[Xmca-l] Re: Playing with/at TED

[Lois Holzman]

Don't forget yourself, Artin!
Lois

Lois Holzman
Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
104-106 South Oxford Street
Brooklyn, New York 11217
Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
Fax +1.718.797.3966
lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org 
Social Media
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Blogs
Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
Websites
Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
All Stars Project

 

On Jun 23, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:

> 
> 
> First, this is a quick note to say that I enjoyed Lois' talk, and second,
> I enjoyed reading the responses to Lois' talk very much.  I also wanted to
> add that there are others on this list who have been addressing some of
> the important issues raised both in Lois' talk and in the responses to it.
> For example, issues about play being a collective, dialectical, and
> dialogic activity improvised in human interaction are examined by Tony
> Perone, Carrie Lobman, Keith Sawyer, and others..
> 
> All the best, ag
> 
> 
> On Mon, June 23, 2014 11:58 am, Lois Holzman wrote:
>> Thanks, Tom. (I tried.)
>> And I didn't realize I forgot the link.
>> All best,
>> Lois
>> 
>> Lois Holzman
>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>> Social Media
>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>> Blogs
>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>> Websites
>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>> All Stars Project
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 23, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Tom Richardson
>> <tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thank you, Lois, for finding time for this thoughtful reply to the
>>> threads
>>> around your TED piece -a link to your 'What's developing is below:
>>> http://vimeo.com/98797556
>>> Tom
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 23 June 2014 16:01, Lois Holzman <lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks to all who've watched the video and commented.
>>>> Over the weekend I completed two weeks of PLAYING WITH a "small group"
>>>> of
>>>> psychologists/youth workers/educators from 5 countries who were in NYC
>>>> for
>>>> their final residency period with me and the Institute. I kept up with
>>>> your
>>>> posts but wasn't able to respond until now.
>>>> I find the discussion fascinating in a few ways, which I will try to
>>>> describe through commenting on what's been said/written.
>>>> 
>>>> I greatly appreciated Tom's concern ("We need Play to evolve the next
>>>> tranche of revolutionary strategy and
>>>>> tactics, but Play alone will never arrive at the necessity for
>>>>> revolutionary overthrow of capitalism") and further comment and
>>>> subsequent expansion on this ("While I did not wish to attack or offend
>>>> deliberately, I feel that the
>>>> limitations of work within individual/small group relationships, no
>>>> matter
>>>> how creative, redemptive and transformative, cannot have that same
>>>> effect
>>>> upon the 500year-developed /developing reality which is modern
>>>> bourgeois
>>>> society. It is that sense of limitation which I attempted,
>>>>> straightforwardly to convey").
>>>> 
>>>>> Tom, I in no way felt attacked or offended.
>>>> 
>>>>> I found Shirley and Helen's and Carol's versions of what I was doing
>>>>> in
>>>> the talk and what the activities I presented might be "about" very
>>>> helpful
>>>> and appreciated learning what they saw.  I was indeed trying to present
>>>> something new to the audience, something that gave them the feeling
>>>> that
>>>> there was more "behind it" and that something was pretty unorthodox.
>>>> 
>>>>> I suppose the key thing I can say in response is that I was speaking
>>>> about play in a very particular way, as revolutionary. I was really
>>>> pleased
>>>> that the audience for the live presentation picked up on that and was
>>>> excited by this new way of seeing. What I think revolutionary play is
>>>> (in
>>>> my talk I repeated what I mean by that several times—taking what there
>>>> is
>>>> and making something new, doing what we do not know how to do, relating
>>>> as
>>>> who we are/other than who we are at the same time) is a
>>>> cultural-historical
>>>> activity that creates development, and that all of us human beings need
>>>> to
>>>> develop if we are to have a shot at overthrowing capitalism. (For
>>>> "theory"
>>>> the most concise expansion of this might be All Power to the
>>>> Developing.The
>>>> position put forth in that article has generated lively dialogue, as it
>>>> is
>>>> not the most popular among Marxists.)
>>>> 
>>>>> As I read some of the comments on my talk, it seems to me that how I
>>>> understand play as revolutionary was not taken into account fully. By
>>>> that
>>>> I mean it seems like one's own understanding of play was substituted
>>>> unaware. Perhaps this has something to do with Hue seeing play as
>>>> "overdone" as well as David's commenting:
>>>>> "One of the problems of Lois's talk is that it doesn't give us a very
>>>> clear
>>>> view of what play is not. But I would say that street kids talking to
>>>> policemen about their fear of being gunned down in the street is a
>>>> pretty
>>>> good place to start. Lois herself recognizes in her talk that the
>>>> conversations are not part of
>>>> the play. But then we need to look at when and where the activity
>>>> stopped
>>>> being play, and above all why. Otherwise we rob "play" of all of its
>>>> content."
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry, David, if I was less than clear here. For me, the conversation
>>>> was
>>>> part of the play. The activity never stopped being play, as I
>>>> understand
>>>> it. The cops and kids were playing, in my sense of revolutionary play,
>>>> as
>>>> they were creating a conversation they had never had and perhaps could
>>>> not
>>>> were they not playing/performing...they were doing what was beyond them
>>>> and
>>>> creating something new together. I imagine you and others may not see
>>>> it
>>>> that way, but that's what I see.
>>>> 
>>>> David's comments also highlight for me an aspect of perhaps different
>>>> ways
>>>> of approaching what it means to engage in the activity of
>>>> understanding. As
>>>> I read you, you need me to say what play is not and you also need me to
>>>> pinpoint the beginnings and endings of something identified as play.
>>>> It's
>>>> that "is" that for me is the problematic term—it reads to me as
>>>> pictorial
>>>> and essentializing in reference to meaning. Apologies if I have
>>>> misunderstood you. And while I don't mind playing being simultaneously
>>>> the
>>>> "leading activity" and the constant activity, I'm inspired by Vygotsky,
>>>> not
>>>> overdetermined by him.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm very sensitive to how we speak/write to each other, however,
>>>> especially when difference of opinion gets in the way or replaces
>>>> curiosity
>>>> to learn more about how come someone thinks/believes what they
>>>> apparently
>>>> do. And so I wish that we would be asking more questions of each
>>>> other...
>>>> and perhaps saying things in less absolutist and knowing terms.
>>>> 
>>>> David (again) wrote:
>>>> PS: Obviously, the teacher who claimed that their generation in China
>>>> (my
>>>> wife's generation) did not play after the age of two was just playing
>>>> around with poor Lois. But that's no reason to play along...
>>>> 
>>>> I "obviously" (and here it makes sense to use that word) cannot know
>>>> your
>>>> intention in writing what and how you wrote the above, as we cannot
>>>> know
>>>> each other's intentions. So I'll jump off from what you say and maybe
>>>> help
>>>> you see what I was trying to convey—75 teachers (not 1) told us in
>>>> different ways/phrases that they hadn't played since they were very
>>>> little
>>>> children. They weren't making any claims, neither for themselves as
>>>> individuals and certainly not for their generation. They were talking
>>>> with
>>>> us and sharing their experiences. I assume your wife has done the same
>>>> with
>>>> you, and that would be interesting to learn about.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm off tonight to work in Frankfurt for the week, but if there is
>>>> further
>>>> conversation I will respond quickly.
>>>> 
>>>> If any of you are interested in pursuing the topic of play and
>>>> performance
>>>> in our current context of capitalism's crisis, from my community's
>>>> perspective, you can view an event, What Developing in a World in
>>>> Crisis
>>>> which begins with 9 people from 8 countries speaking to how they see
>>>> the
>>>> development challenges in their countries, followed by a conversation
>>>> between me and a colleague, and then the audience.
>>>> 
>>>> Again, thanks for including me, TED, play in your discussions,
>>>> Lois
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Lois Holzman
>>>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
>>>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>>>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>>>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>>>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>>>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>>>> Social Media
>>>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>>>> Blogs
>>>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>>>> Websites
>>>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>>>> All Stars Project
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 22, 2014, at 1:31 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I wonder what Lois thinks about all of this discussion that Peter
>>>> started?
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Friday, June 20, 2014, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I agree completely with Tom's remarks. I remember that almost every
>>>> summer
>>>>> in Chicago between five and ten black children in the city would be
>>>>> murdered by police for playing with toy guns. Consider this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civilians-since-911/172029/
>>>>> 
>>>>> To link this to the previous thread--I don't think that the article
>>>>> "What
>>>>> Theory is Not" has a workable definition of theory, and for that
>>>>> reason I
>>>>> found it little more than a list of complaints. But part of the
>>>> dialectical
>>>>> method is defining what things are by looking at what things are
>>>>> not: transgressing that boundary is precisely what we mean when we say
>>>> that
>>>>> something is in the process of becoming what it is not.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the problems of Lois's talk is that it doesn't give us a very
>>>> clear
>>>>> view of what play is not. But I would say that street kids talking to
>>>>> policemen about their fear of being gunned down in the street is a
>>>>> pretty
>>>>> good place to start.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lois herself recognizes in her talk that the conversations are not
>>>>> part
>>>> of
>>>>> the play. But then we need to look at when and where the activity
>>>>> stopped
>>>>> being play, and above all why. Otherwise we rob "play" of all of its
>>>>> content.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the same thing is true when we say that children play
>>>>> constantly,
>>>>> from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed (and
>>>>> Vygotsky,
>>>> of
>>>>> course, says the opposite--play is a "leading" activity but for that
>>>>> very
>>>>> reason we cannot say it is the main activity).
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>>>> 
>>>>> PS: Obviously, the teacher who claimed that their generation in China
>>>>> (my
>>>>> wife's generation) did not play after the age of two was just playing
>>>>> around with poor Lois. But that's no reason to play along...
>>>>> 
>>>>> dk
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 20 June 2014 06:03, Tom Richardson <tom.richardson3@googlemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> A fascinating and moving 14+minutes of Lois ....only how I wish that
>>>>>> I
>>>> did
>>>>>> not subscribe to a class analysis which means that the last example
>>>>>> of
>>>> the
>>>>>> 'kids of colour' and the NYPD is called into deep question - will the
>>>>>> lethal divides of capitalism's "special bodies of armed men" from
>>>>>> working-class citizens, (and of course it extends to imperialism's
>>>>>> destruction of whole countries), be 'overcome' by Play. Lois'
>>>> commitment
>>>>>> and passionate intelligence almost lets me believe it might, but I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> that I'm fooling myself.
>>>>>> We need Play to evolve the next tranche of revolutionary strategy and
>>>>>> tactics, but Play alone will never arrive at the necessity for
>>>>>> revolutionary overthrow of capitalism, only, from Lois' examples,
>>>>>> ultimately futile attempts at transcending class conflict,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Tom Richardson
>>>>>> Middlesbrough
>>>>>> UK
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 19 June 2014 20:57, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well Lois
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That was splendid, awesome! All you serious XMCAers please watch.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carol
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 19 June 2014 13:48, Lois Holzman <lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Here's the link, Carol.
>>>>>>>> http://tedxnavesink.com/project/lois-holzman/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Lois Holzman
>>>>>>>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
>>>>>>>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>>>>>>>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>>>>>>>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>>>>>>>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>>>>>>>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>>>>>>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>>>>>>>> Social Media
>>>>>>>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>>>>>>>> Blogs
>>>>>>>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>>>>>>>> Websites
>>>>>>>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>>>>>>>> All Stars Project
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 2014, at 3:02 AM, Carol Macdonald <
>>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Please could you send the link again?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Carol
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 19 June 2014 01:03, Lois Holzman <
>>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>> Peter kindly posted a link to a talk I gave last month at a TEDx
>>>>>>>>>> event--TEDxNavesink Play.
>>>>>>>>>> Aside from the prep being among the hardest things I've ever
>>>> done
>>>>>>>> (staying
>>>>>>>>>> within their rules and structure, not being academic but saying
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> new for people to think about, and more), it was a delight to be
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>> who appreciate and value play--many of whom are affording
>>>> people in
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> communities with the opportunity to play in all kinds of ways.
>>>> It
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> really growthful for me and my team. I was really pleased to
>>>>>> reconnect
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> Peter Gray after many years and to meet other good people. The
>>>>>> one-day
>>>>>>>>>> event was organized are 4 P's--possibility, pleasure, progress
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> paradox.
>>>>>>>>>> I invite you all to include these talks within your conversation
>>>>>>>> here--even
>>>>>>>>>> though they're not theoretical. Maybe it's a new kind of play
>>>> for
>>>>>>> many.
>>>>>>>>>> Lois
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Lois Holzman
>>>>>>>>>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term
>>>> Psychotherapy
>>>>>>>>>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>>>>>>>>>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>>>>>>>>>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>>>>>>>>>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>>>>>>>>>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>>>>>>>>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>>>>>>>>>> Social Media
>>>>>>>>>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs
>>>>>>>>>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>>>>>>>>>> Websites
>>>>>>>>>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>>>>>>>>>> All Stars Project
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist
>>>>>>>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist
>>>>>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Artin Goncu, Ph.D
> Co-editor, Mind, Culture, and Activity:An International Journal
> Professor Emeritus,
> University of Illinois at Chicago
> College of Education M/C 147
> 1040 W. Harrison St.
> Chicago, IL 60607
> 
>