From ablunden@mira.net Fri Nov 1 02:07:13 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 20:07:13 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: <52736F41.6070903@mira.net> Paul (one of the authors, who has joined the xmca to paricipate in this discussion), I want to take out just one point in your paper. You point out that the workplace relations of industrial and post-industrial capitalism are reproduced in the classrooms of those societies. This is unquestionably true. I'll go further. In a study of forms of radical organisation from 1830 to the present, I observed that the forms of organisation with which the oppressed groups and classes have directly and consciously challenged capital have also borrowed their forms from the contemporary capitalist workplaces. And even the weapons themselves actually, as well. However, this general law that the forms of oppression and exploitation, and even the oppositional forms of activity and modes of thinking spring from the same social conditions as the relations of production, does not lead to the conclusion that *therefore* they "lack the potential for liberation" (p. 362). On the contrary actually. In particular, I would challenge the contention that dialogical and/or constructivist forms of teaching/learning necessarily reproduce the relations of domination of postindustrial societies. I agree that your observations do make it transparent how such methods, expressive as they are of the Zeitgeist, may prove ineffective and efforts to transcend the dominant relations may easily be subverted. But that is not saying very much. And what is the alternative? I suspect any real alternative would prove only to be an insight into emergent forms of capital accumulation (See Luc Boltanski's "New Spirit of Capitalism" for example). Troy Richardson's tirade against CHAT (discussed on xmca in July last year) makes a similar point about dialogical methods of teaching and learning. I find it more plausible that - attractive as dialogical teaching and learning may be to us - it may be alien to indigenous and subaltern cultures (as well as industrial capitalism), and consequently cross-cultural problems may arise in unwitting application of these methods across cultural differences. But this is not your claim, is it? You are saying, I think, that dialogical teaching and learning actually contributes to the *construction* of these inequalities, and precisely because it owes it origins to the most advanced methods of thinking of our postindustrial capitalist society. Do you have an alternative? Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Fri Nov 1 06:07:24 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 09:07:24 -0400 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: Andy, Your assessment of the article is correct. ?However, I see no alternative within the dialectic, a la the negative dialectic of the frankfurt school. ?I see only three alternatives, which are outside the dialectical process...islamic fundamentalism, the limits to growth metaphysics of the earth itself, and haitian vodou? (See my work, "liberal bourgeois protestanism"...I do not see any solutions that can emerge out of any dialogue with capital for it inherently implies maintaining the status quo and giving room to capitalist organization. ?We must throw out the baby with the bath water if we are to resolve the problems with capitalism. ..as an example, jean jacques dessalines in his debate with toussaint louverture regarding the role of mulattoes in the haitian revolution suggested that the mulatto elites must also be killed, along with whites...he felt that in their identification with their white fathers, ?the mulatto elites would reproduce slavery and white supremacy on the island. ?Toussaint, on the contrary felt that their technical skills would be needed to rebuild the island following the revolution. ?Following the capture of toussaint. ..dessalines adopted toussaint's position, but was assassinated by the mulatto alexander petion, who was sent by napoleon to recapture the island for France. ?Whereas, dessalines had refused to pay reparations to France, the two mulatto generals of the revolution, ?Petion and Boyer agreed to, and sought to reproduce the plantation system and franco relations on the island. ?They had no alternative logic...metaphorically speaking, the slave sought to be like the master. ?That is what is happening in black communities around the globe.... Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Andy Blunden Date: 11/01/2013 5:07 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Black Underachievement, etc. Paul (one of the authors, who has joined the xmca to paricipate in this discussion), I want to take out just one point in your paper. You point out that the workplace relations of industrial and post-industrial capitalism are reproduced in the classrooms of those societies. This is unquestionably true. I'll go further. In a study of forms of radical organisation from 1830 to the present, I observed that the forms of organisation with which the oppressed groups and classes have directly and consciously challenged capital have also borrowed their forms from the contemporary capitalist workplaces. And even the weapons themselves actually, as well. However, this general law that the forms of oppression and exploitation, and even the oppositional forms of activity and modes of thinking spring from the same social conditions as the relations of production, does not lead to the conclusion that *therefore* they "lack the potential for liberation" (p. 362). On the contrary actually. In particular, I would challenge the contention that dialogical and/or constructivist forms of teaching/learning necessarily reproduce the relations of domination of postindustrial societies. I agree that your observations do make it transparent how such methods, expressive as they are of the Zeitgeist, may prove ineffective and efforts to transcend the dominant relations may easily be subverted. But that is not saying very much. And what is the alternative? I suspect any real alternative would prove only to be an insight into emergent forms of capital accumulation (See Luc Boltanski's "New Spirit of Capitalism" for example). Troy Richardson's tirade against CHAT (discussed on xmca in July last year) makes a similar point about dialogical methods of teaching and learning. I find it more plausible that - attractive as dialogical teaching and learning may be to us - it may be alien to indigenous and subaltern cultures (as well as industrial capitalism), and consequently cross-cultural problems may arise in unwitting application of these methods across cultural differences. But this is not your claim, is it? You are saying, I think, that dialogical teaching and learning actually contributes to the *construction* of these inequalities, and precisely because it owes it origins to the most advanced methods of thinking of our postindustrial capitalist society. Do you have an alternative? Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ From lemke.jay@gmail.com Sun Nov 3 20:48:09 2013 From: lemke.jay@gmail.com (Jay Lemke) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 20:48:09 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Job at NYU in Digital Media Research Message-ID: FYI. Assistant Professor, Digital Media Design, Tenure-Track, New York University The Educational Communication and Technology (ECT) programs in the Steinhardt School of Culture, Education, and Human Development at New York University invite applications and nominations for a tenure-track position at the Assistant Professor level in digital media design. The ECT programs--the Ph.D. in Educational Communication and Technology (ECT), the M.A. and Advanced Certificate in *Digital Media Design for Learning (DMDL)*, and *M.S. in Games for Learning (G4L)*--offer graduate instruction in the design, development, implementation, and evaluation of a broad range of digital media-based instruction for learning, including simulation and games for learning. The programs aspire to contribute to the ideals of social equity and an informed and participatory citizenry through design and scholarship. The position begins onSeptember 1, 2014. Responsibilities: In addition to service at the program, college, and university levels, responsibilities will include: (1) development and maintenance of an ongoing program of scholarly research related to the design and use of digital media for learning and/or teaching in the context of our new Media and Games Network (MAGNET) facility; (2) designing and teaching courses primarily at the graduate level; (3) advisement and supervision of undergraduates and of graduate student master?s theses and doctoral dissertations; and, (4) writing research grant proposals for appropriate federal agencies, foundations, and private donors. Qualifications: An earned doctorate is required in Learning Sciences, Educational Psychology, Cognitive Science, Learning and Digital Media, Educational Technology, or a related field. Candidates should have a strong program of theory-based research on the design and use of digital media for learning and/or assessment that advances the field, a record of published peer-reviewed research, and demonstrated potential for developing externally-funded research grants. Research specializations that include new and emerging learning-related areas are of particular interest. The ECT programs are interested in both theoretical and applied research on learning within traditional and nontraditional settings and in learning outcomes. NYU's dynamic Global Network University includes NYU Abu Dhabi, NYU Shanghai, and international programs and academic centers around the world. NYU Steinhardt faculty may be afforded the opportunity for variable term work at these global study and research sites. *NYU is committed to building a culturally diverse educational environment and strongly encourages applications from historically underrepresented groups.* *Applications* Applicants will be required to upload (1) a letter of application, (2) curriculum vitae, (3) selected research manuscripts or journal articles, and (4) the names/contact information for three individuals from whom letters of recommendation can be requested at www.nyuopsearch.com/applicants/Central?quickFind=51870 Nominations can be sent to: alt.steinhardt@nyu.edu The ECT Search Committee will begin reviewing applications on Dec 1, 2013. Applications received after this date will be considered until the position is filled. Further Information: Inquiries and requests for further information should be directed to Jan L. Plass, Chair of the ECT Search Committee Email: jan.plass@nyu.edu *New York University is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer.* __________ ________________________________________________________________________ Jan L. Plass, Paulette Goddard Professor of Digital Media and Learning Sciences Director, Programs in Designing Games for Learning (MS) and Digital Media Design for Learning (MA) Director, CREATE Consortium for Research and Evaluation of Advanced Technologies in Education Co-Director, G4LI Institute for Games for Learning MAGNET ? 2 Metrotech Center, 8th floor, Brooklyn, NY 11201 Steinhardt School of Culture, Education, and Human Development New York University Please do not use my old email address jaylemke@umich.edu. That account is now closed. Jay Lemke LCHC/Department of Communication University of California - San Diego www.jaylemke.com From lchcmike@gmail.com Mon Nov 4 11:32:34 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:32:34 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Spencer Foundation job opening: Senior Program Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Spencer Foundation Date: Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM Subject: Spencer Foundation job opening: Senior Program Officer To: mcole@ucsd.edu If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. Share this: *SENIOR PROGRAM OFFICER* *The Spencer Foundation* seeks to add a creative and forward-looking colleague to its program team. The Foundation?s purpose is to foster the development of new knowledge about education with the aim of educational improvement. We seek an individual who can add to our capacity to act strategically in fashioning programs of inquiry in education as well as in promoting more effective communication and networking among those who develop and use knowledge in education. The successful candidate must be capable of identifying strategic opportunities; recruiting researchers and policy analysts to conduct the work; organizing the review and evaluation of various grant proposals and applications; reviewing and responding to grant reports and related correspondence; facilitating review committee meetings and managing an extensive external peer review process. Duties also include administrative work related to the management of Foundation programs and program staff, the collection and analysis of data pertaining to program operations, and the preparation of reports for the Foundation?s executive team and for its Board. In addition, program staff are entitled and encouraged to participate in the Foundation?s research time program that permits them to devote up to 20% of the workweek to their own research. The Senior Program Officer position entails a four-year contract that is eligible for a one-time renewal. Qualifications - A PhD, EdD or other comparable graduate/professional degree with substantial concentration in education or a related social science field is preferred. - Experience in a leadership role requiring collaboration within an organization, as well as a demonstrated ability to work with efficiency and diplomacy. - Evidence of continued engagement with scholarly work in her/his field. - Evidence of strong research and analytic skills. - Demonstrated ability to manage multiple and competing demands and to establish priorities and meet deadlines. - Demonstrated excellence in written and oral communication skills. Salary is dependent upon experience. The Spencer Foundation has excellent benefits, including TIAA/CREF. The Foundation is an equal opportunity employer. Send a letter of interest and current resume by *November 30, 2013* to: Director of Personnel The Spencer Foundation 625 N. Michigan Avenue, Suite 1600 Chicago, IL 60611 625 N. Michigan Avenue Suite 1600 | Chicago, IL 60611 US This email was sent to *mcole@ucsd.edu *. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. *manage*your preferences | *opt out*using *TrueRemove*?. Got this as a forward? *Sign up*to receive our future emails. [image: powered by emma] From lchcmike@gmail.com Mon Nov 4 11:32:13 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:32:13 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Spencer Foundation job opening: Associate Program Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Spencer Foundation Date: Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:56 AM Subject: Spencer Foundation job opening: Associate Program Officer To: mcole@ucsd.edu If you're having trouble viewing this email, you may see it online. Share this: *ASSOCIATE PROGRAM OFFICER* *The Spencer Foundation* seeks to hire an *Associate Program Officer* to work with Foundation staff to implement goals in all aspects of its programmatic work. The Foundation?s purpose is to foster the development of new knowledge about education with the aim of educational improvement. The successful candidate must be capable of working collaboratively with Program staff on developing and sustaining its research, fellowship and communications programs. Responsibilities include writing analytic reviews to support the development of research programs; these reviews may be based on literature reviews, conversations with leading researchers, conference proceedings, and findings from recent grantmaking. Other responsibilities include planning and organizing conferences with grantees and scholars; representing the Foundation at meetings and conferences and preparing reports and presentations for a variety of purposes and audiences. Duties also include working with Foundation staff, external committees and reviewers on the process and management of submitted proposals and grants, including reviewing grant proposals and facilitating external reviews; providing comments on proposals; preparing and presenting proposal recommendations; writing summaries of progress reports from grants and coordinating, monitoring and evaluating activities and outcomes for a portfolio of programmatic work. In addition, program staff are entitled and encouraged to participate in the Foundation?s research time program that permits them to devote up to 20% of the workweek to their own research. The Associate Program Officer will report to designated members of the Program staff. The appointment entails a three-year non-renewable contract. An additional one-year non-renewable term may be considered. *Qualifications:* - A PhD, EdD or other comparable graduate/professional degree with substantial concentration in education or a related social science field is preferred. - Evidence of continued engagement with scholarly work in her/his field. - Evidence of strong research and analytic skills. - Demonstrated ability to manage multiple and competing demands and to establish priorities and meet deadlines. - Demonstrated excellence in written and oral communication skills. - Experience in a role requiring collaboration within an organization, as well as a demonstrated ability to work with efficiency and diplomacy. Salary commensurate with experience. The Foundation is an equal opportunity employer. Mail a letter of interest and current resume by *November 30, 2013* to: Director of Personnel The Spencer Foundation 625 N. Michigan Avenue, Suite 1600 Chicago, IL 60611 625 N. Michigan Avenue Suite 1600 | Chicago, IL 60611 US This email was sent to *mcole@ucsd.edu *. To ensure that you continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book or safe list. *manage*your preferences | *opt out*using *TrueRemove*?. Got this as a forward? *Sign up*to receive our future emails. [image: powered by emma] From ablunden@mira.net Mon Nov 4 14:24:05 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 09:24:05 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52781E85.6040400@mira.net> Paul, I was hoping that others on the list may have intervened by now. I guess people are still reading your very dense prose! :) But let me respond. My investigations of radical activity effectively turns the "negative dialectic," as you call it, back on you. The style of critique which claims to show that "there is no outside" to the dominant ideology of a form of society, late capitalist society in particular, first emerged with Althusser, and became in recent decades, with post-structuralism, the most powerful mode of argumentation and social philosophy. In other words, what you call the "negative dialectic" is absolutely a product of the deology of late capitalism. And it seems to me it is transparently an "ideological state apparatus," if I may use the term in this way, as it functions to defend the relations of exploitation against attack. It also reflects a pervading illusion of life in contemporary capitalism, viz., that there is no outside, that the great processes of global markets and capital flow, transnational corporations and so on, leave no opening for counter-activity, beyond (perhaps) futile protests like the Occupy movement (which after all only lauds extreme libertarianism). The challenge for social philosophers is to develop a theory of how individual may exercise genuine agency in relation to this situation. No easy matter, granted. I think CHAT offers a crucial element of such a philosophical standpoint, because it brings to its theory of the development of the psyche an undersanding of how the artefacts and activities of the wider cultural are appropriated and reconstituted in action. Furthermore, many educational researchers in the CHAT tradition, and in the broader sociocultural domain, strive to understand how relations of domination can be (and frequently are) reproduced in the classroom, unwittingly, as teachers strive to provide an education whilst treating the students as moral quals. Are religious fundamentalism and catastrophe really the only alternatives? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > Your assessment of the article is correct. However, I see no > alternative within the dialectic, a la the negative dialectic of the > frankfurt school. I see only three alternatives, which are outside > the dialectical process...islamic fundamentalism, the limits to growth > metaphysics of the earth itself, and haitian vodou? (See my work, > "liberal bourgeois protestanism"...I do not see any solutions that can > emerge out of any dialogue with capital for it inherently implies > maintaining the status quo and giving room to capitalist organization. > We must throw out the baby with the bath water if we are to resolve > the problems with capitalism. ..as an example, jean jacques dessalines > in his debate with toussaint louverture regarding the role of > mulattoes in the haitian revolution suggested that the mulatto elites > must also be killed, along with whites...he felt that in their > identification with their white fathers, the mulatto elites would > reproduce slavery and white supremacy on the island. Toussaint, on > the contrary felt that their technical skills would be needed to > rebuild the island following the revolution. Following the capture of > toussaint. ..dessalines adopted toussaint's position, but was > assassinated by the mulatto alexander petion, who was sent by napoleon > to recapture the island for France. Whereas, dessalines had refused > to pay reparations to France, the two mulatto generals of the > revolution, Petion and Boyer agreed to, and sought to reproduce the > plantation system and franco relations on the island. They had no > alternative logic...metaphorically speaking, the slave sought to be > like the master. That is what is happening in black communities > around the globe.... > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/01/2013 5:07 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Black Underachievement, etc. > > > Paul (one of the authors, who has joined the xmca to paricipate in this > discussion), I want to take out just one point in your paper. > You point out that the workplace relations of industrial and > post-industrial capitalism are reproduced in the classrooms of those > societies. This is unquestionably true. I'll go further. In a study of > forms of radical organisation from 1830 to the present, I observed that > the forms of organisation with which the oppressed groups and classes > have directly and consciously challenged capital have also borrowed > their forms from the contemporary capitalist workplaces. And even the > weapons themselves actually, as well. > > However, this general law that the forms of oppression and exploitation, > and even the oppositional forms of activity and modes of thinking spring > from the same social conditions as the relations of production, does not > lead to the conclusion that *therefore* they "lack the potential for > liberation" (p. 362). On the contrary actually. > > In particular, I would challenge the contention that dialogical and/or > constructivist forms of teaching/learning necessarily reproduce the > relations of domination of postindustrial societies. I agree that your > observations do make it transparent how such methods, expressive as they > are of the Zeitgeist, may prove ineffective and efforts to transcend the > dominant relations may easily be subverted. But that is not saying very > much. > > And what is the alternative? I suspect any real alternative would prove > only to be an insight into emergent forms of capital accumulation (See > Luc Boltanski's "New Spirit of Capitalism" for example). > > Troy Richardson's tirade against CHAT (discussed on xmca in July last > year) makes a similar point about dialogical methods of teaching and > learning. I find it more plausible that - attractive as dialogical > teaching and learning may be to us - it may be alien to indigenous and > subaltern cultures (as well as industrial capitalism), and consequently > cross-cultural problems may arise in unwitting application of these > methods across cultural differences. But this is not your claim, is it? > You are saying, I think, that dialogical teaching and learning actually > contributes to the *construction* of these inequalities, and precisely > because it owes it origins to the most advanced methods of thinking of > our postindustrial capitalist society. > > Do you have an alternative? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > From lchcmike@gmail.com Mon Nov 4 14:37:02 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 14:37:02 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [Air-L] Tenure Track openings at Higher School of Economics, Russia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brrrrrrrrrrrr, but work! :-) Mike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *???????? ????? ???????* Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 Subject: [Air-L] Tenure Track openings at Higher School of Economics, Russia To: "air-l@listserv.aoir.org" Dear colleagues, Higher School of Economics, Russia, is recruiting at the international market at the level of assistant professor for its four campuses in Moscow, St.Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod and Perm http://cas.hse.ru/academic_vacancies . The salary is highly competitive. The positions are open in 15 disciplines, including media and communications, BUT I would like to draw your attention that a position in sociology in St.Petersburg MAY INCLUDE COLLABORATION WITH INTERNET STUDIES LAB www.linis.hse.ru< http://www.linis.hse.ru> that provides data, analytical software, a powerful server and ? most important ? a vigorous interdisciplinary team, group discussions, research assistants and all advantages of the collective work. Each assoc. professor will be demanded to teach at the faculty he/she is applying to AND carry out extensive research that will lead to peer-reviewed publications, which means that he or she may choose to embed his or her research in one of the university?s labs. Russian is not needed. Would you be interested in collaboration with the Internet studies lab, send informal enquiries to me at olessia.koltsova@gmail.com or ekoltsova@hse.ru Best wishes, Olessia Koltsova Head, Laboratory for Internet Studies Higher School of Economics Room 322, 47 Rimskogo-Korsakova st., 190008, St.Petersburg,Russia +7 (812) 677-9452 www.linis.hse.ru _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Mon Nov 4 15:00:28 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 18:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: <4t40wi6c08yecp34352cp5rp.1383605441092@email.android.com> Andy, Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser. ?I cannot think of one historical case to prove the contrary. ?It is necessary for one historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. ?Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level executives? ?I do not think say. ?Just the same, the argument you raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which the colonized accepts and reproduces. ?This is not liberating, nor does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Andy Blunden Date: 11/04/2013 5:24 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Paul, I was hoping that others on the list may have intervened by now. I guess people are still reading your very dense prose! :) But let me respond. My investigations of radical activity effectively turns the "negative dialectic," as you call it, back on you. The style of critique which claims to show that "there is no outside" to the dominant ideology of a form of society, late capitalist society in particular, first emerged with Althusser, and became in recent decades, with post-structuralism, the most powerful mode of argumentation and social philosophy. In other words, what you call the "negative dialectic" is absolutely a product of the deology of late capitalism. And it seems to me it is transparently an "ideological state apparatus," if I may use the term in this way, as it functions to defend the relations of exploitation against attack. It also reflects a pervading illusion of life in contemporary capitalism, viz., that there is no outside, that the great processes of global markets and capital flow, transnational corporations and so on, leave no opening for counter-activity, beyond (perhaps) futile protests like the Occupy movement (which after all only lauds extreme libertarianism). The challenge for social philosophers is to develop a theory of how individual may exercise genuine agency in relation to this situation. No easy matter, granted. I think CHAT offers a crucial element of such a philosophical standpoint, because it brings to its theory of the development of the psyche an undersanding of how the artefacts and activities of the wider cultural are appropriated and reconstituted in action. Furthermore, many educational researchers in the CHAT tradition, and in the broader sociocultural domain, strive to understand how relations of domination can be (and frequently are) reproduced in the classroom, unwittingly, as teachers strive to provide an education whilst treating the students as moral quals. Are religious fundamentalism and catastrophe really the only alternatives? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > Your assessment of the article is correct.? However, I see no > alternative within the dialectic, a la the negative dialectic of the > frankfurt school.? I see only three alternatives, which are outside > the dialectical process...islamic fundamentalism, the limits to growth > metaphysics of the earth itself, and haitian vodou? (See my work, > "liberal bourgeois protestanism"...I do not see any solutions that can > emerge out of any dialogue with capital for it inherently implies > maintaining the status quo and giving room to capitalist organization. >? We must throw out the baby with the bath water if we are to resolve > the problems with capitalism. ..as an example, jean jacques dessalines > in his debate with toussaint louverture regarding the role of > mulattoes in the haitian revolution suggested that the mulatto elites > must also be killed, along with whites...he felt that in their > identification with their white fathers,? the mulatto elites would > reproduce slavery and white supremacy on the island.? Toussaint, on > the contrary felt that their technical skills would be needed to > rebuild the island following the revolution.? Following the capture of > toussaint. ..dessalines adopted toussaint's position, but was > assassinated by the mulatto alexander petion, who was sent by napoleon > to recapture the island for France.? Whereas, dessalines had refused > to pay reparations to France, the two mulatto generals of the > revolution,? Petion and Boyer agreed to, and sought to reproduce the > plantation system and franco relations on the island.? They had no > alternative logic...metaphorically speaking, the slave sought to be > like the master.? That is what is happening in black communities > around the globe.... > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/01/2013 5:07 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Black Underachievement, etc. > > > Paul (one of the authors, who has joined the xmca to paricipate in this > discussion), I want to take out just one point in your paper. > You point out that the workplace relations of industrial and > post-industrial capitalism are reproduced in the classrooms of those > societies. This is unquestionably true. I'll go further. In a study of > forms of radical organisation from 1830 to the present, I observed that > the forms of organisation with which the oppressed groups and classes > have directly and consciously challenged capital have also borrowed > their forms from the contemporary capitalist workplaces. And even the > weapons themselves actually, as well. > > However, this general law that the forms of oppression and exploitation, > and even the oppositional forms of activity and modes of thinking spring > from the same social conditions as the relations of production, does not > lead to the conclusion that *therefore* they "lack the potential for > liberation" (p. 362). On the contrary actually. > > In particular, I would challenge the contention that dialogical and/or > constructivist forms of teaching/learning necessarily reproduce the > relations of domination of postindustrial societies. I agree that your > observations do make it transparent how such methods, expressive as they > are of the Zeitgeist, may prove ineffective and efforts to transcend the > dominant relations may easily be subverted. But that is not saying very > much. > > And what is the alternative? I suspect any real alternative would prove > only to be an insight into emergent forms of capital accumulation (See > Luc Boltanski's "New Spirit of Capitalism" for example). > > Troy Richardson's tirade against CHAT (discussed on xmca in July last > year) makes a similar point about dialogical methods of teaching and > learning. I find it more plausible that - attractive as dialogical > teaching and learning may be to us - it may be alien to indigenous and > subaltern cultures (as well as industrial capitalism), and consequently > cross-cultural problems may arise in unwitting application of these > methods across cultural differences. But this is not your claim, is it? > You are saying, I think, that dialogical teaching and learning actually > contributes to the *construction* of these inequalities, and precisely > because it owes it origins to the most advanced methods of thinking of > our postindustrial capitalist society. > > Do you have an alternative? > > Andy > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > From ablunden@mira.net Mon Nov 4 16:25:38 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 11:25:38 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: <4t40wi6c08yecp34352cp5rp.1383605441092@email.android.com> References: <4t40wi6c08yecp34352cp5rp.1383605441092@email.android.com> Message-ID: <52783B02.3030207@mira.net> I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it takes as its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, an ideology is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. But, while it is true that history is littered with disasters, and the critical periods of social change are indeed marked by catastrophe, these crtitical phases are prepared and constituted by phases of lytical change and are inseparable from them. This general character of development teaches us that it is a mistake to separate lytical and critical phases of development. I think that in order to grasp social life as essential lysubject to change, development and transformation, one must take as a fundamental unit of analysis something which is inherently a process of development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". Andy http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for_Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser. I cannot think of > one historical case to prove the contrary. It is necessary for one > historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to > the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level > executives? I do not think say. Just the same, the argument you > raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I > am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the > discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the > colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which > the colonized accepts and reproduces. This is not liberating, nor > does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Tue Nov 5 03:10:27 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 06:10:27 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the assumption that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come from praxis, ?the ideological structure remains oblivious to the processes taking place...it does not. ?It incorporates, refutes, etc. ?I think polanyi's double movement is appropriate here. ?The ideological superstructure frames lytical changes within the dialectical contradictions of its discourse rendering them innocuous. ..would you say homosexuality, pan-africanism, transgenderism, are lytical changes? ?If they are, what would you say about gay marriage, or the death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Andy Blunden Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it takes as its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, an ideology is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. But, while it is true that history is littered with disasters, and the critical periods of social change are indeed marked by catastrophe, these crtitical phases are prepared and constituted by phases of lytical change and are inseparable from them. This general character of development teaches us that it is a mistake to separate lytical and critical phases of development. I think that in order to grasp social life as essential lysubject to change, development and transformation, one must take as a fundamental unit of analysis something which is inherently a process of development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". Andy http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for_Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser.? I cannot think of > one historical case to prove the contrary.? It is necessary for one > historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. >? Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to > the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level > executives?? I do not think say.? Just the same, the argument you > raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I > am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the > discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the > colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which > the colonized accepts and reproduces.? This is not liberating, nor > does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe From ablunden@mira.net Tue Nov 5 03:24:44 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 22:24:44 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5278D57C.3070600@mira.net> None of these changes are either lytical or critical, Paul, (or rather they are both), since these concepts simply mark alternating phases in a developmental process. Unfortunately, while my interests are mostly in the domain of social-theoretical fundamentals, your article was undoubtedly voted for discussion on xmca because people wanted to learn what you say about Black underachievement. So let me make a seguey by pointing out that your Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mocombeian says that "The Mocombeian Foundation is a Literacy Foundation founded by Dr. Paul C. Mocombe that offers Mocombe's Reading Room Curriculum to help inner-city youth close the achievement gap." But surely this runs somewhat counter to the gist of the views you have expressed in this exchange. You clearly do think that Black underachievement can be overcome evidently without a global catastrophe and have launched a project to that end. Could you elaborate on this? I.e., first of all, on how to tackle the problems highlighted in your paper whilst avoiding the traps you see in the kind of approaches most valued by xmca members? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the assumption > that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come from praxis, > the ideological structure remains oblivious to the processes taking > place...it does not. It incorporates, refutes, etc. I think > polanyi's double movement is appropriate here. The ideological > superstructure frames lytical changes within the dialectical > contradictions of its discourse rendering them innocuous. ..would you > say homosexuality, pan-africanism, transgenderism, are lytical > changes? If they are, what would you say about gay marriage, or the > death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > > I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it takes as > its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, an ideology > is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. But, while it is > true that history is littered with disasters, and the critical periods > of social change are indeed marked by catastrophe, these crtitical > phases are prepared and constituted by phases of lytical change and are > inseparable from them. This general character of development teaches us > that it is a mistake to separate lytical and critical phases of > development. I think that in order to grasp social life as essential > lysubject to change, development and transformation, one must take as a > fundamental unit of analysis something which is inherently a process of > development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". > > Andy > http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for_Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > Andy, > > > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser. I cannot think of > > one historical case to prove the contrary. It is necessary for one > > historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > > Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to > > the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level > > executives? I do not think say. Just the same, the argument you > > raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I > > am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the > > discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the > > colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which > > the colonized accepts and reproduces. This is not liberating, nor > > does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Tue Nov 5 03:59:16 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 06:59:16 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: Andy, The question you raised is directly tied to my theoretical framework. ?It is my recognition that the black academic achievement gap can be resolved through teaching standard english and mentoring, which made me realize my own embourgeoisement, which simply further ties blacks to the status quo as opposed to offering a counterhegemonic solution to it. ?I have begun to question my own methods...and it is my research into the situation facing haiti which has enlightened me ..the pro-US government is pushing education and the masses are pushing education on the island for the same reasons, economic gain, status, and upward mobility within a world threatened by overproduction, consumption, etc. ?Both positions are bourgeois and do not offer solutions facing haiti within the context of the limits to growth metaphysics of the earth itself. ?In essence I have come to realize that bourgeois education does not liberate one from the status quo, but ties them to it. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Andy Blunden Date: 11/05/2013 6:24 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. None of these changes are either lytical or critical, Paul, (or rather they are both), since these concepts simply mark alternating phases in a developmental process. Unfortunately, while my interests are mostly in the domain of social-theoretical fundamentals, your article was undoubtedly voted for discussion on xmca because people wanted to learn what you say about Black underachievement. So let me make a seguey by pointing out that your Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mocombeian says that "The Mocombeian Foundation is a Literacy Foundation founded by Dr. Paul C. Mocombe that offers Mocombe's Reading Room Curriculum to help inner-city youth close the achievement gap." But surely this runs somewhat counter to the gist of the views you have expressed in this exchange. You clearly do think that Black underachievement can be overcome evidently without a global catastrophe and have launched a project to that end. Could you elaborate on this? I.e., first of all, on how to tackle the problems highlighted in your paper whilst avoiding the traps you see in the kind of approaches most valued by xmca members? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the assumption > that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come from praxis, >? the ideological structure remains oblivious to the processes taking > place...it does not.? It incorporates, refutes, etc.? I think > polanyi's double movement is appropriate here.? The ideological > superstructure frames lytical changes within the dialectical > contradictions of its discourse rendering them innocuous. ..would you > say homosexuality, pan-africanism, transgenderism, are lytical > changes?? If they are, what would you say about gay marriage, or the > death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > > I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it takes as > its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, an ideology > is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. But, while it is > true that history is littered with disasters, and the critical periods > of social change are indeed marked by catastrophe, these crtitical > phases are prepared and constituted by phases of lytical change and are > inseparable from them. This general character of development teaches us > that it is a mistake to separate lytical and critical phases of > development. I think that in order to grasp social life as essential > lysubject to change, development and transformation, one must take as a > fundamental unit of analysis something which is inherently a process of > development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". > > Andy > http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for_Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > Andy, > > > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser.? I cannot think of > > one historical case to prove the contrary.? It is necessary for one > > historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > >? Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to > > the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level > > executives?? I do not think say.? Just the same, the argument you > > raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I > > am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the > > discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the > > colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which > > the colonized accepts and reproduces.? This is not liberating, nor > > does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > From carolmacdon@gmail.com Tue Nov 5 04:28:02 2013 From: carolmacdon@gmail.com (Carol Macdonald) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 14:28:02 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is a valid point Paul. There is now a movement which entails using indigenous pedagogy - it started in the early eighties, but has not really taken root. Unfortunately in South Africa at that time, we could not facilitate the developing of such, because in apartheid people was asked to stay with their "origins" in separate physical spaces, as you no doubt know. Western ways were ALL. With very small children statring out in literacy, (Grade 1) we could start with culturally consonant pedagogy, such as the language experience approach. In one regio, there was what called a "mixed approach" which I wrote about. Black people here generally wanted to buy in to western pedagogy and western lifestyles, with conspicuous consumption and so on. There is now a revaluing of "indigenous knowledge systems" (IKS), but it hasn't percolated into formal education. Sorry I can't articulate this paradigm in the same way as Andy and Paul, but I do hope that I have made a valid point. Carol On 5 November 2013 13:59, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > The question you raised is directly tied to my theoretical framework. It > is my recognition that the black academic achievement gap can be resolved > through teaching standard english and mentoring, which made me realize my > own embourgeoisement, which simply further ties blacks to the status quo as > opposed to offering a counterhegemonic solution to it. I have begun to > question my own methods...and it is my research into the situation facing > haiti which has enlightened me ..the pro-US government is pushing education > and the masses are pushing education on the island for the same reasons, > economic gain, status, and upward mobility within a world threatened by > overproduction, consumption, etc. Both positions are bourgeois and do not > offer solutions facing haiti within the context of the limits to growth > metaphysics of the earth itself. In essence I have come to realize that > bourgeois education does not liberate one from the status quo, but ties > them to it. > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/05/2013 6:24 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , > Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > None of these changes are either lytical or critical, Paul, (or rather > they are both), since these concepts simply mark alternating phases in a > developmental process. > > Unfortunately, while my interests are mostly in the domain of > social-theoretical fundamentals, your article was undoubtedly voted for > discussion on xmca because people wanted to learn what you say about > Black underachievement. So let me make a seguey by pointing out that > your Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mocombeian says that "The > Mocombeian Foundation is a Literacy Foundation founded by Dr. Paul C. > Mocombe that offers Mocombe's Reading Room Curriculum to help inner-city > youth close the achievement gap." But surely this runs somewhat counter > to the gist of the views you have expressed in this exchange. You > clearly do think that Black underachievement can be overcome evidently > without a global catastrophe and have launched a project to that end. > > Could you elaborate on this? I.e., first of all, on how to tackle the > problems highlighted in your paper whilst avoiding the traps you see in > the kind of approaches most valued by xmca members? > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the assumption > > that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come from praxis, > > the ideological structure remains oblivious to the processes taking > > place...it does not. It incorporates, refutes, etc. I think > > polanyi's double movement is appropriate here. The ideological > > superstructure frames lytical changes within the dialectical > > contradictions of its discourse rendering them innocuous. ..would you > > say homosexuality, pan-africanism, transgenderism, are lytical > > changes? If they are, what would you say about gay marriage, or the > > death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > President > > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > > www.mocombeian.com > > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Andy Blunden > > Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > > > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > > > > > I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it takes as > > its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, an ideology > > is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. But, while it is > > true that history is littered with disasters, and the critical periods > > of social change are indeed marked by catastrophe, these crtitical > > phases are prepared and constituted by phases of lytical change and are > > inseparable from them. This general character of development teaches us > > that it is a mistake to separate lytical and critical phases of > > development. I think that in order to grasp social life as essential > > lysubject to change, development and transformation, one must take as a > > fundamental unit of analysis something which is inherently a process of > > development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". > > > > Andy > > > http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for_Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > > Andy, > > > > > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser. I cannot think of > > > one historical case to prove the contrary. It is necessary for one > > > historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > > > Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to > > > the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level > > > executives? I do not think say. Just the same, the argument you > > > raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I > > > am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the > > > discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the > > > colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which > > > the colonized accepts and reproduces. This is not liberating, nor > > > does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > > > > > > -- Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Academic, Researcher, and Editor Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Tue Nov 5 05:43:17 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 08:43:17 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: <0yieydqxaw04mgfl77m2fi4f.1383658997150@email.android.com> Carol, Thanks for your response.? .Frantz Fanon argued for what you articulated. ? In Haiti we have begun to establish an academy of kreyol and vodou. ?We consider vodou and kreyol to be mutually inclusive. ?Embedded in the language are the proverbs and metaphysics of vodou.? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Carol Macdonald Date: 11/05/2013 7:28 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" ,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. That is a valid point Paul. ?There is now a movement which entails using indigenous pedagogy - it started in the early eighties, but has not really taken root. Unfortunately in South Africa at that time, we could not facilitate the developing of such, because in apartheid people was asked to stay with their "origins" in separate physical spaces, as you no doubt know. Western ways were ALL. With very small children statring out in literacy, (Grade 1) we could start with culturally consonant pedagogy, such as the language experience approach. ?In one regio, there was what called a "mixed approach" which I wrote about. Black people ? here generally wanted to buy in to western pedagogy and western lifestyles, with conspicuous consumption and so on. There is now a revaluing of "indigenous knowledge systems" (IKS), but it hasn't percolated into formal education. Sorry I can't articulate this paradigm in the same way as Andy and Paul, but I do hope that I have made a valid point. Carol? On 5 November 2013 13:59, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: Andy, The question you raised is directly tied to my theoretical framework. ?It is my recognition that the black academic achievement gap can be resolved through teaching standard english and mentoring, which made me realize my own embourgeoisement, which simply further ties blacks to the status quo as opposed to offering a counterhegemonic solution to it. ?I have begun to question my own methods...and it is my research into the situation facing haiti which has enlightened me ..the pro-US government is pushing education and the masses are pushing education on the island for the same reasons, economic gain, status, and upward mobility within a world threatened by overproduction, consumption, etc. ?Both positions are bourgeois and do not offer solutions facing haiti within the context of the limits to growth metaphysics of the earth itself. ?In essence I have come to realize that bourgeois education does not liberate one from the status quo, but ties them to it. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Andy Blunden Date: 11/05/2013 ?6:24 AM ?(GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. None of these changes are either lytical or critical, Paul, (or rather they are both), since these concepts simply mark alternating phases in a developmental process. Unfortunately, while my interests are mostly in the domain of social-theoretical fundamentals, your article was undoubtedly voted for discussion on xmca because people wanted to learn what you say about Black underachievement. So let me make a seguey by pointing out that your Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mocombeian says that "The Mocombeian Foundation is a Literacy Foundation founded by Dr. Paul C. Mocombe that offers Mocombe's Reading Room Curriculum to help inner-city youth close the achievement gap." But surely this runs somewhat counter to the gist of the views you have expressed in this exchange. You clearly do think that Black underachievement can be overcome evidently without a global catastrophe and have launched a project to that end. Could you elaborate on this? I.e., first of all, on how to tackle the problems highlighted in your paper whilst avoiding the traps you see in the kind of approaches most valued by xmca members? Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the assumption > that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come from praxis, >? the ideological structure remains oblivious to the processes taking > place...it does not.? It incorporates, refutes, etc.? I think > polanyi's double movement is appropriate here.? The ideological > superstructure frames lytical changes within the dialectical > contradictions of its discourse rendering them innocuous. ..would you > say homosexuality, pan-africanism, transgenderism, are lytical > changes?? If they are, what would you say about gay marriage, or the > death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > > I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it takes as > its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, an ideology > is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. But, while it is > true that history is littered with disasters, and the critical periods > of social change are indeed marked by catastrophe, these crtitical > phases are prepared and constituted by phases of lytical change and are > inseparable from them. This general character of development teaches us > that it is a mistake to separate lytical and critical phases of > development. I think that in order to grasp social life as essential > lysubject to change, development and transformation, one must take as a > fundamental unit of analysis something which is inherently a process of > development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". > > Andy > http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for_Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > Andy, > > > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser.? I cannot think of > > one historical case to prove the contrary.? It is necessary for one > > historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > >? Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative to > > the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and high-level > > executives?? I do not think say.? Just the same, the argument you > > raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of homi bhabha...and I > > am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not an alternative to the > > discourse of the colonizer...it is using the discourse of the > > colonizer to convict them of not identifying with their logic, which > > the colonized accepts and reproduces.? This is not liberating, nor > > does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > -- Carol A ?Macdonald Ph D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Academic, Researcher, ?and Editor? Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa ? From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Tue Nov 5 08:57:23 2013 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:57:23 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul - i enjoyed reading your essay - the considerations within it coincide with my own questions regarding the construction of educational experience for minority students of color that is culturally affirmative and supports student academic success. often i find myself overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the work and being mindful of the myriad of pressing concerns and anxieties. your initial citations of John Ogbu's work took me back to his last book, Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Study of Academic Disengagement (2003), which i found to be a fascinating ethnography and deeply rewarding study. i think that Ogbu's work done in shaker heights, a suburb of cleveland, ohio, offers a far more nuanced examination and theoretical understanding of the whys of the lack of academic success of black american students, than you give him credit for. Ogbu used a cultural-ecological theory to examine multiple related closely connection factors affecting black student academic success and engagement. he looked at the history of american institutions and racism, minority responses to that treatment, as well as black student beliefs and actions in relationship to schools, ways of identity construction and how students, faculty, administration and parents explained their interactions. i'm not going to go through the book, but i think that it's important that Ogbu does not use just a oppositional culture hypothesis. certainly Ogbu calls for greater degrees of trust between our black american community and our thus-far white mainstream oriented educational community. that's certainly a tough call - and i think that the extreme difficulty of the engendering trust demonstrates all the more its necessity. Ogbu did have policy suggestions: school choice; performance contracts for teachers and merit pay; cooperative learning as a necessary component of classroom learning activities; culturally responsive pedagogy. i do think that Ogbu would support your findings that "underachievement ... is a mismatch of linguistic structure and social-class function", which you directly attribute to the capitalist social structure of class inequality. which is true, i think, but too deterministic. too cause and effect. for all human social organizations are congeries of inequalities - such is the human condition. more importantly, i'm greatly interested in your research results demonstrating a narrowing of the achievement gap between our various racially designated groups of students. phillip Phillip White, PhD Urban Community Teacher Education Program Site Coordinator Montview Elementary, Aurora, CO phillip.white@ucdenver.edu or pawhite@aps.k12.co.us From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Tue Nov 5 10:02:01 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 13:02:01 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: <5aeoihy77ioxo3h73rv6nx8r.1383674521846@email.android.com> Phillip I agree with you. ?However, I think ogbu's cultural ecological approach under analyze the relationship between black social roles in the society and black academic underachievement. ..that is the fundamental gist of our argument. ? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: "White, Phillip" Date: 11/05/2013 11:57 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" ,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Paul - i enjoyed reading your essay - the considerations within it coincide with my own questions regarding the construction of educational experience for minority students of color that is culturally affirmative and supports student academic success.? often i find myself overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the work and being mindful of the myriad of pressing concerns and anxieties. your initial citations of John Ogbu's work took me back to his last book,? Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Study of Academic Disengagement (2003), which i found to be a fascinating ethnography and deeply rewarding study.? i think that Ogbu's work done in shaker heights, a suburb of cleveland, ohio, offers a far more nuanced examination and theoretical understanding of the whys of the lack of academic success of black american students, than you give him credit for. Ogbu used a cultural-ecological theory to examine multiple related closely connection factors affecting black student academic success and engagement.? he looked at the history of american institutions and racism, minority responses to that treatment, as well as black student beliefs and actions in relationship to schools, ways of identity construction and how students, faculty, administration and parents explained their interactions. i'm not going to go through the book, but i think that it's important that Ogbu does not use just a oppositional culture hypothesis. certainly Ogbu calls for greater degrees of trust between our black american community and our thus-far white mainstream oriented educational community.? that's certainly a tough call - and i think that the extreme difficulty of the engendering trust demonstrates all the more its necessity. Ogbu did have policy suggestions: school choice; performance contracts for teachers and merit pay; cooperative learning as a necessary component of classroom learning activities; culturally responsive pedagogy. i do think that Ogbu would support your findings that "underachievement ... is a mismatch of linguistic structure and social-class function", which you directly attribute to the capitalist social structure of class inequality.? which is true, i think, but too deterministic.? too cause and effect.? for all human social organizations are congeries of inequalities - such is the human condition.? more importantly, i'm greatly interested in your research results demonstrating a narrowing of the achievement gap between our various racially designated groups of students. phillip Phillip White, PhD Urban Community Teacher Education Program Site Coordinator Montview Elementary, Aurora, CO phillip.white@ucdenver.edu or pawhite@aps.k12.co.us From vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp Tue Nov 5 17:41:27 2013 From: vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp (valerie A. Wilkinson) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:41:27 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: <5aeoihy77ioxo3h73rv6nx8r.1383674521846@email.android.com> References: <5aeoihy77ioxo3h73rv6nx8r.1383674521846@email.android.com> Message-ID: <002901ceda91$4fc75660$ef560320$@shizuoka.ac.jp> Paul, In the county where I live academic achievement and culture are very strongly connected. If one is in the dominant culture and good at mathematics, then the world is your oyster! If you are in the dominant culture and in humanities, your star will not rise when you are very young. Your time will come a few years later, when you have wisdom and maturity and achievement. The rewards for attaining high rank in admin. are high. Where is this? Who are the ostracized, the marginalized, the neglected? So the other conversation about your article: culturally integrative and benign evolution versus cataclysmic and adversative, is true in any country or for any people or tribe who live in a dialectic relationship with a dominant culture. Either the dominant culture learns to value and reward achievement and offer complete membership or it invites revolution. We see this being played out on the world stage before our eyes. There is message for the USA who has overwhelming elected a black president by popular election, yet despite that blacks are still not free, nor are the Hispanics, First Nation peoples, and other important groups. I apologize for a very short note in reply to such a nuanced and vital discussion, but General Systems Theory and William Blake take the microcosm (the street sweeper) and the global and universal (One law for the lion and ox is oppression) to be a conversation of the individual in the universe and a vast dialectic between (example) The Law and The Creative. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Dr. Paul C. Mocombe Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 3:02 AM To: White, Phillip; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Phillip I agree with you. However, I think ogbu's cultural ecological approach under analyze the relationship between black social roles in the society and black academic underachievement. ..that is the fundamental gist of our argument. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com www.readingroomcurriculum.com -------- Original message -------- From: "White, Phillip" Date: 11/05/2013 11:57 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" ,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Paul - i enjoyed reading your essay - the considerations within it coincide with my own questions regarding the construction of educational experience for minority students of color that is culturally affirmative and supports student academic success. often i find myself overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the work and being mindful of the myriad of pressing concerns and anxieties. your initial citations of John Ogbu's work took me back to his last book, Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Study of Academic Disengagement (2003), which i found to be a fascinating ethnography and deeply rewarding study. i think that Ogbu's work done in shaker heights, a suburb of cleveland, ohio, offers a far more nuanced examination and theoretical understanding of the whys of the lack of academic success of black american students, than you give him credit for. Ogbu used a cultural-ecological theory to examine multiple related closely connection factors affecting black student academic success and engagement. he looked at the history of american institutions and racism, minority responses to that treatment, as well as black student beliefs and actions in relationship to schools, ways of identity construction and how students, faculty, administration and parents explained their interactions. i'm not going to go through the book, but i think that it's important that Ogbu does not use just a oppositional culture hypothesis. certainly Ogbu calls for greater degrees of trust between our black american community and our thus-far white mainstream oriented educational community. that's certainly a tough call - and i think that the extreme difficulty of the engendering trust demonstrates all the more its necessity. Ogbu did have policy suggestions: school choice; performance contracts for teachers and merit pay; cooperative learning as a necessary component of classroom learning activities; culturally responsive pedagogy. i do think that Ogbu would support your findings that "underachievement ... is a mismatch of linguistic structure and social-class function", which you directly attribute to the capitalist social structure of class inequality. which is true, i think, but too deterministic. too cause and effect. for all human social organizations are congeries of inequalities - such is the human condition. more importantly, i'm greatly interested in your research results demonstrating a narrowing of the achievement gap between our various racially designated groups of students. phillip Phillip White, PhD Urban Community Teacher Education Program Site Coordinator Montview Elementary, Aurora, CO phillip.white@ucdenver.edu or pawhite@aps.k12.co.us From haydizulfei@rocketmail.com Wed Nov 6 04:17:21 2013 From: haydizulfei@rocketmail.com (Haydi Zulfei) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:17:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1383740241.82610.YahooMailNeo@web172304.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hi all - [[i do think that Ogbu would support your findings that "underachievement ... is a mismatch of linguistic structure and social-class function", which you directly attribute to the capitalist social structure of class inequality.? which is true, i think, but too deterministic.? too cause and effect.? for all human social organizations are congeries of inequalities - such is the human condition.??]] November 5, 2013, 12:01 am The Decline of the Tea Party By?BRUCE BARTLETT Bruce Bartlett?held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul. He is the author of the forthcoming book ?The Benefit and the Burden: Tax Reform ? Why We Need It and What It Will Take.? There is an apocryphal story about the origins of neoconservatism in the 1960s. Some liberal professors at Harvard were sympathetic to the New Left and such radical groups as Students for a Democratic Society. But one day one of these professors heard the radicals suggest burning down the Harvard library as an act of protest, and the professor suddenly realized that he had nothing in common with them at all. He organized some other professors into a vigil to protect the library at all cost. Today?s Economist Perspectives from expert contributors. Today, the problem isn?t the New Left, but the radical right, which has dominated American politics at least since the rise of the?Tea Party movement?in 2009 following the election of Barack Obama. It?s too soon to say for sure, but recent events suggest that some of those previously supporting the Tea Party have had their Harvard library moment. There are signs of a pushback among the wealthy, conservative elites and the business community that may see the political pendulum begin to swing back toward the middle. No one particular event seems to have created this moment. The government shutdown is one, the impending Republican loss in the Virginia governor?s race is another, and so is the dawning recognition that the right-wing war on the poor and glorification of profits and wealth may have gone too far. One sign is the widely discussed essay published on Nov. 1 by the managing director of Pimco, William H. Gross, on ?Scrooge McDucks.? McDuck, the cartoon character noted for his vast fortune and miserly ways, was ranked first by Forbes among the fictional wealthy, with a fortune estimated at $65 billion. Mr. Gross,?ranked 252nd on the Forbes 400?list of wealthiest Americans, said in his essay that having become wealthy in part because of the tax cuts carried out by Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, as well as the low interest rate policies of the Federal Reserve that facilitated leveraged borrowing, he had become concerned about the plight of labor. That is, the?declining share of national income?going to workers and the rising share going to capital, which is a?growing topic of concern?among economists. He calls this era the ?gilded age of credit.? The Gilded Age was a period of American history in the 1870s and 1880s not dissimilar to today, when wealth was glorified and such intellectuals as the Yale economist William Graham Sumner and the philosopher Herbert Spencer justified the pursuit of riches and rising income inequality on grounds that have come to be called ?social Darwinism.? That is, survival of the fittest. Mr. Gross now thinks that labor has suffered too much from excessive gains by the wealthy. ?Those who borrowed money or charged fees on expanding financial assets had a much better chance of making it to the big tent than those who used their hands for a living,? he laments. He thinks the wealthy ought to support higher taxes on themselves. Mr. Gross favors higher statutory tax rates, taxing capital gains as ordinary income ? they are now taxed about half ? and abolition of the ?carried interest? loophole that allows?hedge fund managers?to pay capital gains rates on their ordinary income. Another growing concern of the wealthy and business groups is the recognition that they lack any control over the Tea Party. A major problem is that Tea Party people are only interested in nominating Republicans based on their rigid adherence to right-wing principles, even if they make such candidates unelectable in the general election. A number of Senate elections have been lost in recent years because Tea Party insurgents upset in primaries or party conventions some mainstream candidates who probably would have won their races. This appears to be happening again in the Virginia governor?s race, where Republicans nominated for governor and lieutenant governor two candidates who are?very far to the right?in a state that is trending left. The business community is?especially upset?by having the Tea Party repeatedly throw away winnable races and is trying to inject more?political realism?into the nominating process. Some business groups are even reaching out to Democrats. The Fairfax Chamber of Commerce in Virginia, for example,?endorsed the Democratic candidate?for governor this year for the first time in recent memory. It isn?t only rich people feeling guilt over their riches and pragmatic business groups that are dissenting from the Tea Party orthodoxy. Some Republicans and conservative intellectuals are now saying that cuts to the welfare state have gone too far as well. On Oct. 28, the Republican governor of Ohio, John R. Kasich,?blasted his party?for its ?war on the poor.? He said that the G.O.P. implicitly believed that ?if you?re poor, somehow you are shiftless and lazy.? Against Tea Party opposition, Governor Kasich recently expanded Medicaid in his state under the Affordable Care Act ? an act of virtual treason against Tea Party dogma. On Oct. 31, Arthur Brooks, president of the American Enterprise Institute, a prominent think tank in Washington,?said the conservative war against the social safety net?was ?just insane.? He urged his fellow conservatives to ?declare peace on the safety net.? James Pethokoukis, a scholar at the institute,?seconded that olive branch?to the poor, saying the social safety net had performed well during the economic crisis, contrary to the Tea Party view that programs like food stamps and unemployment insurance only subsidize idleness. He says conservatives should work to mend the welfare state, not end it. It is ironic that that A.E.I. should be leading the charge toward a more sympathetic approach to the poor; another of its scholars, Nicholas Eberstadt, wrote a book last year, ?A Nation of Takers,? which blasted growth of the welfare population and was?widely credited?with inspiring?Mitt Romney?s attack?on the 47 percent of the population who are ?dependent on government.? I have long believed that the Tea Party is a populist movement with no staying power. When it was at its peak, conservatives and Republicans sought to harness its energy to achieve long-held ideological, electoral and legislative goals. But the Tea Party has proved to be a double-edged sword that now threatens those goals more than it aids them. A pushback has clearly begun. Republican hopes in 2016 may depend on how well it succeeds. A Nation of Takers: America's Entitlement Epidemic (Book),?Conservatism (US Politics),?Gross, William H,?Republican Party,?Tea Party Movement,?United States Politics and Government ________________________________ From: "White, Phillip" To: Dr. Paul C. Mocombe ; "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013, 20:27:23 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Paul - i enjoyed reading your essay - the considerations within it coincide with my own questions regarding the construction of educational experience for minority students of color that is culturally affirmative and supports student academic success.? often i find myself overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the work and being mindful of the myriad of pressing concerns and anxieties. your initial citations of John Ogbu's work took me back to his last book,? Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb: A Study of Academic Disengagement (2003), which i found to be a fascinating ethnography and deeply rewarding study.? i think that Ogbu's work done in shaker heights, a suburb of cleveland, ohio, offers a far more nuanced examination and theoretical understanding of the whys of the lack of academic success of black american students, than you give him credit for. Ogbu used a cultural-ecological theory to examine multiple related closely connection factors affecting black student academic success and engagement.? he looked at the history of american institutions and racism, minority responses to that treatment, as well as black student beliefs and actions in relationship to schools, ways of identity construction and how students, faculty, administration and parents explained their interactions. i'm not going to go through the book, but i think that it's important that Ogbu does not use just a oppositional culture hypothesis. certainly Ogbu calls for greater degrees of trust between our black american community and our thus-far white mainstream oriented educational community.? that's certainly a tough call - and i think that the extreme difficulty of the engendering trust demonstrates all the more its necessity. Ogbu did have policy suggestions: school choice; performance contracts for teachers and merit pay; cooperative learning as a necessary component of classroom learning activities; culturally responsive pedagogy. i do think that Ogbu would support your findings that "underachievement ... is a mismatch of linguistic structure and social-class function", which you directly attribute to the capitalist social structure of class inequality.? which is true, i think, but too deterministic.? too cause and effect.? for all human social organizations are congeries of inequalities - such is the human condition.? more importantly, i'm greatly interested in your research results demonstrating a narrowing of the achievement gap between our various racially designated groups of students. phillip Phillip White, PhD Urban Community Teacher Education Program Site Coordinator Montview Elementary, Aurora, CO phillip.white@ucdenver.edu or pawhite@aps.k12.co.us From vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp Thu Nov 7 15:28:59 2013 From: vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp (valerie A. Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 08:28:59 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003301cedc11$23927a80$6ab76f80$@shizuoka.ac.jp> Members of XMCA forum (with special thanks to the discussion of Dr. Paul Macombe and Carol Macdonald), I must apologize for my "kamikaze dive" into a discussion of Tomlin, Mocombe, and Wright's article. I feel that we haven't really begun to discuss this article, but how can we discuss it if I haven't read it? Then if I read it, how can I speak to it? Carol Macdonald, in her brief note below, opened an avenue with the line "because in apartheid people was asked to stay with their "origins" in separate physical spaces, as you no doubt know." This is not just Africa, but Brazil, and India, etc. This is closely connected with something I have personally read and can talk about, The Pedagogy of Oppression. Paolo Freire. We can see the constraints of oppression, of people hobbled and burdened in the "legitimate" SLAVERY of capitalism. We educators must speak about how to enhance the learning environment and enable individual children to better themselves and the community - not design cunning ways to keep "our brothers" down. The proposed reflection on " Marxian conceptions of identity construction within capitalist relations of production with the Wittgensteinian notion of "languagegames" to offer a more appropriate relational framework" sketches in the field and the framework for discussion in this Extended Mind, Culture, Activity forum. I am a full time teacher, challenged by my own environment, experiencing the constraints of oppression new to me in an environment of a dominant culture to which I am an immigrant. I want to join this conversation so I hunt for the connections using framing provided by General Systems Theory and my own educational background and life experience. I'm afraid I am rude and ignorant, but I do not mean to be. Thank you. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Carol Macdonald Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 9:28 PM To: Dr. Paul C. Mocombe; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. That is a valid point Paul. There is now a movement which entails using indigenous pedagogy - it started in the early eighties, but has not really taken root. Unfortunately in South Africa at that time, we could not facilitate the developing of such, because in apartheid people was asked to stay with their "origins" in separate physical spaces, as you no doubt know. Western ways were ALL. With very small children statring out in literacy, (Grade 1) we could start with culturally consonant pedagogy, such as the language experience approach. In one regio, there was what called a "mixed approach" which I wrote about. Black people here generally wanted to buy in to western pedagogy and western lifestyles, with conspicuous consumption and so on. There is now a revaluing of "indigenous knowledge systems" (IKS), but it hasn't percolated into formal education. Sorry I can't articulate this paradigm in the same way as Andy and Paul, but I do hope that I have made a valid point. Carol On 5 November 2013 13:59, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > The question you raised is directly tied to my theoretical framework. > It is my recognition that the black academic achievement gap can be > resolved through teaching standard english and mentoring, which made > me realize my own embourgeoisement, which simply further ties blacks > to the status quo as opposed to offering a counterhegemonic solution > to it. I have begun to question my own methods...and it is my > research into the situation facing haiti which has enlightened me > ..the pro-US government is pushing education and the masses are > pushing education on the island for the same reasons, economic gain, > status, and upward mobility within a world threatened by > overproduction, consumption, etc. Both positions are bourgeois and do > not offer solutions facing haiti within the context of the limits to > growth metaphysics of the earth itself. In essence I have come to > realize that bourgeois education does not liberate one from the status quo, but ties them to it. > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/05/2013 6:24 AM (GMT-05:00) > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , > Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > None of these changes are either lytical or critical, Paul, (or rather > they are both), since these concepts simply mark alternating phases in > a developmental process. > > Unfortunately, while my interests are mostly in the domain of > social-theoretical fundamentals, your article was undoubtedly voted > for discussion on xmca because people wanted to learn what you say > about Black underachievement. So let me make a seguey by pointing out > that your Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mocombeian says that > "The Mocombeian Foundation is a Literacy Foundation founded by Dr. Paul C. > Mocombe that offers Mocombe's Reading Room Curriculum to help > inner-city youth close the achievement gap." But surely this runs > somewhat counter to the gist of the views you have expressed in this > exchange. You clearly do think that Black underachievement can be > overcome evidently without a global catastrophe and have launched a project to that end. > > Could you elaborate on this? I.e., first of all, on how to tackle the > problems highlighted in your paper whilst avoiding the traps you see > in the kind of approaches most valued by xmca members? > > Andy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the > > assumption that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come > > from praxis, the ideological structure remains oblivious to the > > processes taking place...it does not. It incorporates, refutes, > > etc. I think polanyi's double movement is appropriate here. The > > ideological superstructure frames lytical changes within the > > dialectical contradictions of its discourse rendering them > > innocuous. ..would you say homosexuality, pan-africanism, > > transgenderism, are lytical changes? If they are, what would you > > say about gay marriage, or the death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > President > > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > > www.mocombeian.com > > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Andy Blunden > > Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol > > Tomlin > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > > > > > I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it > > takes as its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, > > an ideology is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. > > But, while it is true that history is littered with disasters, and > > the critical periods of social change are indeed marked by > > catastrophe, these crtitical phases are prepared and constituted by > > phases of lytical change and are inseparable from them. This general > > character of development teaches us that it is a mistake to separate > > lytical and critical phases of development. I think that in order to > > grasp social life as essential lysubject to change, development and > > transformation, one must take as a fundamental unit of analysis > > something which is inherently a process of development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". > > > > Andy > > > http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for > _Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > *Andy Blunden* > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > > Andy, > > > > > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser. I cannot think > > > of one historical case to prove the contrary. It is necessary for > > > one historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > > > Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative > > > to the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and > > > high-level executives? I do not think say. Just the same, the > > > argument you raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of > > > homi bhabha...and I am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not > > > an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer...it is using the > > > discourse of the colonizer to convict them of not identifying with > > > their logic, which the colonized accepts and reproduces. This is > > > not liberating, nor does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > > > > > > -- Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Academic, Researcher, and Editor Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa From philchappell@mac.com Thu Nov 7 15:52:48 2013 From: philchappell@mac.com (Philip Chappell) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 10:52:48 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] LCHC newlsetter archives Message-ID: <527C27D0.6070501@mac.com> After reviewing discussions on xmca from the distant past I found a lead to a paper that looked like it just might nudge me in the right direction. Still, A. & Costall, A., 1989, The mutual elimination of dualism in Vygotsky and Gibson, /Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition/ (11), pp. 131-5 http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/oc89v11n4.PDF#page=25 Alas, pages 132-133 are missing. Would anyone happen to have this issue or this article or even these missing 2 pages? It would be greatly appreciated. Phil Chappell From philchappell@mac.com Thu Nov 7 15:56:54 2013 From: philchappell@mac.com (Philip Chappell) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 10:56:54 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] LCHC newsletter archive Message-ID: <527C28C6.8090402@mac.com> After reviewing discussions on xmca from the distant past I found a lead to a paper that looked like it just might nudge me in the right direction. Still, A. & Costall, A., 1989, The mutual elimination of dualism in Vygotsky and Gibson, Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition (11), pp. 131-5 http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/oc89v11n4.PDF#page=25 Alas, pages 132-133 are missing. Would anyone happen to have this issue or this article or even these missing 2 pages? It would be greatly appreciated. Phil Chappell From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Thu Nov 7 16:02:32 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:02:32 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Message-ID: <1g9bbrqhmrxm9wanp72bf1fk.1383868418768@email.android.com> Valerie,? I am a bit pessimistic. ? I believe liberation from the vagaries of capitalist oppression can only come from the outside, ?i.e., the earth itself fighting against the accumulative logic of capitalism, islamic fundamentalism, ?etc. ..as educators we participate, contrary to Freire's dialogical pedagogy, in facilitating the oppression of the masses. ? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: "valerie A. Wilkinson" Date: 11/07/2013 6:28 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. Members of XMCA forum (with special thanks to the discussion of Dr. Paul Macombe and Carol Macdonald), I must apologize for my "kamikaze dive" into a discussion of Tomlin, Mocombe, and Wright's article. I feel that we haven't really begun to discuss this article, but how can we discuss it if I haven't read it?? Then if I read it, how can I speak to it? Carol Macdonald, in her brief note below, opened an avenue with the line "because in apartheid people was asked to stay with their "origins" in separate physical spaces, as you no doubt know." This is not just Africa, but Brazil, and India, etc.? This is closely connected with something I have personally read and can talk about, The Pedagogy of Oppression. Paolo Freire. We can see the constraints of oppression, of people hobbled and burdened in the "legitimate" SLAVERY of capitalism. We educators must speak about how to enhance the learning environment and enable individual children to better themselves and the community - not design cunning ways to keep "our brothers" down.? The proposed reflection on " Marxian conceptions of identity construction within capitalist relations of production with the Wittgensteinian notion of "languagegames" to offer a more appropriate relational framework" sketches in the field and the framework for discussion in this Extended Mind, Culture, Activity forum. I am a full time teacher, challenged by my own environment, experiencing the constraints of oppression new to me in an environment of a dominant culture to which I am an immigrant.? I want to join this conversation so I hunt for the connections using framing provided by General Systems Theory and my own educational background and life experience.? I'm afraid I am rude and ignorant, but I do not mean to be. Thank you. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Carol Macdonald Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 9:28 PM To: Dr. Paul C. Mocombe; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. That is a valid point Paul.? There is now a movement which entails using indigenous pedagogy - it started in the early eighties, but has not really taken root. Unfortunately in South Africa at that time, we could not facilitate the developing of such, because in apartheid people was asked to stay with their "origins" in separate physical spaces, as you no doubt know. Western ways were ALL. With very small children statring out in literacy, (Grade 1) we could start with culturally consonant pedagogy, such as the language experience approach.? In one regio, there was what called a "mixed approach" which I wrote about. Black people?? here generally wanted to buy in to western pedagogy and western lifestyles, with conspicuous consumption and so on. There is now a revaluing of "indigenous knowledge systems" (IKS), but it hasn't percolated into formal education. Sorry I can't articulate this paradigm in the same way as Andy and Paul, but I do hope that I have made a valid point. Carol On 5 November 2013 13:59, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > Andy, > > The question you raised is directly tied to my theoretical framework.? > It is my recognition that the black academic achievement gap can be > resolved through teaching standard english and mentoring, which made > me realize my own embourgeoisement, which simply further ties blacks > to the status quo as opposed to offering a counterhegemonic solution > to it.? I have begun to question my own methods...and it is my > research into the situation facing haiti which has enlightened me > ..the pro-US government is pushing education and the masses are > pushing education on the island for the same reasons, economic gain, > status, and upward mobility within a world threatened by > overproduction, consumption, etc.? Both positions are bourgeois and do > not offer solutions facing haiti within the context of the limits to > growth metaphysics of the earth itself.? In essence I have come to > realize that bourgeois education does not liberate one from the status quo, but ties them to it. > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date: 11/05/2013? 6:24 AM? (GMT-05:00) > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" , > Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol Tomlin > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > None of these changes are either lytical or critical, Paul, (or rather > they are both), since these concepts simply mark alternating phases in > a developmental process. > > Unfortunately, while my interests are mostly in the domain of > social-theoretical fundamentals, your article was undoubtedly voted > for discussion on xmca because people wanted to learn what you say > about Black underachievement. So let me make a seguey by pointing out > that your Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mocombeian says that > "The Mocombeian Foundation is a Literacy Foundation founded by Dr. Paul C. > Mocombe that offers Mocombe's Reading Room Curriculum to help > inner-city youth close the achievement gap." But surely this runs > somewhat counter to the gist of the views you have expressed in this > exchange. You clearly do think that Black underachievement can be > overcome evidently without a global catastrophe and have launched a project to that end. > > Could you elaborate on this? I.e., first of all, on how to tackle the > problems highlighted in your paper whilst avoiding the traps you see > in the kind of approaches most valued by xmca members? > > Andy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > The problem with that assessment andy is that it makes the > > assumption that amidst lytical changes, which I am assuming come > > from praxis,? the ideological structure remains oblivious to the > > processes taking place...it does not.? It incorporates, refutes, > > etc.? I think polanyi's double movement is appropriate here.? The > > ideological superstructure frames lytical changes within the > > dialectical contradictions of its discourse rendering them > > innocuous. ..would you say homosexuality, pan-africanism, > > transgenderism, are lytical changes?? If they are, what would you > > say about gay marriage, or the death of pan-africanism amongst black americanism? > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > President > > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > > www.mocombeian.com > > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Andy Blunden > > Date: 11/04/2013 7:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > > To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" > > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > ,Cecile.Wright@nottingham.ac.uk,carol > > Tomlin > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: Black Underachievement, etc. > > > > > > I think the fundamental flaw of this approach, Paul, is that it > > takes as its fundamental units, entities which are unchanging. Yes, > > an ideology is by definition, self-sustaining and self-justifying. > > But, while it is true that history is littered with disasters, and > > the critical periods of social change are indeed marked by > > catastrophe, these crtitical phases are prepared and constituted by > > phases of lytical change and are inseparable from them. This general > > character of development teaches us that it is a mistake to separate > > lytical and critical phases of development. I think that in order to > > grasp social life as essential lysubject to change, development and > > transformation, one must take as a fundamental unit of analysis > > something which is inherently a process of development. I use "project", others simply call it "an activity". > > > > Andy > > > http://www.academia.edu/2365533/Collaborative_Project_as_a_Concept_for > _Interdisciplinary_Human_Science_Research > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > *Andy Blunden* > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > > > Andy, > > > > > > Unfortunately, I am in agreement with althusser.? I cannot think > > > of one historical case to prove the contrary.? It is necessary for > > > one historical frame to replace another via catastrophe and revolution. > > >? Can we truly say that the middle class represents an alternative > > > to the dominant ideology of the upper-class of owners and > > > high-level executives?? I do not think say.? Just the same, the > > > argument you raise is tantamount to the hybridity discourse of > > > homi bhabha...and I am in agreement with spivak, hybridity is not > > > an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer...it is using the > > > discourse of the colonizer to convict them of not identifying with > > > their logic, which the colonized accepts and reproduces.? This is > > > not liberating, nor does it offer an alternative to the discourse of the colonizer. > > > > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > > > > > > -- Carol A? Macdonald Ph D (Edin) Developmental psycholinguist Academic, Researcher,? and Editor Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa From lchcmike@gmail.com Thu Nov 7 16:21:42 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 16:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LCHC newlsetter archives In-Reply-To: <527C27D0.6070501@mac.com> References: <527C27D0.6070501@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the heads up, Phil. We will go find the missing pages and make a new pdf. Such tips are really helpful. mike On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Philip Chappell wrote: > After reviewing discussions on xmca from the distant past I found a lead > to a paper that looked like it just might nudge me in the right direction. > > Still, A. & Costall, A., 1989, The mutual elimination of dualism in > Vygotsky and Gibson, /Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of Comparative > Human Cognition/ (11), pp. 131-5 > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/oc89v11n4.PDF#page=25 > > Alas, pages 132-133 are missing. Would anyone happen to have this issue or > this article or even these missing 2 pages? It would be greatly appreciated. > > Phil Chappell > From philchappell@mac.com Thu Nov 7 17:56:24 2013 From: philchappell@mac.com (Phil Chappell) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:56:24 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LCHC newlsetter archives In-Reply-To: References: <527C27D0.6070501@mac.com> Message-ID: <527C44C8.4090908@mac.com> Much appreciated, Mike. Phil On 8/11/2013 11:21 am, mike cole wrote: > Thanks for the heads up, Phil. We will go find the missing pages and make a > new pdf. Such tips are really helpful. > mike > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Philip Chappell wrote: > >> After reviewing discussions on xmca from the distant past I found a lead >> to a paper that looked like it just might nudge me in the right direction. >> >> Still, A. & Costall, A., 1989, The mutual elimination of dualism in >> Vygotsky and Gibson, /Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of Comparative >> Human Cognition/ (11), pp. 131-5 >> >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/oc89v11n4.PDF#page=25 >> >> Alas, pages 132-133 are missing. Would anyone happen to have this issue or >> this article or even these missing 2 pages? It would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Phil Chappell >> From lsmolucha@hotmail.com Thu Nov 7 18:54:16 2013 From: lsmolucha@hotmail.com (larry smolucha) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 20:54:16 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] The illusion of cultural authenticity Message-ID: Message from Francine: I have been following the discussion of 'black underachievement'and have a few thoughts to share. (1) The overgeneralization inherent in the vary term 'black underachievement'is dismissive of black academic achievement. I would prefer to use the termblack academic achievement gap. (2) Polarizing the discussion into black vs. white, people of color vs. whites, colonialism vs. indigenous, capitalism vs. the oppressed, only exasperatesantagonisms. [If one's agenda is to promote open conflict to achieve revolutionthat is one thing, and any discourse is actually a diatribe] Polarized thinking can help to define the thesis and anti-thesisin a dialectic but it will not in and of itself lead to any synthesis or emergentconceptual framework. Of course, the dialectical model I refer to is the Eurocentric, 19th Century thought of Hegel so it can be dissed on that basis. (3)The movement to identify the roots of indigenous non-Western cultures andbuild new emergent cultural frameworks to replace Western capitalism, colonialism,and all vestiges of any European culture is based on an illusion. It assumesthat indigenous culture has some ahistorical defining characteristics, andthat one can identify these if one goes back to the precolonial roots of the 'indigenous culture'. I think XMCA had brief discussion some time ago about the creation of nationalidentity or ethnic identity. This is such an emotionally charged topic for somepeople, that the very suggestion that cultures evolve is threatening.For example, the black population of Haiti is not the indigenous population ofHaiti and while most African slaves may have come from a specific part ofAfrica, they surely represented several different African tribal cultures. (4) Contemporary academic achievement require a specific skill set consisting of reading and writing literacy, basic to higher level math skills, computer literacy,basic to higher level scientific reasoning, and some knowledge of world history and humanities. What does this mean for indigenous people who did not have a writtenlanguage prior to contact with literate cultures (perhaps European, Arabic, Persian, Chinese)? For example, the Russians had no written language until the Byzantine missionaries,Saints Cyril and Methodius, formulated the Cyrillic alphabet for them. And, the Russiansof Eastern Europe where not one indigenous people but the Rus (the Norsemen fromScandanvia, i.e., Vikings) and the more indigenous Slavic populations.To be accuratethe Norsemen did use the Runes as script. [Oh, by the way the word slave derives from Slav because they were so frequently enslaved en masse during Turkish and TarTar invasions.] (5) My work on Cultural Synergy from a Vygotskian Perspective is ongoing. From dkirsh@lsu.edu Thu Nov 7 19:17:26 2013 From: dkirsh@lsu.edu (David H Kirshner) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 03:17:26 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LCHC newlsetter archives In-Reply-To: References: <527C27D0.6070501@mac.com> Message-ID: <1F3A303FB8B8A9429CE2720B7C8D4B73405B81A8@BY2PRD0610MB354.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> In case you can't find it, they published it (or a new version of it) a couple of years later. Still, A. & Costall, A. (1991). The mutual elimination of dualism in Vygotsky and Gibson. In A. Still & A. Costall (Eds.), Against cognitivism: Alternative foundations for cognitive psychology (225-236). New York: Harvester Wheatsheaf. David -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 6:22 PM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LCHC newlsetter archives Thanks for the heads up, Phil. We will go find the missing pages and make a new pdf. Such tips are really helpful. mike On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Philip Chappell wrote: > After reviewing discussions on xmca from the distant past I found a > lead to a paper that looked like it just might nudge me in the right direction. > > Still, A. & Costall, A., 1989, The mutual elimination of dualism in > Vygotsky and Gibson, /Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of > Comparative Human Cognition/ (11), pp. 131-5 > > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/oc89v11n4.PDF#page=25 > > Alas, pages 132-133 are missing. Would anyone happen to have this > issue or this article or even these missing 2 pages? It would be greatly appreciated. > > Phil Chappell > From ablunden@mira.net Thu Nov 7 19:25:18 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 14:25:18 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <527C599E.8050809@mira.net> Francine, I don't think Paul's point is about "ethnic" differences, but so much as about utilising forms of interaction which express fundamental relations of the society of which they are a part, e.g., theories of education which mirror theories of the organisation of production. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong there. And if there is a theory about exacerbating and polarising social antagonisms in order to facilitate revolution, it may well be European in origin, but it certainly did not originate from Hegel. And I don't think it is Paul's point either. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong here, too. It is more that only an extrernal catastrophic collapse can terminate an otherwise self-enclosed system of activity and ideology. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ larry smolucha wrote: > Message from Francine: > I have been following the discussion of 'black underachievement'and have a few thoughts to share. > (1) The overgeneralization inherent in the vary term 'black underachievement'is dismissive of black academic achievement. I would prefer to use the termblack academic achievement gap. > (2) Polarizing the discussion into black vs. white, people of color vs. whites, colonialism vs. indigenous, capitalism vs. the oppressed, only exasperates antagonisms. [If one's agenda is to promote open conflict to achieve revolutionthat is one thing, and any discourse is actually a diatribe] > Polarized thinking can help to define the thesis and anti-thesisin a dialectic but it will not in and of itself lead to any synthesis or emergent conceptual framework. Of course, the dialectical model I refer to is the Eurocentric, 19th Century thought of Hegel so it can be dissed on that basis. > (3)The movement to identify the roots of indigenous non-Western cultures andbuild new emergent cultural frameworks to replace Western capitalism, colonialism,and all vestiges of any European culture is based on an illusion. It assumesthat indigenous culture has some ahistorical defining characteristics, andthat one can identify these if one goes back to the precolonial roots of the 'indigenous culture'. > I think XMCA had brief discussion some time ago about the creation of nationalidentity or ethnic identity. This is such an emotionally charged topic for somepeople, that the very suggestion that cultures evolve is threatening.For example, the black population of Haiti is not the indigenous population ofHaiti and while most African slaves may have come from a specific part ofAfrica, they surely represented several different African tribal cultures. > (4) Contemporary academic achievement require a specific skill set consisting of reading and writing literacy, basic to higher level math skills, computer literacy,basic to higher level scientific reasoning, and some knowledge of world history and humanities. What does this mean for indigenous people who did not have a writtenlanguage prior to contact with literate cultures (perhaps European, Arabic, Persian, Chinese)? > For example, the Russians had no written language until the Byzantine missionaries,Saints Cyril and Methodius, formulated the Cyrillic alphabet for them. And, the Russiansof Eastern Europe where not one indigenous people but the Rus (the Norsemen fromScandanvia, i.e., Vikings) and the more indigenous Slavic populations.To be accuratethe Norsemen did use the Runes as script. [Oh, by the way the word slave derives from Slav because they were so frequently enslaved en masse during Turkish and TarTar invasions.] > > (5) My work on Cultural Synergy from a Vygotskian Perspective is ongoing. > > > > > > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Thu Nov 7 20:09:59 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 23:09:59 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity Message-ID: <345l8p0u85dcb31qalw3obs9.1383882951196@email.android.com> Andy, You address the points perfectly. ?I would like to add that in the case of haiti...the culture is a kreyol one that incorporated all the elements of the African tribes and the native tainoes into its conceptualization. ?This is why Dessalines called the island ayiti, its original taino name. ?This postmodern initiative of the maroon communities, newly arrived slaves, and field slaves was juxtaposed against the bourgeois eurocentric culture of the Affranchis, petit bourgeois blacks, house slaves, and mulatto elites who would seek to dominate the island with the assassination of dessalines on october 17th, 1806. ?It is within this cultural dialectical context that haiti must be understood. ?The vodou culture and kreyol of the masses juxtaposed against the french and eurocentric culture of the minority. ?In the case of black america, it is a class dialectical structure as william julius wilson points out (1978). ?As such, the black academic achievement gap is an epiphenomenon of this class division and the social relations of production not culture. Sent from my Sprint tablet -------- Original message -------- From: Andy Blunden Date:11/07/2013 10:25 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity Francine, I don't think Paul's point is about "ethnic" differences, but so much as about utilising forms of interaction which express fundamental relations of the society of which they are a part, e.g., theories of education which mirror theories of the organisation of production. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong there. And if there is a theory about exacerbating and polarising social antagonisms in order to facilitate revolution, it may well be European in origin, but it certainly did not originate from Hegel. And I don't think it is Paul's point either. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong here, too. It is more that only an extrernal catastrophic collapse can terminate an otherwise self-enclosed system of activity and ideology. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ larry smolucha wrote: > Message from Francine: > I have been following the discussion of 'black underachievement'and have a few thoughts to share. > (1) The overgeneralization inherent in the vary term 'black underachievement'is dismissive of black academic achievement. I would prefer to use the termblack academic achievement gap. > (2) Polarizing the discussion into black vs. white, people of color vs. whites, colonialism vs. indigenous, capitalism vs. the oppressed, only exasperates antagonisms. [If one's agenda is to promote open conflict to achieve revolutionthat is one thing, and any discourse is actually a diatribe] > Polarized thinking can help to define the thesis and anti-thesisin a dialectic but it will not in and of itself lead to any synthesis or emergent conceptual framework. Of course,? the dialectical model I refer to is the Eurocentric, 19th Century thought of Hegel so it can be dissed on that basis. > (3)The movement to identify the roots of indigenous non-Western cultures andbuild new emergent cultural frameworks to replace Western capitalism, colonialism,and all vestiges of any European culture is based on an illusion. It assumesthat indigenous culture has some ahistorical defining characteristics, andthat one can identify these if one goes back to the precolonial roots of the 'indigenous culture'. > I think XMCA had brief discussion some time ago about the creation of nationalidentity or ethnic identity. This is such an emotionally charged topic for somepeople, that the very suggestion that cultures evolve is threatening.For example, the black population of Haiti is not the indigenous population ofHaiti and while most African slaves? may have come from a specific part ofAfrica, they surely represented several different African tribal cultures. > (4) Contemporary academic achievement require a specific skill set consisting of reading and writing literacy, basic to higher level math skills, computer literacy,basic to higher level scientific reasoning, and some knowledge of world history and humanities. What does this mean for indigenous people who did not have a writtenlanguage prior to contact with literate cultures (perhaps European, Arabic, Persian, Chinese)? > For example, the Russians had no written language until the Byzantine missionaries,Saints Cyril and Methodius, formulated the Cyrillic alphabet for them. And, the Russiansof Eastern Europe where not one indigenous people but the Rus (the Norsemen fromScandanvia, i.e., Vikings) and the more indigenous Slavic populations.To be accuratethe Norsemen did use the Runes as script. [Oh, by the way the word slave derives from Slav because they were so frequently enslaved en masse during Turkish and TarTar invasions.] > > (5) My work on Cultural Synergy from a Vygotskian Perspective is ongoing. > > > > >? ?? ? > >?? From lsmolucha@hotmail.com Fri Nov 8 01:47:30 2013 From: lsmolucha@hotmail.com (larry smolucha) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 03:47:30 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity In-Reply-To: <345l8p0u85dcb31qalw3obs9.1383882951196@email.android.com> References: <345l8p0u85dcb31qalw3obs9.1383882951196@email.android.com> Message-ID: Message from Francine Smolucha: Paul, Is not kreyol itself derived from 18th century French?Doesn't this make the kreyol language and concepts expressed by means of it,a hybrid of European, West African, and Taino cultures? It would also be worthwhile for XMCARS following this thread to look at JuliusWilson's 2009 book More Than Just Race: Being Black and Poor in the Inner City which examines the interaction of both social structure and culture. It would bea misinterpretation of Julius Wilson's work to claim it attributes the economic disparities exclusively to the class divisions of capitalist society (social relations of production). I also think that a self-enclosed system of activity and ideology can be terminated because of its own internal flaws and does not require external catastrophic collapse. For example,an economic model based on exploitation of natural and/or human resources could in no short time exhaust natural resources like timber, coal, and oil. Pollution would poison the air and water. The exploited workers would become sickly and the stagnant social structure would provide no incentives for creating new inventions in technology, science, and medicine. There are several examples of both non-European and European (agricultural and capitalist) societies that brought about their own demise.For example, the disappearance of the ancestral Anasazi people of Pueblo Bonito in New Mexico is thought to be the result of deforestration. > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 23:09:59 -0500 > From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com > To: ablunden@mira.net; xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity > > Andy, > > You address the points perfectly. I would like to add that in the case of haiti...the culture is a kreyol one that incorporated all the elements of the African tribes and the native tainoes into its conceptualization. This is why Dessalines called the island ayiti, its original taino name. This postmodern initiative of the maroon communities, newly arrived slaves, and field slaves was juxtaposed against the bourgeois eurocentric culture of the Affranchis, petit bourgeois blacks, house slaves, and mulatto elites who would seek to dominate the island with the assassination of dessalines on october 17th, 1806. It is within this cultural dialectical context that haiti must be understood. The vodou culture and kreyol of the masses juxtaposed against the french and eurocentric culture of the minority. In the case of black america, it is a class dialectical structure as william julius wilson points out (1978). As such, the black academic achievement gap is an epiphenomenon of this class division and the social relations of production not culture. > > > > > Sent from my Sprint tablet > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date:11/07/2013 10:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity > > Francine, > I don't think Paul's point is about "ethnic" differences, but so much as > about utilising forms of interaction which express fundamental relations > of the society of which they are a part, e.g., theories of education > which mirror theories of the organisation of production. But Paul will > correct me if I am wrong there. > And if there is a theory about exacerbating and polarising social > antagonisms in order to facilitate revolution, it may well be European > in origin, but it certainly did not originate from Hegel. And I don't > think it is Paul's point either. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong > here, too. It is more that only an extrernal catastrophic collapse can > terminate an otherwise self-enclosed system of activity and ideology. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > larry smolucha wrote: > > Message from Francine: > > I have been following the discussion of 'black underachievement'and have a few thoughts to share. > > (1) The overgeneralization inherent in the vary term 'black underachievement'is dismissive of black academic achievement. I would prefer to use the termblack academic achievement gap. > > (2) Polarizing the discussion into black vs. white, people of color vs. whites, colonialism vs. indigenous, capitalism vs. the oppressed, only exasperates antagonisms. [If one's agenda is to promote open conflict to achieve revolutionthat is one thing, and any discourse is actually a diatribe] > > Polarized thinking can help to define the thesis and anti-thesisin a dialectic but it will not in and of itself lead to any synthesis or emergent conceptual framework. Of course, the dialectical model I refer to is the Eurocentric, 19th Century thought of Hegel so it can be dissed on that basis. > > (3)The movement to identify the roots of indigenous non-Western cultures andbuild new emergent cultural frameworks to replace Western capitalism, colonialism,and all vestiges of any European culture is based on an illusion. It assumesthat indigenous culture has some ahistorical defining characteristics, andthat one can identify these if one goes back to the precolonial roots of the 'indigenous culture'. > > I think XMCA had brief discussion some time ago about the creation of nationalidentity or ethnic identity. This is such an emotionally charged topic for somepeople, that the very suggestion that cultures evolve is threatening.For example, the black population of Haiti is not the indigenous population ofHaiti and while most African slaves may have come from a specific part ofAfrica, they surely represented several different African tribal cultures. > > (4) Contemporary academic achievement require a specific skill set consisting of reading and writing literacy, basic to higher level math skills, computer literacy,basic to higher level scientific reasoning, and some knowledge of world history and humanities. What does this mean for indigenous people who did not have a writtenlanguage prior to contact with literate cultures (perhaps European, Arabic, Persian, Chinese)? > > For example, the Russians had no written language until the Byzantine missionaries,Saints Cyril and Methodius, formulated the Cyrillic alphabet for them. And, the Russiansof Eastern Europe where not one indigenous people but the Rus (the Norsemen fromScandanvia, i.e., Vikings) and the more indigenous Slavic populations.To be accuratethe Norsemen did use the Runes as script. [Oh, by the way the word slave derives from Slav because they were so frequently enslaved en masse during Turkish and TarTar invasions.] > > > > (5) My work on Cultural Synergy from a Vygotskian Perspective is ongoing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Fri Nov 8 02:22:22 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 05:22:22 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity Message-ID: Francine, I disagree with you on the reading of wilson in the 2009 text. Wilson is a strict structuralist...furthermore nature is an external source in the dialectic of capitalism or any means of organizing society. ?From adams on through the early 20th century, your reading of nature is not conceptualized within capitalist discourses...that is a more contemporary reading of nature, which is responding to the praxis of capitalism. ?As such, in your example, you juxtapose nature as having a metaphysical position that diametrically opposes the degradative and accumulative logic of capitalist discourse. ?This, for me, is an ontological position which is outside of the ontology of capitalist organization and praxis, nature is not convicting capitalist society for not identifying with its concepts and praxis it is rejecting it all together from an alternative discourse. ?The same logic holds true for your other examples vis-a-vis nature. ?As far as your worker example, their response is dialectical...as the 19th and 20th centuries in the US in particular have demonstrated, workers in their positions have sought MORE rights, I.e., health care, wages, education, not to get rid of the system. ..the two, nature and human, responses diametrically oppose one another. ?Nature is not looking for a middle ground its either change or die...the workers, conversely compromised for the welfare state. ?Nature's response is similar to the response of islamic fundamentalism!? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: larry smolucha Date: 11/08/2013 4:47 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity Message from Francine Smolucha: Paul, Is not kreyol itself derived from 18th century French?Doesn't this make the kreyol language and concepts expressed by means of it,a hybrid of European, West African, and Taino cultures? It would also be worthwhile for XMCARS following this thread to look at JuliusWilson's 2009 book More Than Just Race: Being Black and Poor in the Inner City which examines the interaction of both social structure and culture.? It would bea misinterpretation of Julius Wilson's work to claim it attributes the economic disparities exclusively to the class divisions of capitalist society (social relations of production). I also think that a self-enclosed system of activity and ideology can be terminated because of its own internal flaws and does not require external catastrophic collapse. For example,an economic model based on exploitation of natural and/or human resources could in no short time exhaust natural resources like timber, coal, and oil. Pollution would poison the air and water. The exploited workers would become sickly and the stagnant social structure would provide no incentives for creating new inventions in technology, science, and medicine. There are several examples of both non-European and European (agricultural and capitalist) societies that brought about their own demise.For example, the disappearance of the ancestral Anasazi people of Pueblo Bonito in New Mexico is thought to be the result of deforestration. > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 23:09:59 -0500 > From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com > To: ablunden@mira.net; xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity > > Andy, > > You address the points perfectly.? I would like to add that in the case of haiti...the culture is a kreyol one that incorporated all the elements of the African tribes and the native tainoes into its conceptualization.? This is why Dessalines called the island ayiti, its original taino name.? This postmodern initiative of the maroon communities, newly arrived slaves, and field slaves was juxtaposed against the bourgeois eurocentric culture of the Affranchis, petit bourgeois blacks, house slaves, and mulatto elites who would seek to dominate the island with the assassination of dessalines on october 17th, 1806.? It is within this cultural dialectical context that haiti must be understood.? The vodou culture and kreyol of the masses juxtaposed against the french and eurocentric culture of the minority.? In the case of black america, it is a class dialectical structure as william julius wilson points out (1978).? As such, the black academic achievement gap is an epiphenomenon of this class division and the social relations of production not culture. > > > > > Sent from my Sprint tablet > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date:11/07/2013? 10:25 PM? (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity > > Francine, > I don't think Paul's point is about "ethnic" differences, but so much as > about utilising forms of interaction which express fundamental relations > of the society of which they are a part, e.g., theories of education > which mirror theories of the organisation of production. But Paul will > correct me if I am wrong there. > And if there is a theory about exacerbating and polarising social > antagonisms in order to facilitate revolution, it may well be European > in origin, but it certainly did not originate from Hegel. And I don't > think it is Paul's point either. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong > here, too. It is more that only an extrernal catastrophic collapse can > terminate an otherwise self-enclosed system of activity and ideology. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > larry smolucha wrote: > > Message from Francine: > > I have been following the discussion of 'black underachievement'and have a few thoughts to share. > > (1) The overgeneralization inherent in the vary term 'black underachievement'is dismissive of black academic achievement. I would prefer to use the termblack academic achievement gap. > > (2) Polarizing the discussion into black vs. white, people of color vs. whites, colonialism vs. indigenous, capitalism vs. the oppressed, only exasperates antagonisms. [If one's agenda is to promote open conflict to achieve revolutionthat is one thing, and any discourse is actually a diatribe] > > Polarized thinking can help to define the thesis and anti-thesisin a dialectic but it will not in and of itself lead to any synthesis or emergent conceptual framework. Of course,? the dialectical model I refer to is the Eurocentric, 19th Century thought of Hegel so it can be dissed on that basis. > > (3)The movement to identify the roots of indigenous non-Western cultures andbuild new emergent cultural frameworks to replace Western capitalism, colonialism,and all vestiges of any European culture is based on an illusion. It assumesthat indigenous culture has some ahistorical defining characteristics, andthat one can identify these if one goes back to the precolonial roots of the 'indigenous culture'. > > I think XMCA had brief discussion some time ago about the creation of nationalidentity or ethnic identity. This is such an emotionally charged topic for somepeople, that the very suggestion that cultures evolve is threatening.For example, the black population of Haiti is not the indigenous population ofHaiti and while most African slaves? may have come from a specific part ofAfrica, they surely represented several different African tribal cultures. > > (4) Contemporary academic achievement require a specific skill set consisting of reading and writing literacy, basic to higher level math skills, computer literacy,basic to higher level scientific reasoning, and some knowledge of world history and humanities. What does this mean for indigenous people who did not have a writtenlanguage prior to contact with literate cultures (perhaps European, Arabic, Persian, Chinese)? > > For example, the Russians had no written language until the Byzantine missionaries,Saints Cyril and Methodius, formulated the Cyrillic alphabet for them. And, the Russiansof Eastern Europe where not one indigenous people but the Rus (the Norsemen fromScandanvia, i.e., Vikings) and the more indigenous Slavic populations.To be accuratethe Norsemen did use the Runes as script. [Oh, by the way the word slave derives from Slav because they were so frequently enslaved en masse during Turkish and TarTar invasions.] > > > > (5) My work on Cultural Synergy from a Vygotskian Perspective is ongoing. > > > > > > > > > >?????? > > > >?? > > ?? ? From ablunden@mira.net Fri Nov 8 02:27:43 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:27:43 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <527CBC9F.6020403@mira.net> :) That's rather funny (although also tragic!) andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: > .... Nature's response is similar to the response of islamic fundamentalism! > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Fri Nov 8 02:32:56 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 05:32:56 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity Message-ID: Francine for a more indepth look of my critique of both wilson and my view of nature as being an antidialectical response to capitalist organization see my work "liberal bourgeois protestantism: the metaphysics of globalization" (2012). Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: larry smolucha Date: 11/08/2013 4:47 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity Message from Francine Smolucha: Paul, Is not kreyol itself derived from 18th century French?Doesn't this make the kreyol language and concepts expressed by means of it,a hybrid of European, West African, and Taino cultures? It would also be worthwhile for XMCARS following this thread to look at JuliusWilson's 2009 book More Than Just Race: Being Black and Poor in the Inner City which examines the interaction of both social structure and culture.? It would bea misinterpretation of Julius Wilson's work to claim it attributes the economic disparities exclusively to the class divisions of capitalist society (social relations of production). I also think that a self-enclosed system of activity and ideology can be terminated because of its own internal flaws and does not require external catastrophic collapse. For example,an economic model based on exploitation of natural and/or human resources could in no short time exhaust natural resources like timber, coal, and oil. Pollution would poison the air and water. The exploited workers would become sickly and the stagnant social structure would provide no incentives for creating new inventions in technology, science, and medicine. There are several examples of both non-European and European (agricultural and capitalist) societies that brought about their own demise.For example, the disappearance of the ancestral Anasazi people of Pueblo Bonito in New Mexico is thought to be the result of deforestration. > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 23:09:59 -0500 > From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com > To: ablunden@mira.net; xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity > > Andy, > > You address the points perfectly.? I would like to add that in the case of haiti...the culture is a kreyol one that incorporated all the elements of the African tribes and the native tainoes into its conceptualization.? This is why Dessalines called the island ayiti, its original taino name.? This postmodern initiative of the maroon communities, newly arrived slaves, and field slaves was juxtaposed against the bourgeois eurocentric culture of the Affranchis, petit bourgeois blacks, house slaves, and mulatto elites who would seek to dominate the island with the assassination of dessalines on october 17th, 1806.? It is within this cultural dialectical context that haiti must be understood.? The vodou culture and kreyol of the masses juxtaposed against the french and eurocentric culture of the minority.? In the case of black america, it is a class dialectical structure as william julius wilson points out (1978).? As such, the black academic achievement gap is an epiphenomenon of this class division and the social relations of production not culture. > > > > > Sent from my Sprint tablet > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Andy Blunden > Date:11/07/2013? 10:25 PM? (GMT-05:00) > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The illusion of cultural authenticity > > Francine, > I don't think Paul's point is about "ethnic" differences, but so much as > about utilising forms of interaction which express fundamental relations > of the society of which they are a part, e.g., theories of education > which mirror theories of the organisation of production. But Paul will > correct me if I am wrong there. > And if there is a theory about exacerbating and polarising social > antagonisms in order to facilitate revolution, it may well be European > in origin, but it certainly did not originate from Hegel. And I don't > think it is Paul's point either. But Paul will correct me if I am wrong > here, too. It is more that only an extrernal catastrophic collapse can > terminate an otherwise self-enclosed system of activity and ideology. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > larry smolucha wrote: > > Message from Francine: > > I have been following the discussion of 'black underachievement'and have a few thoughts to share. > > (1) The overgeneralization inherent in the vary term 'black underachievement'is dismissive of black academic achievement. I would prefer to use the termblack academic achievement gap. > > (2) Polarizing the discussion into black vs. white, people of color vs. whites, colonialism vs. indigenous, capitalism vs. the oppressed, only exasperates antagonisms. [If one's agenda is to promote open conflict to achieve revolutionthat is one thing, and any discourse is actually a diatribe] > > Polarized thinking can help to define the thesis and anti-thesisin a dialectic but it will not in and of itself lead to any synthesis or emergent conceptual framework. Of course,? the dialectical model I refer to is the Eurocentric, 19th Century thought of Hegel so it can be dissed on that basis. > > (3)The movement to identify the roots of indigenous non-Western cultures andbuild new emergent cultural frameworks to replace Western capitalism, colonialism,and all vestiges of any European culture is based on an illusion. It assumesthat indigenous culture has some ahistorical defining characteristics, andthat one can identify these if one goes back to the precolonial roots of the 'indigenous culture'. > > I think XMCA had brief discussion some time ago about the creation of nationalidentity or ethnic identity. This is such an emotionally charged topic for somepeople, that the very suggestion that cultures evolve is threatening.For example, the black population of Haiti is not the indigenous population ofHaiti and while most African slaves? may have come from a specific part ofAfrica, they surely represented several different African tribal cultures. > > (4) Contemporary academic achievement require a specific skill set consisting of reading and writing literacy, basic to higher level math skills, computer literacy,basic to higher level scientific reasoning, and some knowledge of world history and humanities. What does this mean for indigenous people who did not have a writtenlanguage prior to contact with literate cultures (perhaps European, Arabic, Persian, Chinese)? > > For example, the Russians had no written language until the Byzantine missionaries,Saints Cyril and Methodius, formulated the Cyrillic alphabet for them. And, the Russiansof Eastern Europe where not one indigenous people but the Rus (the Norsemen fromScandanvia, i.e., Vikings) and the more indigenous Slavic populations.To be accuratethe Norsemen did use the Runes as script. [Oh, by the way the word slave derives from Slav because they were so frequently enslaved en masse during Turkish and TarTar invasions.] > > > > (5) My work on Cultural Synergy from a Vygotskian Perspective is ongoing. > > > > > > > > > >?????? > > > >?? > > ?? ? From ablunden@mira.net Fri Nov 8 21:11:58 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 16:11:58 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Search Engine for MCA etc Message-ID: <527DC41E.4010704@mira.net> Bruce Jones has installed a search engine for the LCHC site including the XMCA mail archive. The search page is http://lchc.ucsd.edu/search-lchc.html and it is linked from several places, including http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/index.html This should make it easier for people to find things in the various archives. Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Nov 9 09:52:57 2013 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 10:52:57 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Search Engine for MCA etc In-Reply-To: <527DC41E.4010704@mira.net> References: <527DC41E.4010704@mira.net> Message-ID: Andy, AWESOME! Also just wondering what the distinction is between "XMCA Discussion" and "XMCA Archive"? Are they the same thing? -greg On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Bruce Jones has installed a search engine for the LCHC site including the > XMCA mail archive. > The search page is http://lchc.ucsd.edu/search-lchc.html > and it is linked from several places, including > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/index.html > This should make it easier for people to find things in the various > archives. > > Andy > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From ablunden@mira.net Sat Nov 9 13:54:28 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 08:54:28 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Search Engine for MCA etc In-Reply-To: References: <527DC41E.4010704@mira.net> Message-ID: <527EAF14.2010709@mira.net> "XMCA Archive" is a slightly wider area, including the MCA journal, "papers" and so on, whereas "XMCA Mail Archive" is restricted to the archive of messages from this list only. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Greg Thompson wrote: > Andy, > AWESOME! > Also just wondering what the distinction is between "XMCA Discussion" > and "XMCA Archive"? Are they the same thing? > -greg > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Andy Blunden > wrote: > > Bruce Jones has installed a search engine for the LCHC site > including the XMCA mail archive. > The search page is http://lchc.ucsd.edu/search-lchc.html > and it is linked from several places, including > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/index.html > This should make it easier for people to find things in the > various archives. > > Andy > > From lchcmike@gmail.com Sun Nov 10 10:30:56 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 10:30:56 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Critical Early Learning In-Reply-To: <3BEDA47C-38BF-4ECA-8A65-6EBB134184ED@PDQ.NET> References: <52A981CF-9F8A-4835-AD2A-3EB9B78CE6D7@pdq.net> <3BEDA47C-38BF-4ECA-8A65-6EBB134184ED@PDQ.NET> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Frank Kessel Date: Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 9:14 AM Subject: Critical Early Learning To: Frank Kessel [image: The New York Times] ------------------------------ November 9, 2013 Oklahoma! Where the Kids Learn EarlyBy NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF TULSA, Okla. ? LIBERALS don?t expect Oklahoma to serve as a model of social policy. But, astonishingly, we can see in this reddest of red states a terrific example of what the United States can achieve in early education. Every 4-year-old in Oklahoma gets free access to a year of high-quality prekindergarten. Even younger children from disadvantaged homes often get access to full-day, year-round nursery school, and some families get home visits to coach parents on reading and talking more to their children. The aim is to break the cycle of poverty, which is about so much more than a lack of money. Take two girls, ages 3 and 4, I met here in one Tulsa school. Their great-grandmother had her first child at 13. The grandmother had her first at 15. The mom had her first by 13, born with drugs in his system, and she now has four children by three fathers. But these two girls, thriving in a preschool, may break that cycle. Their stepgreat-grandmother, Patricia Ann Gaines, is raising them and getting coaching from the school on how to read to them frequently, and she is determined to see them reach the middle class. ?I want them to go to college, be trouble-free, have no problem with incarceration,? she said. Research suggests that high-poverty parents, some of them stressed-out kids themselves, don?t always ?attach? to their children or read or speak to them frequently. One well-known study found that a child of professionals hears 30 million more words by the age of 4 than a child on welfare. So the idea is that even the poorest child in Oklahoma should have access to the kind of nurturing that is routine in middle-class homes. That way, impoverished children don?t begin elementary school far behind the starting line ? and then give up. President Obama called in his State of the Union address this year for a nationwide early education program like this, for mountains of research suggests that early childhood initiatives are the best way to chip away at inequality and reduce the toll of crime, drugs and educational failure. Repeated studies suggest that these programs pay for themselves: build preschools now, or prisons later . Because Obama proposed this initiative, Republicans in Washington are leery. They don?t want some fuzzy new social program, nor are they inclined to build a legacy for Obama. Yet national polling suggests that a majority of Republicans favor early-education initiatives, so I?d suggest that Obama call for nationwide adoption of ?The Oklahoma Project? and that Republicans seize ownership of this issue as well. It?s promising that here in Oklahoma, early education isn?t seen as a Republican or Democratic initiative. It is simply considered an experiment that works. After all, why should we squander human capacity and perpetuate social problems as happens when we don?t reach these kids in time? ?This isn?t a liberal issue,? said Skip Steele, a Republican who is a Tulsa City Council member and strong supporter of early education. ?This is investing in our kids, in our future. It?s a no-brainer.? Teachers, administrators and outside evaluators agree that students who go through the preschool program end up about half a year ahead of where they would be otherwise. ?We?ve seen a huge change in terms of not only academically the preparation they have walking into kindergarten, but also socially,? saidKirt Hartzler, the superintendent of Union Public Schools in Tulsa. ?It?s a huge jump-start for kids.? Oklahoma began a pilot prekindergarten program in 1980, and, in 1998, it passed a law providing for free access to prekindergarten for all 4-year-olds. Families don?t have to send their children, but three-quarters of them attend. In addition, Oklahoma provides more limited support for needy children 3 and under. Oklahoma has more preschools known as Educare schools, which focus on poor children beginning in their first year, than any other state. Oklahoma also supports home visits so that social workers can coach stressed-out single moms (or occasionally dads) on the importance of reading to children and chatting with them constantly. The social workers also drop off books; otherwise, there may not be a single children?s book in the house. The Oklahoma initiative is partly a reflection of the influence of George B. Kaiser, a Tulsa billionaire who searched for charitable causes with the same rigor as if he were looking at financial investments. He decided on early education as having the highest return, partly because neuroscience shows the impact of early interventions on the developing brain and partly because careful studies have documented enormous gains from early education. So Kaiser began investing in early interventions in Oklahoma and advocating for them, and, because of his prominence and business credentials, people listened to the evidence he cited. He also argues, as a moral issue, that all children should gain fairer access to the starting line. ?Maybe the reason that rich, smart parents had rich, smart children wasn?t genetics,? Kaiser told me, ?but that those rich, smart parents also held their kids, read to them, spent a lot of time with them.? I tagged along as a social worker from Educare visited Whitney Pingleton, 27, a single mom raising three small children. They read to the youngest and talked about how to integrate literacy into daily life. When you see a stop sign, the social worker suggested, point to the letters, sound them out and show how they spell ?stop.? Some of the most careful analysis of the Oklahoma results comes from a team at Georgetown University led by William T. Gormley Jr. andpublished in peer-reviewed journals. The researchers find sharp gains in prereading, prewriting and prearithmetic skills, as well as improvements in social skills. Some experts think that gains in the ability to self-regulate and work with others are even more important than the educational gains ? and certainly make for less disruptive classes. Gormley estimates that the benefits of Oklahoma?s program will outweigh the costs by at least a ratio of 3 to 1. So how about it, America? Can we embrace ?The Oklahoma Project? ? not because it?s liberal or conservative, but because it?s what is best for our kids and our country? I invite you to comment on this column on my blog, On the Ground. Please also join me on Facebook and Google+ , watch my YouTube videos and follow me on Twitter . MORE IN OPINION (8 OF 27 ARTICLES)News Analysis: Good Deals on Pills? It?s Anyone?s Guess Read More ? Close -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 583 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131110/ace2c3ca/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1877 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131110/ace2c3ca/attachment.gif From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Sun Nov 10 12:06:38 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 15:06:38 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Critical Early Learning Message-ID: <4byly7slav84c4mo4x4lhg30.1384113998690@email.android.com> I find it strange that education is always promulgated as the key to resolving social inequalities. ?However, the black/white academic gap is widest among black students from middle and upper middle class families vis-a-vis their white counterparts than it is between lower class blacks and their white counterparts? ?Furthermore, we academics tend to speak about poverty as though it is a natural phenomenon than can be broken by an individual social actor as opposed to poverty being a social construction that needs to be resolved with social policy, increased minimum wage, heavy and i mean heavy taxes on the wealthy, free access to medical health services, and free education. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: mike cole Date: 11/10/2013 1:30 PM (GMT-05:00) To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu,Ray McDermott ,Shirin Vossoughi Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Critical Early Learning ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Frank Kessel Date: Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 9:14 AM Subject: Critical Early Learning To: Frank Kessel [image: The New York Times] ------------------------------ November 9, 2013 Oklahoma! Where the Kids Learn EarlyBy NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF TULSA, Okla. ? LIBERALS don?t expect Oklahoma to serve as a model of social policy. But, astonishingly, we can see in this reddest of red states a terrific example of what the United States can achieve in early education. Every 4-year-old in Oklahoma gets free access to a year of high-quality prekindergarten. Even younger children from disadvantaged homes often get access to full-day, year-round nursery school, and some families get home visits to coach parents on reading and talking more to their children. The aim is to break the cycle of poverty, which is about so much more than a lack of money. Take two girls, ages 3 and 4, I met here in one Tulsa school. Their great-grandmother had her first child at 13. The grandmother had her first at 15. The mom had her first by 13, born with drugs in his system, and she now has four children by three fathers. But these two girls, thriving in a preschool, may break that cycle. Their stepgreat-grandmother, Patricia Ann Gaines, is raising them and getting coaching from the school on how to read to them frequently, and she is determined to see them reach the middle class. ?I want them to go to college, be trouble-free, have no problem with incarceration,? she said. Research suggests that high-poverty parents, some of them stressed-out kids themselves, don?t always ?attach? to their children or read or speak to them frequently. One well-known study found that a child of professionals hears 30 million more words by the age of 4 than a child on welfare. So the idea is that even the poorest child in Oklahoma should have access to the kind of nurturing that is routine in middle-class homes. That way, impoverished children don?t begin elementary school far behind the starting line ? and then give up. President Obama called in his State of the Union address this year for a nationwide early education program like this, for mountains of research suggests that early childhood initiatives are the best way to chip away at inequality and reduce the toll of crime, drugs and educational failure. Repeated studies suggest that these programs pay for themselves: build preschools now, or prisons later . Because Obama proposed this initiative, Republicans in Washington are leery. They don?t want some fuzzy new social program, nor are they inclined to build a legacy for Obama. Yet national polling suggests that a majority of Republicans favor early-education initiatives, so I?d suggest that Obama call for nationwide adoption of ?The Oklahoma Project? and that Republicans seize ownership of this issue as well. It?s promising that here in Oklahoma, early education isn?t seen as a Republican or Democratic initiative. It is simply considered an experiment that works. After all, why should we squander human capacity and perpetuate social problems as happens when we don?t reach these kids in time? ?This isn?t a liberal issue,? said Skip Steele, a Republican who is a Tulsa City Council member and strong supporter of early education. ?This is investing in our kids, in our future. It?s a no-brainer.? Teachers, administrators and outside evaluators agree that students who go through the preschool program end up about half a year ahead of where they would be otherwise. ?We?ve seen a huge change in terms of not only academically the preparation they have walking into kindergarten, but also socially,? saidKirt Hartzler, the superintendent of Union Public Schools in Tulsa. ?It?s a huge jump-start for kids.? Oklahoma began a pilot prekindergarten program in 1980, and, in 1998, it passed a law providing for free access to prekindergarten for all 4-year-olds. Families don?t have to send their children, but three-quarters of them attend. In addition, Oklahoma provides more limited support for needy children 3 and under. Oklahoma has more preschools known as Educare schools, which focus on poor children beginning in their first year, than any other state. Oklahoma also supports home visits so that social workers can coach stressed-out single moms (or occasionally dads) on the importance of reading to children and chatting with them constantly. The social workers also drop off books; otherwise, there may not be a single children?s book in the house. The Oklahoma initiative is partly a reflection of the influence of George B. Kaiser, a Tulsa billionaire who searched for charitable causes with the same rigor as if he were looking at financial investments. He decided on early education as having the highest return, partly because neuroscience shows the impact of early interventions on the developing brain and partly because careful studies have documented enormous gains from early education. So Kaiser began investing in early interventions in Oklahoma and advocating for them, and, because of his prominence and business credentials, people listened to the evidence he cited. He also argues, as a moral issue, that all children should gain fairer access to the starting line. ?Maybe the reason that rich, smart parents had rich, smart children wasn?t genetics,? Kaiser told me, ?but that those rich, smart parents also held their kids, read to them, spent a lot of time with them.? I tagged along as a social worker from Educare visited Whitney Pingleton, 27, a single mom raising three small children. They read to the youngest and talked about how to integrate literacy into daily life. When you see a stop sign, the social worker suggested, point to the letters, sound them out and show how they spell ?stop.? Some of the most careful analysis of the Oklahoma results comes from a team at Georgetown University led by William T. Gormley Jr. andpublished in peer-reviewed journals. The researchers find sharp gains in prereading, prewriting and prearithmetic skills, as well as improvements in social skills. Some experts think that gains in the ability to self-regulate and work with others are even more important than the educational gains ? and certainly make for less disruptive classes. Gormley estimates that the benefits of Oklahoma?s program will outweigh the costs by at least a ratio of 3 to 1. So how about it, America? Can we embrace ?The Oklahoma Project? ? not because it?s liberal or conservative, but because it?s what is best for our kids and our country? I invite you to comment on this column on my blog, On the Ground. Please also join me on Facebook and Google+ , watch my YouTube videos and follow me on Twitter . MORE IN OPINION (8 OF 27 ARTICLES)News Analysis: Good Deals on Pills? It?s Anyone?s Guess Read More ? Close From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Sun Nov 10 12:06:38 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 15:06:38 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Critical Early Learning Message-ID: <4byly7slav84c4mo4x4lhg30.1384113998690@email.android.com> I find it strange that education is always promulgated as the key to resolving social inequalities. ?However, the black/white academic gap is widest among black students from middle and upper middle class families vis-a-vis their white counterparts than it is between lower class blacks and their white counterparts? ?Furthermore, we academics tend to speak about poverty as though it is a natural phenomenon than can be broken by an individual social actor as opposed to poverty being a social construction that needs to be resolved with social policy, increased minimum wage, heavy and i mean heavy taxes on the wealthy, free access to medical health services, and free education. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: mike cole Date: 11/10/2013 1:30 PM (GMT-05:00) To: xmca-l@ucsd.edu,Ray McDermott ,Shirin Vossoughi Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Critical Early Learning ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Frank Kessel Date: Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 9:14 AM Subject: Critical Early Learning To: Frank Kessel [image: The New York Times] ------------------------------ November 9, 2013 Oklahoma! Where the Kids Learn EarlyBy NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF TULSA, Okla. ? LIBERALS don?t expect Oklahoma to serve as a model of social policy. But, astonishingly, we can see in this reddest of red states a terrific example of what the United States can achieve in early education. Every 4-year-old in Oklahoma gets free access to a year of high-quality prekindergarten. Even younger children from disadvantaged homes often get access to full-day, year-round nursery school, and some families get home visits to coach parents on reading and talking more to their children. The aim is to break the cycle of poverty, which is about so much more than a lack of money. Take two girls, ages 3 and 4, I met here in one Tulsa school. Their great-grandmother had her first child at 13. The grandmother had her first at 15. The mom had her first by 13, born with drugs in his system, and she now has four children by three fathers. But these two girls, thriving in a preschool, may break that cycle. Their stepgreat-grandmother, Patricia Ann Gaines, is raising them and getting coaching from the school on how to read to them frequently, and she is determined to see them reach the middle class. ?I want them to go to college, be trouble-free, have no problem with incarceration,? she said. Research suggests that high-poverty parents, some of them stressed-out kids themselves, don?t always ?attach? to their children or read or speak to them frequently. One well-known study found that a child of professionals hears 30 million more words by the age of 4 than a child on welfare. So the idea is that even the poorest child in Oklahoma should have access to the kind of nurturing that is routine in middle-class homes. That way, impoverished children don?t begin elementary school far behind the starting line ? and then give up. President Obama called in his State of the Union address this year for a nationwide early education program like this, for mountains of research suggests that early childhood initiatives are the best way to chip away at inequality and reduce the toll of crime, drugs and educational failure. Repeated studies suggest that these programs pay for themselves: build preschools now, or prisons later . Because Obama proposed this initiative, Republicans in Washington are leery. They don?t want some fuzzy new social program, nor are they inclined to build a legacy for Obama. Yet national polling suggests that a majority of Republicans favor early-education initiatives, so I?d suggest that Obama call for nationwide adoption of ?The Oklahoma Project? and that Republicans seize ownership of this issue as well. It?s promising that here in Oklahoma, early education isn?t seen as a Republican or Democratic initiative. It is simply considered an experiment that works. After all, why should we squander human capacity and perpetuate social problems as happens when we don?t reach these kids in time? ?This isn?t a liberal issue,? said Skip Steele, a Republican who is a Tulsa City Council member and strong supporter of early education. ?This is investing in our kids, in our future. It?s a no-brainer.? Teachers, administrators and outside evaluators agree that students who go through the preschool program end up about half a year ahead of where they would be otherwise. ?We?ve seen a huge change in terms of not only academically the preparation they have walking into kindergarten, but also socially,? saidKirt Hartzler, the superintendent of Union Public Schools in Tulsa. ?It?s a huge jump-start for kids.? Oklahoma began a pilot prekindergarten program in 1980, and, in 1998, it passed a law providing for free access to prekindergarten for all 4-year-olds. Families don?t have to send their children, but three-quarters of them attend. In addition, Oklahoma provides more limited support for needy children 3 and under. Oklahoma has more preschools known as Educare schools, which focus on poor children beginning in their first year, than any other state. Oklahoma also supports home visits so that social workers can coach stressed-out single moms (or occasionally dads) on the importance of reading to children and chatting with them constantly. The social workers also drop off books; otherwise, there may not be a single children?s book in the house. The Oklahoma initiative is partly a reflection of the influence of George B. Kaiser, a Tulsa billionaire who searched for charitable causes with the same rigor as if he were looking at financial investments. He decided on early education as having the highest return, partly because neuroscience shows the impact of early interventions on the developing brain and partly because careful studies have documented enormous gains from early education. So Kaiser began investing in early interventions in Oklahoma and advocating for them, and, because of his prominence and business credentials, people listened to the evidence he cited. He also argues, as a moral issue, that all children should gain fairer access to the starting line. ?Maybe the reason that rich, smart parents had rich, smart children wasn?t genetics,? Kaiser told me, ?but that those rich, smart parents also held their kids, read to them, spent a lot of time with them.? I tagged along as a social worker from Educare visited Whitney Pingleton, 27, a single mom raising three small children. They read to the youngest and talked about how to integrate literacy into daily life. When you see a stop sign, the social worker suggested, point to the letters, sound them out and show how they spell ?stop.? Some of the most careful analysis of the Oklahoma results comes from a team at Georgetown University led by William T. Gormley Jr. andpublished in peer-reviewed journals. The researchers find sharp gains in prereading, prewriting and prearithmetic skills, as well as improvements in social skills. Some experts think that gains in the ability to self-regulate and work with others are even more important than the educational gains ? and certainly make for less disruptive classes. Gormley estimates that the benefits of Oklahoma?s program will outweigh the costs by at least a ratio of 3 to 1. So how about it, America? Can we embrace ?The Oklahoma Project? ? not because it?s liberal or conservative, but because it?s what is best for our kids and our country? I invite you to comment on this column on my blog, On the Ground. Please also join me on Facebook and Google+ , watch my YouTube videos and follow me on Twitter . MORE IN OPINION (8 OF 27 ARTICLES)News Analysis: Good Deals on Pills? It?s Anyone?s Guess Read More ? Close From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Mon Nov 11 04:12:32 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:12:32 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: See you at: Lecture: The Case of Black Academic Under-achievement Message-ID: Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: Meetup Date: 11/11/2013 6:51 AM (GMT-05:00) To: pmocombe@mocombeian.com Subject: See you at: Lecture: The Case of Black Academic Under-achievement ? ? See you at Lecture: The Case of Black Academic Under-achievement Can you think of 1 person who should know about this Meetup? Simply forward this email to a friend. Saturday, November 23, 2013 at 2:00 PM African American Research Library & Cultural Center 2650 Sistrunk Avenue Fort Lauderdale, FL 33311 Directions ? Unsubscribe from similar emails from this Meetup Group Add info@meetup.com to your address book to receive all Meetup emails Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 Meetup HQ in NYC is hiring! meetup.com/jobs -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: meetup.ics Type: text/calendar Size: 1460 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131111/1256b92c/attachment.bin From mpacker@uniandes.edu.co Mon Nov 11 14:14:47 2013 From: mpacker@uniandes.edu.co (Martin John Packer) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:14:47 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning In-Reply-To: <4byly7slav84c4mo4x4lhg30.1384113998690@email.android.com> References: <4byly7slav84c4mo4x4lhg30.1384113998690@email.android.com> Message-ID: <83DC11A4-F5D4-4D55-BC02-A1D5BCD69D56@uniandes.edu.co> Looking back through old files I found a chapter I wrote over 10 years ago exploring some of these issues. In case some of you have nothing better to do on a three-day weekend I'm attaching it. Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Packer 2001 Cultural and critical perspectives on.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 323540 bytes Desc: Packer 2001 Cultural and critical perspectives on.pdf Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131111/581a04fc/attachment.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00001.txt Url: https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131111/581a04fc/attachment.txt From lchcmike@gmail.com Mon Nov 11 15:56:01 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:56:01 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Poverty and Cognition Message-ID: I have been looking for the attached article and a colleague on XMCA just sent it along. Seems to fit importantly into the discussion generated by the article under discussion. mike -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mani, Mullainathan et al Science august2013.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 326091 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131111/73601f72/attachment-0001.pdf From philchappell@mac.com Mon Nov 11 17:35:03 2013 From: philchappell@mac.com (Phil Chappell) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:35:03 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LCHC newlsetter archives In-Reply-To: <1F3A303FB8B8A9429CE2720B7C8D4B73405B81A8@BY2PRD0610MB354.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <527C27D0.6070501@mac.com> <1F3A303FB8B8A9429CE2720B7C8D4B73405B81A8@BY2PRD0610MB354.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Thanks David. I grabbed a copy of that from my library and scanned the chapter, in case the original LCHC issue can't be found. Downloadable from here http://goo.gl/BNeDcX Cheers Phil On 8 Nov 2013, at 2:17 pm, David H Kirshner wrote: > In case you can't find it, they published it (or a new version of it) a couple of years later. > > Still, A. & Costall, A. (1991). The mutual elimination of dualism in Vygotsky and Gibson. In A. Still & A. Costall (Eds.), Against cognitivism: Alternative foundations for cognitive psychology (225-236). New York: Harvester Wheatsheaf. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 6:22 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LCHC newlsetter archives > > Thanks for the heads up, Phil. We will go find the missing pages and make a new pdf. Such tips are really helpful. > mike > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Philip Chappell wrote: > >> After reviewing discussions on xmca from the distant past I found a >> lead to a paper that looked like it just might nudge me in the right direction. >> >> Still, A. & Costall, A., 1989, The mutual elimination of dualism in >> Vygotsky and Gibson, /Quarterly Newsletter of the Laboratory of >> Comparative Human Cognition/ (11), pp. 131-5 >> >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/oc89v11n4.PDF#page=25 >> >> Alas, pages 132-133 are missing. Would anyone happen to have this >> issue or this article or even these missing 2 pages? It would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Phil Chappell >> > > > From huw.softdesigns@gmail.com Tue Nov 12 06:06:33 2013 From: huw.softdesigns@gmail.com (Huw Lloyd) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:06:33 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] CHAT wiki Message-ID: Folks, A few of us have initiated a project to build a wiki centred around CHAT concepts. Before opening it up for wider use, it would be useful to have a small user base in order to work out some good use procedures (style, how to add comments and questions etc). If you're interested in helping at this stage, please email me. Best, Huw From enyedy@gseis.ucla.edu Tue Nov 12 10:26:00 2013 From: enyedy@gseis.ucla.edu (Noel Enyedy) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:26:00 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] UCLA qualitative methods position Message-ID: <2F69B326-D97E-4D93-87D4-362CEBA474A5@gseis.ucla.edu> Dear XMCA-ers: I hope some of you find this of interest. Noel University of California, Los Angeles Qualitative Research Methods in Education Assistant/Associate Professor The Department of Education in the Graduate School of Education and Information Studies at the University of California, Los Angeles announces an opening for a tenure-track position in Qualitative Research Methods. Candidates will be considered at the assistant/associate professor level. The successful candidate must have a program of research that utilizes qualitative methodology to address problems of education theory, policy, and practice in settings in and/or out of school, and that is deeply reflective about the methods themselves. We seek an individual who will serve as a core faculty member and add significantly to GSE&IS's qualitative methods program, and who will contribute scholarship to one or more of the Education Department's divisions and professional programs. Although the specific area of substantive research expertise is open, GSE&IS?s mission includes at its core addressing issues of education equity, diversity, and social justice. Individuals with a history of and commitment to mentoring students from underrepresented minorities are encouraged to apply. We are particularly interested in candidates with a strong grounding in qualitative research in schools and communities, who are engaged in innovative uses of qualitative methods and methodology that will complement and strengthen our existing scholarship in this area. These methods may include, but are not limited to: ? individual and focus group interviews ? ethnography (including digital ethnographic research) ? online/technology use analysis ? case study ? conversation analysis, interactional analysis and/or ethnomethodology ? discourse analysis ? observational techniques Responsibilities include: ? Teaching introductory and advanced courses in qualitative methods and courses in a substantive area of expertise. ? Collaborating with other GSE&IS faculty and UCLA faculty in related social science disciplines to strengthen the qualitative research program. ? Developing and maintaining a strong qualitative research agenda as evidenced by refereed publications and external and internal grant support. ? Mentoring graduate students, individually and in research seminars, in qualitative methods. ? Teaching in one of the GSE&IS professional programs (e.g., Teacher Education) or the undergraduate minor at UCLA. Qualifications: An earned doctorate in Education or a related field; record of research and scholarly publications consistent with the position and appointment level; and ability to teach and advise students at the graduate level. The successful candidate must have the promise of a strong qualitative research and grant record beyond that achieved to date, a willingness to collaborate on program development, and demonstrated commitment to diversity-related teaching, research, and service. For more information: Contact Professor Teresa L. McCarty, chair of the search committee, at Teresa.McCarty@ucla.edu. All inquiries will be kept confidential if desired. To apply: Apply online at https://recruit.apo.ucla.edu/ Job # JPF00114 with a cover letter describing your research and teaching interests, a curriculum vita, 2-3 sample publications, and 3 letters of reference. Hard-copy publications can be sent to: Suellen Coleman Attn: Qualitative Methods Search # JPF00114 UCLA Graduate School of Education and Information Studies 2320 Moore Hall, Box 951521 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1521 Salary: Commensurate with qualifications and experience. Starting Date: Appointment to begin July 1, 2014, with teaching duties beginning September, 2014. Deadline: All applications submitted by January 6, 2014, will receive full consideration. However, screening of applications will continue until position is filed. UCLA is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. We encourage applications from members of underrepresented groups. From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 00:05:58 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:05:58 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Paedology Message-ID: Estimate colleagues, I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique Is there an English version of those texts? Thank you very much. Wagner From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 00:05:58 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:05:58 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Paedology Message-ID: Estimate colleagues, I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique Is there an English version of those texts? Thank you very much. Wagner From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 00:05:58 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:05:58 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Paedology Message-ID: Estimate colleagues, I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique Is there an English version of those texts? Thank you very much. Wagner From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:19:50 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:19:50 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wagner Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can kindly share if possible? Thanks Ulvi Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit a ?crit : > Estimate colleagues, > > I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: > > La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie > Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines > De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique > > Is there an English version of those texts? > > Thank you very much. > > Wagner > > From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:19:50 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:19:50 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wagner Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can kindly share if possible? Thanks Ulvi Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit a ?crit : > Estimate colleagues, > > I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: > > La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie > Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines > De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique > > Is there an English version of those texts? > > Thank you very much. > > Wagner > > From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:19:50 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:19:50 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wagner Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can kindly share if possible? Thanks Ulvi Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit a ?crit : > Estimate colleagues, > > I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: > > La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie > Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines > De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique > > Is there an English version of those texts? > > Thank you very much. > > Wagner > > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:30:21 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:30:21 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Ulvi, Since these are unpublished translations, I still cannot share them. And I only have a partial translation in Portuguese made by a research group colleague. I was asking for a English version exactly because I want to share them with some colleagues. Wagner On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > Hi Wagner > Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can > kindly share if possible? > Thanks > Ulvi > > > > Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit a > ?crit : > >> Estimate colleagues, >> >> I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: >> >> La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie >> Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines >> De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique >> >> Is there an English version of those texts? >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> Wagner >> >> From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:30:21 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:30:21 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Ulvi, Since these are unpublished translations, I still cannot share them. And I only have a partial translation in Portuguese made by a research group colleague. I was asking for a English version exactly because I want to share them with some colleagues. Wagner On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > Hi Wagner > Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can > kindly share if possible? > Thanks > Ulvi > > > > Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit a > ?crit : > >> Estimate colleagues, >> >> I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: >> >> La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie >> Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines >> De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique >> >> Is there an English version of those texts? >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> Wagner >> >> From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:30:21 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:30:21 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Ulvi, Since these are unpublished translations, I still cannot share them. And I only have a partial translation in Portuguese made by a research group colleague. I was asking for a English version exactly because I want to share them with some colleagues. Wagner On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > Hi Wagner > Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can > kindly share if possible? > Thanks > Ulvi > > > > Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit a > ?crit : > >> Estimate colleagues, >> >> I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: >> >> La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie >> Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines >> De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique >> >> Is there an English version of those texts? >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> Wagner >> >> From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 03:36:26 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 13:36:26 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, unfortunately I myself do not know if they exist but more expert friends on Vygotsky may help. 2013/11/15 Wagner Luiz Schmit > Hello Ulvi, > > Since these are unpublished translations, I still cannot share them. > And I only have a partial translation in Portuguese made by a research > group colleague. > > I was asking for a English version exactly because I want to share > them with some colleagues. > > Wagner > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > Hi Wagner > > Do you have those texts in French in electronical format that you can > > kindly share if possible? > > Thanks > > Ulvi > > > > > > > > Le 15 novembre 2013 10:05, Wagner Luiz Schmit > a > > ?crit : > > > >> Estimate colleagues, > >> > >> I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: > >> > >> La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie > >> Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines > >> De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique > >> > >> Is there an English version of those texts? > >> > >> Thank you very much. > >> > >> Wagner > >> > >> > > From jussi.silvonen@uef.fi Fri Nov 15 04:18:01 2013 From: jussi.silvonen@uef.fi (Jussi Silvonen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 14:18:01 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, you can find some translation in Collected Works: Vygotsky, L.S. (1998) Pedology of the Adolescent. Selected Chapters. (Original 1930-31). In: Vygotsky, L.S. The Collected Works of L.S. Vygotsky. Volume 5: Child Psychology. Trans. by M.J. Hall. Prologue by C. Ratner. Editor R. W. Rieber. (pp. 3-184). New York, Plenum Press JusSi -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wagner Luiz Schmit Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 10:06 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; xmca-l@ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Paedology Estimate colleagues, I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique Is there an English version of those texts? Thank you very much. Wagner From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 06:40:27 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:40:27 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Jussi, These chapters are part of the material not published in the collected works. It seems that they were part of the original material where the chapters for the collected works were selected. Wagner On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Jussi Silvonen wrote: > Hi, > > you can find some translation in Collected Works: > > Vygotsky, L.S. (1998) Pedology of the Adolescent. Selected Chapters. (Original 1930-31). In: Vygotsky, L.S. The Collected Works of L.S. Vygotsky. Volume 5: Child Psychology. Trans. by M.J. Hall. Prologue by C. Ratner. Editor R. W. Rieber. (pp. 3-184). New York, Plenum Press > > JusSi > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 10:06 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; xmca-l@ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Paedology > > Estimate colleagues, > > I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: > > La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique > > Is there an English version of those texts? > > Thank you very much. > > Wagner > > From wagner.schmit@gmail.com Fri Nov 15 06:40:27 2013 From: wagner.schmit@gmail.com (Wagner Luiz Schmit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:40:27 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Paedology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Jussi, These chapters are part of the material not published in the collected works. It seems that they were part of the original material where the chapters for the collected works were selected. Wagner On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Jussi Silvonen wrote: > Hi, > > you can find some translation in Collected Works: > > Vygotsky, L.S. (1998) Pedology of the Adolescent. Selected Chapters. (Original 1930-31). In: Vygotsky, L.S. The Collected Works of L.S. Vygotsky. Volume 5: Child Psychology. Trans. by M.J. Hall. Prologue by C. Ratner. Editor R. W. Rieber. (pp. 3-184). New York, Plenum Press > > JusSi > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Wagner Luiz Schmit > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 10:06 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; xmca-l@ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Paedology > > Estimate colleagues, > > I met a french translation of some texts about paedology by Vygotsky: > > La p?dologie et les sciences voisines. La p?dologie et la psychologie Du probl?me de la p?dologie et des sciences voisines De l'analyse p?dologique du processus p?dagogique > > Is there an English version of those texts? > > Thank you very much. > > Wagner > > From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Nov 16 07:23:52 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:23:52 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities Message-ID: Dear all, I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already established practice in the best universities in the world to publish regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page of those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the best research universities). Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best universities in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in countries like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian countries. As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly applied example, please see that of the College de France. It is really an amazing practice: http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm#|q=../audio-video/_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots-cles...&fulltext=mots-cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY&fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 | Thanks Ulvi From amendelson@berkeley.edu Sat Nov 16 07:34:14 2013 From: amendelson@berkeley.edu (Adam Mendelson) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 07:34:14 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Berkeley has been doing it very several years. http://webcast.berkeley.edu/ Adam -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Ulvi I?il Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:24 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Course,seminar videos on the web sites of the universities Dear all, I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already established practice in the best universities in the world to publish regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page of those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the best research universities). Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best universities in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in countries like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian countries. As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly applied example, please see that of the College de France. It is really an amazing practice: http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm#|q=../audio-video /_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots-cles...&fulltext=mots -cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY&fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 | Thanks Ulvi From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Nov 16 07:43:27 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 17:43:27 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Adam! Excellent! 2013/11/16 Adam Mendelson > Berkeley has been doing it very several years. > http://webcast.berkeley.edu/ > > Adam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Ulvi I?il > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:24 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Course,seminar videos on the web sites of the > universities > > Dear all, > > I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already > established practice in the best universities in the world to publish > regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page of > those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the > best > research universities). > > Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best universities > in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. > > I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in countries > like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian > countries. > > As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly applied > example, please see that of the College de France. > > It is really an amazing practice: > > > http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm#|q=../audio-video > > /_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots-cles...&fulltext=mots > -cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY&fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 > | > > Thanks > > Ulvi > > > From ablunden@mira.net Sat Nov 16 15:39:44 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:39:44 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52880240.40403@mira.net> Ulvi, before I retired from Melbourne University in 2002, we installed a computer in every lecture theatre which automatically recorded every lecture and made it available as an audio download which enrolled students could listen to via the internet from home. We did not think it worthwhile to provide video, but some universities in Australia, e.g. UWA, provide videos as well, including the PowerPoint display. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Ulvi ??il wrote: > Dear all, > > I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already > established practice in the best universities in the world to publish > regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page of > those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the > best research universities). > > Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best universities > in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. > > I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in countries > like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian > countries. > > As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly > applied example, please see that of the College de France. > > It is really an amazing practice: > > http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm#|q=../audio-video/_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots-cles...&fulltext=mots-cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY&fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 > | > > Thanks > > Ulvi > > From ablunden@mira.net Sat Nov 16 15:39:44 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:39:44 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52880240.40403@mira.net> Ulvi, before I retired from Melbourne University in 2002, we installed a computer in every lecture theatre which automatically recorded every lecture and made it available as an audio download which enrolled students could listen to via the internet from home. We did not think it worthwhile to provide video, but some universities in Australia, e.g. UWA, provide videos as well, including the PowerPoint display. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Ulvi ??il wrote: > Dear all, > > I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already > established practice in the best universities in the world to publish > regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page of > those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the > best research universities). > > Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best universities > in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. > > I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in countries > like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian > countries. > > As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly > applied example, please see that of the College de France. > > It is really an amazing practice: > > http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm#|q=../audio-video/_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots-cles...&fulltext=mots-cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY&fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 > | > > Thanks > > Ulvi > > From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Sat Nov 16 15:44:13 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 01:44:13 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: <52880240.40403@mira.net> References: <52880240.40403@mira.net> Message-ID: Thanks Andy! 2013/11/17 Andy Blunden > Ulvi, before I retired from Melbourne University in 2002, we installed a > computer in every lecture theatre which automatically recorded every > lecture and made it available as an audio download which enrolled students > could listen to via the internet from home. We did not think it worthwhile > to provide video, but some universities in Australia, e.g. UWA, provide > videos as well, including the PowerPoint display. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > Ulvi ??il wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already >> established practice in the best universities in the world to publish >> regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page of >> those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the >> best research universities). >> >> Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best >> universities >> in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. >> >> I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in >> countries >> like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian >> countries. >> >> As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly >> applied example, please see that of the College de France. >> >> It is really an amazing practice: >> >> http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm# >> |q=../audio-video/_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots- >> cles...&fulltext=mots-cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY& >> fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 >> | >> >> Thanks >> >> Ulvi >> >> >> > > From vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp Sun Nov 17 14:04:56 2013 From: vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp (valerie A. Wilkinson) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:04:56 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] An Abstract Question Message-ID: <000c01cee3e1$0dc90e30$295b2a90$@shizuoka.ac.jp> Dear XMCA colleagues, Something like a year ago, we were having an interesting discussion which was quite a bit over my head. I apologize for clipping in the following bit without saying who said it, but perhaps my esteemed colleague recognizes his own words?: My note to myself says [a grain of sand in the oyster is the assertion by Scholar A that there are only two candidates for the "Ur-Act", the basic, elementary act of human intellectual life. He says, "I know of only two answers to this question, relevant to concepts. The abstract answer given by mediaeval logic, Linnaeus, the psychology of concepts, all the start of present-day continental philosophy is: pigeon-holing, The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory, Thomas Kuhn, and me is: problem-solving."] I couldn't work out what "pigeon-holing" is, so I didn't ask. Would it be a possible interpretation of these two answers to call them: Classification and Mapping? Or "sorting" and "trouble shooting"? "Indexing" and "pathfinding". I hate to display my woeful ignorance and I should have asked at the time, but I am unable to classify Kant, of whom I have only read bits, Merleau Ponty of whom I read Phenomelogy of Perception, on the continental side, and Peirce and Dewey of whom I have read a bit more on the other (obviously it is not about this or that side of the Atlantic, but.). Graduate school reading during one's pre-service education in philosophy and criticism, even if it is for a doctorate in comparative literature, leaves one "out there in the field" using what one learned at school to continue the study of the problems that life presents. Is "either/or" and preference a possible elementary act. Can sorting be done either mathematically (symbolic logic) or analogically (language), raising the digital vs. analog question? I wouldn't have dared ask this question last year, but the most recent conversations, about play and educational environment and praxis have brought out tons of extremely deep and learned discussion which I am trying to "grok". Existence or process. Difference. Indeterminacy and incompleteness. Abstract and applied. Valerie From ablunden@mira.net Sun Nov 17 14:52:46 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:52:46 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: An Abstract Question In-Reply-To: <000c01cee3e1$0dc90e30$295b2a90$@shizuoka.ac.jp> References: <000c01cee3e1$0dc90e30$295b2a90$@shizuoka.ac.jp> Message-ID: <528948BE.5040707@mira.net> I do recognise my own words in there Valerie, including the typo. :) I don't think it matters whether you call it classification, mapping, sorting or indexing, once you have recognised the object, if all that is at issue is which pigeonhole, class or map you put it into or point to, it's all the same. The fact that I can recognise the statue of the Virgin Mary outside the local Catholic Church as "the Virgin Mary" does not at all mean that I have the concept of "the virgin mary". The fact that when Barak Obama comes on tele I recognise him as President, does not mean I have the concept of president either. I might think that Joe Bloggs is a criminal, but the only characteristic of Joe that I could name to unambiguously justify my allegation is "criminality," so that would hardly clarify anything. (That's why police are not supposed to do "racial profiling".) The process of provisionally recognising something, and knowing "which box to put it in," is quite a different thing from constructing the boxes in the first place, and it is that latter process which, in my view, is the important one. That's one of the reasons that legislative bodies in every country in the world spend every day amending legislation, and have been doing that for centuries, not really because the community has changed its mind about something, but because bureaucratic procedures continually confound themselves with the task of putting people, situations and events in the right box, and the rules have to be continuously rewritten. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ valerie A. Wilkinson wrote: > Dear XMCA colleagues, > > > > Something like a year ago, we were having an interesting discussion which > was quite a bit over my head. I apologize for clipping in the following bit > without saying who said it, but perhaps my esteemed colleague recognizes his > own words?: > > > > My note to myself says [a grain of sand in the oyster is the assertion by > Scholar A that there are only two candidates for the "Ur-Act", the basic, > elementary act of human intellectual life. He says, "I know of only two > answers to this question, relevant to concepts. The abstract answer given > by mediaeval logic, Linnaeus, the psychology of concepts, all sorts of > present-day continental philosophy is: pigeon-holing, The concrete answer > given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory, Thomas Kuhn, and me is: > problem-solving."] I couldn't work out what "pigeon-holing" is, so I didn't > ask. > > > > Would it be a possible interpretation of these two answers to call them: > > Classification and Mapping? > > Or "sorting" and "trouble shooting"? > > "Indexing" and "pathfinding". > > > > I hate to display my woeful ignorance and I should have asked at the time, > but I am unable to classify Kant, of whom I have only read bits, Merleau > Ponty of whom I read Phenomelogy of Perception, on the continental side, and > Peirce and Dewey of whom I have read a bit more on the other (obviously it > is not about this or that side of the Atlantic, but.). Graduate school > reading during one's pre-service education in philosophy and criticism, even > if it is for a doctorate in comparative literature, leaves one "out there in > the field" using what one learned at school to continue the study of the > problems that life presents. Is "either/or" and preference a possible > elementary act. Can sorting be done either mathematically (symbolic logic) > or analogically (language), raising the digital vs. analog question? I > wouldn't have dared ask this question last year, but the most recent > conversations, about play and educational environment and praxis have > brought out tons of extremely deep and learned discussion which I am trying > to "grok". Existence or process. Difference. Indeterminacy and > incompleteness. Abstract and applied. > > Valerie > > > From vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp Sun Nov 17 15:24:46 2013 From: vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp (valerie A. Wilkinson) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:24:46 +0900 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: An Abstract Question In-Reply-To: <528948BE.5040707@mira.net> References: <000c01cee3e1$0dc90e30$295b2a90$@shizuoka.ac.jp> <528948BE.5040707@mira.net> Message-ID: <000d01cee3ec$34321ed0$9c965c70$@shizuoka.ac.jp> Thank you, Andy. Individually we have a conceptual tool-box for sorting and then there is the institutional level and the national and the transnational or global "tool box". At the individual level, my tool could be a Swiss Army Knife, but an international standard would look different and have various professional teams working out the precedents or applications in the present day. So individually we have to keep working on it and keep in touch with those who are working on it. Sort of. Thank you very much for the guided tour! Valerie -----Original Message----- From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:53 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: An Abstract Question I do recognise my own words in there Valerie, including the typo. :) I don't think it matters whether you call it classification, mapping, sorting or indexing, once you have recognised the object, if all that is at issue is which pigeonhole, class or map you put it into or point to, it's all the same. The fact that I can recognise the statue of the Virgin Mary outside the local Catholic Church as "the Virgin Mary" does not at all mean that I have the concept of "the virgin mary". The fact that when Barak Obama comes on tele I recognise him as President, does not mean I have the concept of president either. I might think that Joe Bloggs is a criminal, but the only characteristic of Joe that I could name to unambiguously justify my allegation is "criminality," so that would hardly clarify anything. (That's why police are not supposed to do "racial profiling".) The process of provisionally recognising something, and knowing "which box to put it in," is quite a different thing from constructing the boxes in the first place, and it is that latter process which, in my view, is the important one. That's one of the reasons that legislative bodies in every country in the world spend every day amending legislation, and have been doing that for centuries, not really because the community has changed its mind about something, but because bureaucratic procedures continually confound themselves with the task of putting people, situations and events in the right box, and the rules have to be continuously rewritten. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ valerie A. Wilkinson wrote: > Dear XMCA colleagues, > > > > Something like a year ago, we were having an interesting discussion > which was quite a bit over my head. I apologize for clipping in the > following bit without saying who said it, but perhaps my esteemed > colleague recognizes his own words?: > > > > My note to myself says [a grain of sand in the oyster is the assertion > by Scholar A that there are only two candidates for the "Ur-Act", the > basic, elementary act of human intellectual life. He says, "I know of > only two answers to this question, relevant to concepts. The abstract > answer given by mediaeval logic, Linnaeus, the psychology of concepts, > all sorts of present-day continental philosophy is: pigeon-holing, > The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory, Thomas Kuhn, and me is: > problem-solving."] I couldn't work out what "pigeon-holing" is, so I > didn't ask. > > > > Would it be a possible interpretation of these two answers to call them: > > Classification and Mapping? > > Or "sorting" and "trouble shooting"? > > "Indexing" and "pathfinding". > > > > I hate to display my woeful ignorance and I should have asked at the > time, but I am unable to classify Kant, of whom I have only read bits, > Merleau Ponty of whom I read Phenomelogy of Perception, on the > continental side, and Peirce and Dewey of whom I have read a bit more > on the other (obviously it is not about this or that side of the > Atlantic, but.). Graduate school reading during one's pre-service > education in philosophy and criticism, even if it is for a doctorate > in comparative literature, leaves one "out there in the field" using > what one learned at school to continue the study of the problems that > life presents. Is "either/or" and preference a possible elementary > act. Can sorting be done either mathematically (symbolic logic) or > analogically (language), raising the digital vs. analog question? I > wouldn't have dared ask this question last year, but the most recent > conversations, about play and educational environment and praxis have > brought out tons of extremely deep and learned discussion which I am > trying to "grok". Existence or process. Difference. Indeterminacy and incompleteness. Abstract and applied. > > Valerie > > > From ablunden@mira.net Sun Nov 17 15:47:48 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:47:48 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: An Abstract Question In-Reply-To: <000d01cee3ec$34321ed0$9c965c70$@shizuoka.ac.jp> References: <000c01cee3e1$0dc90e30$295b2a90$@shizuoka.ac.jp> <528948BE.5040707@mira.net> <000d01cee3ec$34321ed0$9c965c70$@shizuoka.ac.jp> Message-ID: <528955A4.4080401@mira.net> Apparentlt today is Vygotsky's birthday, so it might be an occasion to remember his words: "The structures of higher mental functions represent a cast of social relations between people. These structures are nothing other than a transfer into the personality of a inward relation of a social order that constitutes the basis of the social structure of the human personality." (LSVCW, v. 5, p. 169-70) Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ valerie A. Wilkinson wrote: > Thank you, Andy. Individually we have a conceptual tool-box for sorting and > then there is the institutional level and the national and the transnational > or global "tool box". At the individual level, my tool could be a Swiss > Army Knife, but an international standard would look different and have > various professional teams working out the precedents or applications in the > present day. So individually we have to keep working on it and keep in > touch with those who are working on it. Sort of. Thank you very much for > the guided tour! > Valerie > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:53 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: An Abstract Question > > I do recognise my own words in there Valerie, including the typo. :) > > I don't think it matters whether you call it classification, mapping, > sorting or indexing, once you have recognised the object, if all that is at > issue is which pigeonhole, class or map you put it into or point to, it's > all the same. > > The fact that I can recognise the statue of the Virgin Mary outside the > local Catholic Church as "the Virgin Mary" does not at all mean that I have > the concept of "the virgin mary". The fact that when Barak Obama comes on > tele I recognise him as President, does not mean I have the concept of > president either. I might think that Joe Bloggs is a criminal, but the only > characteristic of Joe that I could name to unambiguously justify my > allegation is "criminality," so that would hardly clarify anything. (That's > why police are not supposed to do "racial profiling".) > > The process of provisionally recognising something, and knowing "which box > to put it in," is quite a different thing from constructing the boxes in the > first place, and it is that latter process which, in my view, is the > important one. That's one of the reasons that legislative bodies in every > country in the world spend every day amending legislation, and have been > doing that for centuries, not really because the community has changed its > mind about something, but because bureaucratic procedures continually > confound themselves with the task of putting people, situations and events > in the right box, and the rules have to be continuously rewritten. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > valerie A. Wilkinson wrote: > >> Dear XMCA colleagues, >> >> >> >> Something like a year ago, we were having an interesting discussion >> which was quite a bit over my head. I apologize for clipping in the >> following bit without saying who said it, but perhaps my esteemed >> colleague recognizes his own words?: >> >> >> >> My note to myself says [a grain of sand in the oyster is the assertion >> by Scholar A that there are only two candidates for the "Ur-Act", the >> basic, elementary act of human intellectual life. He says, "I know of >> only two answers to this question, relevant to concepts. The abstract >> answer given by mediaeval logic, Linnaeus, the psychology of concepts, >> all sorts of present-day continental philosophy is: pigeon-holing, >> The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory, Thomas >> > Kuhn, and me is: > >> problem-solving."] I couldn't work out what "pigeon-holing" is, so I >> didn't ask. >> >> >> >> Would it be a possible interpretation of these two answers to call them: >> >> Classification and Mapping? >> >> Or "sorting" and "trouble shooting"? >> >> "Indexing" and "pathfinding". >> >> >> >> I hate to display my woeful ignorance and I should have asked at the >> time, but I am unable to classify Kant, of whom I have only read bits, >> Merleau Ponty of whom I read Phenomelogy of Perception, on the >> continental side, and Peirce and Dewey of whom I have read a bit more >> on the other (obviously it is not about this or that side of the >> Atlantic, but.). Graduate school reading during one's pre-service >> education in philosophy and criticism, even if it is for a doctorate >> in comparative literature, leaves one "out there in the field" using >> what one learned at school to continue the study of the problems that >> life presents. Is "either/or" and preference a possible elementary >> act. Can sorting be done either mathematically (symbolic logic) or >> analogically (language), raising the digital vs. analog question? I >> wouldn't have dared ask this question last year, but the most recent >> conversations, about play and educational environment and praxis have >> brought out tons of extremely deep and learned discussion which I am >> trying to "grok". Existence or process. Difference. Indeterminacy and >> > incompleteness. Abstract and applied. > >> Valerie >> >> >> >> > > > > From lchcmike@gmail.com Mon Nov 18 16:06:50 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:06:50 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> Message-ID: This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed might be of interest to several on the xmca list. mike On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: View this email in your browser [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' on Facebook] [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play'] [image: share on Twitter] The right to play The latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, play and recreational activities. The Right to Play explores issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the role of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in supporting children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child work, and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in Focus accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. Order a free printed copy , download the pdf or read online at issuu.com Read more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org A Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that matters *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New York, College of Staten Island, USA* Space to play: Experiences from S?o Paulo *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, Brazil* Enriching the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to promote child development at scale *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* You are receiving this email because you either are a partner organisation or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. *Our mailing address is:* Bernard van Leer Foundation Lange Houtstraat 2 The Hague, 2511 CW Netherlands Add us to your address book unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences [image: Email Marketing Powered by MailChimp] From bferholt@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 04:44:19 2013 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:44:19 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> Message-ID: Thanks Mike! Good timing: We just ended a great playworld conference here in J?nk?ping, Sweden based on the concern addressed in Comment number 17. I'll write the title of the conference below, in case any are interested, and the symbolic though/play topic came up several times at the conference, shaped by comments and readings that were posted on XMCA recently -- so Monica and I will bring these responses to the issue back to XMCA as soon as we catch our collective breath : ) . Beth *The Creation of an International, Interdisciplinary Research Network for the* *Study of the Relationship of Play and Learning through Playworlds:* *A Response to an International Shift in Focus towards Learning in Preschools* On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:06 AM, mike cole wrote: > This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed might > be of interest to several on the xmca list. > mike > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: > > View this email in your > browser< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=de08a7060b&e=9de75966bf > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=b0e30760b4&e=9de75966bf > > > [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' > on Facebook]< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&fblike=true&e=9de75966bf&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive2.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-like%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527 > > > [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right > to Play']< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&open_comments=true&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-comment%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527%26xid%3Dus2-1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b-7ec1ee59a5 > > > [image: share on > Twitter]< > http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FIeqxr&text=Now+available%3A+Early+Childhood+in+Focus+on+%27The+Right+to+Play%27+via+%40LisaBvLF&count=none > > > The right to play > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=2634018c6a&e=9de75966bf > > > The > latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with the > UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which > aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, > play and recreational activities. > > The Right to Play > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=cd17fcd2ff&e=9de75966bf > >explores > issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the role > of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in supporting > children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child work, > and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. > > Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in > Focus< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=54d6ef770f&e=9de75966bf > > > accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and > analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. > > Order a free printed > copy< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=80ba29abdb&e=9de75966bf > > > , download the pdf< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=bdf8e11090&e=9de75966bf > > > or read online at > issuu.com< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=3e5dace879&e=9de75966bf > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=1eb3ec8106&e=9de75966bf > > > Read > more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=8a06d38337&e=9de75966bf > > > A > Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that > matters< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=69b08e2b1e&e=9de75966bf > > > *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New > York, College of Staten Island, USA* > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=5969d72bc4&e=9de75966bf > > > Space > to play: Experiences from S?o > Paulo< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=a17028d116&e=9de75966bf > > > *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, Brazil* > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=c6bf2b84b6&e=9de75966bf > > > Enriching > the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to > promote child development at > scale< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=64d351e455&e=9de75966bf > > > *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla > Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 > Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you either are a partner organisation > or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. > > *Our mailing address is:* > Bernard van Leer Foundation > Lange Houtstraat 2 > The Hague, 2511 CW > Netherlands > > Add us to your address > book< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/vcard?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf > > > unsubscribe from this > list< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf&c=7ec1ee59a5 > > > update subscription > preferences< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/profile?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf > > > > > [image: Email Marketing Powered by > MailChimp]< > http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=monkey_rewards&aid=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&afl=1 > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor School of Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From bferholt@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 04:44:19 2013 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:44:19 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> Message-ID: Thanks Mike! Good timing: We just ended a great playworld conference here in J?nk?ping, Sweden based on the concern addressed in Comment number 17. I'll write the title of the conference below, in case any are interested, and the symbolic though/play topic came up several times at the conference, shaped by comments and readings that were posted on XMCA recently -- so Monica and I will bring these responses to the issue back to XMCA as soon as we catch our collective breath : ) . Beth *The Creation of an International, Interdisciplinary Research Network for the* *Study of the Relationship of Play and Learning through Playworlds:* *A Response to an International Shift in Focus towards Learning in Preschools* On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:06 AM, mike cole wrote: > This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed might > be of interest to several on the xmca list. > mike > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: > > View this email in your > browser< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=de08a7060b&e=9de75966bf > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=b0e30760b4&e=9de75966bf > > > [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' > on Facebook]< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&fblike=true&e=9de75966bf&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive2.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-like%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527 > > > [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right > to Play']< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&open_comments=true&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-comment%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527%26xid%3Dus2-1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b-7ec1ee59a5 > > > [image: share on > Twitter]< > http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FIeqxr&text=Now+available%3A+Early+Childhood+in+Focus+on+%27The+Right+to+Play%27+via+%40LisaBvLF&count=none > > > The right to play > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=2634018c6a&e=9de75966bf > > > The > latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with the > UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which > aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, > play and recreational activities. > > The Right to Play > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=cd17fcd2ff&e=9de75966bf > >explores > issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the role > of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in supporting > children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child work, > and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. > > Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in > Focus< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=54d6ef770f&e=9de75966bf > > > accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and > analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. > > Order a free printed > copy< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=80ba29abdb&e=9de75966bf > > > , download the pdf< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=bdf8e11090&e=9de75966bf > > > or read online at > issuu.com< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=3e5dace879&e=9de75966bf > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=1eb3ec8106&e=9de75966bf > > > Read > more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=8a06d38337&e=9de75966bf > > > A > Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that > matters< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=69b08e2b1e&e=9de75966bf > > > *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New > York, College of Staten Island, USA* > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=5969d72bc4&e=9de75966bf > > > Space > to play: Experiences from S?o > Paulo< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=a17028d116&e=9de75966bf > > > *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, Brazil* > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=c6bf2b84b6&e=9de75966bf > > > Enriching > the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to > promote child development at > scale< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=64d351e455&e=9de75966bf > > > *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla > Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 > Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you either are a partner organisation > or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. > > *Our mailing address is:* > Bernard van Leer Foundation > Lange Houtstraat 2 > The Hague, 2511 CW > Netherlands > > Add us to your address > book< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/vcard?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf > > > unsubscribe from this > list< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf&c=7ec1ee59a5 > > > update subscription > preferences< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/profile?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf > > > > > [image: Email Marketing Powered by > MailChimp]< > http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=monkey_rewards&aid=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&afl=1 > > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor School of Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From goncu@uic.edu Tue Nov 19 06:37:28 2013 From: goncu@uic.edu (Goncu, Artin) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:37:28 -0600 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> Message-ID: <8c45b676b80ee4b1437a7da43bf76a21.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu> Since I was involved in this project, I will be curious to see what y'all think about it.. Best, ag On Mon, November 18, 2013 6:06 pm, mike cole wrote: > This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed might > be of interest to several on the xmca list. > mike > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: > > View this email in your > browser > > [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to > Play' > on > Facebook] > [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right > to > Play'] > [image: share on > Twitter] > The right to play > > The > latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with the > UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which > aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, > play and recreational activities. > > The Right to Play > explores > issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the role > of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in > supporting > children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child work, > and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. > > Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in > Focus > accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and > analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. > > Order a free printed > copy > , download the > pdf > or read online at > issuu.com > > Read > more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org > > A > Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that > matters > *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New > York, College of Staten Island, USA* > > Space > to play: Experiences from S?o > Paulo > *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, > Brazil* > > Enriching > the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to > promote child development at > scale > *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla > Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 > Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* > You are receiving this email because you either are a partner organisation > or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. > > *Our mailing address is:* > Bernard van Leer Foundation > Lange Houtstraat 2 > The Hague, 2511 CW > Netherlands > > Add us to your address > book > unsubscribe from this > list > update subscription > preferences > > > [image: Email Marketing Powered by > MailChimp] > > Artin Goncu, Ph.D Professor, Educational Psychology College of Education M/C 147 1040 W. Harrison St. Chicago, IL 60607 http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm (312) 996-5259 From bferholt@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 08:13:20 2013 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 17:13:20 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: <8c45b676b80ee4b1437a7da43bf76a21.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu> References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> <8c45b676b80ee4b1437a7da43bf76a21.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu> Message-ID: I think it is wonderful to have such a powerful document that is so nuanced: I have already sent it to many, many teachers too, and the appreciation is great. Thank you! Beth On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Goncu, Artin wrote: > > > Since I was involved in this project, I will be curious to see what y'all > think about it.. Best, ag > > > On Mon, November 18, 2013 6:06 pm, mike cole wrote: > > This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed > might > > be of interest to several on the xmca list. > > mike > > > > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: > > > > View this email in your > > browser< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=de08a7060b&e=9de75966bf > > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=b0e30760b4&e=9de75966bf > > > > [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to > > Play' > > on > > Facebook]< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&fblike=true&e=9de75966bf&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive2.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-like%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527 > > > > [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The > Right > > to > > Play']< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&open_comments=true&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-comment%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527%26xid%3Dus2-1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b-7ec1ee59a5 > > > > [image: share on > > Twitter]< > http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FIeqxr&text=Now+available%3A+Early+Childhood+in+Focus+on+%27The+Right+to+Play%27+via+%40LisaBvLF&count=none > > > > The right to play > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=2634018c6a&e=9de75966bf > > > > The > > latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with > the > > UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which > > aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, > > play and recreational activities. > > > > The Right to Play > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=cd17fcd2ff&e=9de75966bf > >explores > > issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the > role > > of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in > > supporting > > children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child work, > > and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. > > > > Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in > > Focus< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=54d6ef770f&e=9de75966bf > > > > accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and > > analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. > > > > Order a free printed > > copy< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=80ba29abdb&e=9de75966bf > > > > , download the > > pdf< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=bdf8e11090&e=9de75966bf > > > > or read online at > > issuu.com< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=3e5dace879&e=9de75966bf > > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=1eb3ec8106&e=9de75966bf > > > > Read > > more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=8a06d38337&e=9de75966bf > > > > A > > Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that > > matters< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=69b08e2b1e&e=9de75966bf > > > > *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New > > York, College of Staten Island, USA* > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=5969d72bc4&e=9de75966bf > > > > Space > > to play: Experiences from S?o > > Paulo< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=a17028d116&e=9de75966bf > > > > *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, > > Brazil* > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=c6bf2b84b6&e=9de75966bf > > > > Enriching > > the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to > > promote child development at > > scale< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=64d351e455&e=9de75966bf > > > > *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla > > Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 > > Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* > > You are receiving this email because you either are a partner > organisation > > or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. > > > > *Our mailing address is:* > > Bernard van Leer Foundation > > Lange Houtstraat 2 > > The Hague, 2511 CW > > Netherlands > > > > Add us to your address > > book< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/vcard?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf > > > > unsubscribe from this > > list< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf&c=7ec1ee59a5 > > > > update subscription > > preferences< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/profile?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > > > [image: Email Marketing Powered by > > MailChimp]< > http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=monkey_rewards&aid=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&afl=1 > > > > > > > > > Artin Goncu, Ph.D > Professor, > Educational Psychology > College of Education M/C 147 > 1040 W. Harrison St. > Chicago, IL 60607 > http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm > (312) 996-5259 > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor School of Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 12:12:56 2013 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:12:56 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: References: <52880240.40403@mira.net> Message-ID: Ulvi, Yale has some great ones: http://oyc.yale.edu/courses I think Harvard and others do too. Here is my favorite Yale course: http://oyc.yale.edu/sociology (okay, it's the only one I've seen, but it is a goodie). -greg On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > Thanks Andy! > > 2013/11/17 Andy Blunden > > > Ulvi, before I retired from Melbourne University in 2002, we installed a > > computer in every lecture theatre which automatically recorded every > > lecture and made it available as an audio download which enrolled > students > > could listen to via the internet from home. We did not think it > worthwhile > > to provide video, but some universities in Australia, e.g. UWA, provide > > videos as well, including the PowerPoint display. > > > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > > > > > Ulvi ??il wrote: > > > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already > >> established practice in the best universities in the world to publish > >> regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web page > of > >> those universities ( and especially of those universities which are the > >> best research universities). > >> > >> Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best > >> universities > >> in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. > >> > >> I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in > >> countries > >> like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian > >> countries. > >> > >> As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly > >> applied example, please see that of the College de France. > >> > >> It is really an amazing practice: > >> > >> http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm# > >> |q=../audio-video/_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots- > >> cles...&fulltext=mots-cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY& > >> fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 > >> | > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Ulvi > >> > >> > >> > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From lchcmike@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 12:35:33 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 12:35:33 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [Air-L] Social Media Internship at Microsoft Research New England, Summer 2014 In-Reply-To: <60CC34B3B2ECF84A9EDD743AF64902653E09201C@TK5EX14MBXC264.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> References: <60CC34B3B2ECF84A9EDD743AF64902653E09201C@TK5EX14MBXC264.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Looks like fun and interesting opportunity for grad students. mike - * APPLICATION DEADLINE: JANUARY 31, 2014 * Microsoft Research New England (MSRNE) is looking for PhD interns to join the Social Media Collective for Summer 2014. We are looking primarily for social science/humanities PhD students (including communication, sociology, anthropology, media studies, information studies, science and technology studies, etc.). The Social Media Collective is a collection of scholars at MSRNE who focus on socio-technical questions. We are not an applied program; rather, we work on critical research questions that are important to the future of understanding technology through a social scientific/humanistic lens. MSRNE internships are 12-week paid internships in Cambridge, Massachusetts. PhD interns are expected to be on-site for the duration of their internship. Primary mentors for this year will be Nancy Baym and Kate Crawford. PhD interns at MSRNE are expected to devise and execute a research project during their internships. The expected outcome of an internship at MSRNE is a publishable scholarly paper for an academic journal or conference of the intern's choosing. The goal of the internship is to help the intern advance their own career; interns are strongly encouraged to work towards a publication outcome that will help them on the academic job market. Interns are also expected to collaborate on projects or papers with full-time researchers and visitors, give short presentations, and contribute to the life of the community. While this is not an applied program, MSRNE encourages interdisciplinary collaboration with computer scientists, economists, and mathematicians. We are looking for applicants to focus their proposals on one of the following eights areas: 1) The ethics and politics of big data, algorithms, and computational culture 2) Entertainment and news industries and audiences 3) Affective, immaterial, and other frameworks for understanding digital labor 4) Critical accounts of urban informatics and crisis communication 5) Personal relationships and digital media Applicants should have advanced to candidacy in their PhD program by the time they start their internship (unfortunately, there are no opportunities for Master's students or early PhD students at this time.) Interns will benefit most from this opportunity if there are natural opportunities for collaboration with other researchers or visitors currently working at MSRNE. Applicants from universities outside of the United States are welcome to apply. PEOPLE AT MSRNE SOCIAL MEDIA COLLECTIVE The Social Media Collective is comprised of researchers, postdocs, and visitors. This includes: - Principal Researcher Nancy Baym (http://www.nancybaym.com/) - Principal Researcher danah boyd (http://www.danah.org< http://www.danah.org/>) - Principal Researcher Kate Crawford (http://www.katecrawford.net/) - Senior Researcher Mary L. Gray (http://marylgray.org/) - Postdoctoral Researcher Megan Finn (http://meganfinn.org/) - Postdoctoral Researcher Jessa Lingel (http://jessalingel.tumblr.com/ ) Previous interns in the collective have included Amelia Abreu (UWashington, information), Jed Brubaker (UC-Irvine, informatics), Jade Davis (University of North Carolina, Communication), Scott Golder (Cornell, sociology), Germaine Halegoua (U. Wisconsin, communications), Tero Karppi (University of Turku, Media Studies), Airi Lampinen (HIIT, information), Jessica Lingel (Rutgers, library and information science), Joshua McVeigh-Schultz (Interactive Media, University of Southern California), Alice Marwick (NYU, media culture communication), Jolie Matthews (Stanford, Learning Sciences), Laura Noren (NYU, sociology), Jaroslav Svelch (Charles University, media studies), Shawn Walker (UWashington, information), Omar Wasow (Harvard, African-American studies), and Sarita Yardi (GeorgiaTech, HCI). For more information about the Social Media Collective, visit our blog: http://socialmediacollective.org/ APPLICATION PROCESS To apply for a PhD internship with the social media collective: 1. Fill out the online application form: https://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/jobs/intern.aspx Make sure to indicate that you prefer Microsoft Research New England and "social media" or "social computing." You will need to list two recommenders through this form. Make sure your recommenders respond to the request for letters so that their letters are also submitted by the deadline. You will need to include: a. A brief description of your dissertation project. b. An academic article you have written (published or unpublished) that shows your writing skills. c. A copy of your CV. d. A pointer to your website or other online presence (if available). e. A short description of 1-2 projects that you propose to do while an intern at MSRNE, independently and/or in collaboration with current SMC researchers. This project must be distinct from the research for your dissertation. This is important - we really want to know what it is you want to work on with us. We will begin considering internship applications on Feb 1 and will not consider late applications. PREVIOUS INTERN TESTIMONIALS "The internship at Microsoft Research was all of the things I wanted it to be - personally productive, intellectually rich, quiet enough to focus, noisy enough to avoid complete hermit-like cave dwelling behavior, and full of opportunities to begin ongoing professional relationships with other scholars who I might not have run into elsewhere." - Laura Noren, Sociology, New York University "If I could design my own graduate school experience, it would feel a lot like my summer at Microsoft Research. I had the chance to undertake a project that I'd wanted to do for a long time, surrounded by really supportive and engaging thinkers who could provide guidance on things to read and concepts to consider, but who could also provoke interesting questions on the ethics of ethnographic work or the complexities of building an identity as a social sciences researcher. Overall, it was a terrific experience for me as a researcher as well as a thinker." - Jessica Lingel, Library and Information Science, Rutgers University "Spending the summer as an intern at MSR was an extremely rewarding learning experience. Having the opportunity to develop and work on your own projects as well as collaborate and workshop ideas with prestigious and extremely talented researchers was invaluable. It was amazing how all of the members of the Social Media Collective came together to create this motivating environment that was open, supportive, and collaborative. Being able to observe how renowned researchers streamline ideas, develop projects, conduct research, and manage the writing process was a uniquely helpful experience - and not only being able to observe and ask questions, but to contribute to some of these stages was amazing and unexpected." - Germaine Halegoua, Communication Arts, University of Wisconsin-Madison "Not only was I able to work with so many smart people, but the thoughtfulness and care they took when they engaged with my research can't be stressed enough. The ability to truly listen to someone is so important. You have these researchers doing multiple, fascinating projects, but they still make time to help out interns in whatever way they can. I always felt I had everyone's attention when I spoke about my project or other issues I had, and everyone was always willing to discuss any questions I had, or even if I just wanted clarification on a comment someone had made at an earlier point. Another favorite aspect of mine was learning about other interns' projects and connecting with people outside my discipline." -Jade Davis, University of North Carolina, Communication _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ From fkessel@unm.edu Tue Nov 19 12:56:35 2013 From: fkessel@unm.edu (Frank Kessel) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:56:35 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> <8c45b676b80ee4b1437a7da43bf76a21.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu>, Message-ID: <31da44ab78154bdeba10f7f63b5cebf5@DM2PR07MB255.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Well, having once been associated with the Bernard van Leer Foundation, and in occasional contact with Lisa Jordan (current Exec Director), I'm she/they will be pleased by the positive response. And oh yes, I have a connection-of-sorts to a certain "ag" who was involved in the "Right to Play" project! :-) FK ________________________________________ From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of Beth Ferholt Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:13 AM To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' I think it is wonderful to have such a powerful document that is so nuanced: I have already sent it to many, many teachers too, and the appreciation is great. Thank you! Beth On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Goncu, Artin wrote: > > > Since I was involved in this project, I will be curious to see what y'all > think about it.. Best, ag > > > On Mon, November 18, 2013 6:06 pm, mike cole wrote: > > This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed > might > > be of interest to several on the xmca list. > > mike > > > > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: > > > > View this email in your > > browser< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=de08a7060b&e=9de75966bf > > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=b0e30760b4&e=9de75966bf > > > > [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to > > Play' > > on > > Facebook]< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&fblike=true&e=9de75966bf&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive2.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-like%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527 > > > > [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The > Right > > to > > Play']< > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&open_comments=true&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-comment%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527%26xid%3Dus2-1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b-7ec1ee59a5 > > > > [image: share on > > Twitter]< > http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FIeqxr&text=Now+available%3A+Early+Childhood+in+Focus+on+%27The+Right+to+Play%27+via+%40LisaBvLF&count=none > > > > The right to play > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=2634018c6a&e=9de75966bf > > > > The > > latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with > the > > UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which > > aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, > > play and recreational activities. > > > > The Right to Play > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=cd17fcd2ff&e=9de75966bf > >explores > > issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the > role > > of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in > > supporting > > children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child work, > > and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. > > > > Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in > > Focus< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=54d6ef770f&e=9de75966bf > > > > accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and > > analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. > > > > Order a free printed > > copy< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=80ba29abdb&e=9de75966bf > > > > , download the > > pdf< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=bdf8e11090&e=9de75966bf > > > > or read online at > > issuu.com< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=3e5dace879&e=9de75966bf > > > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=1eb3ec8106&e=9de75966bf > > > > Read > > more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=8a06d38337&e=9de75966bf > > > > A > > Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that > > matters< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=69b08e2b1e&e=9de75966bf > > > > *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New > > York, College of Staten Island, USA* > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=5969d72bc4&e=9de75966bf > > > > Space > > to play: Experiences from S?o > > Paulo< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=a17028d116&e=9de75966bf > > > > *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, > > Brazil* > > < > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=c6bf2b84b6&e=9de75966bf > > > > Enriching > > the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to > > promote child development at > > scale< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=64d351e455&e=9de75966bf > > > > *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla > > Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 > > Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* > > You are receiving this email because you either are a partner > organisation > > or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. > > > > *Our mailing address is:* > > Bernard van Leer Foundation > > Lange Houtstraat 2 > > The Hague, 2511 CW > > Netherlands > > > > Add us to your address > > book< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/vcard?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf > > > > unsubscribe from this > > list< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf&c=7ec1ee59a5 > > > > update subscription > > preferences< > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/profile?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > > > [image: Email Marketing Powered by > > MailChimp]< > http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=monkey_rewards&aid=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&afl=1 > > > > > > > > > Artin Goncu, Ph.D > Professor, > Educational Psychology > College of Education M/C 147 > 1040 W. Harrison St. > Chicago, IL 60607 > http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm > (312) 996-5259 > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor School of Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From ulvi.icil@gmail.com Wed Nov 20 04:18:50 2013 From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?VWx2aSDEsMOnaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:18:50 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Course, seminar videos on the web sites of the universities In-Reply-To: References: <52880240.40403@mira.net> Message-ID: Thanks Greg! 2013/11/19 Greg Thompson > Ulvi, > Yale has some great ones: > http://oyc.yale.edu/courses > I think Harvard and others do too. > Here is my favorite Yale course: > http://oyc.yale.edu/sociology > (okay, it's the only one I've seen, but it is a goodie). > > -greg > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Ulvi ??il wrote: > > > Thanks Andy! > > > > 2013/11/17 Andy Blunden > > > > > Ulvi, before I retired from Melbourne University in 2002, we installed > a > > > computer in every lecture theatre which automatically recorded every > > > lecture and made it available as an audio download which enrolled > > students > > > could listen to via the internet from home. We did not think it > > worthwhile > > > to provide video, but some universities in Australia, e.g. UWA, provide > > > videos as well, including the PowerPoint display. > > > > > > Andy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *Andy Blunden* > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Ulvi ??il wrote: > > > > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> I have a question about this subject: To what extent it is an already > > >> established practice in the best universities in the world to publish > > >> regularly the videos of important courses, seminars etc on the web > page > > of > > >> those universities ( and especially of those universities which are > the > > >> best research universities). > > >> > > >> Because, this practice is almost non existing in even the best > > >> universities > > >> in my country, only met very irregularly and randomly. > > >> > > >> I would like to know the situation in the leading universities in > > >> countries > > >> like USA, Germany, Australia, France and UK especially. Also in Asian > > >> countries. > > >> > > >> As an incredibly simple but well organized, useful and regularly > > >> applied example, please see that of the College de France. > > >> > > >> It is really an amazing practice: > > >> > > >> http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/audio-video/index.htm# > > >> > |q=../audio-video/_audiovideos.jsp?index=0&prompt=&fulltextdefault=mots- > > >> cles...&fulltext=mots-cles...&fields=TYPE2_ACTIVITY& > > >> fieldsdefault=0_0&TYPE2=0&ACTIVITY=0 > > >> | > > >> > > >> Thanks > > >> > > >> Ulvi > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Visiting Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From bferholt@gmail.com Wed Nov 20 04:28:33 2013 From: bferholt@gmail.com (Beth Ferholt) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 13:28:33 +0100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to Play' In-Reply-To: <31da44ab78154bdeba10f7f63b5cebf5@DM2PR07MB255.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> References: <1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b9de75966bf.20131118104526@mail180.wdc02.mcdlv.net> <98C8DC2F-807F-440D-84C1-2FA4CFC60BA3@pdq.net> <8c45b676b80ee4b1437a7da43bf76a21.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu> <31da44ab78154bdeba10f7f63b5cebf5@DM2PR07MB255.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Two more thoughts -- This is the first broad piece I have found to use in my classes teaching preschool teachers in Brooklyn who have come to CUNY from all over the world. This is also the first overview that does not mention children's views of play only-in-passing. THank you again for creating and sending! Beth On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Frank Kessel wrote: > Well, having once been associated with the Bernard van Leer Foundation, > and in occasional contact with Lisa Jordan (current Exec Director), I'm > she/they will be pleased by the positive response. And oh yes, I have a > connection-of-sorts to a certain "ag" who was involved in the "Right to > Play" project! :-) FK > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu > on behalf of Beth Ferholt > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:13 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The > Right to Play' > > I think it is wonderful to have such a powerful document that is so > nuanced: I have already sent it to many, many teachers too, and the > appreciation is great. Thank you! Beth > > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Goncu, Artin wrote: > > > > > > > Since I was involved in this project, I will be curious to see what y'all > > think about it.. Best, ag > > > > > > On Mon, November 18, 2013 6:06 pm, mike cole wrote: > > > This document on play in internation policy about early childhood ed > > might > > > be of interest to several on the xmca list. > > > mike > > > > > > > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Bernard van Leer Foundation wrote: > > > > > > View this email in your > > > browser< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=de08a7060b&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=b0e30760b4&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > [image: Like Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The Right to > > > Play' > > > on > > > Facebook]< > > > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&fblike=true&e=9de75966bf&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive2.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-like%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527 > > > > > > [image: comment on Now available: Early Childhood in Focus on 'The > > Right > > > to > > > Play']< > > > http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=7ec1ee59a5&open_comments=true&socialproxy=http%3A%2F%2Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%2Fsocial-proxy%2Ffacebook-comment%3Fu%3D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%26id%3D7ec1ee59a5%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fus2.campaign-archive1.com%252F%253Fu%253D1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b%2526id%253D7ec1ee59a5%26title%3DNow%2520available%253A%2520Early%2520Childhood%2520in%2520Focus%2520on%2520%2527The%2520Right%2520to%2520Play%2527%26xid%3Dus2-1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b-7ec1ee59a5 > > > > > > [image: share on > > > Twitter]< > > > http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FIeqxr&text=Now+available%3A+Early+Childhood+in+Focus+on+%27The+Right+to+Play%27+via+%40LisaBvLF&count=none > > > > > > The right to play > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=2634018c6a&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > The > > > latest issue of Early Childhood in Focus is published to coincide with > > the > > > UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's General Comment No. 17, which > > > aims to strengthen implementation of children's right to rest, leisure, > > > play and recreational activities. > > > > > > The Right to Play > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=cd17fcd2ff&e=9de75966bf > > >explores > > > issues such as the ways culture defines play in children's lives, the > > role > > > of play within early childhood pedagogy, the function of play in > > > supporting > > > children's development, the pressures of early schooling and child > work, > > > and the implications of commercialisation and new technologies. > > > > > > Published in collaboration with the Open University,Early Childhood in > > > Focus< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=54d6ef770f&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > accessibly reviews the best and most recent research, information and > > > analysis on key policy issues, offering clear messages for advocates. > > > > > > Order a free printed > > > copy< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=80ba29abdb&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > , download the > > > pdf< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=bdf8e11090&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > or read online at > > > issuu.com< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=3e5dace879&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=1eb3ec8106&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > Read > > > more about 'play' inearlychildhoodmagazine.org > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=8a06d38337&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > A > > > Vygotskian perspective on learning, culture and an education that > > > matters< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=69b08e2b1e&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > *David W. Kritt, Associate Professor, Education, City University of New > > > York, College of Staten Island, USA* > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=5969d72bc4&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > Space > > > to play: Experiences from S?o > > > Paulo< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=a17028d116&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > *Marco Figueiredo, Project Coordinator and Director of Ato Cidad?o, > > > Brazil* > > > < > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=c6bf2b84b6&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > Enriching > > > the home environment of low-income families in Colombia: a strategy to > > > promote child development at > > > scale< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=64d351e455&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > *Orazio Attanasio, Sally Grantham-McGregor, **Camila Fern?ndez, Emla > > > Fitzsimons, Marta Rubio-Codina and Costas Meghir* *Copyright ? 2013 > > > Bernard van Leer Foundation, All rights reserved.* > > > You are receiving this email because you either are a partner > > organisation > > > or opted in to receive email alerts for new publications. > > > > > > *Our mailing address is:* > > > Bernard van Leer Foundation > > > Lange Houtstraat 2 > > > The Hague, 2511 CW > > > Netherlands > > > > > > Add us to your address > > > book< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/vcard?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf > > > > > > unsubscribe from this > > > list< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf&c=7ec1ee59a5 > > > > > > update subscription > > > preferences< > > > http://bernardvanleer.us2.list-manage1.com/profile?u=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&id=26725bebcf&e=9de75966bf > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: Email Marketing Powered by > > > MailChimp]< > > > http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=monkey_rewards&aid=1a7225021ab28f04c08666f4b&afl=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Artin Goncu, Ph.D > > Professor, > > Educational Psychology > > College of Education M/C 147 > > 1040 W. Harrison St. > > Chicago, IL 60607 > > http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm > > (312) 996-5259 > > > > > > > -- > Beth Ferholt > Assistant Professor > School of Education > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > 2900 Bedford Avenue > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > -- Beth Ferholt Assistant Professor School of Education Brooklyn College, City University of New York 2900 Bedford Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu Phone: (718) 951-5205 Fax: (718) 951-4816 From Dana.Walker@unco.edu Wed Nov 20 06:30:53 2013 From: Dana.Walker@unco.edu (Walker, Dana) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:30:53 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] New publication: Melodies of Living In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >This is to announce the publication of a volume co-authored by Tania >Zittoun, Jaan >Valsiner, Dankert Vedeler, Joao Salgado, Miguel Gon?alves and Dieter >Ferring, presenting a sociocultural and dynamic perspective on the >development in the life course. > >http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/psychology/developmental-psy >chology/human-development-life-course-melodies-living > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Jacket.gif Type: image/gif Size: 18064 bytes Desc: Jacket.gif Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131120/17222cff/attachment.gif From lchcmike@gmail.com Wed Nov 20 07:53:26 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:53:26 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New publication: Melodies of Living In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Should be of great interest to all. Thanks for sending round. mike On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Walker, Dana wrote: > > > >This is to announce the publication of a volume co-authored by Tania > >Zittoun, Jaan > >Valsiner, Dankert Vedeler, Joao Salgado, Miguel Gon?alves and Dieter > >Ferring, presenting a sociocultural and dynamic perspective on the > >development in the life course. > > > > > http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/psychology/developmental-psy > >chology/human-development-life-course-melodies-living > > > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Wed Nov 20 08:18:44 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:18:44 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] New publication from routledge Message-ID: "Race and class distinctions within black communities: a racial caste in class" by Paul c. Mocombe, carol tomlin, and cecile wright http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415714372/? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? From lchcmike@gmail.com Wed Nov 20 09:40:55 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 09:40:55 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New publication from routledge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul- I have been wanting for some time to join the conversation initiated by the article for discussion at xmca. I greatly appreciate the way in which your work articulates with and extends different threads of long standing concern at lchc. Your book looks fascinating. I personally have been musing over your notions of a multi-cultural/multi-national middle/upper class that amplifies the inequalities generated by capitalism. I think we can all agree that constructivism is a mode of enculturation predicated on contemporary modes and relations of production -- it were ever so, capitialism or no, that schooling has played this role. And for sure, those of us writing in this medium who have these concerns are deeply implicated/complicit in the existence of the systems of governance and inequality we deplore -- a difficult truth. That problem, too, I hope the discussion you initiated will continue and perhaps amplify -- there are knowledgeable people out there in xmca-land who could contribute interesting thoughts if they can find the time. With respect to the new book, there is a real irony. At $125.00 it is out of the reach for many of the people who, I assume, you would like to see appropriate and use the ideas it contains. Contradictions all the way round. mike On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe < pmocombe@mocombeian.com> wrote: > "Race and class distinctions within black communities: a racial caste in > class" by Paul c. Mocombe, carol tomlin, and cecile wright > > http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415714372/ > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Wed Nov 20 09:56:06 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:56:06 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New publication from routledge Message-ID: Thanks mike for your insight...my conflicting ideas have come to light ever since the devastating earthquake that hit my country, haiti. ? As we try to rebuild the country the old contradictions between the mulatto, french speaking elites, the children of alexander petion, and the african, vodou practicing, and creole speaking masses, the children of dessalines have emerged. ?We fight over the meaning of education, what is development, what to teach the children, in what language, etc. Because I grew up in the states, These struggles have made me reevaluate a lot of academically taught preconceived notions and biases I have adopted from the West as the nature of reality as such. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: mike cole Date: 11/20/2013 12:40 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" ,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] New publication from routledge Paul- I have been wanting for some time to join the conversation initiated by the article for discussion at xmca. I greatly appreciate the way in which your work articulates with and extends different threads of long standing concern at lchc. Your book looks fascinating. I personally have been musing over your notions of a multi-cultural/multi-national middle/upper class that amplifies? the inequalities generated by capitalism. I think we can all agree that? constructivism is a mode of enculturation predicated on contemporary modes and relations of production -- it were ever so, capitialism or no, that schooling has played this role. And for sure, those of us writing in this medium who have these concerns are deeply implicated/complicit in the existence of the systems of governance and inequality we deplore -- a difficult truth. That problem, too,? I hope the discussion you initiated will continue and perhaps amplify -- there are knowledgeable people out there in xmca-land who could contribute interesting thoughts if they can find the time. With respect to the new book, there is a real irony. At $125.00 it is out of the reach for many of the people who, I assume, you would like to see appropriate and use the ideas it contains. Contradictions all the way round.? mike On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote: "Race and class distinctions within black communities: a racial caste in class" by Paul c. Mocombe, carol tomlin, and cecile wright http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415714372/? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? From ablunden@mira.net Wed Nov 20 17:39:42 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:39:42 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Makarenko Message-ID: <528D645E.5090008@mira.net> For those of you who may be interested, three new books by Anton Makarenko have been added to the "Marxism and Education" section of marxists.org: http://www.marxists.org/subject/education/index.htm Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ From daviddpreiss@gmail.com Fri Nov 22 08:39:20 2013 From: daviddpreiss@gmail.com (David Preiss) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 13:39:20 -0300 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] 14th International Summer School and Symposium on Humour and Laughter, University of Sheffield References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Elena Hoicka > Subject: [COGDEVSOC] 14th International Summer School and Symposium on Humour and Laughter, University of Sheffield > Date: November 22, 2013 11:26:58 AM GMT-03:00 > To: cogdevsoc@virginia.edu > > 14th International > Summer School and Symposium on Humour and Laughter > > July 14 - 19, 2014 > > University of Sheffield, England, United Kingdom > > http://www.humoursummerschool.org/14 > > Endorsed by the International Society for Humour Studies (ISHS) the International Summer School and Symposium on Humour and Laughter is a one-week intensive course on all aspects of humour: theory, research and applications. > > It offers presentations and workshops by leading scholars in the field, including developmental psychology. As the course is primarily aimed at those who are at an early stage of exploring humour, most of the participants are research students, but the material is also suitable for more established scholars, for example if they are moving into the area of humour from another discipline. > > The Symposium takes place during the week, and is an opportunity for the participants to present their own work and receive feedback. In addition, provision is made for participants to make appointments with the lecturers to receive one-to-one consultations about their work. > > The Summer School and Symposium was founded in 2001 at Queen's University in Belfast by Professor Willibald Ruch, who oversees the event every year. It has been held all over Europe: Edinburgh (UK), Wolverhampton (UK), T?bingen(Germany), Fribourg (Switzerland), Aberdeen (UK), Gala?i (Romania), Granada (Spain), Z?rich (Switzerland), Tartu (Estonia), Savonlinna (Finland), Magdeburg (Germany). > > In addition to Prof. Ruch, past lecturers at the Summer School have included: Salvatore Attardo, Christie Davies, Jessica Milner Davis, Christian Hempelmann, > Giselinde Kuipers, Paul Lewis, Rod Martin, Paul McGhee, John Morreall, Neal Norrick, Elliott Oring, Graeme Ritchie. > > The Summer School and Symposium is managed by an Advisory Board, along with Dr. Elena Hoicka, this year's local organiser. > > If you are interested in more information or attending, please contact: organiser14@humoursummerschool.org > =========== > To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@virginia.edu > (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your > message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) > > To leave the CDS listserv, send a message to sympa@virginia.edu. > The subject line should read: "unsubscribe cogdevsoc" (no quotes). > Leave the message body blank. > > For other information about the listserv, including how to update your email > address and how to subscribe, visit http://www.cogdevsoc.org/listserv.php > ============ > > > > From pfarruggio@utpa.edu Fri Nov 22 10:06:57 2013 From: pfarruggio@utpa.edu (Peter Farruggio) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 18:06:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] coming up short-material reality and consciousness formation Message-ID: <61A61D2350EA0A429838AFA91283E559685E11D5@cc-infdbmbx5.ds.utpa.edu> INTERESTING SOCIOLOGICAL STUDY WITH 100 WORKING CLASS YOUNG ADULTS THAT ILLUSTRATES HOW CONSCIOUSNESS AND SENSIBILITIES ARE SHAPED BY MATERIAL REALITY, THE SOCIAL, ECONOMIC, AND POLITICAL CONDITIONS OF THE SOCIETY IN THE PARTICULAR HISTORICAL PERIOD WHICH WE GROW UP. VERY NON-POSTMODERNIST. I WOULD ADD THAT IT PRESENTS THE RESULTS OF THE HEGEMONIC TRIUMPH (SO FAR) OF THE US RULING CLASS, WITH ITS INCESSANT BOMBARDMENT OF INDIVIDUALISTIC IDEOLOGY THROUGH ALL BRANCHES OF CORPORATE-CONTROLLED MEDIA Coming Up Short: Working-Class Adulthood in an Age of Uncertainty Hardcover by Jennifer M. Silva (Nov 22 interview with Jennifer Silva can be heard on Doug Henwood's radio show ?Behind the News? at http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/97383) What does it mean to grow up today as working-class young adults? How does the economic and social instability left in the wake of neoliberalism shape their identities, their understandings of the American Dream, and their futures? Coming Up Short illuminates the transition to adulthood for working-class men and women. Moving away from easy labels such as the "Peter Pan generation," Jennifer Silva reveals the far bleaker picture of how the erosion of traditional markers of adulthood-marriage, a steady job, a house of one's own-has changed what it means to grow up as part of the post-industrial working class. Based on one hundred interviews with working-class people in two towns-Lowell, Massachusetts, and Richmond, Virginia-Silva sheds light on their experience of heightened economic insecurity, deepening inequality, and uncertainty about marriage and family. Silva argues that, for these men and women, coming of age means coming to terms with the absence of choice. As possibilities and hope contract, moving into adulthood has been re-defined as a process of personal struggle-an adult is no longer someone with a small home and a reliable car, but someone who has faced and overcome personal demons to reconstruct a transformed self. Indeed, rather than turn to politics to restore the traditional working class, this generation builds meaning and dignity through the struggle to exorcise the demons of familial abuse, mental health problems, addiction, or betrayal in past relationships. This dramatic and largely unnoticed shift reduces becoming an adult to solitary suffering, self-blame, and an endless seeking for signs of progress. This powerfully written book focuses on those who are most vulnerable-young, working-class people, including African-Americans, women, and single parents-and reveals what, in very real terms, the demise of the social safety net means to their fragile hold on the American Dream. ******************************************************************** Cogent review by novelist Phil Terrana at Amazon.com: Struggling in the modern world, August 9, 2013 ? One cannot help but be aware of the big problems facing this nation and the even bigger debate going on to find solutions to these problems. At the core of the struggle are those individuals and families trying to hold on to what they have acquired in the face of lost jobs and a collapsing housing market; and the 20 and 30-year olds trying to stake their place in the American economy. In regard to the younger generation, "Coming Up Short" adds greatly to the debate by putting human faces on the problem. The people Jennifer Silva interviewed face a myriad of problems--some the result of their doings and some through no fault of their own. What they all seem to share is a belief that they must endure these struggles alone. They have lost faith in the idea of a common struggle because time and again society (whether it be the job market, education, the military, the government or even their own families) has let them down. They have chosen to go it alone because they think it is their only choice. Their parent and grandparents grew up in societies with more effective safety nets and took advantage of them. The people Silva interviews are not lazy, ignorant, or unmotivated. In overcoming their own demons, they demonstrate personal strengths that have throughout our history been the cornerstone to our success. What holds them back is a thirty-year movement that seems to push the idea that successful people do it on their own. For 30 years we have worried about investors and have let workers fall by the wayside. Those already in the workforce during this period have, by making adjustments, been able to survive this assault although they won't come away unscathed. This book, on a very personal level, demonstrates what those trying to get into the game are going up against. As a nation we must stop looking at issues of living wages, deregulation, universal health care, student loans, and a whole host of others from a strictly cost effective point of view. Jennifer Silva drives home very well the point that there are real people at the heart of all these issues. From pfarruggio@utpa.edu Fri Nov 22 10:06:57 2013 From: pfarruggio@utpa.edu (Peter Farruggio) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 18:06:57 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] coming up short-material reality and consciousness formation Message-ID: <61A61D2350EA0A429838AFA91283E559685E11D5@cc-infdbmbx5.ds.utpa.edu> INTERESTING SOCIOLOGICAL STUDY WITH 100 WORKING CLASS YOUNG ADULTS THAT ILLUSTRATES HOW CONSCIOUSNESS AND SENSIBILITIES ARE SHAPED BY MATERIAL REALITY, THE SOCIAL, ECONOMIC, AND POLITICAL CONDITIONS OF THE SOCIETY IN THE PARTICULAR HISTORICAL PERIOD WHICH WE GROW UP. VERY NON-POSTMODERNIST. I WOULD ADD THAT IT PRESENTS THE RESULTS OF THE HEGEMONIC TRIUMPH (SO FAR) OF THE US RULING CLASS, WITH ITS INCESSANT BOMBARDMENT OF INDIVIDUALISTIC IDEOLOGY THROUGH ALL BRANCHES OF CORPORATE-CONTROLLED MEDIA Coming Up Short: Working-Class Adulthood in an Age of Uncertainty Hardcover by Jennifer M. Silva (Nov 22 interview with Jennifer Silva can be heard on Doug Henwood's radio show ?Behind the News? at http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/97383) What does it mean to grow up today as working-class young adults? How does the economic and social instability left in the wake of neoliberalism shape their identities, their understandings of the American Dream, and their futures? Coming Up Short illuminates the transition to adulthood for working-class men and women. Moving away from easy labels such as the "Peter Pan generation," Jennifer Silva reveals the far bleaker picture of how the erosion of traditional markers of adulthood-marriage, a steady job, a house of one's own-has changed what it means to grow up as part of the post-industrial working class. Based on one hundred interviews with working-class people in two towns-Lowell, Massachusetts, and Richmond, Virginia-Silva sheds light on their experience of heightened economic insecurity, deepening inequality, and uncertainty about marriage and family. Silva argues that, for these men and women, coming of age means coming to terms with the absence of choice. As possibilities and hope contract, moving into adulthood has been re-defined as a process of personal struggle-an adult is no longer someone with a small home and a reliable car, but someone who has faced and overcome personal demons to reconstruct a transformed self. Indeed, rather than turn to politics to restore the traditional working class, this generation builds meaning and dignity through the struggle to exorcise the demons of familial abuse, mental health problems, addiction, or betrayal in past relationships. This dramatic and largely unnoticed shift reduces becoming an adult to solitary suffering, self-blame, and an endless seeking for signs of progress. This powerfully written book focuses on those who are most vulnerable-young, working-class people, including African-Americans, women, and single parents-and reveals what, in very real terms, the demise of the social safety net means to their fragile hold on the American Dream. ******************************************************************** Cogent review by novelist Phil Terrana at Amazon.com: Struggling in the modern world, August 9, 2013 ? One cannot help but be aware of the big problems facing this nation and the even bigger debate going on to find solutions to these problems. At the core of the struggle are those individuals and families trying to hold on to what they have acquired in the face of lost jobs and a collapsing housing market; and the 20 and 30-year olds trying to stake their place in the American economy. In regard to the younger generation, "Coming Up Short" adds greatly to the debate by putting human faces on the problem. The people Jennifer Silva interviewed face a myriad of problems--some the result of their doings and some through no fault of their own. What they all seem to share is a belief that they must endure these struggles alone. They have lost faith in the idea of a common struggle because time and again society (whether it be the job market, education, the military, the government or even their own families) has let them down. They have chosen to go it alone because they think it is their only choice. Their parent and grandparents grew up in societies with more effective safety nets and took advantage of them. The people Silva interviews are not lazy, ignorant, or unmotivated. In overcoming their own demons, they demonstrate personal strengths that have throughout our history been the cornerstone to our success. What holds them back is a thirty-year movement that seems to push the idea that successful people do it on their own. For 30 years we have worried about investors and have let workers fall by the wayside. Those already in the workforce during this period have, by making adjustments, been able to survive this assault although they won't come away unscathed. This book, on a very personal level, demonstrates what those trying to get into the game are going up against. As a nation we must stop looking at issues of living wages, deregulation, universal health care, student loans, and a whole host of others from a strictly cost effective point of view. Jennifer Silva drives home very well the point that there are real people at the heart of all these issues. From anamshane@gmail.com Sun Nov 24 19:30:27 2013 From: anamshane@gmail.com (Ana Marjanovic-Shane) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:30:27 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] "Like" the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal" Facebook page!! Message-ID: <5469E3CA-35FF-49D5-9F72-595C5A5C5801@gmail.com> Dear XMCA-ers, Some of you are probably familiar with the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/DialogicPedagogyJournal). "Like" this page on the Facebook if you are interested in discussions on Dialogic Pedagogy issues. You will be notified when something is posted there, and you are welcome to post and respond as you see fit. These posts are also linked and published on DPJ Twitter: https://twitter.com/DPJournal_ Here is a small selection of the latest posts: DPJ: "Objective" means "deadly" (i.e., without an alive subjectivity). DPJ: #Cohen, L.: "The developmental view of play, according to #Sutton-Smith, 'is an ideology for the conquest of children?s behavior through organizing their play' (2001, 205). In contrast, a Bakhtinian carnivalesque perspective of play and language examines self in the relation to the language and actions of others" (2011, 177) DPJ: Crisis of conventional schooling. Many people claim that there is school crisis but they cite different evidence for this: Evidence: Low test scores. Remedy: Teach to the test. Evidence: Alumni don?t remember much after school graduation. Remedy: Improve memorization. Evidence: High dropout rate. Remedy: Keep students in school by rewards and punishments. Evidence: Lack of conceptual understanding. Remedy: Promote students? interested questions. Evidence: Alienation. Remedy: Engage students in defining curriculum. Evidence: Lack of studies. Remedy: Pay students for their learning. Evidence: Lack of ownership for their learning. Remedy: Promote students? authorial agency. Evidence: Lack of cooperation with the teachers? demands. Remedy: A system of rewards and punishments. Evidence: School violence. Remedy: Forced exclusion. Other definitions of school crisis? *** To see comments on these postings, please go to the Facebook page. Do you think that there is an intersection of relevant topics between XMCA and DPJ? Ana From lchcmike@gmail.com Sun Nov 24 19:55:46 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 19:55:46 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Like" the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal" Facebook page!! In-Reply-To: <5469E3CA-35FF-49D5-9F72-595C5A5C5801@gmail.com> References: <5469E3CA-35FF-49D5-9F72-595C5A5C5801@gmail.com> Message-ID: yes? mike On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > Dear XMCA-ers, > > Some of you are probably familiar with the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal on > Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/DialogicPedagogyJournal). "Like" this > page on the Facebook if you are interested in discussions on Dialogic > Pedagogy issues. You will be notified when something is posted there, and > you are welcome to post and respond as you see fit. > These posts are also linked and published on DPJ Twitter: > https://twitter.com/DPJournal_ > > Here is a small selection of the latest posts: > > DPJ: "Objective" means "deadly" (i.e., without an alive subjectivity). > > DPJ: #Cohen, L.: "The developmental view of play, according to > #Sutton-Smith, 'is an ideology for the conquest of children?s behavior > through organizing their play' (2001, 205). In contrast, a Bakhtinian > carnivalesque perspective of play and language examines self in the > relation to the language and actions of others" (2011, 177) > > DPJ: Crisis of conventional schooling. Many people claim that there is > school crisis but they cite different evidence for this: > > Evidence: Low test scores. Remedy: Teach to the test. > Evidence: Alumni don?t remember much after school graduation. Remedy: > Improve memorization. > Evidence: High dropout rate. Remedy: Keep students in school by rewards > and punishments. > Evidence: Lack of conceptual understanding. Remedy: Promote students? > interested questions. > Evidence: Alienation. Remedy: Engage students in defining curriculum. > Evidence: Lack of studies. Remedy: Pay students for their learning. > Evidence: Lack of ownership for their learning. Remedy: Promote students? > authorial agency. > Evidence: Lack of cooperation with the teachers? demands. Remedy: A system > of rewards and punishments. > Evidence: School violence. Remedy: Forced exclusion. > > Other definitions of school crisis? > > *** > To see comments on these postings, please go to the Facebook page. > > Do you think that there is an intersection of relevant topics between XMCA > and DPJ? > > Ana > > From lchcmike@gmail.com Sun Nov 24 19:55:46 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 19:55:46 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: "Like" the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal" Facebook page!! In-Reply-To: <5469E3CA-35FF-49D5-9F72-595C5A5C5801@gmail.com> References: <5469E3CA-35FF-49D5-9F72-595C5A5C5801@gmail.com> Message-ID: yes? mike On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote: > Dear XMCA-ers, > > Some of you are probably familiar with the Dialogic Pedagogy Journal on > Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/DialogicPedagogyJournal). "Like" this > page on the Facebook if you are interested in discussions on Dialogic > Pedagogy issues. You will be notified when something is posted there, and > you are welcome to post and respond as you see fit. > These posts are also linked and published on DPJ Twitter: > https://twitter.com/DPJournal_ > > Here is a small selection of the latest posts: > > DPJ: "Objective" means "deadly" (i.e., without an alive subjectivity). > > DPJ: #Cohen, L.: "The developmental view of play, according to > #Sutton-Smith, 'is an ideology for the conquest of children?s behavior > through organizing their play' (2001, 205). In contrast, a Bakhtinian > carnivalesque perspective of play and language examines self in the > relation to the language and actions of others" (2011, 177) > > DPJ: Crisis of conventional schooling. Many people claim that there is > school crisis but they cite different evidence for this: > > Evidence: Low test scores. Remedy: Teach to the test. > Evidence: Alumni don?t remember much after school graduation. Remedy: > Improve memorization. > Evidence: High dropout rate. Remedy: Keep students in school by rewards > and punishments. > Evidence: Lack of conceptual understanding. Remedy: Promote students? > interested questions. > Evidence: Alienation. Remedy: Engage students in defining curriculum. > Evidence: Lack of studies. Remedy: Pay students for their learning. > Evidence: Lack of ownership for their learning. Remedy: Promote students? > authorial agency. > Evidence: Lack of cooperation with the teachers? demands. Remedy: A system > of rewards and punishments. > Evidence: School violence. Remedy: Forced exclusion. > > Other definitions of school crisis? > > *** > To see comments on these postings, please go to the Facebook page. > > Do you think that there is an intersection of relevant topics between XMCA > and DPJ? > > Ana > > From lchcmike@gmail.com Mon Nov 25 16:28:40 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:28:40 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [COGDEVSOC] Post-doctoral Program in Mathematical Thinking, Learning & Instruction In-Reply-To: <6995AA75-6F1C-4707-BAF5-D2BDF78F4454@wisc.edu> References: <6995AA75-6F1C-4707-BAF5-D2BDF78F4454@wisc.edu> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: chuck kalish Date: Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 6:56 AM Subject: [COGDEVSOC] Post-doctoral Program in Mathematical Thinking, Learning & Instruction To: cogdevsoc@virginia.edu Dear Colleagues, We are recruiting several post-doc positions for a training grant in mathematical thinking, learning, and instruction. The program is designed both for people with psychology/cognitive science backgrounds who want to learn more about mathematics education, and for people with math ed backgrounds who want to learn more about psych/cog sci theory and methods. ------------------------------------------------------------ [image: page1image1912] IES POST-DOCTORAL TRAINING GRANT MATHEMATICAL THINKING, LEARNING, AND INSTRUCTION WISCONSIN CENTER FOR EDUCATIONAL RESEARCH ? UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON OUR VISION There is a clear and recognized need for well-trained mathematics education researchers who are able to conduct scientifically based qualitative and quantitative research that addresses immediate and long-term questions about the efficacy of educational programs and policies, and who can provide an empirical basis for future designs of curricula, assessments, instruction, and learning environments. With funding from the US Department of Education's Institute of Education Sciences (IES), we now offer a two-year interdisciplinary, postdoctoral training program, situated at the University of Wisconsin? Madison, which aims to increase postdoctoral capacity to conduct rigorous research in the topic area of mathematics education. The program provides recent graduates opportunities to experience a range of methods, including graduates from curriculum & instruction departments seeking to learn quantitative methods that support causal inference, as well as psychologists and other social scientists seeking to conduct studies in natural settings and collect, analyze, and interpret process-level data. The training program emphasizes the interdisciplinary nature of the mathematics education research opportunities at the University of Wisconsin?Madison. It addresses broad research interests, including: Exploratory research, basic processes in learning and instruction, development and innovation, efficacy and replication, and measurement. PROGRAM DETAILS We frame the postdoctoral experience in terms of project-based learning by anchoring the training in ongoing, funded research on mathematics education. The program also offers our postdoctoral fellows individualized experiences created in collaboration with a mentoring committee including: research methods courses, campus colloquia, and independent research and supervised grant writing projects designed to match the needs of individual participants. The training grant Mentoring Team includes: Mitchell J. Nathan, director of the postdoctoral training program, professor of educational psychology (learning sciences) and mathematics education; Eric Knuth, professor of mathematics education; Amy Ellis, associate professor of mathematics education; Anita Wager, assistant professor of mathematics education; Martha W. Alibali, professor of psychology and educational psychology (human development and learning sciences); Charles Kalish, professor of educational psychology (human development); and Peter Steiner, assistant professor of mathematics education (quantitative methods). Further details about the faculty and research opportunities are available at our website, http://iesPostDoc.wceruw.org. HOW TO APPLY We are seeking to hire multiple applicants. We seek highly qualified applicants who have earned a doctorate degree in mathematics education, psychology, learning sciences, or related areas. The positions carry an annual stipend plus health insurance coverage and support for professional travel and professional development. For full consideration please have your completed application materials submitted by January 1, 2014. Review of applications will continue until the positions are filled. The starting date is negotiable. Applicants must be US citizens or permanent US residents. Please send all application materials to IESPostDoc@wcer.wisc.edu: (a) a letter that summarizes your research experiences, areas of interest and identifies a primary and secondary mentor from among the program faculty; (b) curriculum vitae; and (c) two publications or manuscripts. Also arrange for three confidential letters of reference to be sent to IESPostDoc@wcer.wisc.edu with the applicant?s name in the subject line. If you require further information, please contact Dr. Mitchell J. Nathan, mnathan@wisc.edu, 608-263-0563, or Dr. Anita Wager, awager@wisc.edu, 608-263-5142. [image: page1image31704] [image: page1image31864] [image: page1image32024] [image: page1image32184] [image: page1image32344] [image: page1image32504] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Kalish, Professor University of Wisconsin-Madison Educational Psychology cwkalish@wisc.edu Rm 1067 EdSciences ph: 608.262.0830 1025 W. Johnson St. fax: 608.262.0843 Madison, WI 53706 http://corundum.education.wisc.edu/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- =========== To post to the CDS listserv, send your message to: cogdevsoc@virginia.edu (If you belong to the listserv and have not included any large attachments, your message will be posted without moderation--so be careful!) To leave the CDS listserv, send a message to sympa@virginia.edu. The subject line should read: "unsubscribe cogdevsoc" (no quotes). Leave the message body blank. 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For other information about the listserv, including how to update your email address and how to subscribe, visit http://www.cogdevsoc.org/listserv.php ============ From lchcmike@gmail.com Thu Nov 28 11:04:32 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:04:32 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning In-Reply-To: <83DC11A4-F5D4-4D55-BC02-A1D5BCD69D56@uniandes.edu.co> References: <4byly7slav84c4mo4x4lhg30.1384113998690@email.android.com> <83DC11A4-F5D4-4D55-BC02-A1D5BCD69D56@uniandes.edu.co> Message-ID: This question is way late.... interest in discussing Paul and colleagues' paper appears to have died out. Martin sent us a paper that I take to be part of his "changing classes" book project. In it he makes the following comment (the whole paper was interesting to me). *The developmental processes in school involve ontological change--change in the kind of person a child becomes--and increasing this is becoming a ?relationalist ontology? as rationalization [of schooling] has its effect.* I am still early in the process of learning to get with the "ontological turn" in Anthropology that Latour discussed at the Anthro meetings recently. So mostly I am full of questions and uncertainties. Here is one. It has been fashionable for some time to talk about identity formation in relation to ontogenetic development. In that way of talking, I would translate the phenomenon "change in the kind of person a child becomes" as "change in the child's identity as function of schooling" or some such phrase. What violence does such a translation create? Identities are "kinds of people" and "kinds of entities in the world" is, I think, what ontology is about. mike PS-- I recommend the article! On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Martin John Packer wrote: > Looking back through old files I found a chapter I wrote over 10 years ago > exploring some of these issues. In case some of you have nothing better to > do on a three-day weekend I'm attaching it. > > Martin > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Thu Nov 28 12:26:52 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 15:26:52 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning Message-ID: Mike that is a brilliant question that I have been struggling with since the earthquake that hit my country of haiti since 2010. ?I have come to question everything about my academic bourgeois training, and the psychological violence by which the west forged my identity since I was 6 years old. Fortunately, ?the brutality of my Western training, which looked down upon my culture and people, was counterbalanced by the vodou ethic and spirit of communism of my illiterate grandmother who upon me entering grad school told me, "no matter what you learn in those white schools...remember that you are haitian and who and what you will become comes from bondye and will be in the service of black people."? Contemporarily, the haitian government is pushing education as the solution to haiti's problems. ?I disagree. ?For me it is part of the problem. ?It is the violent means by which we are brought into the dialectic of the capitalist world-system, which begs the question is there a liberating educational pedagogy? ?I disagree with Paulo Freire by the way. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: mike cole Date: 11/28/2013 2:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning This question is way late.... interest in discussing Paul and colleagues' paper appears to have died out. Martin sent us a paper that I take to be part of his "changing classes" book project. In it he makes the following comment (the whole paper was interesting to me). *The developmental processes in school involve ontological change--change in the kind of person a child becomes--and increasing this is becoming a ?relationalist ontology? as rationalization [of schooling] has its effect.* I am still early in the process of learning to get with the "ontological turn" in Anthropology that Latour discussed at the Anthro meetings recently. So mostly I am full of questions and uncertainties. Here is one.? It has been fashionable for some time to talk about identity formation in relation to ontogenetic development. In that way of talking, I would translate the phenomenon "change in the kind of person a child becomes" as "change in the child's identity as function of schooling" or some such phrase. What violence does such a translation create? Identities are "kinds of people" and "kinds of entities in the world" is, I think, what ontology is about. mike PS-- I recommend the article! On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Martin John Packer wrote: > Looking back through old files I found a chapter I wrote over 10 years ago > exploring some of these issues. In case some of you have nothing better to > do on a three-day weekend I'm attaching it. > > Martin > From Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu Thu Nov 28 12:45:42 2013 From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu (White, Phillip) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:45:42 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: glad that you're still on this list, Paul - you note that your grandmother said to you - "no matter what you learn in those white schools...remember that you are haitian and who and what you will become comes from bondye and will be in the service of black people."? and further on you write: "Contemporarily, the haitian government is pushing education as the solution to haiti's problems. I disagree. For me it is part of the problem. It is the violent means by which we are brought into the dialectic of the capitalist world-system, which begs the question is there a liberating educational pedagogy? I disagree with Paulo Freire by the way." (no disagreement regarding Freire, by the way.) so, what would you and / or your grandmother say is another possibility? after all, there is no color line regarding the exploitation of any peoples. walmart exploits everyone regardless of race, color, creed, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, gender, etc. etc. as did russian communists, only they did have a special way of persecuting people based on class. hey, the list historically of exploitation goes on and on, regardless of political, religious or economic practices, etc. ... believe me, i find myself grasping for alternatives with the only tools i've got, which necessarily have emerged out of the same cultural-historical society as has dialectical global capitalism. surely it doesn't come down to just growing a garden? phillip From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Thu Nov 28 13:16:30 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:16:30 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning Message-ID: Phillip, There was a time where I pushed for chomskyian anarchism. ..following the revolution that was the response of petion and the mulatto class in haiti following their assassination of dessalines. ?They allowed dessalines's division of the land to remain, but provided no other ideological apparatus to regulate the society. ?The regulation of the society, especially in the north where the majority of the slaves were, ?was left to houngan and mambos, vodou priest and priestess. ?The haitian masses, 75 percent were directly from africa when the revolution began, reproduced their african way of life on the island. ?The fabric of this type of anarchic social structure, which was governed by agriculture and vodou spiritualism, was constantly undermined by the liberal and western practices of the mulatto elites who feared the majority of the masses. ?These liberal and western practices, neoliberalism, ?forced the masses off the lands in the provinces, which droved them to port-au-prince where they reproduced their anarchic traditions in the capital city against the liberal practices of the mulatto elites. ?This anarchism led to the devastating effects of the earthquake. ?Hence I have come to question chomskyian anarchism amidst neoliberalism, which seeks to make haiti into jamaica and the bahamas. ?The bolivian response under evo morales seems to be what haiti should opt for, however, america is constantly undermining that push. Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: "White, Phillip" Date: 11/28/2013 3:45 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "Dr. Paul C. Mocombe" ,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: Critical Early Learning glad that you're still on this list, Paul? -? you note that your grandmother said to you -? "no matter what you learn in those white schools...remember that you are haitian and who and what you will become comes from bondye and will be in the service of black people."? and further on you write: "Contemporarily, the haitian government is pushing education as the solution to haiti's problems.? I disagree.? For me it is part of the problem.? It is the violent means by which we are brought into the dialectic of the capitalist world-system, which begs the question is there a liberating educational pedagogy?? I disagree with Paulo Freire by the way." (no disagreement regarding Freire, by the way.) so, what would you and / or your grandmother say is another possibility?? after all, there is no color line regarding the exploitation of any peoples.? walmart exploits everyone regardless of race, color, creed, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, gender, etc. etc.? as did russian communists, only they did have a special way of persecuting people based on class.? hey, the list historically of exploitation goes on and on, regardless of political, religious or economic practices, etc. ... believe me, i find myself grasping for alternatives with the only tools i've got, which necessarily have emerged out of the same cultural-historical society as has dialectical global capitalism.? surely it doesn't come down to just growing a garden? phillip From smago@uga.edu Fri Nov 29 09:15:58 2013 From: smago@uga.edu (Peter Smagorinsky) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 17:15:58 +0000 Subject: [Xmca-l] I'm pleased to say that I wrote Mayor Emanuel's nomination letter Message-ID: http://www.ncte.org/library/NCTEFiles/Involved/Volunteer/Appointed%20Groups/Past_Recipients_Doublespeak_Award.pdf Past Recipients of the NCTE Doublespeak Award 2013 Chicago Mayor Rham Emanuel For his "reform" rhetoric in his management of the Chicago public schools, in particular his plan to close over 50 schools for "underutilization" of space. As described in the Washington Post: Emanuel plans to close 54 public elementary schools at the end of the 2012-13 school year. The reason, he says, is because the schools are "underutilized." He bases that claim on an esoteric - and deeply flawed - Chicago Public Schools space utilization formula. It's a formula, for example, that will peg a school's utilization as "efficient" (rather than "overcrowded") if that school has 36 students in each of its "allotted homerooms." Using that same formula, a CPS elementary school with just 23 kids in each of its "allotted homerooms" would find itself on the district's "underutilized" list, which, in 2013, is the first step on the road to being shut down. The article goes on to note that "At the mayor's kids' school, however, elementary classes are considered 'full"' if there are 23 students in the classroom." The mayor's children attend the private University of Chicago Lab School, once attended by the mayor's pal Arne Duncan. In the public schools, however, as the mayor's Communications Officer Becky Carroll stated, "It's the quality of teaching in that classroom. You could have a teacher that is high-quality that could take 40 kids in a class and help them succeed." No problem, as long as it's somebody else's kids in jam-packed classes in deteriorating, if well "utilized," classrooms. Mayor Emanuel surely deserves this prestigious award for his embodiment of Orwell's vision of a rhetorically fraudulent society. From lchcmike@gmail.com Fri Nov 29 10:21:05 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:21:05 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii Message-ID: Dear Russian experts on XMCA I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they are working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to wondering how Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the work I am reading, but Mead and Piaget. When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English for these terms, the cognate perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for "point of view" is literally that, tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I know what it is. Any help out there?? mike P S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. Perhaps its just my bad question! From bella.kotik@gmail.com Fri Nov 29 10:28:46 2013 From: bella.kotik@gmail.com (Bella Kotik-Friedgut) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 20:28:46 +0200 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mike I would like to help, but I do not see the question not seeing the paper. Point of view is ????? ?????? while in translations of Piagetian context "perspective" is used for being able to see from a different point of view (other person) Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 8:21 PM, mike cole wrote: > Dear Russian experts on XMCA > > I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and > perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they are > working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to wondering how > Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the work I > am reading, but Mead and > Piaget. > > When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English for these > terms, the cognate > perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for "point of > view" is literally that, > tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. > > I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I know what it > is. Any help out there?? > mike > > P > S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on > intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky > refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. Perhaps its > just my bad question! > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sat Nov 30 06:37:19 2013 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Larry Purss) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 06:37:19 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is referring to perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this question of perspective taking is also converging with your other question on *kinds* or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to be central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing for the multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored in Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring notions of *identity* AS KINDS [categories] Oakeshott argues that ?This distinction, then, between ?goings-on? identified as themselves exhibitions of intelligence and ?goings-on? which may be made intelligible but are not themselves intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between minds and bodies regarded as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, a distinction between ?sciences? (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with which they are concerned. And in calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that the understanding of identities recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be ?reduced? to the understanding of identities no so recognized?, *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* [multiple] AS RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm of KINDS AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge with *culture* and *history*. I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. Larry Purss On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: > Dear Russian experts on XMCA > > I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and > perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they are > working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to wondering how > Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the work I > am reading, but Mead and > Piaget. > > When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English for these > terms, the cognate > perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for "point of > view" is literally that, > tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. > > I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I know what it > is. Any help out there?? > mike > > P > S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on > intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky > refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. Perhaps its > just my bad question! > From lchcmike@gmail.com Sat Nov 30 09:08:14 2013 From: lchcmike@gmail.com (mike cole) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 09:08:14 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. My interest at present is on the development of social and relational perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of view (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy has to be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS we often discuss)? Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! mike On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss wrote: > Mike, > I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is referring to > perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this question of > perspective taking is also converging with your other question on *kinds* > or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] > > I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to be > central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice > This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing for the > multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence > with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored in > Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. > > I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring notions of > *identity* AS KINDS [categories] > > Oakeshott argues that ?This distinction, then, between ?goings-on? > identified as themselves > > exhibitions of intelligence and ?goings-on? which may be made intelligible > but are not themselves > > intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between > minds and bodies regarded > > as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, a > distinction between > > ?sciences? (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with which they > are concerned. And in > > calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that the > understanding of identities > > recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be ?reduced? > to the understanding of > > identities no so recognized?, *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. > > > I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* [multiple] AS > RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm of KINDS > AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge > with *culture* and *history*. > > I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. > > Larry Purss > > > > > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> Dear Russian experts on XMCA >> >> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and >> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they are >> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to wondering how >> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the work I >> am reading, but Mead and >> Piaget. >> >> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English for these >> terms, the cognate >> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for "point of >> view" is literally that, >> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. >> >> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I know what >> it >> is. Any help out there?? >> mike >> >> P >> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on >> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky >> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. Perhaps its >> just my bad question! >> > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Nov 30 13:26:13 2013 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 14:26:13 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness arises from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here is what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to sublate its own self, for this other is itself." This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In that tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the full constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully self-conscious. [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration in his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, to my mind, of little consequence).] I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in Marx's early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the relations of persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just our deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, i.e. our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are "just like us". Isn't that perspective taking? But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have made its way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). -greg p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. One of Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a minute to XMCA. Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: ? 179 . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has come outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its own self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially real, but sees its own self in the other. ? 180 . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to sublate its own self, for this other is itself. ? 181 . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense is at the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with itself again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the other and thus lets the other again go free. ? 182 . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action of one alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double significance of being at once its own action and the action of that other as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, and there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first does not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for its own behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. The process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it demands on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only so far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be useless, because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. ? 183 . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it is an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense that the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other regardless of their distinction. ? 184 . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as the play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], holds here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness which breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this interchange of its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. While *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it exists for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is to itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at the same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: > Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. My > interest at present is on the development of social and relational > perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of view > (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal > understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, > perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy has to > be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS we often > discuss)? > > Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! > mike > > > > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss wrote: > > > Mike, > > I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is referring to > > perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this question of > > perspective taking is also converging with your other question on *kinds* > > or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] > > > > I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to be > > central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice > > This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing for the > > multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence > > with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored > in > > Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. > > > > I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring notions of > > *identity* AS KINDS [categories] > > > > Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' > > identified as themselves > > > > exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made > intelligible > > but are not themselves > > > > intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between > > minds and bodies regarded > > > > as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, > a > > distinction between > > > > 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with which they > > are concerned. And in > > > > calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that the > > understanding of identities > > > > recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' > > to the understanding of > > > > identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. > > > > > > I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* [multiple] AS > > RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm of KINDS > > AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge > > with *culture* and *history*. > > > > I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. > > > > Larry Purss > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > >> Dear Russian experts on XMCA > >> > >> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and > >> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they are > >> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to wondering how > >> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the > work I > >> am reading, but Mead and > >> Piaget. > >> > >> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English for > these > >> terms, the cognate > >> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for "point of > >> view" is literally that, > >> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. > >> > >> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I know what > >> it > >> is. Any help out there?? > >> mike > >> > >> P > >> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on > >> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky > >> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. Perhaps its > >> just my bad question! > >> > > > > > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Nov 30 13:28:27 2013 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (Greg Thompson) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 14:28:27 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Fwd: [Spa] Emotion Review In-Reply-To: <529A13ED.6070707@bc.edu> References: <529A13ED.6070707@bc.edu> Message-ID: An interesting journal that focuses on Emotion and which might be of interest to XMCA'ers. The call includes recent work by psychological anthropologists that has been featured in the journal. -greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jim Russell Date: Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 9:35 AM Subject: [Spa] Emotion Review To: spa@union.edu Please see the attached Call for Papers -- James A. Russell Professor Dept of Psychology McGuinn Hall Boston College Chestnut Hill, MA USA 02467 Tel: 617 552 4546 Fax: 617 552 0523 _______________________________________________ Spa mailing list Spa@union.edu http://lists.union.edu/mailman/listinfo/spa -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ER Anthropology - Call for Papers.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 130929 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20131130/4fcfdeb8/attachment.pdf From bazerman@education.ucsb.edu Sat Nov 30 15:00:46 2013 From: bazerman@education.ucsb.edu (Charles Bazerman) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 15:00:46 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do any of you scholarly folk also know if there is a line of influence from the Scottish moralists to Hegel's views on perspective taking? Given the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment on U.S. education, I wouldn't be surprised if that work got to Mead as well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Thompson Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:27 pm Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii To: Mike Cole , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Mike, > Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's > social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness arises > from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here > is > what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: > "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first > double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must > set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to > become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon > proceeds to > sublate its own self, for this other is itself." > > This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's > Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In that > tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the > perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective > of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the > full > constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully > self-conscious. > > [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration > in > his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, > to > my mind, of little consequence).] > > I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in Marx's > early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the > relations of > persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity > fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual > participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich > individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for > accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to > reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just our > deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, i.e. > our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. > Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are "just > like us". > Isn't that perspective taking? > > But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have > made its > way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). > -greg > p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking > into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. > One of > Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a > minute to XMCA. > > > Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: > > ? < > 179 < > . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has > come > outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its > own > self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby > sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially real, > but sees its own self in the other. > > ? < > 180 < > . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first > double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must > set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to > become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon > proceeds to > sublate its own self, for this other is itself. > > ? < > 181 < > . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense > is at > the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, > through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with itself > again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise > gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was > aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the > other and > thus lets the other again go free. > > ? < > 182 < > . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another > self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action > of one > alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double > significance of being at once its own action and the action of that other > as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, > and > there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first does > not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic > primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently > for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for > its own > behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. > The > process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. > Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it demands > on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only > so > far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be useless, > because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. > > ? < > 183 < > . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it > is > an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense that > the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other > regardless of their distinction. > > ? < > 184 < > . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as > the > play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. > What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], > holds > here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness which > breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this > interchange of > its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. While > *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being > outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it exists > for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. > *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another > consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels > itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the > self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, > through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is > to > itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at > the > same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They > recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. > > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. > My > > interest at present is on the development of social and relational > > perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of > view > > (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal > > understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, > > perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy > has to > > be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS > we often > > discuss)? > > > > Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! > > mike > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss > wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > > I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is > referring to > > > perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this > question of > > > perspective taking is also converging with your other question on > *kinds* > > > or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] > > > > > > I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to > be > > > central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice > > > This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing > for the > > > multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence > > > with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored > > in > > > Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. > > > > > > I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring > notions of > > > *identity* AS KINDS [categories] > > > > > > Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' > > > identified as themselves > > > > > > exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made > > intelligible > > > but are not themselves > > > > > > intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between > > > minds and bodies regarded > > > > > > as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, > > a > > > distinction between > > > > > > 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with > which they > > > are concerned. And in > > > > > > calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that > the > > > understanding of identities > > > > > > recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' > > > to the understanding of > > > > > > identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. > > > > > > > > > I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* > [multiple] AS > > > RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm > of KINDS > > > AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge > > > with *culture* and *history*. > > > > > > I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. > > > > > > Larry Purss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Russian experts on XMCA > > >> > > >> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and > > >> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they > are > > >> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to > wondering how > > >> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the > > work I > > >> am reading, but Mead and > > >> Piaget. > > >> > > >> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English > for > > these > > >> terms, the cognate > > >> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for > "point of > > >> view" is literally that, > > >> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. > > >> > > >> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I > know what > > >> it > > >> is. Any help out there?? > > >> mike > > >> > > >> P > > >> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on > > >> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky > > >> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. > Perhaps its > > >> just my bad question! > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Visiting Assistant Professor > Department of Anthropology > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > Brigham Young University > Provo, UT 84602 > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson From ablunden@mira.net Sat Nov 30 15:11:01 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 10:11:01 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529A7085.5040505@mira.net> Greg, you do as almost any Hegel reader of our times would do and turn to the master-servant dialectic in the Phenomenology for an answer to a question about Hegel. The problem is that this dialectic is about the confrontation between two subjects who have no third, no means of mediation of their relation (in the wild so to speak) and find themselves in a situation of having to fight to the death, etc., etc., but manage to live together only by one subordinating the other, and by means of a dialectic of needs and labour, so one, at least (the servant), gets to know the Other. Secondly, no Marxist or psychologist took any interest in this passage until after Vygotsky's death. Mead in the US and Kojeve in France in the mid-1930s, were the first to write about it. There are a number of passages to go to in Hegel to find about his ideas on empathy, but I would think the natural place to go is the Philosophy of Right where Hegel is concerned that the growth of "bourgeois society" (i.e., the market) is leading to mutual alienation. In his early work he thought that the market, by publicly circulating and valuing someone's product would be the means of mutual recognition or mediation, but this is less prominent in the Philosophy of Right. Mostly he looks to all manner of voluntary association as the means by which conflict and failure of recognition may be mediated. And *mediated* is the big word there. Marx actually makes fun of Hegel for his obsession with mediation in the Philosophy of Right. But I think that is Hegel's answser (if one wants to know that): mediation. That is the problem which the two subjects running into each other in the wild had. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Greg Thompson wrote: > Mike, > Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's > social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness arises > from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here is > what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: > "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first > double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must > set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to > become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to > sublate its own self, for this other is itself." > > This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's > Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In that > tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the > perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective > of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the full > constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully > self-conscious. > > [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration in > his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, to > my mind, of little consequence).] > > I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in Marx's > early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the relations of > persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity > fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual > participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich > individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for > accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to > reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just our > deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, i.e. > our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. > Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are "just > like us". > Isn't that perspective taking? > > But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have made its > way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). > -greg > p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking > into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. One of > Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a > minute to XMCA. > > > Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: > > ? > 179 > . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has come > outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its own > self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby > sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially real, > but sees its own self in the other. > > ? > 180 > . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first > double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must > set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to > become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to > sublate its own self, for this other is itself. > > ? > 181 > . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense is at > the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, > through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with itself > again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise > gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was > aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the other and > thus lets the other again go free. > > ? > 182 > . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another > self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action of one > alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double > significance of being at once its own action and the action of that other > as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, and > there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first does > not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic > primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently > for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for its own > behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. The > process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. > Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it demands > on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only so > far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be useless, > because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. > > ? > 183 > . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it is > an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense that > the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other > regardless of their distinction. > > ? > 184 > . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as the > play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. > What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], holds > here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness which > breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this interchange of > its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. While > *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being > outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it exists > for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. > *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another > consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels > itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the > self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, > through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is to > itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at the > same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They > recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. > > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: > > >> Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. My >> interest at present is on the development of social and relational >> perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of view >> (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal >> understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, >> perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy has to >> be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS we often >> discuss)? >> >> Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! >> mike >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss wrote: >> >> >>> Mike, >>> I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is referring to >>> perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this question of >>> perspective taking is also converging with your other question on *kinds* >>> or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] >>> >>> I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to be >>> central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice >>> This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing for the >>> multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence >>> with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored >>> >> in >> >>> Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. >>> >>> I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring notions of >>> *identity* AS KINDS [categories] >>> >>> Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' >>> identified as themselves >>> >>> exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made >>> >> intelligible >> >>> but are not themselves >>> >>> intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between >>> minds and bodies regarded >>> >>> as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, >>> >> a >> >>> distinction between >>> >>> 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with which they >>> are concerned. And in >>> >>> calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that the >>> understanding of identities >>> >>> recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' >>> to the understanding of >>> >>> identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. >>> >>> >>> I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* [multiple] AS >>> RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm of KINDS >>> AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge >>> with *culture* and *history*. >>> >>> I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. >>> >>> Larry Purss >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Dear Russian experts on XMCA >>>> >>>> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and >>>> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they are >>>> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to wondering how >>>> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the >>>> >> work I >> >>>> am reading, but Mead and >>>> Piaget. >>>> >>>> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English for >>>> >> these >> >>>> terms, the cognate >>>> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for "point of >>>> view" is literally that, >>>> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. >>>> >>>> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I know what >>>> it >>>> is. Any help out there?? >>>> mike >>>> >>>> P >>>> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on >>>> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky >>>> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. Perhaps its >>>> just my bad question! >>>> >>>> >>> > > > > From ablunden@mira.net Sat Nov 30 15:14:30 2013 From: ablunden@mira.net (Andy Blunden) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 10:14:30 +1100 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529A7156.90606@mira.net> Yes, Charles, it is well known that Hegel read and admired the work of the political economists and he also gave prominant place to the Scots in his History of Philosophy, namely, Reid, Beattie, Oswald and Douglas Stewart. And Mead wrote in a letter that his I/Me dialectic was based on Hegel. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.mira.net/~andy/ Charles Bazerman wrote: > Do any of you scholarly folk also know if there is a line of influence from the Scottish moralists to Hegel's views on perspective taking? Given the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment on U.S. education, I wouldn't be surprised if that work got to Mead as well. > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Thompson > Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:27 pm > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii > To: Mike Cole , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > >> Mike, >> Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's >> social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness arises >> from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here >> is >> what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: >> "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first >> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must >> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to >> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon >> proceeds to >> sublate its own self, for this other is itself." >> >> This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's >> Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In that >> tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the >> perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective >> of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the >> full >> constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully >> self-conscious. >> >> [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration >> in >> his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, >> to >> my mind, of little consequence).] >> >> I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in Marx's >> early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the >> relations of >> persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity >> fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual >> participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich >> individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for >> accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to >> reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just our >> deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, i.e. >> our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. >> Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are "just >> like us". >> Isn't that perspective taking? >> >> But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have >> made its >> way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). >> -greg >> p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking >> into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. >> One of >> Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a >> minute to XMCA. >> >> >> Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: >> >> ? < >> 179 < >> . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has >> come >> outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its >> own >> self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby >> sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially real, >> but sees its own self in the other. >> >> ? < >> 180 < >> . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first >> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must >> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to >> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon >> proceeds to >> sublate its own self, for this other is itself. >> >> ? < >> 181 < >> . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense >> is at >> the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, >> through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with itself >> again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise >> gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was >> aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the >> other and >> thus lets the other again go free. >> >> ? < >> 182 < >> . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another >> self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action >> of one >> alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double >> significance of being at once its own action and the action of that other >> as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, >> and >> there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first does >> not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic >> primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently >> for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for >> its own >> behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. >> The >> process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. >> Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it demands >> on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only >> so >> far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be useless, >> because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. >> >> ? < >> 183 < >> . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it >> is >> an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense that >> the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other >> regardless of their distinction. >> >> ? < >> 184 < >> . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as >> the >> play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. >> What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], >> holds >> here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness which >> breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this >> interchange of >> its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. While >> *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being >> outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it exists >> for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. >> *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another >> consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels >> itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the >> self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, >> through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is >> to >> itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at >> the >> same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They >> recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. >>> >> My >> >>> interest at present is on the development of social and relational >>> perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of >>> >> view >> >>> (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal >>> understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, >>> perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy >>> >> has to >> >>> be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS >>> >> we often >> >>> discuss)? >>> >>> Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! >>> mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss >>> >> wrote: >> >>>> Mike, >>>> I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is >>>> >> referring to >> >>>> perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this >>>> >> question of >> >>>> perspective taking is also converging with your other question on >>>> >> *kinds* >> >>>> or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] >>>> >>>> I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to >>>> >> be >> >>>> central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice >>>> This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing >>>> >> for the >> >>>> multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence >>>> with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored >>>> >>> in >>> >>>> Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. >>>> >>>> I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring >>>> >> notions of >> >>>> *identity* AS KINDS [categories] >>>> >>>> Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' >>>> identified as themselves >>>> >>>> exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made >>>> >>> intelligible >>> >>>> but are not themselves >>>> >>>> intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between >>>> minds and bodies regarded >>>> >>>> as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, >>>> >>> a >>> >>>> distinction between >>>> >>>> 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with >>>> >> which they >> >>>> are concerned. And in >>>> >>>> calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that >>>> >> the >> >>>> understanding of identities >>>> >>>> recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' >>>> to the understanding of >>>> >>>> identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. >>>> >>>> >>>> I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* >>>> >> [multiple] AS >> >>>> RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm >>>> >> of KINDS >> >>>> AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge >>>> with *culture* and *history*. >>>> >>>> I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. >>>> >>>> Larry Purss >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Russian experts on XMCA >>>>> >>>>> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and >>>>> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they >>>>> >> are >> >>>>> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to >>>>> >> wondering how >> >>>>> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the >>>>> >>> work I >>> >>>>> am reading, but Mead and >>>>> Piaget. >>>>> >>>>> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English >>>>> >> for >> >>> these >>> >>>>> terms, the cognate >>>>> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for >>>>> >> "point of >> >>>>> view" is literally that, >>>>> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. >>>>> >>>>> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I >>>>> >> know what >> >>>>> it >>>>> is. Any help out there?? >>>>> mike >>>>> >>>>> P >>>>> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on >>>>> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky >>>>> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. >>>>> >> Perhaps its >> >>>>> just my bad question! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Visiting Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropology >> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >> Brigham Young University >> Provo, UT 84602 >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >> > > > > From bazerman@education.ucsb.edu Sat Nov 30 15:17:36 2013 From: bazerman@education.ucsb.edu (Charles Bazerman) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 15:17:36 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: <529A7156.90606@mira.net> References: <529A7156.90606@mira.net> Message-ID: thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Blunden Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 3:15 pm Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Yes, Charles, it is well known that Hegel read and admired the work of > > the political economists and he also gave prominant place to the Scots > > in his History of Philosophy, namely, Reid, Beattie, Oswald and > Douglas > Stewart. > And Mead wrote in a letter that his I/Me dialectic was based on Hegel. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Charles Bazerman wrote: > > Do any of you scholarly folk also know if there is a line of > influence from the Scottish moralists to Hegel's views on perspective > taking? Given the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment on U.S. > education, I wouldn't be surprised if that work got to Mead as well. > > > Chuck > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Greg Thompson > > Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:27 pm > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii > > To: Mike Cole , "eXtended Mind, Culture, > Activity" > > > > > >> Mike, > >> Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's > >> social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, > self-consciousness arises > >> from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. > Here > >> is > >> what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: > >> "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first > >> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it > must > >> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby > to > >> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon > >> proceeds to > >> sublate its own self, for this other is itself." > >> > >> This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's > >> Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). > In that > >> tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the > >> perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective > >> of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for > the > >> full > >> constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully > >> self-conscious. > >> > >> [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's > inspiration > >> in > >> his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable > and, > >> to > >> my mind, of little consequence).] > >> > >> I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found > in Marx's > >> early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the > >> relations of > >> persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity > >> fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual > >> participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich > >> individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for > >> accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to > >> reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not > just our > >> deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal > kinship, i.e. > >> our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. > >> Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are > "just > >> like us". > >> Isn't that perspective taking? > >> > >> But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have > > >> made its > >> way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). > >> -greg > >> p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking > >> into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. > > >> One of > >> Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just > a > >> minute to XMCA. > >> > >> > >> Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: > >> > >> ? < > >> 179 < > >> . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it > has > >> come > >> outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost > its > >> own > >> self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby > >> sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as > essentially real, > >> but sees its own self in the other. > >> > >> ? < > >> 180 < > >> . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that > first > >> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it > must > >> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby > to > >> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon > >> proceeds to > >> sublate its own self, for this other is itself. > >> > >> ? < > >> 181 < > >> . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double > sense > >> is at > >> the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, > >> through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with > itself > >> again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise > >> gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it > was > >> aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the > >> other and > >> thus lets the other again go free. > >> > >> ? < > >> 182 < > >> . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another > >> self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the > action > >> of one > >> alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double > >> significance of being at once its own action and the action of that > other > >> as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within > itself, > >> and > >> there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first > does > >> not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic > >> primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently > >> for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for > > >> its own > >> behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to > it. > >> The > >> process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. > >> Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it > demands > >> on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, > only > >> so > >> far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be > useless, > >> because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. > >> > >> ? < > >> 183 < > >> . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that > it > >> is > >> an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the > sense that > >> the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other > >> regardless of their distinction. > >> > >> ? < > >> 184 < > >> . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us > as > >> the > >> play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. > >> What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating > experience], > >> holds > >> here for the terms themselves. The middle term is > self-consciousness which > >> breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this > >> interchange of > >> its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. > While > >> *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being > >> outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it > exists > >> for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. > >> *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another > >> consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels > >> itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the > >> self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, > >> through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each > is > >> to > >> itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, > at > >> the > >> same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They > >> recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these > issues. > >>> > >> My > >> > >>> interest at present is on the development of social and relational > >>> perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point > of > >>> > >> view > >> > >>> (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal > >>> understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, > >>> perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? > Empathy > >>> > >> has to > >> > >>> be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS > > >>> > >> we often > >> > >>> discuss)? > >>> > >>> Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! > >>> mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss > > >>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>>> Mike, > >>>> I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is > >>>> > >> referring to > >> > >>>> perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this > >>>> > >> question of > >> > >>>> perspective taking is also converging with your other question on > > >>>> > >> *kinds* > >> > >>>> or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] > >>>> > >>>> I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems > to > >>>> > >> be > >> > >>>> central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and > practice > >>>> This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing > > >>>> > >> for the > >> > >>>> multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence > >>>> with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored > >>>> > >>> in > >>> > >>>> Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. > >>>> > >>>> I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring > >>>> > >> notions of > >> > >>>> *identity* AS KINDS [categories] > >>>> > >>>> Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' > >>>> identified as themselves > >>>> > >>>> exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made > >>>> > >>> intelligible > >>> > >>>> but are not themselves > >>>> > >>>> intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or > between > >>>> minds and bodies regarded > >>>> > >>>> as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, > >>>> > >>> a > >>> > >>>> distinction between > >>>> > >>>> 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with > >>>> > >> which they > >> > >>>> are concerned. And in > >>>> > >>>> calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is > that > >>>> > >> the > >> > >>>> understanding of identities > >>>> > >>>> recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' > >>>> to the understanding of > >>>> > >>>> identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* > >>>> > >> [multiple] AS > >> > >>>> RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm > > >>>> > >> of KINDS > >> > >>>> AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to > converge > >>>> with *culture* and *history*. > >>>> > >>>> I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. > >>>> > >>>> Larry Purss > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Dear Russian experts on XMCA > >>>>> > >>>>> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and > >>>>> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say > they > >>>>> > >> are > >> > >>>>> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to > >>>>> > >> wondering how > >> > >>>>> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in > the > >>>>> > >>> work I > >>> > >>>>> am reading, but Mead and > >>>>> Piaget. > >>>>> > >>>>> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English > > >>>>> > >> for > >> > >>> these > >>> > >>>>> terms, the cognate > >>>>> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for > >>>>> > >> "point of > >> > >>>>> view" is literally that, > >>>>> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. > >>>>> > >>>>> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I > >>>>> > >> know what > >> > >>>>> it > >>>>> is. Any help out there?? > >>>>> mike > >>>>> > >>>>> P > >>>>> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on > >>>>> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky > >>>>> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. > >>>>> > >> Perhaps its > >> > >>>>> just my bad question! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >> > >> -- > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >> Visiting Assistant Professor > >> Department of Anthropology > >> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >> Brigham Young University > >> Provo, UT 84602 > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > >> > > > > > > > > > From greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Sat Nov 30 17:19:42 2013 From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com (greg.a.thompson@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:19:42 -0700 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: <529A7156.90606@mira.net> References: <529A7156.90606@mira.net> Message-ID: <27CB8BAB-669F-4A1B-9711-EEA1E2E755DE@gmail.com> Charles, and I. Addition to getting smith via Hegel, pretty certain that mead would have had fairly direct contact with smith's looking glass theory of the self (from Theory of MorAl Sentiments) from Charles Horton Cooley (who is often cited as the origi ator of the looking glass theory of the self). Is the looking glass theory of the self an example of perspective taking? Still no closer to an answer to mikes original question! Greg Sent from my iPhone On Nov 30, 2013, at 4:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Yes, Charles, it is well known that Hegel read and admired the work of the political economists and he also gave prominant place to the Scots in his History of Philosophy, namely, Reid, Beattie, Oswald and Douglas Stewart. > And Mead wrote in a letter that his I/Me dialectic was based on Hegel. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Charles Bazerman wrote: >> Do any of you scholarly folk also know if there is a line of influence from the Scottish moralists to Hegel's views on perspective taking? Given the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment on U.S. education, I wouldn't be surprised if that work got to Mead as well. Chuck >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Greg Thompson >> Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:27 pm >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii >> To: Mike Cole , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >> >>> Mike, >>> Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's >>> social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness arises >>> from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here is >>> what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: >>> "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first >>> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must >>> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to >>> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to >>> sublate its own self, for this other is itself." >>> >>> This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's >>> Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In that >>> tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the >>> perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective >>> of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the full >>> constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully >>> self-conscious. >>> >>> [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration in >>> his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, to >>> my mind, of little consequence).] >>> >>> I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in Marx's >>> early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the relations of >>> persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity >>> fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual >>> participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich >>> individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for >>> accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to >>> reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just our >>> deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, i.e. >>> our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. >>> Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are "just >>> like us". >>> Isn't that perspective taking? >>> >>> But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have made its >>> way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). >>> -greg >>> p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking >>> into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. One of >>> Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a >>> minute to XMCA. >>> >>> >>> Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: >>> >>> ? < >>> 179 < >>> . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has come >>> outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its own >>> self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby >>> sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially real, >>> but sees its own self in the other. >>> >>> ? < >>> 180 < >>> . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first >>> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must >>> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to >>> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to >>> sublate its own self, for this other is itself. >>> >>> ? < >>> 181 < >>> . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense is at >>> the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, >>> through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with itself >>> again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise >>> gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was >>> aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the other and >>> thus lets the other again go free. >>> >>> ? < >>> 182 < >>> . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another >>> self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action of one >>> alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double >>> significance of being at once its own action and the action of that other >>> as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, and >>> there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first does >>> not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic >>> primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently >>> for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for its own >>> behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. The >>> process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. >>> Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it demands >>> on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only so >>> far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be useless, >>> because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. >>> >>> ? < >>> 183 < >>> . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it is >>> an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense that >>> the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other >>> regardless of their distinction. >>> >>> ? < >>> 184 < >>> . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as the >>> play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. >>> What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], holds >>> here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness which >>> breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this interchange of >>> its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. While >>> *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being >>> outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it exists >>> for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. >>> *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another >>> consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels >>> itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the >>> self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, >>> through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is to >>> itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at the >>> same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They >>> recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. >>> My >>> >>>> interest at present is on the development of social and relational >>>> perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of >>> view >>> >>>> (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal >>>> understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, >>>> perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy >>> has to >>> >>>> be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS >>> we often >>> >>>> discuss)? >>>> >>>> Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! >>>> mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> Mike, >>>>> I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is >>> referring to >>> >>>>> perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this >>> question of >>> >>>>> perspective taking is also converging with your other question on >>> *kinds* >>> >>>>> or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] >>>>> >>>>> I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to >>> be >>> >>>>> central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice >>>>> This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing >>> for the >>> >>>>> multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence >>>>> with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored >>>> in >>>> >>>>> Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring >>> notions of >>> >>>>> *identity* AS KINDS [categories] >>>>> >>>>> Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' >>>>> identified as themselves >>>>> >>>>> exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made >>>> intelligible >>>> >>>>> but are not themselves >>>>> >>>>> intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between >>>>> minds and bodies regarded >>>>> >>>>> as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, >>>> a >>>> >>>>> distinction between >>>>> >>>>> 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with >>> which they >>> >>>>> are concerned. And in >>>>> >>>>> calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that >>> the >>> >>>>> understanding of identities >>>>> >>>>> recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' >>>>> to the understanding of >>>>> >>>>> identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* >>> [multiple] AS >>> >>>>> RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm >>> of KINDS >>> >>>>> AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge >>>>> with *culture* and *history*. >>>>> >>>>> I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. >>>>> >>>>> Larry Purss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Russian experts on XMCA >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and >>>>>> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they >>> are >>> >>>>>> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to >>> wondering how >>> >>>>>> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the >>>> work I >>>> >>>>>> am reading, but Mead and >>>>>> Piaget. >>>>>> >>>>>> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English >>> for >>> >>>> these >>>> >>>>>> terms, the cognate >>>>>> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for >>> "point of >>> >>>>>> view" is literally that, >>>>>> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. >>>>>> >>>>>> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I >>> know what >>> >>>>>> it >>>>>> is. Any help out there?? >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> P >>>>>> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on >>>>>> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky >>>>>> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. >>> Perhaps its >>> >>>>>> just my bad question! >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Visiting Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > From lpscholar2@gmail.com Sat Nov 30 19:59:36 2013 From: lpscholar2@gmail.com (Larry Purss) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 19:59:36 -0800 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii In-Reply-To: <27CB8BAB-669F-4A1B-9711-EEA1E2E755DE@gmail.com> References: <529A7156.90606@mira.net> <27CB8BAB-669F-4A1B-9711-EEA1E2E755DE@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am curious about perspective taking as sociocultural and how the sociocultural relates to the intersubjective. For example bildung can be translated as *culture* and *cultivated* [sociocultural] Within *bildung* is the root *bild* which translates to form, image, and in particular *picture* [perspective] Cultivation is a process [systems metaphor] or a product of *forming* the self in accordance with an *image or picture* [representations] The interrelations of ur-bild [original], vor-bild [model], ab-bild [copy], bild [picture] and ein-bild-dungskraft [imagination] within inter-subjective perspective-taking that is related to bild-ung [socio cultural] Also in German are two distinct meanings of *experience*. erlebnis = experience AS moments lived in immediacy erfahrung = experience AS related to other persons and to our cultural historical past. This KIND of experience is intersubjective and mediated as an ongoing developmental process which is a process of overturning an existing perspective [picture or image] which is not simply *knowledge* [as adding information] but develops *culture* Erlebnis is experience that you *have* [possess]. Erfahrung is experience you undergo so subjectivity is mediated and DRAWN INTO AN EVENT of meaning. [socio cultural] Erlebnis is experienceS [plural] the subject possesses whereas *erfahung* is normally singular [experience OF an event] . I'm not sure how these terms get translated into Russian, but they seem to be linked to *character formation* and also to notions of the *will* as intentional and directed. Greg, this returns us to the conversation on *recognition* and the notion that we must *claim* recognition* [assertive, possessive finding one's *voice* as possessive will] and a more *dialogical notion of *inviting* the other into *voice* [hearing the other into voice]. These alternative notions of *character* formation as *bild* [perspective taking] do seem to be distinct attitudes towards *will* as possessive [something we HAVE] or *will* as cultivated and imagined as developing through mediated events which we *undergo*. My final reflection is on the concept of *zone* of proximal development. Is it possible to reflect on *zone* AS an analogy for *clearing* [heidegger] or *holding environment* [Winnicott]. This *zone* is a *space* [erfahrung] of shared *perspective* taking. THIS is a place or event of reciprocal development. It is not merely *developing* concepts or knowledge but is *developing* ways of life WITHIN the zone of proximal development. Our relation to *possessive will* is *developed* within these *zones* of proximal [intimate] development. Larry On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 5:19 PM, wrote: > Charles, and I. Addition to getting smith via Hegel, pretty certain that > mead would have had fairly direct contact with smith's looking glass theory > of the self (from Theory of MorAl Sentiments) from Charles Horton Cooley > (who is often cited as the origi ator of the looking glass theory of the > self). Is the looking glass theory of the self an example of perspective > taking? > Still no closer to an answer to mikes original question! > Greg > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 30, 2013, at 4:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > > > Yes, Charles, it is well known that Hegel read and admired the work of > the political economists and he also gave prominant place to the Scots in > his History of Philosophy, namely, Reid, Beattie, Oswald and Douglas > Stewart. > > And Mead wrote in a letter that his I/Me dialectic was based on Hegel. > > > > Andy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Andy Blunden* > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > > > > Charles Bazerman wrote: > >> Do any of you scholarly folk also know if there is a line of influence > from the Scottish moralists to Hegel's views on perspective taking? Given > the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment on U.S. education, I wouldn't > be surprised if that work got to Mead as well. Chuck > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Greg Thompson > >> Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:27 pm > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po > russkii > >> To: Mike Cole , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > > >> > >> > >>> Mike, > >>> Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of > Hegel's > >>> social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness > arises > >>> from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here > is > >>> what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: > >>> "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first > >>> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it > must > >>> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to > >>> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon > proceeds to > >>> sublate its own self, for this other is itself." > >>> > >>> This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's > >>> Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In > that > >>> tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the > >>> perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the > perspective > >>> of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the > full > >>> constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully > >>> self-conscious. > >>> > >>> [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration > in > >>> his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, > to > >>> my mind, of little consequence).] > >>> > >>> I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in > Marx's > >>> early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the > relations of > >>> persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the > commodity > >>> fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual > >>> participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich > >>> individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for > >>> accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to > >>> reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just > our > >>> deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, > i.e. > >>> our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. > >>> Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are > "just > >>> like us". > >>> Isn't that perspective taking? > >>> > >>> But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have > made its > >>> way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at > all...). > >>> -greg > >>> p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously > looking > >>> into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. > One of > >>> Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a > >>> minute to XMCA. > >>> > >>> > >>> Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: > >>> > >>> ? < > >>> 179 < > >>> . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has > come > >>> outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its > own > >>> self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has > thereby > >>> sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially > real, > >>> but sees its own self in the other. > >>> > >>> ? < > >>> 180 < > >>> . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that > first > >>> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it > must > >>> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to > >>> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon > proceeds to > >>> sublate its own self, for this other is itself. > >>> > >>> ? < > >>> 181 < > >>> . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense > is at > >>> the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, > >>> through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with > itself > >>> again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it > likewise > >>> gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was > >>> aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the > other and > >>> thus lets the other again go free. > >>> > >>> ? < > >>> 182 < > >>> . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another > >>> self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action > of one > >>> alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double > >>> significance of being at once its own action and the action of that > other > >>> as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, > and > >>> there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first > does > >>> not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic > >>> primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing > independently > >>> for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for > its own > >>> behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. > The > >>> process then is absolutely the double process of both > self-consciousnesses. > >>> Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it > demands > >>> on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only > so > >>> far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be > useless, > >>> because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. > >>> > >>> ? < > >>> 183 < > >>> . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it > is > >>> an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense > that > >>> the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other > >>> regardless of their distinction. > >>> > >>> ? < > >>> 184 < > >>> . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as > the > >>> play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in > consciousness. > >>> What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], > holds > >>> here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness > which > >>> breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this > interchange of > >>> its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. > While > >>> *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being > >>> outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it > exists > >>> for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. > >>> *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another > >>> consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it > cancels > >>> itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the > >>> self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, > >>> through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is > to > >>> itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at > the > >>> same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They > >>> recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues. > >>> My > >>> > >>>> interest at present is on the development of social and relational > >>>> perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of > >>> view > >>> > >>>> (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to > interpersonal > >>>> understanding that we associated with psychological perspective > taking, > >>>> perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy > >>> has to > >>> > >>>> be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS > >>> we often > >>> > >>>> discuss)? > >>>> > >>>> Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! > >>>> mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>>> Mike, > >>>>> I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is > >>> referring to > >>> > >>>>> perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this > >>> question of > >>> > >>>>> perspective taking is also converging with your other question on > >>> *kinds* > >>> > >>>>> or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] > >>>>> > >>>>> I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to > >>> be > >>> > >>>>> central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and > practice > >>>>> This *space* or *zone* of questioning which opens up a clearing > >>> for the > >>> > >>>>> multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its > convergence > >>>>> with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is > explored > >>>> in > >>>> > >>>>> Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. > >>>>> > >>>>> I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring > >>> notions of > >>> > >>>>> *identity* AS KINDS [categories] > >>>>> > >>>>> Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' > >>>>> identified as themselves > >>>>> > >>>>> exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made > >>>> intelligible > >>>> > >>>>> but are not themselves > >>>>> > >>>>> intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or > between > >>>>> minds and bodies regarded > >>>>> > >>>>> as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of > understanding, > >>>> a > >>>> > >>>>> distinction between > >>>>> > >>>>> 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with > >>> which they > >>> > >>>>> are concerned. And in > >>>>> > >>>>> calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that > >>> the > >>> > >>>>> understanding of identities > >>>>> > >>>>> recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be > 'reduced' > >>>>> to the understanding of > >>>>> > >>>>> identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences* > >>> [multiple] AS > >>> > >>>>> RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm > >>> of KINDS > >>> > >>>>> AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to > converge > >>>>> with *culture* and *history*. > >>>>> > >>>>> I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. > >>>>> > >>>>> Larry Purss > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Dear Russian experts on XMCA > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and > >>>>>> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they > >>> are > >>> > >>>>>> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to > >>> wondering how > >>> > >>>>>> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the > >>>> work I > >>>> > >>>>>> am reading, but Mead and > >>>>>> Piaget. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English > >>> for > >>> > >>>> these > >>>> > >>>>>> terms, the cognate > >>>>>> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for > >>> "point of > >>> > >>>>>> view" is literally that, > >>>>>> tochka-point zreniya-seeing, genetive case. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I > >>> know what > >>> > >>>>>> it > >>>>>> is. Any help out there?? > >>>>>> mike > >>>>>> > >>>>>> P > >>>>>> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on > >>>>>> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky > >>>>>> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking. > >>> Perhaps its > >>> > >>>>>> just my bad question! > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > >>> Visiting Assistant Professor > >>> Department of Anthropology > >>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > >>> Brigham Young University > >>> Provo, UT 84602 > >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > From pmocombe@mocombeian.com Sat Nov 30 20:58:12 2013 From: pmocombe@mocombeian.com (Dr. Paul C. Mocombe) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 23:58:12 -0500 Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii Message-ID: <4pt9pw5jejso7phqt08el1e4.1385873892630@email.android.com> I think hegel and marx begins their anaylsis where, as heidegger points out, husserl does...at the level of scientific rationality. ?This they impute to species-being. ?Heidegger's "being and time", I believe is the proper place to start if we want to understand intersubjectivity and empathy. ?The attempt should be to synthesize heideggerian phenomenology with structural Marxism.? Dr. Paul C. Mocombe President The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. www.mocombeian.com? www.readingroomcurriculum.com? -------- Original message -------- From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com Date: 11/30/2013 8:19 PM (GMT-05:00) To: ablunden@mira.net,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii Charles, and I. Addition to getting smith via Hegel, pretty certain that mead would have had fairly direct contact with smith's looking glass theory of the self (from Theory of MorAl Sentiments) from Charles Horton Cooley (who is often cited as the origi ator of the looking glass theory of the self). Is the looking glass theory of the self an example of perspective taking? Still no closer to an answer to mikes original question! Greg Sent from my iPhone On Nov 30, 2013, at 4:14 PM, Andy Blunden wrote: > Yes, Charles, it is well known that Hegel read and admired the work of the political economists and he also gave prominant place to the Scots in his History of Philosophy, namely, Reid, Beattie, Oswald and Douglas Stewart. > And Mead wrote in a letter that his I/Me dialectic was based on Hegel. > > Andy > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > > > Charles Bazerman wrote: >> Do any of you scholarly folk also know if there is a line of influence from the Scottish moralists to Hegel's views on perspective taking? Given the influence of the Scottish Enlightenment on U.S. education, I wouldn't be? surprised if that work got to Mead as well.? Chuck >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Greg Thompson >> Date: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:27 pm >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: intersubjectivity and perspective taking, po russkii >> To: Mike Cole , "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" >> >>? >>> Mike, >>> Not so dumb, I would think, since this is a very central part of Hegel's >>> social ontology of the subject. (Too) Simply put, self-consciousness arises >>> from our awareness that others are subjects just like ourselves. Here is >>> what I take to be Hegel's description of perspective-taking: >>> "It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first >>> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must >>> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to >>> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to >>> sublate its own self, for this other is itself." >>> >>> This is, of course, the second paragraph in the introduction to Hegel's >>> Master/Slave dialectic (all 5 paragraphs of the intro are below). In that >>> tale, perspective-taking fails b.c. although the slave takes the >>> perspective of the master, the master has no reason to take the perspective >>> of the slave. This is imperfect recognition and does not allow for the full >>> constitution (consummation, following Bakhtin) of the subjects as fully >>> self-conscious. >>> >>> [There is good evidence that this was part of G. H. Mead's inspiration in >>> his development of perspective taking (but this is both debatable and, to >>> my mind, of little consequence).] >>> >>> I also wonder if some variant of perspective taking can be found in Marx's >>> early concept of species being, or perhaps in the idea of the relations of >>> persons one to another. It would seem that Marx's writings on the commodity >>> fetish are precisely a problem of perspective taking - the individual >>> participants no longer see that there are others who are full and rich >>> individuals like themselves; instead, other people become tools for >>> accomplishing MY aims. And it is this that communism is supposed to >>> reconcile - bringing all people into a deep appreciation of not just our >>> deep dependence upon one another, but also of our universal kinship, i.e. >>> our "mutuality of being" as Rupert Stasch has so eloquently put it. >>> Mutuality of being requires an understanding that other people are "just >>> like us". >>> Isn't that perspective taking? >>> >>> But I have no clue how or in what linguistic forms this would have made its >>> way from Hegel's and Marx's German to Vygotsky's Russian (if at all...). >>> -greg >>> p.s. psychological anthropologist Doug Hollan has been seriously looking >>> into "empathy" along with fellow psyc anth scholar C. Jason Throop. One of >>> Doug's pieces is listed in the email that just I'll forward in just a >>> minute to XMCA. >>> >>> >>> Full text of paras 179-184 from Phenomenology of Spirit: >>> >>> ? < >>> 179 < >>> . Self-consciousness has before it another self-consciousness; it has come >>> outside itself. This has a double significance. First it has lost its own >>> self, since it finds itself as an *other* being; secondly, it has thereby >>> sublated that other, for it does not regard the other as essentially real, >>> but sees its own self in the other. >>> >>> ? < >>> 180 < >>> . It must cancel this its other. To do so is the sublation of that first >>> double meaning, and is therefore a second double meaning. First, it must >>> set itself to sublate the other independent being, in order thereby to >>> become certain of itself as true being, secondly, it thereupon proceeds to >>> sublate its own self, for this other is itself. >>> >>> ? < >>> 181 < >>> . This sublation in a double sense of its otherness in a double sense is at >>> the same time a return in a double sense into its self. For, firstly, >>> through sublation, it gets back itself, because it becomes one with itself >>> again through the cancelling of *its *otherness; but secondly, it likewise >>> gives otherness back again to the other self-consciousness, for it was >>> aware of being in the other, it cancels this its own being in the other and >>> thus lets the other again go free. >>> >>> ? < >>> 182 < >>> . This process of self-consciousness in relation to another >>> self-consciousness has in this manner been represented as the action of one >>> alone. But this action on the part of the one has itself the double >>> significance of being at once its own action and the action of that other >>> as well. For the other is likewise independent, shut up within itself, and >>> there is nothing in it which is not there through itself. The first does >>> not have the object before it only in the passive form characteristic >>> primarily of the object of desire, but as an object existing independently >>> for itself, over which therefore it has no power to do anything for its own >>> behalf, if that object does not *per se *do what the first does to it. The >>> process then is absolutely the double process of both self-consciousnesses. >>> Each sees the other do the same as itself; each itself does what it demands >>> on the part of the other, and for that reason does what it does, only so >>> far as the other does the same. Action from one side only would be useless, >>> because what is to happen can only be brought about by means of both. >>> >>> ? < >>> 183 < >>> . The action has then a *double entente* not only in the sense that it is >>> an act done to itself as well as to the other, but also in the sense that >>> the act *simpliciter* is the act of the one as well as of the other >>> regardless of their distinction. >>> >>> ? < >>> 184 < >>> . In this movement we see the process repeated which came before us as the >>> play of forces; in the present case, however, it is found in consciousness. >>> What in the former had effect only for us [contemplating experience], holds >>> here for the terms themselves. The middle term is self-consciousness which >>> breaks itself up into the extremes; and each extreme is this interchange of >>> its own determinateness, and complete transition into the opposite. While >>> *qua* consciousness, it no doubt comes outside itself, still, in being >>> outside itself, it is at the same time restrained within itself, it exists >>> for itself, and its self-externalization is for consciousness. >>> *Consciousness *finds that it immediately is and is not another >>> consciousness, as also that this other is for itself only when it cancels >>> itself as existing for itself , and has self-existence only in the >>> self-existence of the other. Each is the mediating term to the other, >>> through which each mediates and unites itself with itself; and each is to >>> itself and to the other an immediate self-existing reality, which, at the >>> same time, exists thus for itself only through this mediation. They >>> recognize themselves as mutually recognizing one another. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, mike cole wrote: >>> >>>??? >>>> Hi Larry-- You are almost certainly way ahead of me on these issues.?????? >>> My >>>??? >>>> interest at present is on the development of social and relational >>>> perspective taking. From, say, a Vygotskian, or Bakhtinian point of?????? >>> view >>>??? >>>> (perspective!) what are the socio-cultural contributions to interpersonal >>>> understanding that we associated with psychological perspective taking, >>>> perhaps just the ability to "stand in someone else's shoes"? Empathy?????? >>> has to >>>??? >>>> be one potential contributor, and...... (in the Russian traditionS?????? >>> we often >>>??? >>>> discuss)? >>>> >>>> Perhaps just a really dumb question. Wouldn't be the first time!! >>>> mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Larry Purss ?????? >>> wrote: >>>??? >>>>> Mike, >>>>> I am wondering if you could expand on your question that is???????? >>> referring to >>>??? >>>>> perspective taking and its possible meanings. I believe this???????? >>> question of >>>??? >>>>> perspective taking is also converging with your other question on???????? >>> *kinds* >>>??? >>>>> or *types* of persons. [personhood like childhood] >>>>> >>>>> I am asking for more clarity on your *bad question* which seems to???????? >>> be >>>??? >>>>> central to the multiple discourses on *sociocultural* theory and practice >>>>> This *space* or *zone* of? questioning which opens up a clearing???????? >>> for the >>>??? >>>>> multiple notions of the concept *intersubjectivity* and its convergence >>>>> with the concept of *perspective-taking* and how this topic is explored >>>> in >>>>????? >>>>> Russian translation is a topic I want to explore further. >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to offer a quote which I found interesting exploring???????? >>> notions of >>>??? >>>>> *identity* AS KINDS [categories] >>>>> >>>>> Oakeshott argues that "This distinction, then, between 'goings-on' >>>>> identified as themselves >>>>> >>>>> exhibitions of intelligence and 'goings-on' which may be made >>>> intelligible >>>>????? >>>>> but are not themselves >>>>> >>>>> intelligent, is not a distinction between mental and physical or between >>>>> minds and bodies regarded >>>>> >>>>> as entities. It is a distinction within the engagement of understanding, >>>> a >>>>????? >>>>> distinction between >>>>> >>>>> 'sciences' (that is, ideal characters) and the identities with???????? >>> which they >>>??? >>>>> are concerned. And in >>>>> >>>>> calling it a categorial distinction what is being asserted is that???????? >>> the >>>??? >>>>> understanding of identities >>>>> >>>>> recognized as themselves exhibitions of intelligence cannot be 'reduced' >>>>> to the understanding of >>>>> >>>>> identities no so recognized", *On Human Conduct*, pp. 14-15. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was intrigued by Oakeshott's understanding of *sciences*???????? >>> [multiple] AS >>>??? >>>>> RESPRESENTING IDEAL KINDS [categorical distinctions]. This realm???????? >>> of KINDS >>>??? >>>>> AS perspective taking moves the question of intersubjectivity to converge >>>>> with *culture* and *history*. >>>>> >>>>> I will pause, but this topic is endlessly fascinating. >>>>> >>>>> Larry Purss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:21 AM, mike cole wrote: >>>>> >>>>>??????? >>>>>> Dear Russian experts on XMCA >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been reading about the development of intersubjectivity and >>>>>> perspective taking, including an article by scholars who say they?????????? >>> are >>>??? >>>>>> working in the "sociocultural perspective." It got me to?????????? >>> wondering how >>>??? >>>>>> Russian scholars discuss these topics. No Russians are cited in the >>>> work I >>>>????? >>>>>> am reading, but Mead and >>>>>> Piaget. >>>>>> >>>>>> When looking at suggested translations into Russian from English?????????? >>> for >>>??? >>>> these >>>>????? >>>>>> terms, the cognate >>>>>> perspectiv seems to appear almost everywhere. The phrase for?????????? >>> "point of >>>??? >>>>>> view" is literally that, >>>>>> tochka-point? zreniya-seeing, genetive case. >>>>>> >>>>>> I figure I am blind to something obvious here, but darned if I?????????? >>> know what >>>??? >>>>>> it >>>>>> is. Any help out there?? >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> P >>>>>> S-- Eugene wrote an interesting article in MCA a while back on >>>>>> intersubjectivity and there are Vygotsky >>>>>> refs but they do not seem to go to the question I am asking.?????????? >>> Perhaps its >>>??? >>>>>> just my bad question! >>> >>> -- >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>> Visiting Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropology >>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower >>> Brigham Young University >>> Provo, UT 84602 >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson >