[Xmca-l] Re: LSV versus ANL

Tue Oct 21 15:40:00 PDT 2014

On 21 October 2014 22:28, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu> wrote:

> Hello Mike,
>
> Thank you for the heads up. I suppose when the search field is out of
> sight it's out of site.  :)
>
> _An idea_: How about a newcomer's page indicating list posting
> preferences? Every list is its own culture and list cultures are tricky to
> gauge sometimes for an outsider. I could write a lot about this as I've
> thought about it a lot, but perhaps I shouldn't do that here or now, anyway.
>
> _Another idea_: Are there "Famous Conversations" that seem to embody the
> most meaning of exchange within the community? Ones that are memorable?
> Perhaps even a "Hall of Fame"? That would be grand to read and to learn. I
> would be willing to help collect that material together alongside an list
> elder, if that is a worthwhile offer.
>
> _Third idea_: there could be trigger search links for keywords, such as
> "unit of analysis," for example. These could be inserted on the vocabulary
> page, which unfortunately I cannot find from the XCMA homepage even though
> I know the page exists somewhere.
>
> _A last, but fluffy idea_: is it possible to post emoji's here? Or is that
> too trendy and unsophisticated? Is anyone groaning just about now...?
>

Personally, I would say it wasn't "fluffy" enough, Annalisa.  Mental
imagery seems to be the preferred currency.

https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=site:lchc.ucsd.edu%2Fmca%2Fmail+%22mental+image%22

If you keep a list of terms, questions etc, then there are a number of ways
these could get used.  However, the challenge with a taxonomy here is that
you won't get unanimity on the big and little pictures, so it helps to
bring your theories with you and to challenge them along the way.

Welcome. :)

Huw

>
> I hope these are useful offerings!
>
> Regards,
>
> Annalisa
>
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:37 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV versus ANL
>
> Hi Annalisa, Juan  Et al
>
> At the home page of Lchc, Lchc at ucsd dot edu, there is a local Google
> search of the site. I just googled Marx unit of analysis and there appear
> to be a lot of useful entries. Often that is a good place to start with
> most of our topics.
>
> For reasons I do not understand, people seem to have a hard time
> remembering that the archives are so easy to access! Maybe we need a banner
> or something as a reminder?  Suggestions for greater user friendliness
> welcome always.
> Mike
> On Tuesday, October 21, 2014, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > Thanks for directing my attention to your paper. I've downloaded it
> > accordingly.
> >
> > I apologize to the list if as a newcomer I am contributing to any
> tiresome
> > redundancy; I am not clear whether there is a way to search the list
> > archives or not.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Annalisa
> > ________________________________________
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <javascript:;> <
> > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <javascript:;>> on behalf of Martin John
> > Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co <javascript:;>>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 9:57 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV versus ANL
> >
> > Hi Juan, Annalisa,
> >
> > The relationship between LSV and Marx is certainly something that we have
> > discussed here on xmca.  My own contribution includes a paper published a
> > few years ago, which I would be happy to send to you:
> >
> > Packer, M. J. (2008). Is Vygotsky relevant? Vygotsky’s Marxist
> psychology.
> > Mind, Culture, and Activity, 15(1), 8-31.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On Oct 21, 2014, at 10:27 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Juan,
> > >
> > > I agree with you that one must understand Marxism to understand
> Vygotsky
> > clearly. Darwin's theory too. My grasp upon these topics is tenuous and I
> > would benefit to know more.
> > >
> > > In my past, it has been difficult to enjoy dispassionate conversations
> > about Marxism in my circles without the distractions of how much I don't
> > know about Marxism, or how much Marx didn't know about capitalism;
> neither
> > position is helpful. Perhaps Marxism is a hot potato still.
> > >
> > > Certainly there are claims that even the Soviets did not understood
> > Marxism properly and that that may be why Vygotsky had such a hard time.
> If
> > Marxism has been so difficult a topic, why should it be different for us
> > who have come late to the table? We do have the power of hindsight, but
> has
> > this helped?
> > >
> > > For any thinker's work, it is highly relevant to understand the
> > contemporary milieu in which that person worked. That is why I look to
> > historical context to unlock Vygotsky's work, not just his texts.
> However,
> > I find a political specter rises from the grave when discussing Marxism
> and
> > kills all prospects before understanding can begin. It is perplexing. I
> > wonder if it is why Vygotsky will remain elusive to us post-moderns.
> > >
> > > I wish I could read the Castorina & Baquero paper, but I cannot read
> > Spanish very well. Would it be asking too much of you to list the
> relevant
> > points made in that paper? I would very much be interested!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Annalisa
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <javascript:;> <
> > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <javascript:;>> on behalf of Juan
> Duarte <
> > juanma.duarte@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 5:39 AM
> > > To: ablunden@mira.net <javascript:;>; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV versus ANL
> > >
> > > I´m sorry for couldn´t answer -neither red all the messages-
> previously.
> > > But what i was reffering was precisely the fact that the "unit of
> > analysis"
> > > in Vigotsky is not understandable without taking Marx and Engels
> method,
> > as
> > > Vygotsky himself writes, for example, in his manuscript The historical
> > > meaning of the chrisis in psychology.
> > > There´s is the need of psychology´s own Das Kapital. And the units of
> > > analisis in LV are built in a dialectical way. So, it´s -for me, at
> > least-
> > > surprising to read so much about the marxist psychologist, and
> preciselly
> > > about method, and very few comments about the fact he was marxist. To
> > > understand the concept of "unit of analysis" is to know, for example,
> the
> > > method of Das Kapital, where Marx takes the value as a cell, unit of
> > > diverse and opposits, change value and use value, wich cannot be
> > separated
> > > without loosing the whole. So is the use of Meaning (unit of though and
> > > language), for example.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, that´s my point. And know that there are many that thake this
> point
> > > of view. Andy, for example.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for the fruitful interchange.
> > > I send you, if anyone is interested, an article about the marxism in LV
> > (in
> > > spanish). Here, in Argentina, Jose Castorina and Ricardo Baquero have
> > > worked through this line, in a very interesting work.
> > > Juan Duarte (Argentina).
> > >
> > > 2014-10-20 21:08 GMT-03:00 Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> > <javascript:;>>:
> > >
> > >> Returning to Leontyev's critique of Vygotsky, ANL claimed that
> > >> perezhivanie, as a manifestation of the whole personality, cannot be
> the
> > >> determinant of personality, because that would be a logical circle.
> But
> > it
> > >> seems to me that ANL failed to understand how Vygotsky’s analysis by
> > units
> > >> allows him to avoid the reductionism into which ANL then ventures. If
> a
> > >> complex process is to be explained by something _else_, then its
> > analysis
> > >> is _reduced_  to the analysis of that something else. Analysis by
> units
> > >> allows Vygotsky to avoid reductionism because the analysis begins
> from a
> > >> concept of the whole complex process represented in a unit, not the
> > whole,
> > >> but a small fragment of the whole, such that the whole can be seen as
> > being
> > >> made up of very many such fragments only. Absent Vygotsky's method of
> > >> analysis by units, and Leontyev's Activity Theory is in danger of
> > >> collapsing to a reductionism that actually explains nothing.
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science with an
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>
>