[Xmca-l] Re: Spinoza on xmca

[Henry G. Shonerd III]

Larry,
It will take me a while to decode what you have said about Merleau-Ponty, but I was thinking about Noise as a metaphor much like an "ether" that inhabits the universe. Humor inhabits an engaged classroom (Marzano). Everything is, to some extent, tongue in cheek. Regarding sensation, what about chronic pain? How do you take that with a light touch? Kabat-Zinn and Mindfulness advocates have taken that on in collaboration with UMass Hospital: hopeless cases, yet the patients are often actually able to find relief not available through Western medicine. So, even with pain, there are culturally-fashioned tools to deal with it. Also, on Merleau-Ponty, check out: Body Memory, Metaphor and Movement, Sabine C. Koch, Thomas Fuchs, Michela Summa
http://books.google.com/books?id=_ShHwxMuU1AC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=dual+simulation+luria&source=bl&ots=zttYqIULQv&sig=wD44qQiaJ9Sx3plLi3EgMqEBLIs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PjwJVPWqDob8yQTTroKABA&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ - v=onepage&q=dual simulation luria&f=false

Henry






On Sep 16, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Henry,
> Yes, goes *way back* and also a *return* to the *beginning*.
> 
> Very *tricky* requiring the awareness of the trickster.
> Science as a project opening to the EXCESS BEYOND the *sensation fallacy*
> that Merleau-Ponty refers to AS *ontological rehabilitation*
> Heidegger and Serres also *playing WITH and WITHIN this SYNERGY
> [Merleau-Ponty's term]
> Merleau-Ponty was very engaged with the facticity of *experience* . However
> he questioned its *reductio* and called us back to EXCESS
> 
> Larry
> Larry
> 
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Henry G. Shonerd III <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> So this goes way back. I googled hermeneutics/hermes and the first line of
>> my first hit was the following from Heidigger: "By a playful thinking that
>> is more persuasive than the rigor of science." In a Marzano attachment you
>> sent me, humor was associated with student engagement. The same thing
>> applies to even this highfalutin' XMCA dialog, don't you think?
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2014, at 1:43 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Bahktin the trickster.
>>> In Greek mythology that was Hermes the messenger who brought messages
>>> between [mediated] the divine and the human realms. Bahktin definitely
>>> overlaps with Hermes [and hermeneutics]
>>> Larry
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>> I'm convinced you are right. Like I say, Bakhtin just keeps popping up.
>>>> The trickster? Rebelais? What is that about?
>>>> Henry
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> One reason I mention him is because of resonances with ideas.
>>>>> But I also mention him as a kind of trickster figure as well as a
>> student
>>>>> of the trickster in writing (his dissertation was on Rabelais).
>>>>> I also mention him as a writer who seems authentically engaged with
>>>>> meaningful/emotive aspects of human existence (e.g., Toward a
>> Philosophy
>>>> of
>>>>> the Act, and Author and Hero in Aesthetic Activity).
>>>>> And finally, I mention Bakhtin because I'm still not convinced that the
>>>>> deep treasures of Bakhtin's work has yet been mined out.
>>>>> -greg
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>>>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Greg,
>>>>>> Thank you for you good words and great question. I knew about Bakhtin,
>>>> but
>>>>>> have been finding him everywhere in the articles and chat of XMCA over
>>>> the
>>>>>> last week. Seriously.
>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2014, at 2:26 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would hope that a certain amount of irreverence would be dear to
>> most
>>>>>>> people on this list!
>>>>>>> But seriously Henry, have you come across Bakhtin's work at all?
>>>>>>> Seems like another that you might want to throw in with the crowd of
>>>>>>> healthy irreverents.
>>>>>>> -greg
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>>>> hshonerd@gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike and David,
>>>>>>>> This is seriously getting to be a club that I, like Groucho,  won't
>>>>>> join,
>>>>>>>> if it takes me as a member. I think all of this seriously evokes
>>>> Andy's
>>>>>>>> contention, in his notes for the upcoming presentation at the ISCAR
>>>>>>>> conference (which XMCA has gotten) that, "Adults can grasp true
>>>>>> concepts,
>>>>>>>> and can change society, and a social theory has to treat adults as
>>>>>> adults,
>>>>>>>> and this is what the projects approach allows us to do. " If "adult"
>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>> the same as "serious", you can see why I have my doubts about
>> joining
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Unserious Scholar Club. On the other hand, if I can have some fun,
>> as
>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the laughing warrior (forget gender stereotypes here, and dare me to
>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>> about Jihad), then that's what I'm talking about. Incidentally, I
>>>> loved
>>>>>>>> Andy's notes. I could so relate it to CG. The emergent character of
>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>> realization he talks about applies very well to discourse, as you
>> can
>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> in the articles by Langacker I have sent out. Discourse IS a project
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> its outcome is typically not entirely clear in the minds of the
>>>>>>>> interactants as they negotiate its waters. XMCA, of which this email
>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> "turn",  is a prototypical "work in progress", as Andy puts it,
>> since
>>>> we
>>>>>>>> clearly don't know where this will all end up. But I hope it can be
>>>> fun
>>>>>>>> along the way.
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 1:51 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Henry-- There goes my pile of books that need to be read before
>>>> bed
>>>>>>>> time!
>>>>>>>>> Spinoza goes up there right next to Dead Souls.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> However, David having already claimed the mantle of unserious
>>>> scholar,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> you having made the same claim, I am afraid that I have to make
>>>>>> precisely
>>>>>>>>> the same claim on the unrefutable grounds that no one pays me any
>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>>>> for what I do so I get to be as unserious as i can seriously be!
>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>>>>>>>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>>>>>> All I can say now is that Spinoza is famously quoted as having
>> said,
>>>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>>>>> more clearly you understand yourself and your emotions, the more
>> you
>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>> a lover of what is." This quote happens to appear in the
>>>> introduction
>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>>>> very popular self help book, Loving What Is, by Byron Katie
>> (2002).
>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> bought the book , obviously, because I thought I needed help. It
>>>> did,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> it also introduced me to Spinoza. And that has been a deeper
>> "help".
>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>>>>> from a personal perspective, I can totally understand how Spinoza
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> periizhvanie would be connected. For all of you ESL teachers out
>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't remember Krashen on the "affective filter" and I have been
>>>>>>>> seeing a
>>>>>>>>>> lot on character and education lately. Oh yes, and how failing is
>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>> to eventual success. Teasing out issues in the education of
>>>>>>>>>> non-mainstreamers, and recognizing how the current system is toxic
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> everyone, I think Spinoza's analysis and the narrative of his life
>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> powerful. Vygotsky hits me the same way. Cantor, the
>> mathematician,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Pierce, the philosopher/logician/semiotician, also constantly come
>>>> up
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> me. They were ridiculed by the received cognoscenti of the time,
>> so
>>>>>>>> much so
>>>>>>>>>> that the suffered mental breakdowns. But they pushed on to develop
>>>>>>>> tools in
>>>>>>>>>> math and semiotics that seem to me are complementary with
>> Vygotsky.
>>>>>>>> Again I
>>>>>>>>>> get to take the role of unserious scholar here, so think of my
>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> gaming on line and don't take the game too seriously.
>>>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:42 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David and Henry--
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> David-- I was intrigued by your comment that Spinoza is a
>>>>>> controversial
>>>>>>>>>>> topic on xmca. I googled Spinoza on the main web page and came up
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> 4K
>>>>>>>>>>> plus hits (!!). My own impression is that few on this list, me
>>>>>>>> included,
>>>>>>>>>>> have engaged in serious study of Spinoza let alone the imprint of
>>>>>>>> Spinoza
>>>>>>>>>>> on Vygotsky.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What is the nature of the controversy? What is at stake? The
>> topic
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> particular interest to me at present because I have been part of
>>>>>>>>>>> discussions with people who are focused on Vygotsky's use of
>>>>>>>> perezhivanie
>>>>>>>>>>> in his later work, where the relation of emotion and cognition
>> is a
>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>>> concern and Spinoza is clearly relevant.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Henry and anyone interested in chasing down what has been written
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> various topics in xmca chatter, take advantage of the nice google
>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>> lchc.ucsd.edu.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (who enmeshed in the sense/meaning distinction in all of its
>>>>>>>> multilingual
>>>>>>>>>>> confusifications at present)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>>>>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>