept. B3/3 Mr. Brown also expects
> > the
> > > fun and games of tax haven subsidiaries to disappear with the new
> > > legislation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Andrew Babson
> > > <ababson@umich.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mike, first as an aside, I tried to post this earlier and it got
> > > rejected,
> > > > so, updating my contact info now. A sign I should get more
> > > > active
> here?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the great question, which is relevant to an approach
> > > > I am developing for analyzing interactional choices of young people.
> On
> > > > another level of analysis, we can think of the wide range of
> ideologies
> > > of
> > > > life course stages, specifically how certain kinds of play and
> > > > fun
> are
> > > > expected of accepted at certain ages; and also how those
> > > > ideologies
> are
> > > > different and similar culturally and historically.
> > > >
> > > > For what I'm working on the first interactional level is more
> relevant
> > > > to class, culture and education and the latter about youth and
> culture
> > > > across the lifespan. The twain do meet in that we often think of
> > > > experimentation, dynamism, flexibility and freedom when we think
> > > > of
> > play
> > > > and also when we think of youth, whether referring to childhood
> > > > or
> > young
> > > > adulthood.
> > > >
> > > > It's not a big step to consider where "fun" might fit in this
> > > conversation.
> > > > As an LSE anthro grad I can't also help but think of the
> > > > relation of
> > this
> > > > conversation to Maurice Bloch's work in Madagascar on the
> constitution
> > of
> > > > the body and how it is expected to change through and after
> > > > life,
> > namely
> > > as
> > > > we get older we get bonier and therefore closer to the ancestors
> > > > who
> > are
> > > > physically only bone. It's interesting to think of how far we
> > > > can or
> > > should
> > > > carry these analogic ideological constructions---the young
> > > > spirit
> like
> > > > cartilage and the old spirit like bone---and how they relate to
> > > > the
> > > above!
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > ---------------
> > > >
> > > > Andrew Babson, Ph.D.
> > > > Lecturer
> > > > Graduate School of Education
> > > > University of Pennsylvania
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Monday, August 17, 2015, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have been led to wonder -- what is the relationship between
> having
> > > fun
> > > > > and playing. How do they differ? Does their relationship, if
> > > > > they
> > are
> > > > not
> > > > > reducible one to the other, change over the course of development?
> > Odd
> > > > how
> > > > > the category of fun is absent from developmental discourse.
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science
> > > > > with
> an
> > > > > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > sent from my phone
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert Lake Ed.D.
> > > Associate Professor
> > > Social Foundations of Education
> > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern
> > > University
> > > Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group P.
> > > O. Box 8144
> > > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> > > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> > > Statesboro, GA 30460
> > > *He not busy being born is busy dying.* Bob Dylan (1964).
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> > ________________________________
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